PROOF: Judeo-Christian Bible Inspired of God

[Ell]

So she is one of them brainwashed religious fanatics that were denied a room and bed in a psychiatric institution?

[Rlyeh]

9 hours ago, Alter2Ego said:

Guyver:

I suggest you write a letter to the Almighty and ask him yourself.  Go ahead and do that; then come back and tell the rest of us what you were told; okay?

Have you asked Ted Bundy if he is evil?

[Piney]

1 hour ago, eight bits said:

Part of establishing that a post is preaching is to find it verbatim at other forums. I have found the OP of this thread verbatim, same user name, same avatar image on three other forums:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/137/religion-god-theology/proof-judeo-christian-bible-inspired-god-1794499/

https://justplainpolitics.com/threads/proof-judeo-christian-bible-inspired-of-god.217913/

https://perspectives.com/proof-judeo-christian-bible-inspired-of-god-t65672.html

I said that when she first appeared again she was trolling science and even trading forums. 

And did you notice she just jumped on me for "following her". 

[Piney]

1 hour ago, Piney said:

I said that when she first appeared again she was trolling science and even trading forums. 

And did you notice she just jumped on me for "following her". 

Another trait of....... @eight bits

Like I said on the phone. 🤪

[+Desertrat56]

13 hours ago, Alter2Ego said:

Guyver:

I suggest you write a letter to the Almighty and ask him yourself.  Go ahead and do that; then come back and tell the rest of us what you were told; okay?

What a weird suggestion?   Does your "Almighty" have a mail box?   How much postage would that take?

[+Desertrat56]

12 hours ago, Alter2Ego said:

  

zep73 and Guyver:

None of your comments change the fact that both Job and the prophet Isaiah wrote (by inspiration of Jehovah) that earth, when viewed from above, is circular and appears to hang upon nothing.  It was not until the 20th century, more than 2,500 years after the inspired writings of Job and Isaiah, that astronauts in space looked down from above and confirmed the exact descriptions given by Job and Isaiah.

 

Deal with that. 

Are you another Jehova's Witness wasting your time trying to tell us we are all going to burn in your hell?   

[Guyver]

9 hours ago, Djedi said:

Hi Guyver,

In another thread, she couldn't / wouldn't do this either, she just makes bold statements but can't back them up. IOW she's just preaching and isn't really interested / capable of discussing anything, she just spouts JW doctrine. 

She asked to provide evidence for prophecies that have been debunked, not understanding that she makes the extraordinary claim (that prophecies have been fulfilled and proven by "secular history") and needs to provide evidence for this.

 

It sounds like what you’re saying is that this thread is about as fake as the CGI graphics from Lake Placid II.

[Guyver]

1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

Are you another Jehova's Witness wasting your time trying to tell us we are all going to burn in your hell?   

The JW’s are trying to offer a more civil and less barbaric version of it.  They believe in “soul sleep” and don’t think that many people are going to fry in the flames of fire.  So, anyway…

[qxcontinuum]

20 hours ago, Ell said:

Indeed.

Yet what he describes is so far beyond the comprehension of ordinary people (including Bible scholars) that it might as well have been written in Chinese.

Live, work and be happy; and do not torment oneself trying to comprehend what people millennia ago wrote.

Furthermore Enoch is trying to describe things he saw, likely technologies that he had no words or understanding for at a time, the most advanced invention was the wheel. 

I have asked chatGPT to describe a TV as seen by someone who lived 8,000 years ago. Here's the reply 😀

Behold, within the dwelling stands a peculiar flat stone, yet it is not stone. Its surface is dark like the depths of a still pond at night, smooth and without blemish. Suddenly, with the touch of a hand upon a small object, the dark surface awakens. 

Images appear, vibrant and moving, like spirits dancing upon the surface. They depict creatures, people, and places, some familiar, others beyond imagination. Sounds emanate from it, voices and melodies as if a chorus of unseen beings reside within.

It is as if a window has opened to distant lands and tales, yet the air remains still, and no scent accompanies the visions. The box itself is slender, standing upon a base, with no fire or water to animate it. It draws life from a thin vine that connects it to the well, perhaps channeling the essence of the earth or life.

Edited August 13 by qxcontinuum

[+Desertrat56]

21 hours ago, Guyver said:

The JW’s are trying to offer a more civil and less barbaric version of it.  They believe in “soul sleep” and don’t think that many people are going to fry in the flames of fire.  So, anyway…

Thanks.  I never took time to ask them what they believe as it was annoying just for them to knock on my door and get upset when I told them the world would not spin if everyone believed the exact same things.   I was trying  to find a kind way to get them to quit bothering me.  (that term "God Botherer" is appropriate for so many people, including my brother who has me on his prayer list at the baptist church)

[Piney]

7 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

Thanks.  I never took time to ask them what they believe as it was annoying just for them to knock on my door and get upset when I told them the world would not spin if everyone believed the exact same things.   I was trying  to find a kind way to get them to quit bothering me.  (that term "God Botherer" is appropriate for so many people, including my brother who has me on his prayer list at the baptist church)

 

On 8/12/2024 at 12:25 PM, Guyver said:

The JW’s are trying to offer a more civil and less barbaric version of it.  They believe in “soul sleep” and don’t think that many people are going to fry in the flames of fire.  So, anyway…

Soul Sleep is a Millerite teaching of both the JWs and the SDAs but that's only for souls that are saved.

They both believe a "sinner's" soul is destroyed. 

[Alchopwn]

On 8/12/2024 at 3:30 AM, Alter2Ego said:

Alchopwn:

The earth is actually spherical, true.  But the "huge problem" for you is that although a sphere is not a two-dimensional solid like a circle, it can be thought of as a three-dimensional version of a circle.  Simply put, a circle is a round, two-dimensional solid and a sphere is is a round, three-dimensional solid.  

 

What Is A Sphere?

What Is A Sphere? : A sphere is a three-dimensional geometric shape similar to a circle. The only major difference is that the circle is in the 2D plane and the sphere is in the 3D plane. It is defined as the locus of all the points in 3D. They are at an equal distance from a fixed point called the centre. The diameter is a line that passes through the centre of the sphere and touches both points of the sphere. 

https://www.pw.live/exams/jee/difference-between-circle-and-sphere/

https://mathigon.org/course/circles/spheres-cones-cylinders

I am very aware of what the differences between spheres and circles.  The planet Earth is actually neither of these things.  Earth, and indeed most planets, are oblate spheroids, as any REAL cosmic deity should know and relate to their worshippers in their holy scriptures.

[Piney]

On 8/12/2024 at 9:02 PM, qxcontinuum said:

Furthermore Enoch is trying to describe things he saw, likely technologies that he had no words or understanding for at a time, the most advanced invention was the wheel. 

I have asked chatGPT to describe a TV as seen by someone who lived 8,000 years ago. Here's the reply 😀

Behold, within the dwelling stands a peculiar flat stone, yet it is not stone. Its surface is dark like the depths of a still pond at night, smooth and without blemish. Suddenly, with the touch of a hand upon a small object, the dark surface awakens. 

Images appear, vibrant and moving, like spirits dancing upon the surface. They depict creatures, people, and places, some familiar, others beyond imagination. Sounds emanate from it, voices and melodies as if a chorus of unseen beings reside within.

It is as if a window has opened to distant lands and tales, yet the air remains still, and no scent accompanies the visions. The box itself is slender, standing upon a base, with no fire or water to animate it. It draws life from a thin vine that connects it to the well, perhaps channeling the essence of the earth or life.

The Book of Enoch was composed about 250 BC and chapters were added by many authors up until about 150 BC and the Alexandrian Greeks had all kinds of wonderful  mechanical devices at that time. 

So no, the most advanced invention wasn't the wheel. 

[+Liquid Gardens]

7 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

Earth, and indeed most planets, are oblate spheroids, as any REAL cosmic deity should know and relate to their worshippers in their holy scriptures.

To be fair and cut to the chase we could just say that there is no such thing as a sphere, they are all imperfect. Earth's equatorial bulge is pretty small relative to its diameter, a deformity that isn't perceptible by our eyes when looking at similarly proportioned 'spheroids'.  As far as what a real cosmic deity would supposedly do, although this spheroid issue might not be a good example I think there is some logic behind Star Trek's Prime Directive and the damage violating it could cause, so not sure if we have much basis for guessing what a real deity 'should' do.

[qxcontinuum]

On 8/14/2024 at 8:31 AM, Piney said:

The Book of Enoch was composed about 250 BC and chapters were added by many authors up until about 150 BC and the Alexandrian Greeks had all kinds of wonderful  mechanical devices at that time. 

So no, the most advanced invention wasn't the wheel. 

It’s clear that the official writings or accounts of Enoch’s visions couldn’t have been written as late as 300 BC, given that Enoch is believed to have lived thousands of years earlier. There are missing elements that humanity has lost over time, which could have bridged the gap between the eras before and after the Great Flood.

There is no definitive proof that the writings in the *Book of Enoch* were taken from sources predating the Great Flood. The *Book of Enoch* is generally considered a work of religious literature rather than a historical document, and much of its content is symbolic or visionary in nature.

" However, the *Book of Enoch* and similar ancient texts often contain themes, motifs, and myths that were common in ancient Near Eastern cultures. These elements may reflect much older oral traditions or myths that existed long before the book was written. For example, the story of the Watchers and their offspring, the Nephilim, bears similarities to other ancient myths, such as the Mesopotamian tales of divine beings interacting with humans.

Some scholars suggest that the *Book of Enoch* could have drawn from these older traditions or stories, possibly preserving fragments of ancient myths that were passed down through generations. However, this remains speculative, and there is no concrete evidence to confirm that the writings were directly derived from pre-flood sources."

[cormac mac airt]

55 minutes ago, qxcontinuum said:

It’s clear that the official writings or accounts of Enoch’s visions couldn’t have been written as late as 300 BC, given that Enoch is believed to have lived thousands of years earlier. There are missing elements that humanity has lost over time, which could have bridged the gap between the eras before and after the Great Flood.

Actually it’s not remotely clear as there is no verifiable evidence that Enoch existed, nor that he did so thousands of years prior. Just because the Bible contains an alleged genealogy doesn’t make it true and the extant textual evidence for the Book of Enoch cannot be placed before the last half of the 1st millennium BC. 
 

cormac

[qxcontinuum]

10 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

Actually it’s not remotely clear as there is no verifiable evidence that Enoch existed, nor that he did so thousands of years prior. Just because the Bible contains an alleged genealogy doesn’t make it true and the extant textual evidence for the Book of Enoch cannot be placed before the last half of the 1st millennium BC. 
 

cormac

From a religious standpoint, particularly from the church's perspective, it might have been more convenient if Enoch had never existed. The stories and writings about his life present some challenging ideas. His book was not included in the official canon of the Bible and is considered apocryphal. Moreover, the few references to Enoch in the Bible highlight the unusual and potentially inconvenient fact that he did not die but was taken up to heaven in the flesh—perhaps the first narrative resembling an alien abduction.

Enoch "walked with God: and he was no more; for God took him" (Gen 5:21–24), which is interpreted as Enoch entering heaven alive in some Jewish and Christian traditions

I believe Enoch was as real as you and me, and the ancient church simply couldn’t erase him from history. The fact they tried is enough proof that he did. 

Edited August 16 by qxcontinuum

[Guyver]

12 hours ago, qxcontinuum said:

It’s clear that the official writings or accounts of Enoch’s visions couldn’t have been written as late as 300 BC, given that Enoch is believed to have lived thousands of years earlier. There are missing elements that humanity has lost over time, which could have bridged the gap between the eras before and after the Great Flood.

There is no definitive proof that the writings in the *Book of Enoch* were taken from sources predating the Great Flood. The *Book of Enoch* is generally considered a work of religious literature rather than a historical document, and much of its content is symbolic or visionary in nature.

" However, the *Book of Enoch* and similar ancient texts often contain themes, motifs, and myths that were common in ancient Near Eastern cultures. These elements may reflect much older oral traditions or myths that existed long before the book was written. For example, the story of the Watchers and their offspring, the Nephilim, bears similarities to other ancient myths, such as the Mesopotamian tales of divine beings interacting with humans.

Some scholars suggest that the *Book of Enoch* could have drawn from these older traditions or stories, possibly preserving fragments of ancient myths that were passed down through generations. However, this remains speculative, and there is no concrete evidence to confirm that the writings were directly derived from pre-flood sources."

I thought the whole point was the actual Book of Enoch was lost.  There have been other books lost from the Bible, and the Bible itself testifies to the holy books having been lost, and not used for a long time, and then someone found the holy books and said “what are these?” I think it was Hezakiah?  He may have even torn his clothes over it?  I don’t recall at the moment.  The point being, many Bible books have been lost, and I thought Enoch was one, along with Jashur.

[qxcontinuum]

1 hour ago, Guyver said:

I thought the whole point was the actual Book of Enoch was lost.  There have been other books lost from the Bible, and the Bible itself testifies to the holy books having been lost, and not used for a long time, and then someone found the holy books and said “what are these?” I think it was Hezakiah?  He may have even torn his clothes over it?  I don’t recall at the moment.  The point being, many Bible books have been lost, and I thought Enoch was one, along with Jashur.

Thing is nothing gets entirely lost. For milenia people were speaking about historical events, passing them to generations from father to son, grandmother to daughter up to one who either writes these stories or makes music about. Ain't smoke without fire , an older saying that works just perfectly for religious writings .

Edited August 16 by qxcontinuum

[cormac mac airt]

2 hours ago, qxcontinuum said:

From a religious standpoint, particularly from the church's perspective, it might have been more convenient if Enoch had never existed. The stories and writings about his life present some challenging ideas. His book was not included in the official canon of the Bible and is considered apocryphal. Moreover, the few references to Enoch in the Bible highlight the unusual and potentially inconvenient fact that he did not die but was taken up to heaven in the flesh—perhaps the first narrative resembling an alien abduction.

Enoch "walked with God: and he was no more; for God took him" (Gen 5:21–24), which is interpreted as Enoch entering heaven alive in some Jewish and Christian traditions

I believe Enoch was as real as you and me, and the ancient church simply couldn’t erase him from history. The fact they tried is enough proof that he did. 

You can believe what you want but there is zero verifiable evidence that such is true. It’s more story than fact. 
 

cormac

[cormac mac airt]

8 minutes ago, qxcontinuum said:

Thing is nothing gets entirely lost. For milenia people were speaking about historical events, passing them to generations from father to son, grandmother to daughter up to one who either writes these stories or makes music about. Ain't smoke without fire , an older saying that works just perfectly for religious writings .

That doesn’t mean one is interpreting the fire correctly. 
 

cormac

[qxcontinuum]

25 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

You can believe what you want but there is zero verifiable evidence that such is true. It’s more story than fact. 
 

cormac

So it was Gilgamesh, until they've found his tomb...

[cormac mac airt]

15 minutes ago, qxcontinuum said:

So it was Gilgamesh, until they've found his tomb...

And yet have completely failed to provide any archaeological evidence that such is true. A claim doesn't become fact just because someone makes it. So what verifiable evidence do you have that such is true? 

cormac

[Piney]

7 hours ago, qxcontinuum said:

So it was Gilgamesh, until they've found his tomb...

????? 

[+Hammerclaw]

Lions and Tigers and Bears! Oh My!

Edited August 16 by Hammerclaw