Why do Palestinians accept Hammas leadership

[qxcontinuum]

I know this might seem like a strange question, but the country has been devastated by a criminal organization still in power, whose sole aim is to eradicate Israel and promote a radical religion which set people in medieval times. They’ve kept the population starving while investing billions in war-related infrastructure and weapons. The fact that they were chosen to lead Gaza suggests that a significant portion of the population shares a common agenda with Hamas, which includes terrorism and radical Islamic values. I have seen schools seeding anti Israel hate deep into the innocent children.

The issue is even more troubling when you consider that all parents and civilians  allow Hamas militants and operatives to set up camp near schools and civilian facilities, fully aware that the consequences could be dire and often deadly.

This begs the question: are they truly radicalized that they continue to support these terrorist elements? Does this also imply that many of the Palestinians I see in the western world displaying their flags and support for war are, by comparison, equally brainwashed and potentially ready to become militants themselves.

Jews and Palestinians have lived together for millennia, and they could continue to do so if they would just put an end to this national hatred. Israel respects Arabs, their language, and their religion—this conflict is clearly driven by an entrenched and manipulated hatred, nothing more.

Edited August 10 by qxcontinuum

[+Desertrat56]

Because they are living on the wrong side of APARTHEID!    

[papageorge1]

Quote

Why do Palestinians accept Hammas leadership

Good post. My first thought is that Hamas doesn't play nice with Palestinian opposition and is not guided by the principles of democracy. And now Hamas and the valid Palestinian concern have gotten joined as one in the western left.

I really think moderate Israelis and Palestinians can hammer out a two-state solution with compromises on both sides to end this thing. But not with Hamas in control.

 

[simplybill]

20 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Because they are living on the wrong side of APARTHEID!    

Gaza has been self-governing since 2005, when Israel completely withdrew from Gaza, so the word “Apartheid” isn’t applicable to the current situation. 
A wall similar to the one that separates Egypt from Gaza was erected in an attempt to prevent the ongoing suicide bombings and other terrorist acts committed by the Gazans, and the wall will remain, at least until the Gazans form a new government that isn’t dedicated to annihilating the Israelis.

[qxcontinuum]

46 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I really think moderate Israelis and Palestinians can hammer out a two-state solution with compromises on both sides to end this thing. But not with Hamas in control.

 

I think so too for as long moderate Palestinians still exist. It seems majority if not all, hate the state on Israel refusing to accept its existence. For as long this concept stays and it's prayed upon, there would never be peace and after all Palestinians have a lot to loose. They were never able to self manage themselves well. It is religion, it is Iran's influence, I dunno? Probably the latest.

Edited August 10 by qxcontinuum

[+DieChecker]

Why? Because of racial hatred from both sides. Along with generational indoctrination. Around 65%-70% of Gazans are under the age of 30. That means WAY over half have been indoctrinated in a HAMAS run school.

Theyve been told that HAMAS is them. HAMAS is their defender. HAMAS is the source of food, water, housing... 

Of course theyre going to support HAMAS. HAMAS has created an environment where there is seemingly no choice. And its partially Israel's fault for letting it happen.

[+Desertrat56]

1 hour ago, simplybill said:

Gaza has been self-governing since 2005, when Israel completely withdrew from Gaza, so the word “Apartheid” isn’t applicable to the current situation. 
A wall similar to the one that separates Egypt from Gaza was erected in an attempt to prevent the ongoing suicide bombings and other terrorist acts committed by the Gazans, and the wall will remain, at least until the Gazans form a new government that isn’t dedicated to annihilating the Israelis.

No, they are not self governing, they are overseen by Israel government and have no autonomy, it is Apartheid.   Israel is constantly moving Palestinians out of their homes, tearing a lot of them down and creating gated communities for Isralis in Palestinian land.   They are breaking international law every day.  This is n't about Gaza, it is about Gaza AND the West Bank.

As Israel carries out a devastating war on Gaza, settlers are exploiting the lack of global attention on the occupied West Bank to expel Palestinians from their land there.

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2024/7/19/how-israeli-settlements-are-taking-over-the-west-bank-as-gaza-war-rages

 

 

Edited August 10 by Desertrat56

[simplybill]

21 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

As Israel carries out a devastating war on Gaza, settlers are exploiting the lack of global attention on the occupied West Bank to expel Palestinians from their land there.

China recently negotiated a peace agreement between Hamas and Fatah, which is headquartered in the West Bank, in effect increasing Hamas’ ability to wage war against Israel.

Israel has a right to defend itself from Hamas and its allies.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatah

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/the-hamas-fatah-deal-is-part-of-china-s-global-south-leadership-bid/ar-AA1ok9TH

[Claira]

4 hours ago, qxcontinuum said:

I know this might seem like a strange question, but the country has been devastated by a criminal organization still in power, whose sole aim is to eradicate Israel and promote a radical religion which set people in medieval times. They’ve kept the population starving while investing billions in war-related infrastructure and weapons. The fact that they were chosen to lead Gaza suggests that a significant portion of the population shares a common agenda with Hamas, which includes terrorism and radical Islamic values. I have seen schools seeding anti Israel hate deep into the innocent children.

Hamas is hellbent on destroying Israel and establishing an Islamic state in all of historic Palestine (comprising present-day Israel, the West Bank and Gaza). Most Palestinians are aligned with Hamas' agenda in this regard. Palestinians repeatedly refused a two-state solution in the past because they wanted the whole kit and caboodle. It's difficult to gauge just how much local support Hamas actually has, but various polls indicate an increase in that support  after October 7. So make of that what you will. Interestingly, however, months later, many war-weary Palestinians are singing a different tune, pleading to be saved not from Israel, but from Hamas.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-814116

[Ell]

5 hours ago, qxcontinuum said:

Israel respects Arabs, their language, and their religion

No, they do not. Jews consider Muslims a heretic aberration.

 

Sociopaths (Hamas): natural leaders (Aristocracy).

Everybody else: slaves, followers and minions.

[qxcontinuum]

30 minutes ago, Ell said:

No, they do not. Jews consider Muslims a heretic aberration.

 

Sociopaths (Hamas): natural leaders (Aristocracy).

Everybody else: slaves, followers and minions.

I think you're misinformed. Israel have set up Muslim schools and Arabic  happens to also be the second official language in Israel. There are also Muslim communities living together in israel reason of why also many Muslim soldiers are on idf. 

Edited August 10 by qxcontinuum

[+and-then]

14 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

Because they are living on the wrong side of APARTHEID!    

Is that why the vast majority of Israeli Arabs stay in Israel?  The idea that there is true Apartheid in Israel is utter rubbish, driven by hatred of Israel.  South Africa is the world's greatest example of true Apartheid.  Care to cite how many black South Africans were allowed to vote, accepted in the armed forces, given positions on their supreme court, and were able to hold any employment that white South Africans could hold?  ALL of the above are available right now, to Arab Israelis.  The claim of Apartheid is either based in ignorance or willingness to repeat obvious lies.

[Claira]

I mentioned earlier in this discussion how Palestinians are increasingly voicing frustration with Hamas and of how the terror group is losing the support of people in Gaza who are paying the human price of its war. Life under Hamas' rule has not been easy for Palestinians, and many now long for an end to the current war and a change in internal governance.

 

[CrimsonKing]

7 minutes ago, Claira said:

I mentioned earlier in this discussion how Palestinians are increasingly voicing frustration with Hamas and of how the terror group is losing the support of people in Gaza who are paying the human price of its war. Life under Hamas' rule has not been easy for Palestinians, and many now long for an end to the current war and a change in internal governance.

 

Do you or anyone you know in your country believe a new type of governance can ever exist in Gaza without dealing with Iran first?

[+and-then]

4 hours ago, Claira said:

Life under Hamas' rule has not been easy for Palestinians, and many now long for an end to the current war and a change in internal governance.

This video reinforces the fact that the global media is complicit in the suffering of Palestinians, by effectively covering for the evils that are done by Hamas.  IMO, they are as guilty of the blood of Palestinians and Israelis, as are Hamas members and supporters.

[Claira]

4 hours ago, CrimsonKing said:

Do you or anyone you know in your country believe a new type of governance can ever exist in Gaza without dealing with Iran first?

Good question. The short answer is yes and no, as the situation is far more complex than just Iran. I will give you a proper answer once I've had time to give your question some thought.

[Claira]

On 8/11/2024 at 12:46 PM, CrimsonKing said:

Do you or anyone you know in your country believe a new type of governance can ever exist in Gaza without dealing with Iran first?

My apologies for being fashionably late with the answer I promised.

If key players in the Middle East, alongside Israel and Palestine are able to reach a mutually agreed upon governance solution, then Iran will have no choice but to step in line. Easier said than done, however, as everyone in the Middle East has their own ideas and priorities.

As a brief example: 

Jordan prefers the PA over Hamas, but the PA has lost all credibility with Palestinians. Egypt is looking at a trilateral framework where it can establish relations with Israel, Hamas and the PA. As for the UAE, it's concerned about the fate of regional normalization with Israel as well as the prospects of merging Israel into regional and security infrastructure. They believe that a two-state solution is the only way to end the conflict, as does the rest of the Arab League. Iran, unsurprisingly, totally rejects a two-state solution. They want one state — the state of Palestine.

Iran is quite unpopular in the Arab and Muslim world (thanks to its nuclear program as well as its policies in places such as Syria, and the Arab Gulf Region). The fact that it and its terror proxies are contributing to the destabilization of the region hasn't gone unnoticed either.

Does it have to be dealt with first? The sooner everyone can agree on a plan going forward with Gaza, the better. If Iran continues to pose a threat to the stability of the region, then all eyes and weapons will be on them. In the meantime, all Israel can do is take Iran and its proxies it a day at a time.

[CrimsonKing]

18 minutes ago, Claira said:

My apologies for being fashionably late with the answer I promised.

If key players in the Middle East, alongside Israel and Palestine are able to reach a mutually agreed upon governance solution, then Iran will have no choice but to step in line. Easier said than done, however, as everyone in the Middle East has their own ideas and priorities.

As a brief example: 

Jordan prefers the PA over Hamas, but the PA has lost all credibility with Palestinians. Egypt is looking at a trilateral framework where it can establish relations with Israel, Hamas and the PA. As for the UAE, it's concerned about the fate of regional normalization with Israel as well as the prospects of merging Israel into regional and security infrastructure. They believe that a two-state solution is the only way to end the conflict, as does the rest of the Arab League. Iran, unsurprisingly, totally rejects a two-state solution. They want one state — the state of Palestine.

Iran is quite unpopular in the Arab and Muslim world (thanks to its nuclear program as well as its policies in places such as Syria, and the Arab Gulf Region). The fact that it and its terror proxies are contributing to the destabilization of the region hasn't gone unnoticed either.

Does it have to be dealt with first? The sooner everyone can agree on a plan going forward with Gaza, the better. If Iran continues to pose a threat to the stability of the region, then all eyes and weapons will be on them. In the meantime, all Israel can do is take Iran and its proxies it a day at a time.

Thanks for taking the time...

They have no plans for any permanent peace,just waiting to try and see if the world will help them regroup and recover.

https://m.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-815206

 

[Claira]

4 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said:

Thanks for taking the time...

They have no plans for any permanent peace,just waiting to try and see if the world will help them regroup and recover.

https://m.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-815206

Oh gee, I wonder why Hamas wants control of the Netzarim and Philadelphi Corridors.

They're dreaming if they think we'll enable their return to power.

[+and-then]

35 minutes ago, Claira said:

Oh gee, I wonder why Hamas wants control of the Netzarim and Philadelphi Corridors.

They're dreaming if they think we'll enable their return to power.

I don't think they've grasped that they were way too "successful" on October 7th and they changed the game forever, and not in their favor.

[+Liquid Gardens]

On 8/11/2024 at 12:40 AM, and-then said:

The claim of Apartheid is either based in ignorance or willingness to repeat obvious lies.

Or you're just conflating 'Apartheid', as in what happened in South Africa, and 'apartheid' as defined by the ICC and UN. 

Edited August 18 by Liquid Gardens

[Claira]

1 hour ago, and-then said:

I don't think they've grasped that they were way too "successful" on October 7th and they changed the game forever, and not in their favor.

If you haven't already read the following article, it's worth a glance. An interesting point it makes is how some Hamas leaders now view themselves as statesmen and politicians. Hilarious when you think about it. The fact of the matter is, the only reason negotiations are taking place is because of the hostages. Hamas would never be given a place at the table, nor the time of day for that matter.

https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-814950

[Claira]

1 hour ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Or you're just conflating 'Apartheid', as in what happened in South Africa, and 'apartheid' as defined by the ICC and UN. 

Are people still on about this apartheid thing? Very well then. Why not start off the discussion by explaining why you think the ICC/UN definition applies to Israel and I'll be happy to clear up a few things for you.

Edited August 18 by Claira
Typographical errors.

[Claira]

2 hours ago, CrimsonKing said:

They have no plans for any permanent peace,just waiting to try and see if the world will help them regroup and recover.

https://m.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-815206

The IDF has presented various options for solving the issue of the Philadelphi Corridor:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-said-to-demand-international-presence-at-rafah-border-crossing/

[+and-then]

7 hours ago, Claira said:

The IDF has presented various options for solving the issue of the Philadelphi Corridor:

I hate to be a downer on the topic but if anyone other than the IDF controls that border, Hamas or some newly-named incarnation of the same spirit will rise again in Gaza.