Reminder of what life was like under Donald Trump

[Doc Socks Junior]

14 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Kind of like how CNN, MSNBC, and multiple others are carrying stories about how many "Lies" Trump is telling in his rallies, but not a single bipartisan article on the "Gaffs" Biden is telling?

A false narrative, yet one I've seen oft-repeated 

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/16/politics/fact-check-biden-false-claims-israel-immigration-spending/index.html

There you go, chief. 5 seconds of searching the Internet might have saved you from the falsehood.

I have an odd feeling of deja vu here...

14 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Trump is a liar and a SOB, but it is disturbing how bias many of these "New Outlets" can be. Sure, people say Fox by itself has as many viewers as the others put together. And theyre as bias as the others. But it would be refreshing to see centrist, non-partisan news for a change. 

Well, ideally you're less disturbed now that you have received some empirical evidence that your narrative re: "News Outlets" doesn't reflect reality.

[+Link of Hyrule]

24 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

I copied this quote and did a google search.  No media outlet ever ran a story saying that injecting bleach would "cure" Covid.  You're getting emotional, and either being intentionally hyperbolic, or you're just straight up lying.

I did not ever say that media outlets said that injecting bleach would cure covid. What I said was that news outlets were erroneously reporting that Trump told people to inject bleach to cure covid. Here is just a very VERY short list of headlines running around the time:  

* Coronavirus: Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment (BBC)

* Trump suggests 'injection' of disinfectant to beat coronavirus and 'clean' the lungs (NBC)

* Trump’s Suggestion That Disinfectants Could Be Used to Treat Coronavirus Prompts Aggressive Pushback (NYT)

* ‘Please don’t inject bleach’: Trump’s wild coronavirus claims prompt disbelief (The Guardian)

* Fact check: Trump dangerously suggests sunlight and ingesting disinfectants could help cure coronavirus (CNN)

* Trump Promotes Injecting Bleach (headline has been changed to "what would happen if you injected bleach") (Rolling Stone)

* No, don’t inject disinfectant: Outcry over Trump’s musing (AP News)

As proven beyond doubt, Donald Trump did not encourage anyone to inject bleach, nor did he instruct anyone to do so. Further, if you listen to the speech there is very obviously a question in Trump's voice as he asks an expert. I already admitted it was a dumb question to ask, but it was asked, it was NEVER a suggestion to inject or ingest bleach, and every single one of those articles quoted above is responsible for misrepresenting Trump's words! 

[Doc Socks Junior]

Just to clarify the definition of "suggestion" for those confused.

Oxford states: "an idea or plan put forward for consideration".

As such, there being "very obviously a question in Trump's voice" does not makes his suggestion not a suggestion.

[+Link of Hyrule]

12 minutes ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

Just to clarify the definition of "suggestion" for those confused.

Oxford states: "an idea or plan put forward for consideration".

As such, there being "very obviously a question in Trump's voice" does not makes his suggestion not a suggestion.

Do you think there is a difference between "questioning" and "suggesting"? 

[Doc Socks Junior]

3 minutes ago, Link of Hyrule said:

Do you think there is a difference between "questioning" and "suggesting"? 

It seems you are suggesting there is.

Ironically, enough, that illustrates my point well.

One can suggest things while asking questions.

 

[+Link of Hyrule]

1 minute ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

It seems you are suggesting there is.

Ironically, enough, that illustrates my point well.

One can suggest things while asking questions.

 

I am suggesting there is. Though phrased as a question I wasn't actually asking a question! Ironically, this illustrates my point - if I did not know the answer in advance there is no way I could "suggest" anything, my comment would be a question. A suggestion implies knowledge of the answer. 

[Doc Socks Junior]

1 minute ago, Link of Hyrule said:

I am suggesting there is. Though phrased as a question I wasn't actually asking a question! Ironically, this illustrates my point - if I did not know the answer in advance there is no way I could "suggest" anything, my comment would be a question. A suggestion implies knowledge of the answer. 

No, you were asking a question. That's what the question mark indicates. Hence, the name. Word definitions, now punctuation marks, what is the next lesson for you to learn today?

Ah, looks like it's basic logic. Although you attempt to parrot, you fail in that you're not saying something logically correct. One can certainly suggest something while asking a question that one does not know the answer to.

For instance, I ask the question: "Does alcohol abuse lead to substantially reduced future brain function in the majority of subjects? You know, it sounds pretty interesting to me". What am I suggesting, there? I don't know the answer to that question.

Again, the definition of the word suggestion, Oxford states, is "an idea or plan put forward for consideration". Trump certainly put an idea forth for consideration in the press conference, thus, the verbiage of the headlines in no way misrepresents what Trump said.

Worth noting, is that in a subsequent press conference, Trump denied asking this question of his medical experts. Instead, he said he was asking a "sarcastic question to reporters", although he wasn't. Apparently, even in 2020, Trump was unable to differentiate between various people in the same room. It seems the mainstream media has soft-pedaling the clear signs of cognitive difficulties Don was displaying, even 4 years ago.

 

[psyche101]

4 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Kind of like how CNN, MSNBC, and multiple others are carrying stories about how many "Lies" Trump is telling in his rallies, but not a single bipartisan article on the "Gaffs" Biden is telling? 

Trump is a liar and a SOB, but it is disturbing how bias many of these "New Outlets" can be. Sure, people say Fox by itself has as many viewers as the others put together. And theyre as bias as the others. But it would be refreshing to see centrist, non-partisan news for a change. 

 

 

Well that's not true actually. Biden's "lies" are actually funny. Like the Amtrak stories or his uncle being eaten by cannibals.

Trump's lies are nation damaging like a stolen election. Which led to violence. And cost taxpayers fifty million+. 

I could show you plenty of times the press has made fun of gaffes, claims about civil war cannons and all sort of benign stuff nobody cares about. Excepting of course silly far right wingers who see such ambiguous and unimportant items as nation threatening. 

Trump is human trash who ripped of his own people, uses women as playthings, lies to the people he is supposed to lead and throws people under the bus. You gave him a kind description IMHO. 

Chalk and cheese from the get go isn't it?

Edited July 22 by psyche101

[+Link of Hyrule]

2 hours ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

No, you were asking a question. That's what the question mark indicates. Hence, the name. Word definitions, now punctuation marks, what is the next lesson for you to learn today?

Ah, looks like it's basic logic. Although you attempt to parrot, you fail in that you're not saying something logically correct. One can certainly suggest something while asking a question that one does not know the answer to.

For instance, I ask the question: "Does alcohol abuse lead to substantially reduced future brain function in the majority of subjects? You know, it sounds pretty interesting to me". What am I suggesting, there? I don't know the answer to that question.

Again, the definition of the word suggestion, Oxford states, is "an idea or plan put forward for consideration". Trump certainly put an idea forth for consideration in the press conference, thus, the verbiage of the headlines in no way misrepresents what Trump said.

Worth noting, is that in a subsequent press conference, Trump denied asking this question of his medical experts. Instead, he said he was asking a "sarcastic question to reporters", although he wasn't. Apparently, even in 2020, Trump was unable to differentiate between various people in the same room. It seems the mainstream media has soft-pedaling the clear signs of cognitive difficulties Don was displaying, even 4 years ago.

 

To grab onto your alcohol analogy, it's quite a relatiable one as a former alcoholic (no such thing as "former", I'm just an alcoholic who doesn't drink) who spent a lot of time in therapy to help me get there, I've read a lot about addiction, and alcohol specifically. But let's say I didn't. Let's say I was having this conversation with someone who is a doctor and an expert in addictive drugs and a drug support counselor, and I'm listening to what he or she says with no understanding, and then I ask "do you think that maybe alcohol abuse actually improves brain function" and then he or she says "no, that's not how alcohol abuse works", it would be dishonest to then frame the entire discussion as "Link of Hyrule suggests drinking alcohol improves brain function". It is a complete misrepresentation of my hypothetical question. I wasn't telling people to drink alcohol to improve their brain function, it was a question aimed towards a medical expert in order to get a medical opinion. 

The mainstream media rarely lies outright, if they did it wouldn't be so insidious. Framing it with the headlines they did (see previous post for links) is intentional to craft a narrative. My argument is that had they not done so, even if the studies linked earlier are accurate and (let's take the absolute worst case scenario in all cases) - the sample stated that 1.3% "drank cleaner in any form". Let's assume that every single one of those is bleach, and not simply detergent or something else. Let's also assume that this is a specific increase as a result of Trump's question (and not simply how they would have reacted anyway whether Trump had ever spoken).... so a few assumptions in your favour for the purpose of this argument... even if this small 1.3% is entirely because of that question, would that number be as a high if the media had phrased it as "Trump asks dumb question. Medical Expert immediately corrects him" (or something like that, I'm not a newswriter, I'm sure they could come up with something much more catchy that presents the truth rather than a crafted narrative to get Trump). Or even if they used "questioning" instead of "suggesting" (it would still likely be prejudicial, but far less so than "suggesting", even if the word is technically scraping into truth by a hairsbreadth). 

Having said all this, if we still are unable to agree, then perhaps it's best to get off the merry go round before we get dizzy. 

Edited July 22 by Link of Hyrule

[the13bats]

29 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

 

 

Well that's not true actually. Biden's "lies" are actually funny. Like the Amtrak stories or his uncle being eaten by cannibals.

Trump's lies are nation damaging like a stolen election. Which led to violence. And cost taxpayers fifty million+. 

I could show you plenty of times the press has made fun of gaffes, claims about civil war cannons and all sort of benign stuff nobody cares about. Excepting of course silly far right wingers who see such ambiguous and unimportant items as nation threatening. 

Trump is human trash who ripped of his own people, uses women as playthings, lies to the people he is supposed to lead and throws people under the bus. You gave him a kind description IMHO. 

Chalk and cheese from the get go isn't it?

From this point on any whataboutisum about Biden is rather lame since the man passed the torch
Dolt45 worshippers will have to start up on Harris this Harris that

[Hawken]

11 hours ago, Link of Hyrule said:

It's emblematic of how the media has always fake reported Trump's comments. It happened very very recently with the "bloodbath" comment, with the majority of the mainstream media scaring people into thinking Trump was calling for a literal physical bloodbath - and even here on UM where we get to discuss the context many anti-Trump members right here have agreed that the context of Trump's comment was about the economy, but Trump was talking in code to his extremist followers, who will know the true meaning of the violence he wants to bring..... despite the plain context of his words proving that to be a lie. 

If the media treated Trump like they treat other politicians, most of the scare quotes would never see the light of day. For example, we didn't hear anything about Joe Biden's comment about putting Trump in a bullseye until AFTER Trump was shot at. Do you really think the media would have let it slide for over a week if Trump had called to put Biden in a bullseye? Not just the bleach comment, not just the bloodbath comment.... if the media reported Trump honestly the narrative about him would be very different today. 

Thanks for the chat, and have a good week, Neo  

And I don't recall the media reporting Biden's, You Ain't Black comment to Charlemagne tha God either.

If it's something negative about a democrat politician. they simply won't report it to keep their viewers out of touch.

[lightly]

On 7/19/2024 at 7:36 PM, Link of Hyrule said:

Not relevant to the question of whether Trump instructed people to ingest/inject bleach. 

The mere fact that trump considered the  idea  demonstrates how DUM he is.

[Doc Socks Junior]

7 hours ago, Link of Hyrule said:

To grab onto your alcohol analogy, it's quite a relatiable one as a former alcoholic (no such thing as "former", I'm just an alcoholic who doesn't drink) who spent a lot of time in therapy to help me get there, I've read a lot about addiction, and alcohol specifically. But let's say I didn't. Let's say I was having this conversation with someone who is a doctor and an expert in addictive drugs and a drug support counselor, and I'm listening to what he or she says with no understanding, and then I ask "do you think that maybe alcohol abuse actually improves brain function" and then he or she says "no, that's not how alcohol abuse works", it would be dishonest to then frame the entire discussion as "Link of Hyrule suggests drinking alcohol improves brain function". It is a complete misrepresentation of my hypothetical question. I wasn't telling people to drink alcohol to improve their brain function, it was a question aimed towards a medical expert in order to get a medical opinion. 

This is a wordy way of dodging away from your previous incorrect assertion that one cannot suggest something while asking a question.

Pretty amazing that you can spew so many words, and then completely whiff the landing. If you suggest something stupid and get corrected, the suggestion doesn't magically away. And even so, headlining the vapid suggestion isn't dishonest. That's what happened.

In fact, to move into the real world, given the anti-expert proclivity of your fellow Trump acolytes, correcting him, while necessary, is less important than the dumb things he spouts out.

Regardless, although you ignored it to start, Trump specifically denied aiming his question at a medical expert in order to get an opinion. The awkward moment when the Trump Whisperer's interpretation conflicts with Trump Himself. Of course, Trump was simply lying. But that does raise a good point.

The more accurate media framing may have been:

Trump Suggests Bleach Injections to Combat Coronavirus;  Lies about His Statement in Subsequent Press Conference

7 hours ago, Link of Hyrule said:

The mainstream media rarely lies outright, if they did it wouldn't be so insidious. Framing it with the headlines they did (see previous post for links) is intentional to craft a narrative.

And yet, the headlines are correct.

Suggesting otherwise, as you are, doesn't take into account the definition of words.

7 hours ago, Link of Hyrule said:

My argument is that had they not done so, even if the studies linked earlier are accurate and (let's take the absolute worst case scenario in all cases) - the sample stated that 1.3% "drank cleaner in any form". Let's assume that every single one of those is bleach, and not simply detergent or something else. Let's also assume that this is a specific increase as a result of Trump's question (and not simply how they would have reacted anyway whether Trump had ever spoken).... so a few assumptions in your favour for the purpose of this argument... even if this small 1.3% is entirely because of that question, would that number be as a high if the media had phrased it as "Trump asks dumb question. Medical Expert immediately corrects him" (or something like that, I'm not a newswriter, I'm sure they could come up with something much more catchy that presents the truth rather than a crafted narrative to get Trump).

You mean, perhaps like a headline that states directly not to intake bleach, as multiple of them do?

Your inability to understand word definitions and punctuation marks would indeed mark you as not a newswriter.

7 hours ago, Link of Hyrule said:

Or even if they used "questioning" instead of "suggesting" (it would still likely be prejudicial, but far less so than "suggesting", even if the word is technically scraping into truth by a hairsbreadth). 

It's simply true. 

7 hours ago, Link of Hyrule said:

Having said all this, if we still are unable to agree, then perhaps it's best to get off the merry go round before we get dizzy. 

You can keep pushing your merry-go-round of Trump apologetics, I'm merely correcting your multiple errors.

[+OverSword]

On 7/19/2024 at 4:50 PM, Unusual Tournament said:

The internet is littered with news stories about Trump cultivating Americans to question authority and not openly discussing the benefits of taking the Covid vaccine. Besides I never said Trump was openly campaigning against the vaccine. I said he was wishy washy on it to encourage the conspiracy vote

Trump has retweeted supporters of the conspiracy theory QAnon hundreds of times, raised misleading claims about mail-in voting and election results, and even suggested that injecting disinfectant could help cure the virus. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/12/24/trump-vaccine-misinformation/

So no.

[+OverSword]

On 7/19/2024 at 6:19 PM, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Please supply a source that the Largest Percentage of Americans who died were Obese, can you do it or are you just waging your tongue???

😷

 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/04/health/obesity-covid-death-rate-intl/index.html

You have a very short memory as I'm pretty sure you were the one that first posted this factoid a couple of years ago.  Your hatred of trump clouds your judgement. Take a breath.

Edited July 22 by OverSword

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 hour ago, OverSword said:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/04/health/obesity-covid-death-rate-intl/index.html

You have a very short memory as I'm pretty sure you were the one that first posted this factoid a couple of years ago.  Your hatred of trump clouds your judgement. Take a breath.

I suffered a Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI) in the 1990s, and since then I can't always trust my long term memory. So, if you say I posted a factoid a few years ago I will take your word for it. 

Oh and by the way, I don't hate Trump I just think he is a despicable human being.

Edited July 22 by Grim Reaper 6

[+OverSword]

18 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

I suffered a Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI) in the 1990s, and since then I can't always trust my long term memory. So, if you say I posted a factoid a few years ago I will take your word for it. 

Oh and by the way, I don't hate Trump I just think he is a despicable human being.

And you are correct, he is a class A narcissist. 

[Grim Reaper 6]

3 minutes ago, OverSword said:

And you are correct, he is a class A narcissist. 

Yes, he is a Malignant Narcissist / Pathological Liar and do to this I certainly don't feel he isn't fit for office as the POTUS.

Peace.

Edited July 22 by Grim Reaper 6

[+DieChecker]

15 hours ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

A false narrative, yet one I've seen oft-repeated 

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/16/politics/fact-check-biden-false-claims-israel-immigration-spending/index.html

There you go, chief. 5 seconds of searching the Internet might have saved you from the falsehood.

I have an odd feeling of deja vu here...

Well, ideally you're less disturbed now that you have received some empirical evidence that your narrative re: "News Outlets" doesn't reflect reality.

You know what? Im not such an azz that I cant admit I am wrong.

I went, to try to establish an example, of a pre-debate Biden speech to compare if he gets flak from CNN & MSNBC. I went and looked at the State of the Union speech, which many liberal media outlets raved about. And found, indeed, that CNN specifically, did a lot of fact checking on Biden's numbers and facts. Many of which were out if context, wrong, or exaggerated. So, I am wrong in that the Media can be hard on Biden, and dont always blow unicorn rainbow kisses at him.

That said, there is a bias there, but not to the degree I ranted about. 

[Doc Socks Junior]

48 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

You know what? Im not such an azz that I cant admit I am wrong.

I went, to try to establish an example, of a pre-debate Biden speech to compare if he gets flak from CNN & MSNBC. I went and looked at the State of the Union speech, which many liberal media outlets raved about. And found, indeed, that CNN specifically, did a lot of fact checking on Biden's numbers and facts. Many of which were out if context, wrong, or exaggerated. So, I am wrong in that the Media can be hard on Biden, and dont always blow unicorn rainbow kisses at him.

That said, there is a bias there, but not to the degree I ranted about. 

You know what? Big props, man. I appreciate that.

I think it's correct that media of all types blows a lot of smoke in different ways. Can be pretty hard to dig through it all. More information doesn't necessarily mean better information.

[+Link of Hyrule]

8 hours ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

This is a wordy way of dodging away from your previous incorrect assertion that one cannot suggest something while asking a question.

Pretty amazing that you can spew so many words, and then completely whiff the landing. If you suggest something stupid and get corrected, the suggestion doesn't magically away. And even so, headlining the vapid suggestion isn't dishonest. That's what happened.

In fact, to move into the real world, given the anti-expert proclivity of your fellow Trump acolytes, correcting him, while necessary, is less important than the dumb things he spouts out.

Regardless, although you ignored it to start, Trump specifically denied aiming his question at a medical expert in order to get an opinion. The awkward moment when the Trump Whisperer's interpretation conflicts with Trump Himself. Of course, Trump was simply lying. But that does raise a good point.

The more accurate media framing may have been:

Trump Suggests Bleach Injections to Combat Coronavirus;  Lies about His Statement in Subsequent Press Conference

And yet, the headlines are correct.

Suggesting otherwise, as you are, doesn't take into account the definition of words.

You mean, perhaps like a headline that states directly not to intake bleach, as multiple of them do?

Your inability to understand word definitions and punctuation marks would indeed mark you as not a newswriter.

It's simply true. 

You can keep pushing your merry-go-round of Trump apologetics, I'm merely correcting your multiple errors.

I think we need to agree to disagree, anything I say would simply be a repeat of my previous posts and repeating ourselves is just going to get each other dizzy. Thanks for the chat  

Edited July 22 by Link of Hyrule

[Doc Socks Junior]

11 minutes ago, Link of Hyrule said:

I think we need to agree to disagree, anything I say would simply be a repeat of my previous posts and repeating ourselves is just going to get each other dizzy. Thanks for the chat  

And right on cue, assertions disproven, you duck away.

[+Link of Hyrule]

13 minutes ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

And right on cue, assertions disproven, you duck away.

That is not what is happening, I would literally be repeating myself (I said in my last post that we should get off this merry go round if we can't agree after this). 

 

[Agent0range]

22 hours ago, Link of Hyrule said:

I did not ever say that media outlets said that injecting bleach would cure covid. What I said was that news outlets were erroneously reporting that Trump told people to inject bleach to cure covid. Here is just a very VERY short list of headlines running around the time:  

You literally posed in quotes, "Donald Trump says injecting bleach cures Covid."

[Agent0range]

23 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Kind of like how CNN, MSNBC, and multiple others are carrying stories about how many "Lies" Trump is telling in his rallies, but not a single bipartisan article on the "Gaffs" Biden is telling? 

Trump is a liar and a SOB, but it is disturbing how bias many of these "New Outlets" can be. Sure, people say Fox by itself has as many viewers as the others put together. And theyre as bias as the others. But it would be refreshing to see centrist, non-partisan news for a change. 

I suggest you google Biden CNN fact checks.  It's not pretty.  You only made this comment because you are unaware.