Giza Diagonal and The Great Giza Circle

[The Puzzler]

In 3000 BCE it was good to live near water. As bronze-age cultures settled in ever-expanding urban populations, fertile river valleys were the perfect place to raise crops, graze livestock and trade with neighbors. The Nile valley birthed Ancient Egypt, the Tigris and Euphrates rivers fed the Mesopotamian cultures—and to the east, in what is now India and Pakistan, the massive Indus river system became home to a sprawling civilization that perfected complex architecture, urban planning and sophisticated arts and crafts.

The Indus Valley Civilization as it is known today emerged from a semi-nomadic culture that settled at sites like Mehrgarh, in Pakistan’s Balochistan province. 
https://www.arthistoryproject.com/timeline/prehistory/indus-valley-civilization/

Which is why, if nothing else…the Indus Valley civilisation didn’t come from the Tamils…they were PAKISTANI indigenous types.

But bigger questions loom here.

Edited September 12 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

On 9/10/2024 at 1:15 AM, The Puzzler said:

But you know, even in English a human, often old and not with it, is called a “geezer”…you old geezer…is it a co-incidence it means human because a geezer is a person.

Simply Giza means human, even in English.

A people’s (human) habitation…. Giza

Laugh hard Abe…

Atlantis found! Your topic was shut down within 4 replies…Are you drinking more than me?

Arabic is a Semitic language, a branch of the Afro-Asiatic language family that also includes Hebrew, Aramaic, Kurdish, and Berber, among others. Arabic most likely began to develop as an independent language sometime around the 2nd millennium BCE in the Arabian Peninsula.

Edited September 12 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

Indus Valley Civilization has many things to compare and contrast with Ancient Egypt Civilization. They are comparable in the way they are located, technology contributions, and their agriculture. They were both located near great rivers, oceans and fertile land. Even though, they were both contemporary civilizations, they were severely diverse in their culture and religion.
https://www.bartleby.com/essay/Comparing-Ancient-Egypt-And-Indus-Valley-Civilization-ABBE4488A833E26D#google_vignette

Culture and religion is expected to diversify…but initial comparisons are interesting. 

 

[Thanos5150]

On 9/7/2024 at 10:37 AM, Stokke said:

But I will reiterate my comments on G3-a:

G3-a is not a "Queens" pyramid. It is a Satellite pyramid. Khafre built a Satellite pyramid half the size of G3-a, and so did Khufu. There is no apparent reason for why Menkaure opted for twice the size - a smaller pyramid, half the size, in the same location, would suffice.

I don't think that Khufu built G1-d and was added after the fact hence its size, architectural similarity to G2-a, and odd location being stuffed into such a small area.  #73:

"As an aside, note how the G1 SP's disrespect the mortuary temple and causeway not to mention the pyramid itself:

The same can be said of the boat pit running along the causeway which is egregiously close even more so when looking at early excavation photos. Senseless, almost like they didn't know exactly where it was.  

When fully completed G1-a would be just a few feet from the MT and causeway which all 3 partially obscure the view of G1. Why not build them to the side like G2 and G3? Assuming they had all the space they needed at that point and G1 was mostly completed it makes no sense to build them not only where they are but in such unreasonably close proximity which begs the question why and what in fact was the order of construction i.e. what was actually built when. 

We can also see what an afterthought G1-d was and obviously not a part of any plan so harping on someone as to why it would not be included in any master plan is a bit trite." 

Others envision G3-a was an SP that was later converted to an actual tomb because of the supposedly similar "T" substructure, but I'm not seeing it and in reality is notably different than GII-a and G1-d. One of the things that speaks against it being a SP is that like G3-b and G3-c it also has a sizable mortuary temple connected to it. 

Quote

That some researchers have taken this "reason" to the extreme, should not dissuade us from pondering what this reason really is.

We can just ignore them, no? 

[Kenemet]

12 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

From your link…

94 H & WThe Paricanii and Ethiopians of Asia, being the seventeenth, paid four hundred; the Matieni, Saspiri, and Alarodii were the eighteenth, and two hundred talents were the appointed tribute. The Moschi, Tibareni, Macrones, Mossynoeci, and Mares, the nineteenth province, were ordered to pay three hundred. The Indians made up the twentieth province. These are more in number than any nation known to me, and they paid a greater tribute than any other province, namely three hundred and sixty talents of gold dust.

Yes.  Notice that the "Ethiopians of Asia" (whoever he means by that) are not the Indians -- they are two separate provinces.  He goes on to describe the Indians and their practices and it's clear that they're not the same people.

[Kenemet]

11 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

Following Strabo, the Greco-Roman historian Eusebius claims that the Ethiopians had emigrated into the Red Sea area from the Indus Valley and that there were no people in the region by that name prior to their arrival.

I guess he’s a big liar too…strangely enough, collaborating my flippant comment before how people from Indus may have been behind the Giza structures.

He's reporting what Eusebius told him.  Eusebius could have made the whole thing up or have gotten it from someone who came from India but wanted respect as someone from a "better" culture (like many Americans who say they're descended from a "Cherokee princess")

None of them had access to archaeological digs (or knew how to do them) and they had no way of checking genetics.  What they reported is what the people told them or things they concluded based on a limited amount of information.

[Kenemet]

9 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

Indus Valley Civilization has many things to compare and contrast with Ancient Egypt Civilization. They are comparable in the way they are located, technology contributions, and their agriculture. They were both located near great rivers, oceans and fertile land. Even though, they were both contemporary civilizations, they were severely diverse in their culture and religion.
https://www.bartleby.com/essay/Comparing-Ancient-Egypt-And-Indus-Valley-Civilization-ABBE4488A833E26D#google_vignette

Culture and religion is expected to diversify…but initial comparisons are interesting. 

 

I think that must have been generated by AI... it's pretty bad.

You could use those same qualities to link Indus and Aztecs, Indus and the Mound Builders, Indus and the Caddoans, Indus and the Chinese... or Indus and about any civilization that you can think of, including the European civilization in America (or Brazil, for that matter.)

[Spiros]

On 9/8/2024 at 11:14 PM, Spiros said:

Hello Scott,

 

When considering the orientation and meaning of the satellite pyramids we have to take into account what the cult pyramids represented. Is it possible that the small cult pyramids related in some way to the Great Sphinx? Take a look here:

 

https://the-phaistos-disk.webnode.page/satellite-pyramids/

 

Best Regards

Spiros

The average base length of the two outer main Giza pyramids is 320.57 royal cubits. According to Lehner the original length of the Sphinx was 137 royal cubits. The ratio R of these lengths is:

R = 320.57 c / 137 c = 2.34

The three satellite pyramids of Khufu and Menkaure seem to be transformations, depicting the three main pyramids. Therefore if we assume the same is the case for the sphinx and the small cult pyramids of Khufu and Khafre, then we can deduce a theoretical value for the base length of the Khufu pyramid satellite pyramids using the size - base length of the smallest pyramid at Giza, the cult pyramid of Khafre. Therefore:

W(satellite) = R x W(cult Khafre) = 2.34 x 39.92 royal cubits = 93.39 royal cubits

This is therefore close to the base of G1b the central satellite pyramid of Khufu which according to:

http://www.narmer.pl/pir/pir1_en.htm

is 91.92 royal cubits

If we use the average base length of Khafre pyramid and Menkaure's pyramid 306.33 royal cubits then we are led to the satellite pyramid G1a. G1c is also not far off.

Does this mean that a North-South orientation of the source of the pyramids contains a Sphinx while a East-West orientation of the source of the pyramids, contains no Sphinx? The source - what inspired the pyramid design - is groups of mountains.

 

 

[Stokke]

On 9/12/2024 at 7:38 PM, Thanos5150 said:

I don't think that Khufu built G1-d and was added after the fact hence its size, architectural similarity to G2-a, and odd location being stuffed into such a small area.  #73:

Why add it later - for what purpose?

"As an aside, note how the G1 SP's disrespect the mortuary temple and causeway not to mention the pyramid itself:

The same can be said of the boat pit running along the causeway which is egregiously close even more so when looking at early excavation photos. Senseless, almost like they didn't know exactly where it was.

Perhaps you think that the boat by the causeway served the same purpose as the boats alongside the pyramids? It didn't. 

When fully completed G1-a would be just a few feet from the MT and causeway which all 3 partially obscure the view of G1. Why not build them to the side like G2 and G3? Assuming they had all the space they needed at that point and G1 was mostly completed it makes no sense to build them not only where they are but in such unreasonably close proximity which begs the question why and what in fact was the order of construction i.e. what was actually built when.

I am not privy to what the Ancient Egyptians considered too close or too far away - hence I have no problems with its location. 

We can also see what an afterthought G1-d was and obviously not a part of any plan so harping on someone as to why it would not be included in any master plan is a bit trite." 

Luckily then that no-one is harping on it. For future reference - nobody cares what you consider interesting or trite. You do not like or agree with a post? Feel free to ignore it.

Obvious afterthought? Well, if G3-d is not Khufu's "cult tomb" (Tekenu tomb), where is it? They all needed one.

 

On 9/12/2024 at 7:38 PM, Thanos5150 said:

Others envision G3-a was an SP that was later converted to an actual tomb because of the supposedly similar "T" substructure, but I'm not seeing it and in reality is notably different than GII-a and G1-d. One of the things that speaks against it being a SP is that like G3-b and G3-c it also has a sizable mortuary temple connected to it. 

Seeing it? As in you have been inside the chambers?

We can just ignore them, no?

You do you.

 

Edited September 14 by Stokke

[Wepwawet]

21 minutes ago, Stokke said:

I am not privy to what the Ancient Egyptians considered too close or too far away - hence I have no problems with its location. 

I think that Karnak shows that notwithstanding the sheer size and visibility of G1 and G2, the AE may not have been as preoccupied as we are in creating spaces in which to best view monuments. The ruined state of Karnak today allows views that the AE just did not have. Many of the pylons, no matter how large, would have been obscured, many oblelisks tucked away in what had become "alleys" when the next pylon was built. I suspect that an observer outside of the temple complex would have seen nothing of the actual grandure of the pylons and the walls of the actual temples, just the top of the flagpoles and obelisks peeking out over a seeming jumble of the tops of walls, pylons and the temples, with no grand view, except maybe approaching from the river.

Even into the last century "tourist views" of our great monuments, cathedrals, were often very obscured, the prime example being St Peter's in Rome that was surrounded by a maze of medieval buildings that Mussolini had demolished to provide the view we have today.

For illustration, the tightly packed complex at Karnak, built not for the view, but as the home of gods.

 

Edited September 14 by Wepwawet

[Stokke]

1 hour ago, Stokke said:

Well, if G3-d is not Khufu's "cult tomb" (Tekenu tomb), where is it?

Should have been G1-d.

[The Puzzler]

On 8/6/2024 at 4:10 AM, Stokke said:

This is a screenshot from Scott Creighton's latest video The Great Pyramid's Greatest Secret - showing both the Giza Diagonal and The Great Giza Circle.

He argues that the two set of "queens´ pyramids" represent Orions Belt in miniature and that the diagonal locks the two sets together, representing the same stars. And he goes on explaining how this indicates that the orientation of the stars has shifted (see the video).

He also points out that it is remarkable that "The Great Sphinx sits right at the outer edge of the circle", but he never explain this "circumstance that is not likely to have happened by mere circumstance".

If intentional - anyone here knows why?

And another question to those of you who are into movements of the stars and software that shows those things - if the two sets of miniature pyramids show the minimum and maximum culmination of Orions Belt, what set is the minimum (and when), and what set is the maximum (and when)?

Much can (and have been) said of Creighton´s research - I for one think that he went off in the deep end with his accusations against Vyse - but there is no denying that Giza might still be hiding a few secrets.

 

God, this forum goes from bad to worse…but at least the OP turned up..

 

In answer to your first question it’s the Orion Nebula, the Sphinx 

Edited September 15 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

On 9/13/2024 at 7:41 AM, Kenemet said:

Yes.  Notice that the "Ethiopians of Asia" (whoever he means by that) are not the Indians -- they are two separate provinces.  He goes on to describe the Indians and their practices and it's clear that they're not the same people.

It’s hard to know what “Indians” were like in those times, but yes 

[The Puzzler]

Most of you probably find me pretty ordinary but I make Orion posts in my spare time…it’s a wonderful constellation that hits Australia in Summer, not winter.

Its possible the followers of Orion were the Nephilim.

A 5-7-5 haiku about Orion…on a rust photo…

Haiku anyone, gee, I must have joined the UM Haiku topic like 15 years ago, started me on them.

and a photoshopped Southern Cross precise, that tricked everyone thinking it was an actual photo x

 

 

Edited September 15 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

The Giza diagonals could have come from another people…most likely early Indus Valley priests.

When cultures begin…We can see the same beginnings in, especially through trade. of other culture.

Edited September 15 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

Anyone can find the radius of a circle…well, not anyone  but I bet anyone here can…but once upon a time, it was hard, I’ll give you that.

https://www.harappa.com/content/indus-scale

[Kenemet]

12 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

It’s hard to know what “Indians” were like in those times, but yes 

According to Herodotus they were the "people who live in India."  And since they had writing almost as early as the Egyptians and Sumerians (and we also now have genetic mapping), it's pretty easy to say that they were the ancestors of those who live there today.

[Kenemet]

10 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

The Giza diagonals could have come from another people…most likely early Indus Valley priests.

When cultures begin…We can see the same beginnings in, especially through trade. of other culture.

Why would the Egyptians, whose empire was by then almost a thousand years old, borrow something from a people that they had only indirect contact with?  

And what's special about a diagonal?  Anyone can make one by connecting two or more points with a line.

[The Puzzler]

On 9/16/2024 at 8:11 AM, Kenemet said:

According to Herodotus they were the "people who live in India."  And since they had writing almost as early as the Egyptians and Sumerians (and we also now have genetic mapping), it's pretty easy to say that they were the ancestors of those who live there today.

Hacking scammers…? They were probably always good at it…scamming other cultures for their own benefit…

[The Puzzler]

On 9/16/2024 at 8:13 AM, Kenemet said:

Why would the Egyptians, whose empire was by then almost a thousand years old, borrow something from a people that they had only indirect contact with?  

And what's special about a diagonal?  Anyone can make one by connecting two or more points with a line.

What empire before the pyramids existed?…

[The Puzzler]

On 9/16/2024 at 8:13 AM, Kenemet said:

Why would the Egyptians, whose empire was by then almost a thousand years old, borrow something from a people that they had only indirect contact with?  

And what's special about a diagonal?  Anyone can make one by connecting two or more points with a line.

Because Egyptians were as gullible to priestly castes as anyone. No matter how big your empire is…hacking scammers always find an innocent patsy to preach to.

[The Puzzler]

4 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

Hacking scammers…? They were probably always good at it…scamming other cultures for their own benefit…

You have to look further than the lame brained Kings of civilisation and to the priests, the mufti, the Magi to see real power.

“The Amun priests of Thebes owned 2/3 of all the temple lands in Egypt, 90% of ships, and many other resources. Consequently, the Amun priests were as powerful as the Pharaoh, if not more so.”

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/atd-herkimer-westerncivilization/chapter/the-third-intermediate-period/

“consequently” we see Akhenaten erased from history in his time.

Edited September 17 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

I believe religion has always dominated our homo species, the beginnings of it, sparked the revolution of dominance on the world, even back 60,000 years ago.

Why did Neanderthals die out? Because homo had religion.

Unless Western worlds start practising Christianity (or some new powerful religion) whole heartedly, we will fall to Islam and then, only when Islam falls, will our humankind , as we know it, end.

”To establish his influence over this people for all time, Moses introduced new religious practices, quite opposed to those of all other religions.” Lacitus

Yes, I doubt that Egypt would have created pyramids nor had a reason to without the input of priests (from India).

Edited September 17 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

I’m not saying every block is the pyramids is this dimension but something added to the knowledge…

Indus valley civilization placed huge emphasis on precision. This is evident from the fact that the urban layout of the cities of this civilization is very organized with perpendicular roads intersecting each other and nicely uniform house structures made with precisely shaped bricks. All the bricks used in the structures of Indus valley civilization have a absolute ratio of 4:2:1 for the length width and height. Even today, in brick technology, this ratio is considered the best for optimal bonding of bricks.

Indus valley civilization was also very particular about using the ratios and used a series of binary and decimal ratios, that is ratios of 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64 which were binary and ratios of 10, 20, 40, 160, 200, 300, 640, 1600, 8000 and 12800. The existence of such a graduated system of accurately marked weights and lengths shows indicates highly developed trade and commerce in Harappan society. 

https://rahulyadavca.medium.com/indian-mathematics-mathematics-in-indus-valley-civilization-harappa-civilization-4d1ef95cb674

Egyptians didn’t use baked bricks obviously but it’s interesting in where the precision comes from…

The Tower of Babel was though…

Archaeological remains from the Indus Valley Civilization have been found in the ruins of Mohenjo-daro and Harappa, in modern-day Pakistan. Every brick they used, no matter what its size, was in the perfect ratio of 4 : 2 : 1 (length : width : height)—a ratio that engineers still (more or less) use,because it allows the brick to dry uniformly, it’s a handy size to work with, and it has a good proportion of surface area that can be bound to other brickswith whatever form of glue or mortar is used. At about the same time as theIndus Valley Civilization, the Chinese were also manufacturing bricks on a large scale. But for the humble brick to become one of Western civilization’smost used materials, we had to wait for the rise of one of its greatest empires.

Edited September 17 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

As to the original question of this topic…

What does the Sphinx represent…the Orion Nebula.