SETI found ET, but did not tell you.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

6 hours ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

I don’t think any coverups have taken place, because I don’t believe they could stop it from being leaked.

<smile>  dude!

The Gov could not stop the many military whistleblowers in the Roswell incident from leaking the truth. You're right.

But then all anyone would have to do is say - "LIAR" - then times over,

[Grim Reaper 6]

Just now, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

<smile>  dude!

The Gov could not stop the many military whistleblowers in the Roswell incident from leaking the truth. You're right.

But then all anyone would have to do is say - "LIAR" - then times over,

That was the sign of the times, and today unless someone can prove otherwise it was a weather ballon!

[MrAnderson]

14 minutes ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

<smile>  dude!

The Gov could not stop the many military whistleblowers in the Roswell incident from leaking the truth. You're right.

But then all anyone would have to do is say - "LIAR" - then times over,

We don't really know how many are self censored or how many they decided to speak to but do it anonymously via the internet or by other means.

Whenever a whistleblower tries to tell their stories then there is heavy criticism and most times they will be called unreliable or even liars and dismissed because they don't have proof.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

2 hours ago, Hazzard said:

We have some great examples of that here at UM.

Lies and faked videos is nothing that bothers these people... They will sling literally anything to spread the gospel.

that's funny, I always thought it was Big Gov that was lying.

I can think of many a case where the government is clearly lying. Yet, you all just soldier on.

I just shake my head in amazement

[the13bats]

57 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

That was the sign of the times, and today unless someone can prove otherwise it was a weather ballon!

And of all the true believers braying about Roswell decades later zero proof to support any claims of alien craft or cover-up yet plenty of proof it was just a balloon and radar reflectors

[Grim Reaper 6]

25 minutes ago, the13bats said:

And of all the true believers braying about Roswell decades later zero proof to support any claims of alien craft or cover-up yet plenty of proof it was just a balloon and radar reflectors

Yea Bats 🦇 that certainly sums it up my friend 

 

[Tatetopa]

Been following this anybody? Of course you have to decide if you believe the government or not.

https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/ufo/metal-uap-not-alien/

UAP metal fragment not alien in origin: AARO

• The metal fragment was purportedly from a 1947 UAP crash
• Analysis determined it was likely from a scientific experiment on Earth
• The exact source of the fragment could not be determined

(NewsNation) — The Pentagon’s UFO office has released a report indicating a piece of metal purportedly recovered from a UAP likely originated on Earth.

The sample was analyzed by Oak Ridge National Laboratory (ORNL) in Tennessee, which said that despite claims it was an alloy not found on this planet capable of acting as a terahertz waveguide to generate antigravity properties, it was not extraterrestrial in origin.

The lab could not verify the precise historical origin of the sample, in part because of an unclear chain of custody, but said it is consistent with scientific experiments of the time.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I can tell you that in more modern times (20 years ago), the company I worked for was doing research on Titanium Aluminides for  Wright Patterson Material Command.  Two of our competitors were working on the project on different alloys.  We cast the most promising alloys into fan blades for jet engines and did a year long manufacturing feasibility study.  We had partial success, no major technological breakthrough. It was fragile and too sensitive to casting parameters to produce cheaply enough to justify the weight savings at  that time.  But all in all several usable alloys were produced.  Turns out the Russians were working on the same sort of project. No next generation improved gas turbine engines came out of theirs either.   Dead end for both of us, until somebody figures out how to overcome the manufacturing problems and improve the properties.

In any case, there is a fair possibility some of our  test plates got lost in the scrap heap.  Since it had a high percentage of aluminum, it could not be recycled normally as a titanium alloy.  Imagine if somebody took one home, or one fell out of the truck on the way to a alloy recycling plant,  It would be an amazingly light, very strong, uncorroded, shiny piece of metal unlike any commercial alloy known to the general public.. 

But just maybe that is how some of these stories get started.  Chances are good that nobody at Wright Patterson or at my company will remember the testing  Everybody I worked with on this project is retired, some have passed away.  

It will become mystery metal if any pops up.

[Grey Area]

3 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Yes of course.

But if Alien Albert stood on stage at Madison Square Garden and said "Hi, y'all", you'd see it covered up so fast it would make your head spin

And therein lies the fallacious aspect of this assumed conspiracy.  No one can argue against this because ‘coverup’.

Alien Albert may have done this multiple times, and we just don’t know because of a coverup.

Believers have carte blanch to make whatever claims they like and cry victim when challenged, as we are now seeing.  Skepticism is hand waved away as part of the conspiracy.

[Grey Area]

4 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

This fascinates the heck out of me.

What did you think of the "Go Fast" video? lol That's the pentagon. Also, Alizando, Fravor, Underwood, and Grusch come to mind as whistleblowers, too

I have no idea what to make of it.  I don’t believe it shows what a lot of people think it shows, and certainly the title is very leading.  

I suspect that Grusch is in over his head, has said some stuff that he cannot verify and people like coultheart and others have put him on a very high pedestal.  Grusch has been very quiet, despite stating there was more to come for over a year now.  Again the magic word conspiracy could be inserted there to hand wave it away.

Fravor did not whistleblow, he gave evidence and drew no conclusions, simply stating he did not know what he encountered.  I admire him for being able to do that, given the company he was in, and the expectations of audience.

[the13bats]

1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

Been following this anybody? Of course you have to decide if you believe the government or not.

https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/ufo/metal-uap-not-alien/

UAP metal fragment not alien in origin: AARO

• The metal fragment was purportedly from a 1947 UAP crash
• Analysis determined it was likely from a scientific experiment on Earth
• The exact source of the fragment could not be determined

(NewsNation) — The Pentagon’s UFO office has released a report indicating a piece of metal purportedly recovered from a UAP likely originated on Earth.

The sample was analyzed by Oak Ridge National Laboratory (ORNL) in Tennessee, which said that despite claims it was an alloy not found on this planet capable of acting as a terahertz waveguide to generate antigravity properties, it was not extraterrestrial in origin.

The lab could not verify the precise historical origin of the sample, in part because of an unclear chain of custody, but said it is consistent with scientific experiments of the time.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I can tell you that in more modern times (20 years ago), the company I worked for was doing research on Titanium Aluminides for  Wright Patterson Material Command.  Two of our competitors were working on the project on different alloys.  We cast the most promising alloys into fan blades for jet engines and did a year long manufacturing feasibility study.  We had partial success, no major technological breakthrough. It was fragile and too sensitive to casting parameters to produce cheaply enough to justify the weight savings at  that time.  But all in all several usable alloys were produced.  Turns out the Russians were working on the same sort of project. No next generation improved gas turbine engines came out of theirs either.   Dead end for both of us, until somebody figures out how to overcome the manufacturing problems and improve the properties.

In any case, there is a fair possibility some of our  test plates got lost in the scrap heap.  Since it had a high percentage of aluminum, it could not be recycled normally as a titanium alloy.  Imagine if somebody took one home, or one fell out of the truck on the way to a alloy recycling plant,  It would be an amazingly light, very strong, uncorroded, shiny piece of metal unlike any commercial alloy known to the general public.. 

But just maybe that is how some of these stories get started.  Chances are good that nobody at Wright Patterson or at my company will remember the testing  Everybody I worked with on this project is retired, some have passed away.  

It will become mystery metal if any pops up.

I'm not an expert in metallurgy I'm not an expert on Roswell case but I have researched Roswell more than I should have,

Going back to the start the original reports Marcel picked up what brazel described as fitting weather balloon and radar reflectors not a craft anyone would consider worthy of interstellar flight,
So Marcel distroyed chain of evidence loads it into his car trunk and late one night comes home to put it n his kitchen table telling his kid and wife it's a flying saucer.

Im left at a decision was Marcel a complete utter idiot not caring if the debris was radioactive or hazardous in any way endangering himself and family or do I go with Marcel knew it was harmless weather balloon debris? I'll go with option two.

That where it ended until decades later when Stanton Friedman stirred up an old bored marcell who only then parrots up other tales of memory metal and alien bodies. Even his son then an adult admitted dad never mentioned bodies or the weird metal until years later.
None no not one of the story tellers of bodies or weird metal can offer any proof of claims in some cases like koffman being exposed as making it up by his wife after he passed.

Of course the area is test grounds for weird unusual craft made by humans of course there is the chance of finding weird stuff like Tate worked with.

This reminds me of the fun case of the Bets sphere

Alien balls, not what you might think

The same way Roswell has been made into something it wasn't by believers hoping and embellishing happened on a much smaller scale with the Bets sphere which was well explained yet to this day is still hailed by some as an alien ball.

 

[Grey Area]

6 hours ago, MrAnderson said:

You may want to take a look at these threads and the threads on the forum and you will see what I am saying is true.

MrAnderson, while I do not feel the compulsion to post multiple times a day, I can assure you that after well over a decade of membership to these forums I am very aware of the discourse.

6 hours ago, MrAnderson said:

It's a constant attack against anyone who either has had a sighting or accepts that a number of sightings other observers had are truly unexplained and could be of alien origin.

No!  This is very much a two way street, and I have had users attempt to discredit and belittle me for offering mundane explanations for encounters.  On the whole this entire subject is entirely dogmatic.

You need to make a very very important distinction here as well, claiming something is unexplained is not the issue here, claiming something is aliens, because it is unexplained IS the issue, because it is unexplained, and very likely unexplainable actually becomes the proof, and it’s entirely disingenuous at best and at worst is actually very harmful.

6 hours ago, MrAnderson said:

My assessment is fair. This kind of 'skepticism' is based on constant suspicion and the need to prove others wrong even if they are not.

I think you are categorically wrong here.  A person posts their experience on a public discussion forum.  There is no expectation or requirement for anyone to be in agreement with anything.

There is a PM function, a discussion can be had in private.

The issue is fundamentally a flaw in the user.  Some people do not react well to being challenged, simple as, it becomes personal.

7 hours ago, MrAnderson said:

I don't know the motivation but it looks like some psychological need to be satisfied.

Maybe, but equally what need is being fulfilled by someone claiming a UFO sighting is alien?

7 hours ago, MrAnderson said:

I had a sighting and I just shared it here. I don't expect or demand others to accept it but I know what I saw.

Yet here you are, making your view clear about having been challenged.  You say these words, but I suspect deep down you have made a conclusion and having that challenged is difficult to deal with, even though outwardly you are saying you don’t expect others to accept it.

 

 

[MrAnderson]

1 hour ago, Grey Area said:

MrAnderson, while I do not feel the compulsion to post multiple times a day, I can assure you that after well over a decade of membership to these forums I am very aware of the discourse.

No!  This is very much a two way street, and I have had users attempt to discredit and belittle me for offering mundane explanations for encounters.  On the whole this entire subject is entirely dogmatic.

You need to make a very very important distinction here as well, claiming something is unexplained is not the issue here, claiming something is aliens, because it is unexplained IS the issue, because it is unexplained, and very likely unexplainable actually becomes the proof, and it’s entirely disingenuous at best and at worst is actually very harmful.

I think you are categorically wrong here.  A person posts their experience on a public discussion forum.  There is no expectation or requirement for anyone to be in agreement with anything.

There is a PM function, a discussion can be had in private.

The issue is fundamentally a flaw in the user.  Some people do not react well to being challenged, simple as, it becomes personal.

Maybe, but equally what need is being fulfilled by someone claiming a UFO sighting is alien?

Yet here you are, making your view clear about having been challenged.  You say these words, but I suspect deep down you have made a conclusion and having that challenged is difficult to deal with, even though outwardly you are saying you don’t expect others to accept it.

 

 

I don't mind about challenges like I said earlier. Just read my posts. I am just making an observation of what happens to people who want to share their sightings online and the constant attempts made to discredit them. Something that another poster mentioned and I have agree with. I am sure most posters who have shared their view feel exactly the same.

Just go to the threads on this forum and you will see the personal attacks and insults by only a few posters who call themselves 'skeptics'. They attack posters by calling them spammers, drunks, idiots, uneducated, unintelligent, and whatever else they use. That's not debate but personal attacks coming only from one side. I understand that you said you were attacked for offering reasonable explanations in the past. It could happen but that's not what is the norm here.

There is a huge difference between challenges for your views which is fine and others making personal remarks when they can't challenge you. Because this is what it is after all, inability to challenge someone results in making things personal online. In some words they don't go after the ball but after the player. Classical sign the debate isn't going well (for their side).

 

[Hazzard]

7 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Dude,

if the guy claiming that there are UAP's here in earth, and he showed photos of it, you would call him a liar and the photo fake.

Been there, done that, a dozen times before.

Another perfect example of a poster that has a problem with reading and understanding.

Why would anyone be skeptical to UAPs.. we all know they exist!!??

[Grey Area]

2 hours ago, MrAnderson said:

I don't mind about challenges like I said earlier. Just read my posts. I am just making an observation of what happens to people who want to share their sightings online and the constant attempts made to discredit them. Something that another poster mentioned and I have agree with. I am sure most posters who have shared their view feel exactly the same.

Just go to the threads on this forum and you will see the personal attacks and insults by only a few posters who call themselves 'skeptics'. They attack posters by calling them spammers, drunks, idiots, uneducated, unintelligent, and whatever else they use. That's not debate but personal attacks coming only from one side. I understand that you said you were attacked for offering reasonable explanations in the past. It could happen but that's not what is the norm here.

There is a huge difference between challenges for your views which is fine and others making personal remarks when they can't challenge you. Because this is what it is after all, inability to challenge someone results in making things personal online. In some words they don't go after the ball but after the player. Classical sign the debate isn't going well (for their side).

 

I completely disagree.  There is some snark that goes on and sometimes emotions get high, but this claim about blatant personal attacks and character assassination is rubbish… and let me clarify this position.

I am not saying people don’t get personal on these boards.  But this usually happens following a lot of back and forth.

If you can find any example of any poster making a claim of alien visitation and being instantly shut down and insulted without any requests for corroborating info, please present it, that is not right.  But that is not what happens.

What I see is people who post a sighting or experience, having already reached a conclusion and getting upset when others don’t agree, and yes in some instances poke fun at more outlandish claims.

I know the user you are referring to, who made a similar claim on another thread.  I challenged them then to highlight where skeptics had been out of line, his response was that it had all happened in a different thread.

If there is blatant nastiness going on then it should be called out for certain, but sorry I am going to suggest most believers develop a thicker skin cos life doesn’t get any easier than posting online anonymously.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, unless you are Michio Kaku.

[Trelane]

11 hours ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

Trelane,, you are correct. But that is because when all the military people - say, in the Roswell incident- as one example, 
come out and say "It was a UFO", nobody believes them. and that's how it remains "bottled up"

I know, but that's because that information, or more specifically their statements aren't supported by any data or evidence. Items specific to Roswell have been investigated and come up with nothing.

 

I honestly do wish there was something to it though. I am skeptical yes, but I would be more than happy to say I'm wrong if we could get some definitive proof of extraterrestrial visitation. You and I have gone round and round on this and other items but it just means we have differing opinions based on how we evaluate the available data. No harm no foul.

[MrAnderson]

1 hour ago, Grey Area said:

I completely disagree.  There is some snark that goes on and sometimes emotions get high, but this claim about blatant personal attacks and character assassination is rubbish… and let me clarify this position.

I am not saying people don’t get personal on these boards.  But this usually happens following a lot of back and forth.

If you can find any example of any poster making a claim of alien visitation and being instantly shut down and insulted without any requests for corroborating info, please present it, that is not right.  But that is not what happens.

What I see is people who post a sighting or experience, having already reached a conclusion and getting upset when others don’t agree, and yes in some instances poke fun at more outlandish claims.

I know the user you are referring to, who made a similar claim on another thread.  I challenged them then to highlight where skeptics had been out of line, his response was that it had all happened in a different thread.

If there is blatant nastiness going on then it should be called out for certain, but sorry I am going to suggest most believers develop a thicker skin cos life doesn’t get any easier than posting online anonymously.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, unless you are Michio Kaku.

And I disagree why you on this as I said earlier in this thread twice now. When people post their sightings and experiences are attacked anf insulted. They are not shut down because they are still able to post but they are attacked and with the whole purpose to discredit them. Things are getting personal quickly and it's coming from one side only.

Not having evidence for a claim or statement or sighting is not excuse for being attacked and insulted. Prole can simply state there is no enough evidence or the explanation given are not convincing and finish it there. But it goes beyond this as we all know. You can ask others if you feel it's my own interpretation. Someone brought this up earlier but I can't remember when and where.

I am not a believer in anything. I had a sighting and that was all. There is a difference between seeing and believing. People do get attacked for their opinions and they don't really mind if others disagree with them. I don't care if others believe me or not. It's that simple. The problem can be found elsewhere.

I forgot to comment on the character assassination. That's a tactic since the first days of the UFO phenomenon. Not something new. I am sure others can tell you how true it is.

Edited July 18 by MrAnderson

[Hazzard]

1 hour ago, MrAnderson said:

I am not a believer in anything. I had a sighting and that was all.

You do like to portray yourself as someone with one foot grounded in science (math and physics)... and then maybe one little toe dipped in possibility of the paranormal.

But to most of us here its crystal clear that you are as much a believer in ET visitation as SpamEagle... and that your education is pure fiction. Some sort of silly appeal to authority.

 

...or you are just trolling. #Zetorian3

[MrAnderson]

1 hour ago, Hazzard said:

You do like to portray yourself as someone with one foot grounded in science (math and physics)... and then maybe one little toe dipped in possibility of the paranormal.

But to most of us here its crystal clear that you are as much a believer in ET visitation as SpamEagle... and that your education is pure fiction. Some sort of silly appeal to authority.

 

...or you are just trolling. #Zetorian3

It's a possibility but I don't know otherwise I would have said it openly. You think I will hesitate to say my opinion here? 

You have asked me if you don't remember very recently how do you know that I wasn't lying with respect to my sighting. I said you will never know about it. You either accept it or reject it. Whatever I say it's irrelevant when it comes to you forming an opinion. And you can use the same argument for education.

You see the guy who the thread is referring to is a mathematician! If you didn't know who he was will you believe he was a mathematician? If you didn't know anything about Michio Kaku and listened to him will you ever come to the conclusion he is a theoretical physicist?

[diddyman68]

16 hours ago, zep73 said:

Yeah right. Some nutty mathematician got lost in his own brain, and Youtube goes crazy.

I think the nutty professor believes the signal could be technological but all other possibilities need to be accounted for.

Even though they discovered the signal 20 years ago it's just been the last few years that they have been able to focus more radio telescopes on one particular area of space.so it's not so much a coverup but a wait until the evidence has been collected and examined.

Thats the way i see it anyway.

[MrAnderson]

26 minutes ago, diddyman68 said:

I think the nutty professor believes the signal could be technological but all other possibilities need to be accounted for.

Even though they discovered the signal 20 years ago it's just been the last few years that they have been able to focus more radio telescopes on one particular area of space.so it's not so much a coverup but a wait until the evidence has been collected and examined.

Thats the way i see it anyway.

Logical explanation.

[the13bats]

7 hours ago, Hazzard said:

Another perfect example of a poster that has a problem with reading and understanding.

Why would anyone be skeptical to UAPs.. we all know they exist!!??

It's no use saying UFO UAP exist.

I admit few things irk me but the pompous ego driven way that some high and mighty ( empty handed ) believers have made UFO and now UAP equal aliens is so utterly ridiculous in how very ignorant they are deliberately being does manage to irk me that people would actually fight to look that clueless.

[MrAnderson]

3 minutes ago, the13bats said:

It's no use saying UFO UAP exist.

I admit few things irk me but the pompous ego driven way that some high and mighty ( empty handed ) believers have made UFO and now UAP equal aliens is so utterly ridiculous in how very ignorant they are deliberately being does manage to irk me that people would actually fight to look that clueless.

You don't have to be a believer to make a connection. It's a possibility some of the UFOs could be of alien origin.

 

Take a look at the title of this forum:

Extraterrestrial Life and the UFO Phenomenon

You see how the connection is made?

 

[Hazzard]

2 minutes ago, MrAnderson said:

Take a look at the title of this forum:

Extraterrestrial Life and the UFO Phenomenon

You see how the connection is made?

 

That auto connection some people do is just plain wrong.

UFO has never ever ment extraterrestrial and neither have UAP.

[MrAnderson]

2 minutes ago, Hazzard said:

That auto connection some people do is just plain wrong.

UFO has never ever ment extraterrestrial and neither have UAP.

Not directly but it is connected.

[the13bats]

4 hours ago, Trelane said:

I know, but that's because that information, or more specifically their statements aren't supported by any data or evidence. Items specific to Roswell have been investigated and come up with nothing.

 

I honestly do wish there was something to it though. I am skeptical yes, but I would be more than happy to say I'm wrong if we could get some definitive proof of extraterrestrial visitation. You and I have gone round and round on this and other items but it just means we have differing opinions based on how we evaluate the available data. No harm no foul.

It's always Roswell a big nothing, it wasn't a UFO because to start with nothing was flying what they found was crash debris which the original reports are very clear described weather balloon wreckage and radar targets,

Then we get silly appeal to authority saying something ridiculous like "that is because when all the military people"
" All" so every military person has made the claim that an alleged event where nothing flying was every reported is in fact a UFO?

Roswell is some holy Grail to true believers it's a shame it's a well explained nothing, of course I welcome actual evidence supporting claims that it was more that a balloon and radar targets.