Robert Jenrick criticised for saying people shouting ‘Allahu Akbar’ should be arrested

[pellinore]

Jenrick, who is one of the favourites to win the Conservative leadership, was criticised by the Conservative peer Sayeeda Warsi and the Labour MP Naz Shah.

Warsi wrote on X: “Every day before we start parliamentary business in the Commons and Lords we say a prayer and praise God – we say our parliamentary version of Allahu Akbars at the heart of democracy – a process Robert Jenrick is a part of. This language from Jenrick is more of his usual nasty divisive rhetoric – he is such a tool.”

Shah, the MP for Bradford West, said: “This is complete ignorance and textbook Islamophobia from Robert Jenrick. It literally equates every Muslim in the world with extremism … It’s a basic Islamic saying that every Muslim in the world says in prayer.

Robert Jenrick criticised for saying people shouting ‘Allahu Akbar’ should be arrested | Robert Jenrick | The Guardian

Edited August 7 by pellinore

[+Desertrat56]

Not to mention it means the same thing in English as what every christian proclaims!   He is an idiot, but here he is being allowed to run a country (or is that ruin?).

[Abramelin]

1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

Not to mention it means the same thing in English as what every christian proclaims!   He is an idiot, but here he is being allowed to run a country (or is that ruin?).

"Allahu Akbar" is most often yelled when fanatic Muslims announce a (counter) attack, or celibrate an attack on non-Muslim targets.

And, btw., when was the last time you heard masses of Christians yell, fists held high, "God is great!"?

[Abramelin]

3 hours ago, pellinore said:

Jenrick, who is one of the favourites to win the Conservative leadership, was criticised by the Conservative peer Sayeeda Warsi and the Labour MP Naz Shah.

Warsi wrote on X: “Every day before we start parliamentary business in the Commons and Lords we say a prayer and praise God – we say our parliamentary version of Allahu Akbars at the heart of democracy – a process Robert Jenrick is a part of. This language from Jenrick is more of his usual nasty divisive rhetoric – he is such a tool.”

Shah, the MP for Bradford West, said: “This is complete ignorance and textbook Islamophobia from Robert Jenrick. It literally equates every Muslim in the world with extremism … It’s a basic Islamic saying that every Muslim in the world says in prayer.

Robert Jenrick criticised for saying people shouting ‘Allahu Akbar’ should be arrested | Robert Jenrick | The Guardian

I heard Moroccan Muslims yell "Allahu Akbar" in the streets here just after the attack on 9/11.

I and some of my neighbours made them feel sorry.

Edited to add:

"Allahu Akbar" may be a normal Muslim expression, but non-Muslims only know of this expression in connection to violence.

Edited August 7 by Abramelin

[pellinore]

2 hours ago, Abramelin said:

"Allahu Akbar" is most often yelled when fanatic Muslims announce a (counter) attack, or celibrate an attack on non-Muslim targets.

And, btw., when was the last time you heard masses of Christians yell, fists held high, "God is great!"?

And you wouldn't hear them shout it in Syria, Iraq, Iran, or Afghanistan either. They wouldn't survive long if they did. If people want to live in another country, they need to make an effort to assimilate. 

I was talking about this with an Iranian-born friend today (we were discussing the riots). He said that when he moved to England 40 years ago, he made a decision to wear Western clothes and accept Western values. And he said it is the best thing he ever did.

[+Desertrat56]

4 hours ago, Abramelin said:

"Allahu Akbar" is most often yelled when fanatic Muslims announce a (counter) attack, or celibrate an attack on non-Muslim targets.

And, btw., when was the last time you heard masses of Christians yell, fists held high, "God is great!"?

I have heard christians shouting it in church quite often when I was growing up, you can claim it is different, but christians are not immune to fanaticism either.   The ones you describe are fanatics, extremists and I suspect you have not ever seen any in real life, just on TV (emotionally charged "news")

[Setton]

5 hours ago, Abramelin said:

"Allahu Akbar" is most often yelled when fanatic Muslims announce a (counter) attack, or celibrate an attack on non-Muslim targets.

Pretty sure it's most often said during regular prayers. Five billion times every day, give or take. Minimum.

5 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Edited to add:

"Allahu Akbar" may be a normal Muslim expression, but non-Muslims only know of this expression in connection to violence.

That's your lack of knowledge. No one is responsible for that except you. It's certainly no reason someone else should have a to change a fundamental part of their religion.

This is the best explanation of the phrase I've seen. If you're open to learning, 1:50 - 3:16 is the key part to. Get across the breadth and depth of what Allahu Akbar can mean.

 

Edited August 7 by Setton

[Abramelin]

13 hours ago, Setton said:

Pretty sure it's most often said during regular prayers. Five billion times every day, give or take. Minimum.

That's your lack of knowledge. No one is responsible for that except you. It's certainly no reason someone else should have a to change a fundamental part of their religion.

This is the best explanation of the phrase I've seen. If you're open to learning, 1:50 - 3:16 is the key part to. Get across the breadth and depth of what Allahu Akbar can mean.

 

Whatever is said inside a mosque doesn't count. Most non-Muslims only know this expression because they hear Muslims yell it during mass demonstration on the streets with fists held high.

It doesn't matter what it means, it matters what it is associated with for non-Muslims: most often violence, or begging for revenge.

[Abramelin]

14 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

I have heard christians shouting it in church quite often when I was growing up, you can claim it is different, but christians are not immune to fanaticism either.   The ones you describe are fanatics, extremists and I suspect you have not ever seen any in real life, just on TV (emotionally charged "news")

Christians shouting in a church? I was talking about what is being shouted on the streets.

And believe me: there are enough Muslims living in my neighbourhood to know what I am talking about.

[Setton]

1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

Whatever is said inside a mosque doesn't count. Most non-Muslims only know this expression because they hear Muslims yell it during mass demonstration on the streets with fists held high.

It doesn't matter what it means, it matters what it is associated with for non-Muslims: most often violence, or begging for revenge.

Most of those five billion are not in a mosque.

Again, that's your wilful ignorance. Which is no one's responsibility but yours.

[Setton]

1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

Christians shouting in a church? I was talking about what is being shouted on the streets.

And believe me: there are enough Muslims living in my neighbourhood to know what I am talking about.

There's a Christian preacher on my high street every day yelling about how great god is.

Strangely no one seems to associate him with massive burning of heretics, forced conversion of indigenous children or the mass murder of civilians in the middle east. Wonder why.

Edited August 8 by Setton

[itsnotoutthere]

1 hour ago, Setton said:

There's a Christian preacher on my high street every day yelling about how great god is.

Strangely no one seems to associate him with massive burning of heretics, forced conversion of indigenous children or the mass murder of civilians in the middle east. Wonder why.

ooh ooh..I know....because Christians went through the enlightenment.

[L.A.T.1961]

2 hours ago, Setton said:

There's a Christian preacher on my high street every day yelling about how great god is.

Strangely no one seems to associate him with massive burning of heretics, forced conversion of indigenous children or the mass murder of civilians in the middle east. Wonder why.

Sounds like your preacher gets about a bit. 

[Abramelin]

2 hours ago, Setton said:

There's a Christian preacher on my high street every day yelling about how great god is.

Strangely no one seems to associate him with massive burning of heretics, forced conversion of indigenous children or the mass murder of civilians in the middle east. Wonder why.

Glad to say that doesn't happen here. At least not that I know of.

But still: if he started yelling "God is great!" after let's say that earthquake that hit Turkey and Syria, he'd have a problem here.

[Abramelin]

2 hours ago, Setton said:

Most of those five billion are not in a mosque.

Again, that's your wilful ignorance. Which is no one's responsibility but yours.

And you're intentionally ignoring the context.

[+Desertrat56]

3 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Christians shouting in a church? I was talking about what is being shouted on the streets.

And believe me: there are enough Muslims living in my neighbourhood to know what I am talking about.

Sometimes.     So, you are equating Muslims yelling "Allahu Akbar" in your neighborhood with violence?  Or is it that they are committing violence as they yell that?   Or is it that you believe the programming that has been going on in this country since the 80's that all Muslims are terrorists?      What are they doing when they yell that?   We have evangelists on street corners yelling at traffic "Jeus Saves!"   Not the same as "God is Great" and not for the same reason people say that in any language.   

[Abramelin]

2 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

.     So, you are equating Muslims yelling "Allahu Akbar" in your neighborhood with violence?  

They shouted "Death to America! " and "Allahu Akbar!" repeatly after 9/11. Fist held up, and in a large group.

Well, they probably meant it in the most friendly way..

[+Desertrat56]

1 minute ago, Abramelin said:

They shouted "Death to America! " and "Allahu Akbar!" repeatly after 9/11. Fist held up, and in a large group.

Well, they probably meant it in the most friendly way..

You are basing your opinion on something that happened over 20 years ago?   I am asking about your comment about the people you claim to be in your neighborhood!   You can make excuses for your ignorant attitude but you haven't backed it up yet.

[Abramelin]

Just now, Desertrat56 said:

You are basing your opinion on something that happened over 20 years ago?   I am asking about your comment about the people you claim to be in your neighborhood!   You can make excuses for your ignorant attitude but you haven't backed it up yet.

I just gave you the most clear example.

But I have also heard an older Muslim man say, when his neighbour showed him her newborn baby, Allahu Akbar. And of course he meant that well.

I understand what the expression means, and yes, I have visited a mosque on invitation.

And, I have witnessed groups of Muslims yelling Allaha Akbar after attacks on Israel.

 

[Ell]

Quote

Matthew 6:5-18; New International Version

5 And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others

 

Edited August 8 by Ell

[Setton]

2 hours ago, Abramelin said:

And you're intentionally ignoring the context.

I'm not ignoring any context. You are completely missing the context that Allahu Akbar doesn't mean what you're trying to portray it as.

The OP is about a politician arguing to arrest anyone who says that God is great. 

[Abramelin]

40 minutes ago, Setton said:

I'm not ignoring any context. You are completely missing the context that Allahu Akbar doesn't mean what you're trying to portray it as.

The OP is about a politician arguing to arrest anyone who says that God is great. 

Here in the Netherlands we have had several knife attacks and kills by some Muslim nutcase while yelling "Allahu Akbar". In other countries these mental cases shout "Allahu Akbar" and start shooting.

I hear this often, and so do others. So you can imagine when someone suddenly yells in some public space "Allahu Akbar!" it scares the bejeezus out of people. Imagine the panic when that happens in a train.

Thàt's context. People here and elsewhere are thus conditioned.

And what it really means is totally irrelevant.

Edited August 8 by Abramelin

[+Desertrat56]

22 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Here in the Netherlands we have had several knife attacks and kills by some Muslim nutcase while yelling "Allahu Akbar". In other countries these mental cases shout "Allahu Akbar" and start shooting.

I hear this often, and so do others. So you can imagine when someone suddenly yells in some public space "Allahu Akbar!" it scares the bejeezus out of people. Imagine the panic when that happens in a train.

Thàt's context. People here and elsewhere are thus conditioned.

And what it really means is totally irrelevant.

You should see the behaviour of people avoiding the "Jesus Saves!" shouters on the street corners here.   They use megaphones and often someone calls the police to get them to stop.   Not the same kind of reaction but the shouter has the same attitude.   "Everyone who doesn't believe as I do deserves to die and go to hell."   But the fear of muslims is manufactured in the U.S. for the most part, a story that was started back in the 80's about muslim terrorists blowing things up, however it gets old because, so far, all of the terrorists have been white/pink/beige male nutters, some living alone in a cabin hating the world, others in groups out in the woods or underground bunkers planning the destruction of the government and all brown people.   So, I get that things are different in europe than in the U.S.  I realize my responses are knee jerk on a subject that isn't real in my country except in racists heads.  And the 9-11 fiasco was not muslim terrorists alone, if it were they would have bombed the white house or all the government buildings in every state.   We will never know the real story of that attack but it wasn't muslim terrorists because we didn't hear any shouting of Allahu Akbar and no one claimed responsibility, all of that was done by the government laying blame.