Meditation can be harmful – and can even make mental health problems worse

[Chaldon]

20 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Meditation is a waste of time.

If you are wasting your time by not doing anything at all it is the only way to realize that you actually exist.

[Chaldon]

5 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Yes and I don't consider it meditation. 

The real meditation is the one you don't think of as meditation. Just like the real Buddhahood it has nothing special about it. Basically it's nothing compared even to everyday life, and that's why it helps you go out of your eternal circle: by reducing your ego down to nothing, leaving only the Buddha.

[Chaldon]

5 hours ago, joc said:

Attempt meditation while your family is being raped and killed by merciless marauders of faith.

If you could achieve that you would certainly break the circle of Samsara at once. Becoming a Buddha is about getting rid of anything that binds you, that you feel a part of you. That's all karma, including your family bonds. That's why Buddhahood is so hard: we are all bound by karma, and continue making new karma.

[Bendy Demon]

Myself I don't 'meditate' so much as I try to stay focused on whatever task I am doing. Like this morning I was peeling and slicing some ginger root for the dehydrator and really, all I am able to handle is one task at a time. I focused on the peeling and cutting but more importantly doing it slow and carefully enough as to not accidentally cut myself because I was in a hurry.

I tried meditation the way I read in some books and it really is not possible to shut off your mind..unless you are dead in which case it is rather an automatic process. Sure you can focus on a particular thought as long as it is not boring and mundane enough that it never even required conscious thought and attention to begin with but trying to 'empty' your mind is like trying to empty a waterfall..it just can't and won't happen.

[Bendy Demon]

1 minute ago, Chaldon said:

If you could achieve that you would certainly break the circle of Samsara at once. Becoming a Buddha is about getting rid of anything that binds you, that you feel a part of you. That's all karma, including your family bonds. That's why Buddhahood is so hard: we are all bound by karma, and continue making new karma.

Sitting by while your family is being tortured and killed, for example, doesn't make you a buddha or anything noble, it makes you cold, callous, unfeeling and evil.

[Chaldon]

1 minute ago, Bendy Demon said:

Myself I don't 'meditate' so much as I try to stay focused on whatever task I am doing.

It is meditation. There is a Zen saying: "when washing a cup, think of a cup".

[Chaldon]

3 minutes ago, Bendy Demon said:

Sitting by while your family is being tortured and killed, for example, doesn't make you a buddha or anything noble, it makes you cold, callous, unfeeling and evil.

You got me wrong. Meditation is not about sitting. You can perfectly meditate while running. Meditation is about freeing one's mind of selfishness. If you can help, you must help. That's normal. If you can't, then let it go just as easily.

Edited July 23 by Chaldon

[Bendy Demon]

1 minute ago, Chaldon said:

It is meditation. There is a Zen saying: "when washing a cup, think of a cup".

Hmmm..yes, I suppose it could be called that. I just think of it as "Ok now, just be careful that you don't cut yourself like you did the last time"

[Bendy Demon]

1 minute ago, Chaldon said:

You got me wrong. Meditation is not about sitting. You can perfectly meditate while running. Meditation is about freeing one's mind of selfishness. If you can help, you must help. That's normal. If you can't, then let it go just as easily.

When I said 'sitting' I meant in more teh rhetorical way as in basically watching dully and without any sense of caring or such.

If one of my family members is in that dire of a situation I really couldn't care less about 'mindfulness' as my aim is to end the threat however I can, I will not just 'let it go by'. That could be considered 'selfish' as I would want my family to be safe not just for their sake but mine.

[XenoFish]

22 minutes ago, Chaldon said:

by reducing your ego down to nothing, leaving only the Buddha.

The buddha can go immolate himself.

[XenoFish]

30 minutes ago, Chaldon said:

If you are wasting your time by not doing anything at all it is the only way to realize that you actually exist.

Quite literally everything we do or don't do is just wasting time till we're dead. Of course upon our death nothing will matter anyways. Just like it life. 

[Chaldon]

1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

Quite literally everything we do or don't do is just wasting time till we're dead. Of course upon our death nothing will matter anyways. Just like it life. 

You're an enlightened person.

[XenoFish]

Just now, Chaldon said:

You're an enlightened person.

Sorry I don't have a con game to go with that 'enlightenment'. 

[Chaldon]

1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

Sorry I don't have a con game to go with that 'enlightenment'. 

I was sincere, and meant what I said. You probably mess too much with insincere people.

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, Chaldon said:

You probably mess too much with insincere people.

Yes. 

[Chaldon]

18 minutes ago, Bendy Demon said:

When I said 'sitting' I meant in more teh rhetorical way as in basically watching dully and without any sense of caring or such.

If one of my family members is in that dire of a situation I really couldn't care less about 'mindfulness' as my aim is to end the threat however I can, I will not just 'let it go by'. That could be considered 'selfish' as I would want my family to be safe not just for their sake but mine.

Problem is, in 99.9% of real-life situations when our family members suffer whatever we do does not help them, so all what's we're left with is to accept the inevitable. Or, to be more precise, we can help, and indeed we can do a lot, but before something bad happens. So do care about your family when it's all fine but you already see where it all may go wrong, not when something bad has already happened.

Edited July 23 by Chaldon

[Bendy Demon]

9 minutes ago, Chaldon said:

Problem is, in 99.9% of real-life situations when our family members suffer whatever we do does not help them, so all what's we're left with is to accept the inevitable.

So..let's pose a theoretical situation, say your child is being beaten by a gang of kids and is really getting hurt and on the threshold of being killed. Are you telling me that because you feel your actions won't do anything that you are just going to sit by and let it happen even as your child screams to you for help?

What you appear to be telling me is that you feel that since nothing we do will help then you may as well go back in the house, shut the door and plug your ears until it is over. That is a flimsy, lazy and utterly callous -not to mention morally irresponsible- excuse for trying to justify inaction. It is laziness, mentally, physically and, dare I say, spiritually unethical and immoral.

Even if it was my kitty in danger I would bash anyone trying to hurt her.

 

In short all this mindfulness/spiritual mumbo jumbo should never, EVER be used an an excuse not to do something...

Edited July 23 by Bendy Demon

[Chaldon]

Just now, Bendy Demon said:

So..let's pose a theoretical situation, say your child is being beaten by a gang of kids and is really getting hurt and on the threshold of being killed. Are you telling me that because you feel your actions won't do anything that you are just going to sit by and let it happen even as your child screams to you for help?

What you appear to be telling me is that you feel that since nothing we do will help then you may as well go back in the house, shut the door and plug your ears until it is over. That is a flimsy, lazy and utterly callous -not to mention morally irresponsible- excuse for trying to justify inaction. It is laziness, mentally, physically and, dare I say, spiritually unethical and immoral.

Even if it was my kitty in danger I would bash anyone trying to hurt her.

Once again you got me wrong. You must help but you don't need to feel hatred. Hatred and fear are egoistic, it's the discord breeding discord. Do you really need anger to feel compassion, or compassion still comes first? Does hatred give anything to the ones we love or it is only for ourselves?

[XenoFish]

https://www.tryhealium.com/2022/09/01/gamma-brainwaves/

 

Gamma activity has also been shown to increase during meditation.

When gamma activity is abnormally high, it can lead to:

– Anxiety

– Stress

– Insomnia

– Fatigue

– Headaches

– Irritability

[XenoFish]

3 minutes ago, Chaldon said:

Once again you got me wrong. You must help but you don't need to feel hatred. Hatred and fear are egoistic, it's the discord breeding discord. Do you really need anger to feel compassion, or compassion still comes first? Does hatred give anything to the ones we love or it is only for ourselves?

You can't know pleasure without pain, love without loss, compassion without hatred. Just like the pursuit of happiness is an endless mobius loop upon the hedonic rollercoaster.

[Bendy Demon]

Just now, Chaldon said:

Once again you got me wrong. You must help but you don't need to feel hatred. Hatred and fear are egoistic, it's the discord breeding discord. Do you really need anger to feel compassion, or compassion still comes first? Does hatred give anything to the ones we love or it is only for ourselves?

Who said anything about hatred? Also fear is a perfectly normal response to a situation; try telling a person who is fighting off a home invader or an assailant that being afraid is 'egotistical' and the response you get will not be one of gratitude.

Anger is also a normal emotion; it is how we use that emotion that can be detrimental.

Again all this mindfulness silliness tries to kill off every normal emotion to try and turn us into mindless, unfeeling automatons incapable of doing anything for fear of being labeled 'egotistical' yet even the energy of anger can be channeled to accomplish a worthy goal.

I will live my life as I see fit and you yours and all is well in the universe

 

[Chaldon]

1 minute ago, Bendy Demon said:

Who said anything about hatred? Also fear is a perfectly normal response to a situation; try telling a person who is fighting off a home invader or an assailant that being afraid is 'egotistical' and the response you get will not be one of gratitude.

Anger is also a normal emotion; it is how we use that emotion that can be detrimental.

Again all this mindfulness silliness tries to kill off every normal emotion to try and turn us into mindless, unfeeling automatons incapable of doing anything for fear of being labeled 'egotistical' yet even the energy of anger can be channeled to accomplish a worthy goal.

I will live my life as I see fit and you yours and all is well in the universe

Thanks.

[+Sherapy]

5 hours ago, Bendy Demon said:

Who said anything about hatred? Also fear is a perfectly normal response to a situation; try telling a person who is fighting off a home invader or an assailant that being afraid is 'egotistical' and the response you get will not be one of gratitude.

Anger is also a normal emotion; it is how we use that emotion that can be detrimental.

Again all this mindfulness silliness tries to kill off every normal emotion to try and turn us into mindless, unfeeling automatons incapable of doing anything for fear of being labeled 'egotistical' yet even the energy of anger can be channeled to accomplish a worthy goal.

I will live my life as I see fit and you yours and all is well in the universe

 

I don’t buy into this at all “Gamma waves are also linked to higher levels of consciousness and awareness.” At this time,  I take the position consciousness is limited. 

5 hours ago, XenoFish said:

https://www.tryhealium.com/2022/09/01/gamma-brainwaves/

 

Gamma activity has also been shown to increase during meditation.

When gamma activity is abnormally high, it can lead to:

– Anxiety

– Stress

– Insomnia

– Fatigue

– Headaches

– Irritability

 

[+joc]

8 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

I don’t buy into this at all “Gamma waves are also linked to higher levels of consciousness and awareness.” At this time,  I take the position consciousness is limited. 

 

I don't buy any of that mumbo jumbo about different brain waves, especially the part that says you can control them.  And mostly, I don't buy any of it because of the author, probably a really nice person but she is a marketing guru, not an expert on brain waves.  She is very good at marketing a story line.  That's her specialty and you can see it in that piece.  Slick Marketing sells stuff.  That is true.  And, that's why I don't buy it.  How can anyone say that you can control a certain brain wave by doing a certain thing?  We know how to control certain parts of our brain, things to do with emotional responses etc...but to narrow it down to ...do this to improve your Gamma Wave activity is kind of nonsensical I think.

[Ajay0]

16 hours ago, Piney said:

Sooooo......meditation teachers need to be wealthy to be qualified? 

Meditation teachers need only training and experience to be qualified, but to be seen as role models in society they need to be wealthy, imho. 

These days, you can see many superficial but affluent playboys and farting, snobbish billionaires born with a silver spoon hogging the headlines in most newspapers in the west while the common man is wilfully ignored. This unfortunately creates a perception in society that being rich and having a haughty attitude is cool, and everything else is uncool.

I remember meeting with a young person in an another region and whom I became friends with. During conversation he stated how proud he was of his wealthy uncle who was a successful businessman and a drug mafia don as well and kept eulogising him as a 'great' man. 

I have heard a successful and talented doctor ruing his high workload, lack of personal time along with low pay, and stating that he wished he joined some other high paying profession instead.

So I would say it is important that we create role models in society who render tangible service and are well-paid for it as well.