Giza Diagonal and The Great Giza Circle

[Stokke]

This is a screenshot from Scott Creighton's latest video The Great Pyramid's Greatest Secret - showing both the Giza Diagonal and The Great Giza Circle.

He argues that the two set of "queens´ pyramids" represent Orions Belt in miniature and that the diagonal locks the two sets together, representing the same stars. And he goes on explaining how this indicates that the orientation of the stars has shifted (see the video).

He also points out that it is remarkable that "The Great Sphinx sits right at the outer edge of the circle", but he never explain this "circumstance that is not likely to have happened by mere circumstance".

If intentional - anyone here knows why?

And another question to those of you who are into movements of the stars and software that shows those things - if the two sets of miniature pyramids show the minimum and maximum culmination of Orions Belt, what set is the minimum (and when), and what set is the maximum (and when)?

Much can (and have been) said of Creighton´s research - I for one think that he went off in the deep end with his accusations against Vyse - but there is no denying that Giza might still be hiding a few secrets.

 

[Scott Creighton]

 

Orion's Belt precesional cycle (rising east, setting S. swest). Notice how between the two culimination points, the Belt stars rotate 90 degrees (just like we observe in the 2 sets of Queens at Giza). 

SC

[Mark_C]

14 hours ago, Stokke said:

he went off in the deep end with his accusations against Vyse

The 'Khufu cartouche' has been mistranslated. It's not the name of a king, it describes a type of hydrogen lamp. More information here -  Khufus dead, long liveth deuterium lamps 

 

 

[Stokke]

25 minutes ago, Scott Creighton said:

 

Orion's Belt precesional cycle (rising east, setting S. swest). Notice how between the two culimination points, the Belt stars rotate 90 degrees (just like we observe in the 2 sets of Queens at Giza). 

Thank you Scott.

So the "Menkaure Queens" would represent 10.500 BCE, and the "Khufu Queens" 2.500 CE, in this scenario.

Have you speculated as to why the Sphinx touches the Great Circle?

[Scott Creighton]

1 hour ago, Stokke said:

Thank you Scott.

So the "Menkaure Queens" would represent 10.500 BCE, and the "Khufu Queens" 2.500 CE, in this scenario.

Have you speculated as to why the Sphinx touches the Great Circle?

See this post here.

The 2 sets of Queens with the Great Giza Circle tells us what happened/happens.

The 2 sets of Queens with the Giza Diagonal and the 'clock hand' (G2 centre and Sphinx), tells us when it happened/happens.

SC

Edited August 6 by Scott Creighton

[Stokke]

Got it. Thank you.

[Windowpane]

16 hours ago, Stokke said:

...

he [Scott Creighton] went off in the deep end with his accusations against Vyse 

...

 

On this forum, he [Scott Creighton] proposed that there was evidence suggesting that, before returning to Egypt in late 1836, Vyse had purchased scholarly books with information that would help him to forge cartouche names of Khufu.

There is more discussion of this proposal in this article.

[Scott Creighton]

21 hours ago, Stokke said:

Much can (and have been) said of Creighton´s research - I for one think that he went off in the deep end with his accusations against Vyse - but there is no denying that Giza might still be hiding a few secrets.

I rather doubt that any amount of evidence will ever convince you or any of the other Vyse fanboys n girls here that there is anything at all wrong with the painted markings in those four chambers. However, I will leave this paper (authored by me) here for the silent majority to ponder; those with a more objective and open-minded view to draw their own conclusion.

I should add that this is not an invitation to discuss the whole Vyse question again. It's been argued to death now for years and I won't be discussing it further here. 

SC

Edited August 6 by Scott Creighton

[Kenemet]

23 hours ago, Stokke said:

This is a screenshot from Scott Creighton's latest video The Great Pyramid's Greatest Secret - showing both the Giza Diagonal and The Great Giza Circle.

He argues that the two set of "queens´ pyramids" represent Orions Belt in miniature and that the diagonal locks the two sets together, representing the same stars. And he goes on explaining how this indicates that the orientation of the stars has shifted (see the video).

He also points out that it is remarkable that "The Great Sphinx sits right at the outer edge of the circle", but he never explain this "circumstance that is not likely to have happened by mere circumstance".

If intentional - anyone here knows why?

And another question to those of you who are into movements of the stars and software that shows those things - if the two sets of miniature pyramids show the minimum and maximum culmination of Orions Belt, what set is the minimum (and when), and what set is the maximum (and when)?

Much can (and have been) said of Creighton´s research - I for one think that he went off in the deep end with his accusations against Vyse - but there is no denying that Giza might still be hiding a few secrets.

 

It's a pretty selective circle.

Remember that as seen from the ground, the constellation star positions aren't a match (you have to either turn the map upside down and measure against the sky or turn the sky upside down and measure the land.)

For one thing, it ignores all the things that the Egyptians would have considered part of each pyramid (the retaining wall -- Menkaure's wall, for instance, is partly in and partly out.  It also neglects "why did they put so much stuff in the way of the sight line for that direct line and why did they put stuff in the way of the circle?"  There's at least two temples, a wall, and mastabas in the way between the two endpoints of the line.  

If you look at topographic maps, it looks even less plausible:

 

(PBS source here: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/pyramid/resources/gizamap.html)

(from here: https://aeraweb.org/projects/gpmp/)

Khufu's pyramid was built first... so why is the "great circle" not centered on that?  The circle touches the tail of the Great Sphinx, but the sphinx can't actually be seen from the center point of the circle (or from Menkaure's pyramid or from Khufu's either.  It's too far downslope.)  The circle arbitrarily (?) includes only part of the Eastern cemetery field with its important tombs, only part of the Central cemetery field, but all of the Western cemetery field.  The tombs are a mixture of date ranges including some built while the pyramids were being built.  Why weren't the areas zoned and restricted so that the line of sight was preserved?

And how in the heck did they make and maintain a perfect circle on that scale and across that many changes in landscape elevation?  We can do it today with modern surveying tools and satellite data, but they didn't have that back then and a rope long enough to be half the diameter of the circle (so they could put it on the ground and then trot around carrying the other end of the rope to line out the circle) would run into trouble with the changes in landscape elevation.

 

...etcetera.

No, it's just someone with modern information drawing things on a map.  Doesn't mean that the drawing/lines were a deliberate choice by the ancient Egyptians. 

[Scott Creighton]

59 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

It's a pretty selective circle.

Remember that as seen from the ground, the constellation star positions aren't a match (you have to either turn the map upside down and measure against the sky or turn the sky upside down and measure the land.)

For one thing, it ignores all the things that the Egyptians would have considered part of each pyramid (the retaining wall -- Menkaure's wall, for instance, is partly in and partly out.  It also neglects "why did they put so much stuff in the way of the sight line for that direct line and why did they put stuff in the way of the circle?"  There's at least two temples, a wall, and mastabas in the way between the two endpoints of the line.  

If you look at topographic maps, it looks even less plausible:

 

(PBS source here: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/pyramid/resources/gizamap.html)

(from here: https://aeraweb.org/projects/gpmp/)

Khufu's pyramid was built first... so why is the "great circle" not centered on that?  The circle touches the tail of the Great Sphinx, but the sphinx can't actually be seen from the center point of the circle (or from Menkaure's pyramid or from Khufu's either.  It's too far downslope.)  The circle arbitrarily (?) includes only part of the Eastern cemetery field with its important tombs, only part of the Central cemetery field, but all of the Western cemetery field.  The tombs are a mixture of date ranges including some built while the pyramids were being built.  Why weren't the areas zoned and restricted so that the line of sight was preserved?

And how in the heck did they make and maintain a perfect circle on that scale and across that many changes in landscape elevation?  We can do it today with modern surveying tools and satellite data, but they didn't have that back then and a rope long enough to be half the diameter of the circle (so they could put it on the ground and then trot around carrying the other end of the rope to line out the circle) would run into trouble with the changes in landscape elevation.

 

...etcetera.

No, it's just someone with modern information drawing things on a map.  Doesn't mean that the drawing/lines were a deliberate choice by the ancient Egyptians. 

A people who cut, moved and set in place millions of tons of limestone and granite blocks to build the world's most incredible monuments. A people who could craft statues in the hardest stone to perfection. A people who could create the tiniest of vessels from the hardest stone.

Yet you think it would be beyond them to trace a circle on the ground.

Righto.

SC 

Edited August 6 by Scott Creighton

[Kenemet]

47 minutes ago, Scott Creighton said:

A people who cut, moved and set in place millions of tons of limestone and granite blocks to build the world's most incredible monuments. A people who could craft statues in the hardest stone to perfection. A people who could create the tiniest of vessels from the hardest stone.

Yet you think it would be beyond them to trace a circle on the ground.

Righto.

SC 

I feel confident in saying that 'cutting and moving millions of tons of rock doesn't suddenly enable people to perform trigonometry.'  Otherwise everybody who ever worked a rock quarry in the 20th century would be geniuses at trig problems.  

I also feel confident that they did not have the right tools to establish a circle with a diameter of over 1 kilometer where the landform elevation differences vary over 50 feet (and where the center of the circle is NOT the highest point). 

CASE IN POINT:

There's an image of surveyors at work from the tomb of Mena (https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Fragment-of-the-top-register-of-wall-5-of-the-18th-Dynasty-tomb-of-Menna-showing-land_fig1_304180775)  They're clearly NOT using tacheometric methods in spite of the fact that they're measuring some large fields. They're using stick-and-chain methods.  Note multiple people holding the surveying chain (well, rope) -- so they'd need a rope over half a kilometer long to do that big circle.  But the rope-and-chain is hard to make work if you're stretching it across and over terrain that is lower than you and higher than you.Rope, by the way, stretches and has weight (several hundred pounds weight to make one to stretch the radius of your proposed circle.)  So it'd sag and stretch (known problems for early surveyors) 

If you're going to propose that they did it by tacheometry (visual methods) then that still needs "line of sight", which means you can't measure things that are hidden behind other things.  Measuring something downslope or upslope by tacheometry ... well, you will have to wait till someone invents trigonometry.  See page 28 of surveying "how to" PDF (https://byjusexamprep.com/liveData/f/2022/12/surveying_18.pdf)

 

 

And, of course, we're seeing the ground as it is AFTER the AE's modified the landscape, so the original would have been far "lumpier."  And why measure a circle when they didn't bother to level out the ground there or even remove that 105' tall massif that would have blocked their view. 

So.... let's see your explanation of HOW they measured that circle (with all of the uneven ground)

 

 

 

NOTES:

Sphinx is at an elevation of around 25 feet above the Nile, the pyramids are from 60 to 65 feet above the Nile, and there's a massif within the circle that is over 105 feet in elevation, which means they couldn't see behind that feature when standing at the center point of the circle you drew.

 

 

Ancient Egyptian surveying methods paper: https://www.academia.edu/download/32764331/Surveying_Ancient_Egypt.pdf

Sprague DeCamp's Ancient Engineers: https://archive.org/details/ancientengineers0000spra

Rope weigh: thttps://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/176e152/could_you_drag_a_1_mile_length_of_rope_any/)

Rope sag:  https://byjusexamprep.com/liveData/f/2022/12/surveying_18.pdf 

[Thanos5150]

3 hours ago, Kenemet said:

So.... let's see your explanation of HOW they measured that circle (with all of the uneven ground)

....

You don't have to "measure a circle on the ground", all you need is your center point (G2) and the length of your desired radius which can be whatever. 

Any structure laid out to the measure of the radius from the G2 center point (like the corners) would fall on the circumference of this "circle" and ultimately in and of itself definite it. No "trigonometry" required. 

Edited August 7 by Thanos5150

[Scott Creighton]

For whatever reason G2 was evidently moved 'off plan'. And there is some evidence within G2 itself that suggests the pyramid was slightly relocated (i.e. relocated off Al Nilam centre in above image).

SC

Edited August 7 by Scott Creighton

[Kenemet]

4 hours ago, Scott Creighton said:

For whatever reason G2 was evidently moved 'off plan'. And there is some evidence within G2 itself that suggests the pyramid was slightly relocated (i.e. relocated off Al Nilam centre in above image).

SC

I'll be bold and say "it's because it was never 'on plan'."  That you've simply drawn a 1km circle that could not have been constructed by the ancient Egyptians. 

I'm not saying they're stupid or too unsophisticated.  I'm saying that if they had wanted a "great circle" one km in diameter, they would have cleared the whole area so they could actually SEE the points in the circle.  Half the things on your map are not visible from ground level at the location of Khafre's pyramid.  In fact, they're not visible even if you stood on top of a platform 20 feet high.  Or 30 ft high (you can't see the northwest area because of the knoll that's 40 feet higher than the level of the ground at G2.)

If they'd wanted a "great circle", then they wouldn't be breaking the integrity of it by putting buildings and structures related to the "stars" half in and half out of the great circle or cutting tombs in half (or, for that matter, building tombs that broke the integrity of the circle itself.)

[Scott Creighton]

14 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

I'll be bold and say "it's because it was never 'on plan'."  That you've simply drawn a 1km circle that could not have been constructed by the ancient Egyptians. 

I'm not saying they're stupid or too unsophisticated.  I'm saying that if they had wanted a "great circle" one km in diameter, they would have cleared the whole area so they could actually SEE the points in the circle.  Half the things on your map are not visible from ground level at the location of Khafre's pyramid.  In fact, they're not visible even if you stood on top of a platform 20 feet high.  Or 30 ft high (you can't see the northwest area because of the knoll that's 40 feet higher than the level of the ground at G2.)

If they'd wanted a "great circle", then they wouldn't be breaking the integrity of it by putting buildings and structures related to the "stars" half in and half out of the great circle or cutting tombs in half (or, for that matter, building tombs that broke the integrity of the circle itself.)

Are you for real?

It's only you that's suggesting the designers placed a 1Km circle actually on the Giza plateau. There's absolutely no need to do that. This plan could all have been designed on a small piece of parchment then simply scaled up on the plateau using a grid-system and long cords. This really isn't rocket science.

And those inter-quarter lines with the circumscribed circle (with G2 centre on Al Nilam centre) tell me that there is no question that Giza is a unified plan (based upon Orion's Belt). Just one pyramid size difference or misplacement and this whole 'unity of design' breaks down. So you can certainly be bold with your assertion but I am convinced you are almost certainly wrong with it. G2 was planned on Al Nilam centre and (for whatever reason) the builders felt a need to relocate it from it's Belt position.

We shall simply have to agree to disagree on this.

SC 

Edited August 7 by Scott Creighton

[Kenemet]

1 hour ago, Scott Creighton said:

It's only you that's suggesting the designers placed a 1Km circle actually on the Giza plateau. There's absolutely no need to do that. This plan could all have been designed on a small piece of parchment then simply scaled up on the plateau using a grid-system and long cords. This really isn't rocket science. 

The distance between G1 and G3 is 0.8 kilometers.  The circle (which encompasses the queens' pyramids) is slightly larger than that, so a guess of "about 1km" is not terribly unreasonable for the diameter of the circle.  If you like, we can knock it down to 0.9 kilometers or even use the 0.8 kilometers but that knocks off some of the queens' pyramids.

And that's how I get a measure of 1km for the diameter of the circle.

So... I know you're with me at this point.

 

Now... let's take it from YOUR supposition that Khufu (or someone) said "we absolutely, positively must design this cemetery feature to totally and exactly resemble the belt stars of Orion (or equivalent name of the constellation.)  They point to the Giza plateau (for whatever reason) where there's already a cemetery and say "we want it there."

King and his architect Hemiunu and crews trot over there.  King stops on a piece of ground, puts his was-scepter on it, and says "this will be the place for my pyramid.  434 cubits long.  It's going to be the star right over there! (points)"

So here we are at the beginning of building in the graveyard of Giza's plateau.  Hemiunu (for whatever reason) turn the sky map upside down, march to the place for G2 and G3, pre-size those pyramids (so that the whole plan is in place), sketches out the location of the queens' pyramids, pre-determines that the first and third pyramids will have 3 queens' pyramids but the middle one will have only one.  (and assigns them to his sons and successors, some of which haven't been born.)  

Nothing's been built.  No Sphinx, no temples, it's just the bare ground in a cemetery and it's ready for building.  Hemiunu has the finished "floor plan" of Giza in his hands.  Now he draws his circle around pyramids to enclose the upside down representation of Orion's belt stars-- just like your map.

Hemiunu and Khufu are standing there, looking at the future (per Hancock) "Orion Belt Site" and see something like this:

or this but with fewer camels and more mastabas:

It's lumpy, it's rocky, and the landscape goes up and down by over 80 feet (lowest point to highest point) in all sorts of uneven ways.  And yes, there's a big lump of rock like that in the northwest area of your circle that must have been there when Hemiunu showed up with Khufu.  

There would also be a lot of mastabas around that block the view.

 

 

 

SO... with rope and stick, do explain how Hemiunu is going to ensure a perfect circle (like his lord and master wants) exists on the ground?  Because when your rope-guys stand in the gullies or on the hilltops, that distorts the circle (rope on that side gets much shorter.)  And the rope is going to sag which will give him a lumpy and distorted circle.  And your rope has to go around or over the mastabas (which are relatively new and rather tall) in order to measure along the circle.

How does HE do it and why doesn't he actually level the entire circle (using the excess material for temples and inner parts of the pyramids)?

No handwavium of "well, he just did."  Two questions:  How does he ensure a perfect circle AND why didn't he level the circle when they obviously leveled the land around the pyramids?

Edited August 7 by Kenemet

[Scott Creighton]

30 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

The distance between G1 and G3 is 0.8 kilometers.  The circle (which encompasses the queens' pyramids) is slightly larger than that, so a guess of "about 1km" is not terribly unreasonable for the diameter of the circle.  If you like, we can knock it down to 0.9 kilometers or even use the 0.8 kilometers but that knocks off some of the queens' pyramids.

And that's how I get a measure of 1km for the diameter of the circle.

So... I know you're with me at this point.

 

Now... let's take it from YOUR supposition that Khufu (or someone) said "we absolutely, positively must design this cemetery feature to totally and exactly resemble the belt stars of Orion (or equivalent name of the constellation.)  They point to the Giza plateau (for whatever reason) where there's already a cemetery and say "we want it there."

King and his architect Hemiunu and crews trot over there.  King stops on a piece of ground, puts his was-scepter on it, and says "this will be the place for my pyramid.  434 cubits long.  It's going to be the star right over there! (points)"

So here we are at the beginning of building in the graveyard of Giza's plateau.  Hemiunu (for whatever reason) turn the sky map upside down, march to the place for G2 and G3, pre-size those pyramids (so that the whole plan is in place), sketches out the location of the queens' pyramids, pre-determines that the first and third pyramids will have 3 queens' pyramids but the middle one will have only one.  (and assigns them to his sons and successors, some of which haven't been born.)  

Nothing's been built.  No Sphinx, no temples, it's just the bare ground in a cemetery and it's ready for building.  Hemiunu has the finished "floor plan" of Giza in his hands.  Now he draws his circle around pyramids to enclose the upside down representation of Orion's belt stars-- just like your map.

Hemiunu and Khufu are standing there, looking at the future (per Hancock) "Orion Belt Site" and see something like this:

or this but with fewer camels and more mastabas:

It's lumpy, it's rocky, and the landscape goes up and down by over 80 feet (lowest point to highest point) in all sorts of uneven ways.  And yes, there's a big lump of rock like that in the northwest area of your circle that must have been there when Hemiunu showed up with Khufu.  

There would also be a lot of mastabas around that block the view.

 

 

 

SO... with rope and stick, do explain how Hemiunu is going to ensure a perfect circle (like his lord and master wants) exists on the ground?  Because when your rope-guys stand in the gullies or on the hilltops, that distorts the circle (rope on that side gets much shorter.)  And the rope is going to sag which will give him a lumpy and distorted circle.  And your rope has to go around or over the mastabas (which are relatively new and rather tall) in order to measure along the circle.

How does HE do it and why doesn't he actually level the entire circle (using the excess material for temples and inner parts of the pyramids)?

No handwavium of "well, he just did."  Two questions:  How does he ensure a perfect circle AND why didn't he level the circle when they obviously leveled the land around the pyramids?

I see you're back to your old tactic of simply ignoring what has been said to you. Fingers in ears, head in sand.

THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO PLACE THE CIRCLE ON THE GROUND!!  

Read it and understand it.

SC

[Windowpane]

On 8/6/2024 at 4:31 PM, Scott Creighton said:

I rather doubt that any amount of evidence will ever convince you or any of the other Vyse fanboys n girls here that there is anything at all wrong with the painted markings in those four chambers. However, I will leave this paper (authored by me) here for the silent majority to ponder; those with a more objective and open-minded view to draw their own conclusion.

I should add that this is not an invitation to discuss the whole Vyse question again. It's been argued to death now for years ...

Mainly by you.

[Windowpane]

4 hours ago, Kenemet said:

...

Hemiunu and Khufu are standing there, looking at the future (per Hancock) "Orion Belt Site" ...

...

Hemiunu (enthusiastically):  When the three pyramids planned for you and your descendants are in place, Sire, they will form a timeless reflection of stars of great Sah, Father of the Gods: the stars to which your royal ba will travel during all the fullness of eternity!

Khufu (doubtfully): Yes ... well, progress is being made with my own Akhet, it's true.  But the royal coffers won't stretch to the construction of two more such akhets during my lifetime.  So what happens to my ba while it waits for those akhets to be put in place?  It can travel each night to the stars of great Sah: but the return each morning is going to be a bit of a disappointment for my poor ba, surely?  Just one akhet all on its own, without the other two: not very symbolic of the stars of great Sah at all, is it?

Hemiunu (wishing now he hadn't said anything): But, Sire, your descendants will wish to lose no time in constructing their own akhets to complete this mighty symbolic enterprise, so that all three royal bas may share the glorious nightly journey to the divine abode in the sky, and morning return to its earthly facsimile!

Khufu: Do you have a family, Hemiunu?

Hemiunu: Indeed, Sire: several strapping sons delight and comfort my earthly days.

Khufu: I see.  And do they always carry out all your instructions without question?

Hemiunu (sensing where this is going): Er ... oh, yes, Sire!

Khufu: Really.

[Trelane]

So we're back to the Hancock-Bauval speculations of '92? Awesome. 😂

[Kenemet]

8 hours ago, Scott Creighton said:

I see you're back to your old tactic of simply ignoring what has been said to you. Fingers in ears, head in sand.

THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO PLACE THE CIRCLE ON THE GROUND!!  

Read it and understand it.

SC

If they don't mark it out on the ground, how do they know that what they've done fits within your circle?  Something could be 10 feet off (quite possible if they're measuring with rope and stick) and your "circle" would be a "lumpy oval." 

Or are you saying it's all an accident?  Because I'm saying it's accidental and nothing that they designed.

[Scott Creighton]

5 hours ago, Kenemet said:

If they don't mark it out on the ground, how do they know that what they've done fits within your circle?  Something could be 10 feet off (quite possible if they're measuring with rope and stick) and your "circle" would be a "lumpy oval." 

Or are you saying it's all an accident?  Because I'm saying it's accidental and nothing that they designed.

Like I said, once the plan is designed (on piece of parchment or whatever), the various physical elements within the plan (i.e. pyramids) are then scaled up and set in place using a simple grid system. In fact, one long, single line (i.e. the Giza Diagonal) would be sufficient for them to achieve this obective:

"The Giza diagonal line passes close to the diagonal of Menkaure's first subsidiary pyramid (GIII-a), the front of Khafre's mortuary temple and Khufu's first subsidiary pyramid (GI-a). The west sides of Khufu's and Khafre's pyramids are close to alignment with the fronts of the temples of Khafre and Menkaure respectively; and the south side of Khafre's pyramid aligns with the south wall of the Sphinx Temple. These alignments are out by just about the amount that we would expect from methods of sighting and measuring using long cords across a kilometre of sloping plateau. The great northeast-southwest Giza diagonal ends to the southwest at a small hilock of the Madi Formation that may have been useful as a 'back sight' for the ancient surveyors, which they could use to align points across the plateau." - Lehner, TCP, 2008 Ed., p.106. 

They did a pretty good job.

SC

Edited August 8 by Scott Creighton

[Scott Creighton]

Another curious aspect of the Great Giza Diagonal that's worth pointing out here is it's midpoint.

When I first presented the image below (almost 2 decades ago), researcher Don Barone observed that the midpoint of the Giza Diagonal (green line from apex of G1a to apex of G3a) was in near perfect alignment with the Sphinx, thus:

Just yet another remarkable geometrical coincidence? Or is there a purpose to it?

SC

 

Edited August 11 by Scott Creighton

[Thanos5150]

On 8/8/2024 at 12:54 AM, Scott Creighton said:

"The Giza diagonal line passes close to the diagonal of Menkaure's first subsidiary pyramid (GIII-a), the front of Khafre's mortuary temple and Khufu's first subsidiary pyramid (GI-a). The west sides of Khufu's and Khafre's pyramids are close to alignment with the fronts of the temples of Khafre and Menkaure respectively; and the south side of Khafre's pyramid aligns with the south wall of the Sphinx Temple. These alignments are out by just about the amount that we would expect from methods of sighting and measuring using long cords across a kilometre of sloping plateau. The great northeast-southwest Giza diagonal ends to the southwest at a small hilock of the Madi Formation that may have been useful as a 'back sight' for the ancient surveyors, which they could use to align points across the plateau." - Lehner, TCP, 2008 Ed., p.106. 

Compare to any of Kenemet's comments in this thread or previous discussions. 

Like this one: "I also feel confident that they did not have the right tools to establish a circle with a diameter of over 1 kilometer where the landform elevation differences vary over 50 feet (and where the center of the circle is NOT the highest point)."

Good grief. 

She keeps trying to create the strawman they had to physically create a circle yet no one is saying this and should be common sense to anyone to make an implied circle actually making a circle is not required. And this from someone who supposedly taught math to children? And then she just keeps insisting that no one could do such things regardless because of the slope, the distance of a kilometer, and structures she keeps insisting were in the way which were not nor is the slope an issue nor the distance yet no matter how many times it is explained she just keeps saying it anyways. Its just the same never ending gobbledygook.  

And again, regarding the other part of your post, as if this needed to be explained to a functioning adult, when you make a center point across this line, the diameter, you create a radius.

 

So...to define the implied circumference of a circle you do not have actually draw the circle, but rather only the plot points of the radius.  

[Kenemet]

On 8/8/2024 at 2:54 AM, Scott Creighton said:

Like I said, once the plan is designed (on piece of parchment or whatever), the various physical elements within the plan (i.e. pyramids) are then scaled up and set in place using a simple grid system. In fact, one long, single line (i.e. the Giza Diagonal) would be sufficient for them to achieve this obective:

"The Giza diagonal line passes close to the diagonal of Menkaure's first subsidiary pyramid (GIII-a), the front of Khafre's mortuary temple and Khufu's first subsidiary pyramid (GI-a). The west sides of Khufu's and Khafre's pyramids are close to alignment with the fronts of the temples of Khafre and Menkaure respectively; and the south side of Khafre's pyramid aligns with the south wall of the Sphinx Temple. These alignments are out by just about the amount that we would expect from methods of sighting and measuring using long cords across a kilometre of sloping plateau. The great northeast-southwest Giza diagonal ends to the southwest at a small hilock of the Madi Formation that may have been useful as a 'back sight' for the ancient surveyors, which they could use to align points across the plateau." - Lehner, TCP, 2008 Ed., p.106. 

They did a pretty good job.

SC

The thing is, I could do the same thing with the image of a teapot, since (like your circle) I can increase its size so that it doesn't touch any of the pyramids and still fits on the plateau.

I could do the same with an outline of the Eiffel Tower, Big Ben, Windsor Castle, the logo for Belstaff Leathers, the outline of a jar of Marmite, the LOGO off a jar of Marmite (particularly if I turn it upside down), a french fry (chip, I believe you call them), a slice of wheat bread, a drawing of a paramecium, a drawing of an amoeba (that would fit one of the height profiles, in fact), outline of a Cadbury egg, and the outline of Rudyard Kipling's head.

I could even (as you do) say that Hemiunu drew one of the above on his papyrus when he and Khufu were planning on mapping out the whole Giza plateau to reference the first three numbers of pi in the decimal system.

In order to prove that they intended a perfect circle around there, you have to come up with the evidence that they purposely drew a 1km circle instead of drawing a 1 km outline of a potato roll.