Female enlightened master Rajini Menon on distinguishing between the inner voice and mind noise

[Piney]

3 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

Nice self-laudatory statements. 

However, till date, I have never come across a spiritually or intellectually insightful post or thread from you. I hope you will prove me wrong in the future though. 

Sherapy and Alchopwn have made some good insightful posts that I found useful. 
 

Thanks for the compliment. I guess your not paying attention. 

[Ajay0]

2 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

How do you determine its permanent?

When nondual perception does not revert back to dualistic perception , it is deemed as permanent.

The reverting back to dualistic perception is due to past karmic imprints or psychological impressions known as Vasana in Hinduism and Sankhara in Buddhism.

These are called 'volitional formations' both because they are formed as a result of volition due to strong desires (craving-aversion) and because they are causes for the arising of future volitional actions.

Living in present moment awareness, total love, virtuous conduct, self-less service are said to destroy karma. 
 

[Rlyeh]

2 minutes ago, Ajay0 said:

When nondual perception does not revert back to dualistic perception , it is deemed as permanent.

Because it hasn't yet doesn't make it permanent.

If I haven't died, am I immortal by your logic?

[Ajay0]

2 hours ago, eight bits said:

It is not obvious that "enlightment" might not consist of the ability to appreciate simultaneously distinctiveness within unity. I am reminded of Jacob Bronowski's description of the aim of science as the effort to see what is the same in things that appear to be different, and the differences in things that appear to be the same. And yes, Bronowski aspired that that would be a permanent goal.

As per Advaita Vedantha (the philosophical branch of Hinduism) in the absolute reality, the unitary consciousness exists as the primary reality. This is what the enlightened sage perceives.

Prajñanam brahma - Brahman is pure consciousness (Aitareya Upanishad 3.3 of the Rig Veda)

Brahman or pure consciousness is stated to be the fundamental substratum of the multiverse and matter, energy, space, time and causation are said to be its varied grosser manifestations.

It is in the relative reality, that this manifest diversity is perceived by the unenlightened dualistic mind . The sayings of the female enlightened sages Anandamayi Ma and Shivayogini Matha will help to clarify this.

Quote

 

“There is One unchanging indivisible Reality which, though unmanifest, reveals Itself in infinite multiplicity and diversity.” ~ Anandamayi Ma

'It is through the multiplicity of name and form that one can arrive at the One. It is from this One that this Infinite Variety has manifested. In the end all return to that effulgent One.'~ Shivayogini Matha (1923-1981)

 

 

Quote

You actually don't realize that that is a singing commercial for the virtue of appreciating duality. Zero and one are names for the complementary opposites that underlie digital computation.

The materialistic universe or relative reality is finite and hence measurable. But the underlying substratum behind it is said to be of a unitary nature.

Edited July 16 by Ajay0

[XenoFish]

6 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

Nice self-laudatory statements. 

However, till date, I have never come across a spiritually or intellectually insightful post or thread from you. I hope you will prove me wrong in the future though. 

Sherapy and Alchopwn have made some good insightful posts that I found useful. 
 

Guess you really haven't been paying attention. 

[lightly]

 

all I can speak from is my experience.  I don’t know if I’m intuitive or delusional, I just seem to more like, suspect,  ONE ness.   (like I’m surrounded by and filled with It.  but it’s still just barely out of my sight)  …but I, like everyone else?  dwell in Multiplicity, not just duality. ???  (see, I don’t even fully understand the terms people use).    I’m not sure it’s important that I understand.    …anyway, Thanks Ajay0 & Everybody…interesting 

Edited July 16 by lightly

[eight bits]

3 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

... is stated to be ... are said to be ... is said to be...

The little red flags that mark where the especially fragrant piles lie in wait for careless feet.

[+Hammerclaw]

6 hours ago, eight bits said:

The little red flags that mark where the especially fragrant piles lie in wait for careless feet.

I'm a b-a-a-ad-d-d influence on you.

[+Sherapy]

7 hours ago, lightly said:

 

all I can speak from is my experience.  I don’t know if I’m intuitive or delusional, I just seem to more like, suspect,  ONE ness.   (like I’m surrounded by and filled with It.  but it’s still just barely out of my sight)  …but I, like everyone else?  dwell in Multiplicity, not just duality. ???  (see, I don’t even fully understand the terms people use).    I’m not sure it’s important that I understand.    …anyway, Thanks Ajay0 & Everybody…interesting 

Lightly, as usual no wiser words have been spoken. I truly don’t think anyone could not have said this better. 

[+Liquid Gardens]

15 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

Even Buddha with his no-mind used to seek alms from house-holders.

I guess I thought that the term 'no-mind' incorporated Buddha's thoughts on desire being the root of suffering.  Not aware of anyone seeking alms, or anything, unless they desired it. 

[XenoFish]

Maybe Buddha's actual goal was to get certain people accustomed too being lower class and impoverished. 

[Piney]

4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Maybe Buddha's actual goal was to get certain people accustomed too being lower class and impoverished. 

One of them it seems. It was also about getting the classes to simplify themselves and treat each other with mutual respect. 

Zen takes it further in some areas.

A warrior monk always comes from the upper caste yet must serve the lower castes and consider himself lower than them.

[+Hammerclaw]

1 hour ago, Piney said:

One of them it seems. It was also about getting the classes to simplify themselves and treat each other with mutual respect. 

Zen takes it further in some areas.

A warrior monk always comes from the upper caste yet must serve the lower castes and consider himself lower than them.

The son and heir of a wealthy aristocrat, he became the poster child of an ascetic movement he dabbled in and co-opted.

[Ajay0]

17 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

Because it hasn't yet doesn't make it permanent.

If I haven't died, am I immortal by your logic?

If the nondual perception does not revert back to dualistic perception, it means that the karmic imprints or psychological impressions are totally eliminated. Reverting back means that the imprints are still present in the unconsious and not cleaned up.

As an analogy, as long as the mirror is unclean due to dust, you are bound to have a distorted reflection. Same with unclean or broken spectacles providing a distorted vision.

[Ajay0]

17 hours ago, eight bits said:

The little red flags that mark where the especially fragrant piles lie in wait for careless feet.

 I have explained the ancient Advaitan philosophical narrative and perspective,which has also been corroborated by testimonies from ancient, medieval and
modern enlightened sages from different cultures, nations and religions.

Sufi sages like Jalaludin Rumi, Meher Baba, Sayyed Tajuddin, Mansur Al Hallaj has also given similar teachings. Same with the likes of Meister Eckhart and Hasidic Judaism with their concept of 'let atar panui mineh' (no place is empty of God).  

Since the nondual perception or satori has not become a permanent experience with me, I cannot give my own personal testimony and would use that of the Advaitan philosophy and that of the sages.
 

[eight bits]

1 hour ago, Ajay0 said:

Since the nondual perception or satori has not become a permanent experience with me, I cannot give my own personal testimony and would use that of the Advaitan philosophy and that of the sages.

Yes, it is obvious that you have had little personal experience to testify about.

Instead, you have faith in what you have read, and that even though it looks like something else to me, you believe it's chocolate pudding.

 

[Ajay0]

8 minutes ago, eight bits said:

Yes, it is obvious that you have had little personal experience to testify about.

Instead, you have faith in what you have read, and that even though it looks like something else to me, you believe it's chocolate pudding.

 

I have had substantial phases of nondual perception or satori, though it is not permanent yet which would mean enlightenment.  The tangible experiences gave me faith in the philosophy and teachings. 

 

[XenoFish]

No point in it really. Enlightenment or whatever. Doesn't help survival. Just gives people with too much time on their hands something to do.

[Rlyeh]

13 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

If the nondual perception does not revert back to dualistic perception, it means that the karmic imprints or psychological impressions are totally eliminated. Reverting back means that the imprints are still present in the unconsious and not cleaned up.

As an analogy, as long as the mirror is unclean due to dust, you are bound to have a distorted reflection. Same with unclean or broken spectacles providing a distorted vision.

How do you determine any of these "karmic imprints"?  Sounds like word salad.

[eight bits]

9 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

I have had substantial phases of nondual perception or satori, though it is not permanent yet which would mean enlightenment.  The tangible experiences gave me faith in the philosophy and teachings. 

Episodic anomalous self-perception has long been recognized as a widespread phenomenon. You might find William James's account of some of the cases he knew about interesting,

https://ccel.org/ccel/james/varieties/varieties.xiv.html

For instance, Tennyson was apparently very talented at what sounds like mantra meditation, and so he could enter into an episode more-or-less at will. But James gives many examples. Here's a brief one:

Quote

“I know ... an officer on our police force who has told me that many times when off duty, and on his way home in the evening, there comes to him such a vivid and vital realization of his oneness with this Infinite Power, and this Spirit of Infinite Peace so takes hold of and so fills him, that it seems as if his feet could hardly keep to the pavement, so buoyant and so exhilarated does he become by reason of this inflowing tide.”

Oh, and as I've written here over the years, I've had an episode, too. (Maybe some minor "echoes," too.)

All of James's examples are episodic; otherwise I think it would be too much like acute schizophrenia (I haven't ever had that condition, but I've been close to someone who had), and I think there would be the danger of being effectively helpless for too long.

Anyway, the points of the post are (1) that you shouldn't assume that you are talking with people who are naive about this stuff (some other members here have also shared their experiences; as I say it's a widespread thing) and (2) I'd be very skeptical of claims that the ancient Indian subcontinent had some monopoly or superior insight into what appears to be a global and perennial human experience.

On a point arising:

5 hours ago, XenoFish said:

No point in it really. Enlightenment or whatever. Doesn't help survival. Just gives people with too much time on their hands something to do.

I am not sure that having had the experience didn't "help survival." As I mentioned to the guru-in-waiting, 24/7 and you might not make 365. But a brief episode (it's hard to say how long, my sense of time was worthless, but I had the advantage of the moon overhead, so I could tell afterward that it had been minutes, not hours)? A change of perspective might be useful - not because the "insights" have validity (I wouldn't know, God doesn't tell me anything) - but how would we know about reality tunnels if we never saw ours from the outside, so to speak?

It's complicated - maybe you're right, but I wouldn't assume it doesn't help.

Edited July 17 by eight bits

[XenoFish]

38 minutes ago, eight bits said:

I am not sure that having had the experience didn't "help survival." As I mentioned to the guru-in-waiting, 24/7 and you might not make 365. But a brief episode (it's hard to say how long, my sense of time was worthless, but I had the advantage of the moon overhead, so I could tell afterward that it had been minutes, not hours)? A change of perspective might be useful - not because the "insights" have validity (I wouldn't know, God doesn't tell me anything) - but how would we know about reality tunnels if we never saw ours from the outside, so to speak?

It's complicated - maybe you're right, but I wouldn't assume it doesn't help.

The problem I typically have revolves around the paradigms these systems have. They all seem to demonize the average person. Seeing them as less than. While the individual can have whatever reality tunnel they wish. I'm just trying to figure out the overall usefulness of "no mind". Along with this weird desire to destroy the ego. 

I guess my problem is that over the years this crap blurs together and reeks of bs.

[Piney]

12 hours ago, Ajay0 said:

Since the nondual perception or satori has not become a permanent experience with me, I cannot give my own personal testimony and would use that of the Advaitan philosophy and that of the sages.
 

So after reading all those "sages", you can't find Daremo/Satori...

You should learn how to work the bulls before trying to teach others how to. 

Or are you one of those lazy Theosophists who just pushes everyone elses crap....

[+Sherapy]

20 hours ago, Piney said:

One of them it seems. It was also about getting the classes to simplify themselves and treat each other with mutual respect. 

Zen takes it further in some areas.

A warrior monk always comes from the upper caste yet must serve the lower castes and consider himself lower than them.

Humility and empathy can be nurtured this way. IMHO

[XenoFish]

42 minutes ago, Piney said:

Daremo/Satori...

Didn't we have a discussion about this a few years ago...?

[Piney]

9 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Didn't we have a discussion about this a few years ago...?

Yep.

Without all the word salad.