Literal Hellfire Torment--Not a Bible Teaching

[Alter2Ego]

The teaching of literal hellfire torment is commonplace in Christendom and non-Christian religions.  This teaching defames the Creator and portrays him as a sadist who tortures people in literal flames of fire for all eternity—as punishment for wrongdoings committed during the relatively brief human lifespan.

 

Hellfire believers insist that the wicked will literally experience pain while burning in literal flames of fire—after they have died.  So that brings us to the questions below.

 

 

DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:

1.  Are there are scriptures in the Judeo-Christian Bible to support the teaching of literal hellfire torment?  If you believe that to be the case, please quote up to three (3) scriptures and include Bible book, chapter, and verse, along with a brief explanation for why you believe the verses are talking literal hellfire torment.

 

2.  According to those who believe in literal hellfire torment, only wicked people will wind up in hell.  Is that what you believe?

 

3.  Does the Bible teach that humans have an immortal soul that survives the death of the person so that the soul can then be burned in eternal flames? If so, please present scriptures to that effect to prove it (no more than 3 scriptures at a time, please).  Follow the steps indicated at Question #1.

 

4.   When people are being tortured in hellfire, wouldn't they have to KNOW or be conscious/aware of the fact that they are being burned? I mean to say, what's the point of punishing people in a burning hellfire if they aren't even aware?

 

5.  Those who believe in literal eternal torment say that the person's soul is being burned forever. What is the soul?  Are animals souls also, or does the term "soul" apply only to humans?

 

Edited August 4 by Alter2Ego

[jmccr8]

3 hours ago, Alter2Ego said:

2.  According to those who believe in literal hellfire torment, only wicked people will wind up in hell.  Is that what you believe

HI Alter

Actually there is no requisite to be wicked to go to hell as it is for those that do not accept Jesus as their savior and according to scripture all mankind is born in sin. You are born with a go to hell card do not pass go or collect $200, theoretically Jesus is the get out of hell card. 

I don't believe any of it so hell doesn't scare me it's just a tool to fool with. 

[Piney]

Just now, jmccr8 said:

HI Alter

Actually there is no requisite to be wicked to go to hell as it is for those that do not accept Jesus as their savior and according to scripture all mankind is born in sin. You are born with a go to hell card do not pass go or collect $200, theoretically Jesus is the get out of hell card. 

I don't believe any of it so hell doesn't scare me it's just a tool to fool with. 

Disengage!!!!

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

The way I understand it, is that the only way to the Christian Heaven is through Jesus. 
Jesus popped down into the Sheol and picked up all the righteous there during his Three Days dead, and now the only way to Heaven is by following Jesus. The Fiery Pits though, according to John is only for those who in the final battle sided against God and with the Archenemy.  I think the closest analogy I can think of is how Dante put the Atheists and pre-Christ righteous in the “not a punishment, but not a reward” planes of Oblivion/Purgatory in the Divine Comedy - the good non-Believers will not be punished, but also not rewarded they will simply “be”. 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Basically - you’re post-death experience is like being on holiday. 
If you’re good by Christ’s standards, it’s all silver beaches, unlimited libraries and beatific skies. 
If you’re good but not Christ-like, it’s like being on holiday with Germans. 
If you’re not good, it’s like being on holiday with Americans. 

[cormac mac airt]

30 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Basically - you’re post-death experience is like being on holiday. 
If you’re good by Christ’s standards, it’s all silver beaches, unlimited libraries and beatific skies. 
If you’re good but not Christ-like, it’s like being on holiday with Germans. 
If you’re not good, it’s like being on holiday with Americans. 

Except that it’s all BS when the Bible itself says NOBODY is going to Heaven until after the Second Coming. And since Revelation never happened as the Bible laid out then from a Christian perspective we’re all screwed. How’s that for Christianity’s “righteousness”? 
 

cormac

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

23 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Except that it’s all BS when the Bible itself says NOBODY is going to Heaven until after the Second Coming. And since Revelation never happened as the Bible laid out then from a Christian perspective we’re all screwed. How’s that for Christianity’s “righteousness”? 
 

cormac

It’s very equal -cwe’re all equally buggahed.

[Alter2Ego]

On 8/4/2024 at 1:37 PM, jmccr8 said:

HI Alter

Actually there is no requisite to be wicked to go to hell as it is for those that do not accept Jesus as their savior and according to scripture all mankind is born in sin. You are born with a go to hell card do not pass go or collect $200, theoretically Jesus is the get out of hell card. 

I don't believe any of it so hell doesn't scare me it's just a tool to fool with. 

jmccr8:

The Bible makes a distinction between people who are sinful due to imperfection and those who are wicked.  Notice one such scripture below.

Psalm 37:10

"Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there."

[jmccr8]

1 minute ago, Alter2Ego said:

jmccr8:

The Bible makes a distinction between people who are sinful due to imperfection and those who are wicked.  Notice one such scripture below.

Psalm 37:10

"Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there."

HI Alter

A frivolous distinction, and doesn't address that the only way god can look at man is through the blood of his son. The Bible says all men are born in sin and have to repent or suffer damnation. 

Personally I don't have a problem with answering for things I've done but telling me I am a sinner because of what Adam did thousands of years ago doesn't wash with me. 

[Alter2Ego]

14 minutes ago, Alter2Ego said:

jmccr8:

The Bible makes a distinction between people who are sinful due to imperfection and those who are wicked.  Notice one such scripture below.

Psalm 37:10

"Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there."

  

7 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

HI Alter

A frivolous distinction, and doesn't address that the only way god can look at man is through the blood of his son. The Bible says all men are born in sin and have to repent or suffer damnation. 

Personally I don't have a problem with answering for things I've done but telling me I am a sinner because of what Adam did thousands of years ago doesn't wash with me. 

jmccr8:

The fact that the Bible itself says the wicked will be no more indicates it's not a "frivolous" distinction. The Bible offers hope for people that God does not consider to be wicked.

Edited August 7 by Alter2Ego

[Alter2Ego]

8 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

HI Alter

A frivolous distinction, and doesn't address that the only way god can look at man is through the blood of his son. The Bible says all men are born in sin and have to repent or suffer damnation. 

Personally I don't have a problem with answering for things I've done but telling me I am a sinner because of what Adam did thousands of years ago doesn't wash with me. 

jmccr8:

You were born a sinner because of what Adam did thousands of years ago, whether you like it or not.  Here's why:  When Adam sinned, he lost perfection and slowly began to die.  He did not yet have children prior to his sin, so all he could pass on to his future offspring (all of humanity) was imperfection, sin, and death.

 

Romans 5:12

That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned—.

 

 

[jmccr8]

3 minutes ago, Alter2Ego said:

jmccr8:

You were born a sinner because of what Adam did thousands of years ago, whether you like it or not.  Here's why:  When Adam sinned, he lost perfection and slowly began to die.  He did not yet have children prior to his sin, so all he could pass on to his future offspring (all of humanity) was imperfection, sin, and death.

 

Romans 5:12

That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned—.

 

 

HI Alter

You do know that it's all BS to start with. I don't belong to a religion and don't cherry pick bits and pieces to make my own. 

I get up every morning put my work clothes on and do my due. I don't ask anyone to carry me through life's challenges and face them by myself. 

[+Hammerclaw]

• Gehennah, γέεννα, (12)
  • Matt. 5:22, “But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.”
  • Matt. 5:29, “If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.”
  • Matt. 5:30, “And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.”
  • Matt. 10:28, “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.”
  • Matt. 18:9, “And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.”
  • Matt. 23:15, “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.”
  • Matt. 23:33, “You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?”
  • Mark 9:43, “And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.”
  • Mark 9:45, “And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell.”
  • Mark 9:47, “And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell,”
  • Luke 12:5, “But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him!”
  • James 3:6, “And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell.”
• Hades, αδης (11)
  • Matt. 11:23, “And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You will be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.”
  • Matt. 16:18, “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.”
  • Luke 10:15, “And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You shall be brought down to Hades.”
  • Luke 16:23, “and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.”
  • Acts 2:27, “For you will not abandon my soul to Hades, or let your Holy One see corruption.”
  • Acts 2:31, “he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.”
  • 1 Cor. 15:55, “O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?”
  • Rev. 1:18, “and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.”
  • Rev. 6:8, “And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider’s name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth.”
  • Rev. 20:13, “And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.”
  • Rev. 20:14, “Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.”
  • wikipedia

[XenoFish]

20 minutes ago, Alter2Ego said:

You were born a sinner because of what Adam did thousands of years ago, whether you like it or not.  Here's why:  When Adam sinned, he lost perfection and slowly began to die.  He did not yet have children prior to his sin, so all he could pass on to his future offspring (all of humanity) was imperfection, sin, and death.

This right here is all about luring people in with an imaginary problem. Then offering an imaginary solution.

It also breeds an inferiority complex. Because no matter what you'll never be good enough and "salvation" can be stripped away because of any transgression.

Edited August 7 by XenoFish

[+Link of Hyrule]

Hi Alter2Ego, I haven't been a Christian for nearly 10 years now, but I can try and answer from a very biblical perspective to help answer your questions: 

  

On 8/5/2024 at 3:10 AM, Alter2Ego said:

DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:

1.  Are there are scriptures in the Judeo-Christian Bible to support the teaching of literal hellfire torment?  If you believe that to be the case, please quote up to three (3) scriptures and include Bible book, chapter, and verse, along with a brief explanation for why you believe the verses are talking literal hellfire torment.

Yes, there are. However, they are not alone in scripture, and there is scripture that can also be interpreted other ways. For example, Jesus refers to a "blazing furnace" where there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 13:42). But Jesus also compares the Kingdom of Heaven to a feast held by a rich ruler but all his friends make up excuses not to attend, so the rich man casts them out in the darkness, where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 22:42) - the parallel account in Luke's gospel is cleaner and easier to understanding, going as far as saying "not one of those who were invited will get a taste of my banquet" (Luke 14:24), but it doesn't include the phrase "weeping and gnashing of teeth", which is a pretty cool repetition of phrase from Matthew 13 to Matthew 22. 

Both sets of imagery cannot be true - it cannot be a fiery furnace and a place of cold and dark, and I believe neither is true. It is an analogy to compare. Ultimately I don't think anyone can know for certain what hell is like (or heaven), but from a Christian theological perspective what is important is that 1- God will be in heaven, and 2- God will not be in hell. As a Christian, you'd much rather want to live with God than without. But what is the nature of this place? Arguably the Bible's best argument is that of annihilationism - the idea that those who do not make it to heaven simply cease to exist, to the point that even their memory dies in the minds of everyone in heaven (Ecclesiastes 9:5), but perhaps the most clear and obvious Bible passage to me is 2 Thessalonians 1:9 - They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might! Referring to "everlasting destruction" as a "punishment" sounds less painful than "everlasting torture" to me. 

In short, my argument is that the biblical hell is the annihilation of spirit, total destruction to the point of non-existence - basically what many naturalist atheists believe will happen when they die, they just become worm food and cease to exist, the punishment of everlasting destruction (total non-existence). 

 

On 8/5/2024 at 3:10 AM, Alter2Ego said:

2.  According to those who believe in literal hellfire torment, only wicked people will wind up in hell.  Is that what you believe?

No. I'm not a Christian, I don't believe in hell or heaven. But even when I was a Christian I did not believe in a fiery torment in hell. I do not think the Bible supports this. 

 

On 8/5/2024 at 3:10 AM, Alter2Ego said:

3.  Does the Bible teach that humans have an immortal soul that survives the death of the person so that the soul can then be burned in eternal flames? If so, please present scriptures to that effect to prove it (no more than 3 scriptures at a time, please).  Follow the steps indicated at Question #1.

Good question. It's been years since I've studied the Bible, the passages I quoted above were from memory (I had to look up my old Bible to find the exact passages, but I used to read the Bible every day so I think I know it pretty well). The Bible does make clear that there is a punishment for sin, and the punishment for sin is death (Romans 6:23), since I've already agreed in #1 that I don't think eternal torment is biblical the question is whether the soul simply dies and is forgotten, or whether the soul is awakened in order to face death and then be destroyed. Off the top of my head I can perhaps make an argument for both, but I don't think it really matters - ultimately, the end result is annihilation of the soul for those who are not Christian, according to the Bible. 

 

On 8/5/2024 at 3:10 AM, Alter2Ego said:

4.   When people are being tortured in hellfire, wouldn't they have to KNOW or be conscious/aware of the fact that they are being burned? I mean to say, what's the point of punishing people in a burning hellfire if they aren't even aware?

Eternal hellfire is not biblical. I could perhaps make an argument for temporary hellfire, but the exact nature of this torment is not possible to quantify as the Bible says nothing about it. But I cannot justify an eternal hellfire. 

 

On 8/5/2024 at 3:10 AM, Alter2Ego said:

5.  Those who believe in literal eternal torment say that the person's soul is being burned forever. What is the soul?  Are animals souls also, or does the term "soul" apply only to humans?

 

From a biblical perspective, only humans have the divine spark of god, as only humans were made in the image of God (Genesis 1:27). There's a bit of debate as to what "the image of God" means, but that's really another discussion altogether. But to try and give an idea, I quoted Matthew 22 earlier, to extend on that, the Pharisees ask Jesus to whom they should pay taxes (they were hoping to trap him in his words, either he says give it to Caesar, in which case they accuse him of stealing from God, or he says God, in which case they accuse him of breaking the law), so instead he says "Give me a coin, whose inscription do you see on it - whose IMAGE is on it", and they say "Caesar's", Jesus then hits them with "give to Caesar what is Caesar and give to God what is God's" (Matthew 22:15-22). If we take this idea of an "image" on the coin, it's simply a mark of ownership - just as the coin was identified as belonging to Caesar because of the image, so too are humans the property of God, bearing his "image" as a mark of ownership. I prefer this imagery as it helps us understand what the imagery means from a theological perspective. 

I suspect this theology would need a revamp if another species on earth ever developed sentience and could choose to accept or reject Jesus, so too if aliens ever arrived and missionaries decide there's a whole new area of proselytising they can do. But until then, humans are the only ones made in the image of God, from a biblical perspective. 

Well, that's those 5 questions answered. It's been a while since I've delved into my Bible, thanks for giving me the opportunity to share  

Edited August 7 by Link of Hyrule

[zep73]

The only hell I can imagine is worshipping God for eternity. Now that's torment!

[MrsGently]

The only hell I can imagine is being constantly surrounded by pompous idiots... oh wait that's life

lol

Hell is an invention from the late middle-ages when life wasn't so bad anymore for too many that "next life will be better" was enough to keep them in check. So they invented eternal torture for enjoying too much liberty

[Abramelin]

On 8/7/2024 at 7:07 AM, zep73 said:

The only hell I can imagine is worshipping God for eternity. Now that's torment!

Enjoy !

[Guyver]

On 8/4/2024 at 10:10 AM, Alter2Ego said:

The teaching of literal hellfire torment is commonplace in Christendom and non-Christian religions.  This teaching defames the Creator and portrays him as a sadist who tortures people in literal flames of fire for all eternity—as punishment for wrongdoings committed during the relatively brief human lifespan.

Hellfire believers insist that the wicked will literally experience pain while burning in literal flames of fire—after they have died.  So that brings us to the questions below.

 

 

DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:

1.  Are there are scriptures in the Judeo-Christian Bible to support the teaching of literal hellfire torment?  If you believe that to be the case, please quote up to three (3) scriptures and include Bible book, chapter, and verse, along with a brief explanation for why you believe the verses are talking literal hellfire torment.

 

 

The answer to your question is yes.....there are scriptures in the bible which support the notion that God will punish people forever in flames.  That's one of the reasons why I have a problem with belief in the God of the Bible.  

Question - do you believe in Jesus and the words recorded in the Bible attributed to Jesus?

Luke 16 - The parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus

 

“There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and [h]fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with [i]the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’'

[Guyver]

On 8/6/2024 at 6:06 PM, Alter2Ego said:

 

You were born a sinner because of what Adam did thousands of years ago, whether you like it or not.  Here's why:  When Adam sinned, he lost perfection and slowly began to die.  He did not yet have children prior to his sin, so all he could pass on to his future offspring (all of humanity) was imperfection, sin, and death.

So, you think it's ok for an innocent person to be punished for another persons sins?  The sins of the fathers are passed to the children?  Does it work in reverse as well?  No.....OK....so, it's just that the sins of the father are visited upon the children.  

And you find that just, acceptable, and something that God Jehovah does?

So, if you murder someone in cold blood, instead of prosecuting you......the courts should go after your children, and punish them for crimes you have committed?

[Opus Magnus]

Hammerclaw already did the work for me:

On 8/6/2024 at 7:19 PM, Hammerclaw said:

• Gehennah, γέεννα, (12)
  • Matt. 5:22, “But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.”
  • Matt. 5:29, “If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.”
  • Matt. 5:30, “And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.”
  • Matt. 10:28, “And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.”
  • Matt. 18:9, “And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.”
  • Matt. 23:15, “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.”
  • Matt. 23:33, “You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?”
  • Mark 9:43, “And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.”
  • Mark 9:45, “And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell.”
  • Mark 9:47, “And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell,”
  • Luke 12:5, “But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him!”
  • James 3:6, “And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell.”
• Hades, αδης (11)
  • Matt. 11:23, “And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You will be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.”
  • Matt. 16:18, “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.”
  • Luke 10:15, “And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You shall be brought down to Hades.”
  • Luke 16:23, “and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.”
  • Acts 2:27, “For you will not abandon my soul to Hades, or let your Holy One see corruption.”
  • Acts 2:31, “he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.”
  • 1 Cor. 15:55, “O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?”
  • Rev. 1:18, “and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.”
  • Rev. 6:8, “And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider’s name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth.”
  • Rev. 20:13, “And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.”
  • Rev. 20:14, “Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.”
  • wikipedia

 

On 8/4/2024 at 3:14 PM, cormac mac airt said:

Except that it’s all BS when the Bible itself says NOBODY is going to Heaven until after the Second Coming. And since Revelation never happened as the Bible laid out then from a Christian perspective we’re all screwed. How’s that for Christianity’s “righteousness”? 
 

cormac

What Cormac said is what I believe.

One of my favorite stories in the Bible is when King Saul visits a witch from Endor to practice necromancy and summon the spirit of the prophet Samuel from Hades (King James Version, 1611/1987, 1 Samuel 28:13-14).  This whole chapter gives one of the only visions of the afterlife in the Old Testament.  God prepared a place for his prophet in Hades where he could rest in peace until the resurrection.  I also like this chapter because it gives a role to the witch that is like Jesus Christ, that they can raise the dead. 

I see no difference between the descriptions of the afterlife in paganism as those described in the Bible.  Pagan myths are likely describing the same place in more detail, but accepting the Messiah, Jesus Christ, Lord of Compassion, God of gods and Savior is still necessary to save your soul from absolute destruction.  In the Gospel Christ describes the destruction as not explicitly reserved to extreme sinners; but for the naive, foolish and unknowing (Luke 13:1-5):

13 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.

2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?

3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?

5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

I am not afraid of Hell, because Hell is conquered.  There are more threats that Christ explains like Outer Darkness.  To reject the pagan wisdom of Hell, Hades and reincarnation would be to call your brother a fool and endanger your own soul to hellfire I think (Matthew 5:22).

King James Version. (1987). Public domain. (Original work 1611). https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Samuel 28&version=KJV

[+Hammerclaw]

4 hours ago, Opus Magnus said:

Hammerclaw already did the work for me:

 

What Cormac said is what I believe.

One of my favorite stories in the Bible is when King Saul visits a witch from Endor to practice necromancy and summon the spirit of the prophet Samuel from Hades (King James Version, 1611/1987, 1 Samuel 28:13-14).  This whole chapter gives one of the only visions of the afterlife in the Old Testament.  God prepared a place for his prophet in Hades where he could rest in peace until the resurrection.  I also like this chapter because it gives a role to the witch that is like Jesus Christ, that they can raise the dead. 

I see no difference between the descriptions of the afterlife in paganism as those described in the Bible.  Pagan myths are likely describing the same place in more detail, but accepting the Messiah, Jesus Christ, Lord of Compassion, God of gods and Savior is still necessary to save your soul from absolute destruction.  In the Gospel Christ describes the destruction as not explicitly reserved to extreme sinners; but for the naive, foolish and unknowing (Luke 13:1-5):

13 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.

2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?

3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?

5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

I am not afraid of Hell, because Hell is conquered.  There are more threats that Christ explains like Outer Darkness.  To reject the pagan wisdom of Hell, Hades and reincarnation would be to call your brother a fool and endanger your own soul to hellfire I think (Matthew 5:22).

King James Version. (1987). Public domain. (Original work 1611). https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 Samuel 28&version=KJV

There was usually no happy afterlife in non-Abrahamic religions...at least nothing to aspire to, not even in Judaism. Polytheistic Gods were propitiatory deities, Gods for the living, for who's favor in life, offerings and prayers were made. 

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[Opus Magnus]

23 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

There was usually no happy afterlife in non-Abrahamic religions...at least nothing to aspire to, not even in Judaism. Polytheistic Gods were propitiatory deities, Gods for the living, for who's favor in life, offerings and prayers were made. 

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Why should that change except through the power of a demi-god?

[Coil]

Alter2Ego

 

Everything is arranged correctly by God. On earth, people are put in places of imprisonment for crimes, but how to re-educate those who have not repented? There must be a place after death.

The function of hell is to detain the sinner, re-educate him and not let him fall beyond the limits of the earth's development into space with his burdened subtle body, since each burden has its own hellish world. Hell detains and again directs a person to birth on earth so that God knows that people are sinful and gives them a chance to be born again on earth.

A person is not in hell forever, there are simply no time landmarks on the heavy levels of hell, there is no change of weather, day and night, space, stars and the sun are not visible, so a person can stay there for several months, and several years will pass on earth. This is a two-dimensional world and time flows faster there, although imperceptibly to others.

In the future, hellish worlds will be transformed by people into light worlds when people stop sinning.

Spatially, hellish worlds are located inside the planet. But it happens that even the super-heavy core of the planet cannot hold people, then they can fall to the bottom of our galaxy or suffer a "second death":

Spoiler

A silence falls upon the spirit’s heights,
From the veiled sanctuary the God retires,
Empty and cold is the chamber of the Bride;
The golden Nimbus now is seen no more,
No longer burns the white spiritual ray
And hushed for ever is the secret Voice.
Then by the Angel of the Vigil Tower
A name is struck from the recording book;
A flame that sang in Heaven sinks quenched and mute;
In ruin ends the epic of a soul.
This is the tragedy of the inner death
When forfeited is the divine element
And only a mind and body live to die.

You can find a modern description of the levels of hell on page 179 of the book at the link below. If you come across unfamiliar words, there is a dictionary of unfamiliar words at the bottom of the book.

https://archive.org/download/daniel-andreev-the-rose-of-the-world/Daniel-Andreev-The-Rose-of-the-World.pdf

 

Edited August 8 by Coil

[jmccr8]

6 minutes ago, Coil said:

Alter2Ego

 

Everything is arranged correctly by God. On earth, people are put in places of imprisonment for crimes, but how to re-educate those who have not repented? There must be a place after death.

The function of hell is to detain the sinner, re-educate him and not let him fall beyond the limits of the earth's development into space with his burdened subtle body, since each burden has its own hellish world. Hell detains and again directs a person to birth on earth so that God knows that people are sinful and gives them a chance to be born again on earth.
A person is not in hell forever, there are simply no time landmarks, no change of weather, day and night, space, stars and the sun are not visible, so a person can stay there for several months, while several years will pass on earth. This is a two-dimensional world and time flows faster there, although imperceptibly to others.

Spatially, hellish worlds are located inside the planet. But it happens that even the super-heavy core of the planet cannot hold people, then they can fall to the bottom of our galaxy or suffer a "second death":

  Hide contents

A silence falls upon the spirit’s heights,
From the veiled sanctuary the God retires,
Empty and cold is the chamber of the Bride;
The golden Nimbus now is seen no more,
No longer burns the white spiritual ray
And hushed for ever is the secret Voice.
Then by the Angel of the Vigil Tower
A name is struck from the recording book;
A flame that sang in Heaven sinks quenched and mute;
In ruin ends the epic of a soul.
This is the tragedy of the inner death
When forfeited is the divine element
And only a mind and body live to die.

You can find a modern description of the levels of hell on page 179 of the book at the link below. If you come across unfamiliar words, there is a dictionary of unfamiliar words at the bottom of the book.

https://archive.org/download/daniel-andreev-the-rose-of-the-world/Daniel-Andreev-The-Rose-of-the-World.pdf

 

HI Coil

Glad you are surviving the conflict. Hell is a matter of beleif and just because one does not believe in hell or afterlife doesn't mean they will live a wicked life. Life is full of challenges for everyone different as they may be and whether you believe in God does not change that you the individual has to make the final choice. 

I am not referring to you specifically and speaking in general terms. If a choice is made and things go wrong I can't look surprised and say WTF did you do god because I made the choice or do I resign myself to saying oh well, it was god's will for the same reason. Life is R&D research and development, trial and error with both good and bad outcomes. It is our job to understand the patterns and conditions that things happen in and why so we can make better choices. 

I have no expectation beyond this life and glad to have had the experience of having had with both me and having a memory of me dying with me. 

THE END

LOL