Imane Khelif’s Trainer Confirms Claims About XY Chromosomes and High Testosterone

[MrAnderson]

https://www.realityslaststand.com/p/breaking-imane-khelifs-trainer-confirms

 

About the author of this article

Dr Colin Wright is the Founding Editor of Reality’s Last Stand, an evolutionary biology PhD, Manhattan Institute Fellow, and a member of The Killarney Group, the world’s leading think-tank on sex and gender.

Quote

However, while the IBA is prohibited from disclosing private medical test results, one of Khelif’s trainers appears to have just spilled the beans in a new interview with the French magazine Le Point.

 

Another source

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/olympics/article-13733607/Imane-Khelif-gender-boxer-olympics-chromosomes.html

Quote

Now her coach, Georges Cazorla, has confirmed that the tests identified 'a problem with hormones' and 'with chromosomes', suggesting that she may have the XY gender chromosomes typical of a man.

'This poor young girl was devastated, devastated to suddenly discover that she might not be a girl,' he told French magazine Le Point

The obvious question is should both of these athletes take a DNA test and reveal the results straight away to preserve the integrity of the sport they participate as well as to ensure fairness.

If the tests show XY chromosomes should both athletes give their medals back?

Edited August 12 by MrAnderson

[Grim Reaper 6]

8 minutes ago, MrAnderson said:

https://www.realityslaststand.com/p/breaking-imane-khelifs-trainer-confirms

 

About the author of this article

Dr Colin Wright is the Founding Editor of Reality’s Last Stand, an evolutionary biology PhD, Manhattan Institute Fellow, and a member of The Killarney Group, the world’s leading think-tank on sex and gender.

 

It doesn’t say that, in fact that part of the interview is under a pay window that blocks access to the full article, do you have a different source?

[MrAnderson]

14 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

It doesn’t say that, in fact that part of the interview is under a pay window that blocks access to the full article, do you have a different source?

I ve included a second source and I see if I could find other sources.

From the dailymail and it's part of the OP

Quote

Now her coach, Georges Cazorla, has confirmed that the tests identified 'a problem with hormones' and 'with chromosomes', suggesting that she may have the XY gender chromosomes typical of a man.

'This poor young girl was devastated, devastated to suddenly discover that she might not be a girl,' he told French magazine Le Point

They (dailymail) too reference the French Magazine Le Point.

The author of the first article is an evolutionary biologist. You can read his article and I think there is more to it if you subscribe. Subscription is probably free but the main point is why these athletes haven't come forward to show their tests and solve the mystery once and for all.

Edited August 12 by MrAnderson

[MrAnderson]

And another source here

https://www.ibtimes.sg/imane-khelifs-coach-admits-boxer-has-problem-chromosomes-after-she-won-gold-paris-olympics-75644

Imane Khelif's Coach Admits Boxer Has 'Problem With Chromosomes' After She Won Gold at Paris Olympics 2024

[Grim Reaper 6]

6 minutes ago, MrAnderson said:

I ve included a second source and I see if I could find other sources.

From the dailymail and it's part of the OP

They (dailymail) too reference the French Magazine Le Point.

The author of the first article is an evolutionary biologist. You can read his article and I think there is more to it if you subscribe. Subscription is probably free but the main point is why these athletes haven't come forward to show their tests and solve the mystery once and for all.

Thanks for the additional information and article that surely paints a different picture than the first thread on this subject did. I also think in situations like this the Olympic Committee should require DNA testing to prevent this from happening again in the future. That athlete should be disqualified and forced to return the Medal that was received, this is really a sad state of affairs and it needs to be rectified.

Thanks for your post.

[MrAnderson]

49 minutes ago, Grim Reaper 6 said:

Thanks for the additional information and article that surely paints a different picture than the first thread on this subject did. I also think in situations like this the Olympic Committee should require DNA testing to prevent this from happening again in the future. That athlete should be disqualified and forced to return the Medal that was received, this is really a sad state of affairs and it needs to be rectified.

Thanks for your post.

I have commented too in the other thread and even though posters have different opinions it was obvious that many didn't agree with the IOC's 'gender eligibility tests' because they are based on passports! It's scandalous.

The IBA is the International Boxing Association and responsible for boxing. The IOC is an organisation that shouldn't interfere with sporting organizations or tell them how they will assess their athletes.

This is an article on the press conference the IBA had a few days ago.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/olympics/boxing-officials-roll-into-paris-and-boldly-declare-two-fighters-are-male/news-story/7cb81bbecf6dc13960a8d9cd7911442a

 

What was clear was when Ioannis Filippatos, former chairman of the IBA’s medical committee, said “abnormalities” were detected in blood tests in 2022.

The two boxers were tested again in 2023 to confirm the initial findings, IBA officials said, and after that they were disqualified.

“The medical result, blood result, looks - and the laboratory says - that these boxers are male,” said Filippatos.

“The problem is that we have two blood exams with karyotype of male. This is the answer from the laboratory.”

Edited August 13 by MrAnderson

[Grim Reaper 6]

5 minutes ago, MrAnderson said:

I have commented too in the other thread and even though posters have different opinions it was obvious that many didn't agree with the IOC's 'gender eligibility tests' because they are based on passports! It's scandalous.

The IBA is the International Boxing Association and responsible for boxing. The IOC is an organisation that shouldn't interfere with sporting organizations or tell them how they will assess their athletes.

This is an article on the press conference the IBA had a few days ago.

Thanks for the additional information, I will check it out. But I do agree there were many different opinions on this situation because this information was not available, that may change in this thread.

Peace

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, MrAnderson said:

And another source here

https://www.ibtimes.sg/imane-khelifs-coach-admits-boxer-has-problem-chromosomes-after-she-won-gold-paris-olympics-75644

Imane Khelif's Coach Admits Boxer Has 'Problem With Chromosomes' After She Won Gold at Paris Olympics 2024

I think you are just a bully who never heard of a female boxer before the Olympics and you want something to be outraged about. 

People like you are the problem.

Did you have any issues about the nine bouts she lost to other women before her victory? Did anyone complain about her at Tokyo where she didn't get any medals? 

No.

The IBA and IOC fight regularly. 

 

SURPRISING FACT
The last time the IBA organized an Olympic boxing competition was during the Rio 2016 Summer Olympics. The IOC has criticized the association’s lack of financial transparency, the credibility of its boxing competitions and its governance. Some observers have also questioned the timing of Khelif's disqualification, which reportedly took place several days after Khelif had defeated a Russian boxer in the middle of the IBA's 2023 competition. Kremlev—a Russia native—is widely described as a Putin acquaintance, and the IBA has ties to Russia, though there's no direct evidence those factors are linked to the IBA's decision.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/antoniopequenoiv/2024/08/09/what-to-know-about-olympics-gender-debate-as-imane-khelif-faces-off-in-womens-boxing-final/

 

Khelif is a woman, who is not transgender, nor identifies as intersex, according to GLAAD and InterACT.

Khelif reportedly has differences of sexual development, known as DSDs, the organizations said in a Fact Sheet released Friday. Having DSD is not the same as being transgender.

Fact check: Imane Khelif is a woman

 

Khelif’s lawyer Nabil Boudi said the complaint was filed on Friday.

“The boxer Imane Khelif has decided to begin a new fight, a fight for justice, dignity and honour,” he said in a statement as he announced the complaint for “aggravated online harassment … [had been filed] to Paris prosecutors”.

“All that is being said about me on social media is immoral. I want to change the minds of people around the world,” Khelif said.

Algeria’s Imane Khelif files harassment case after gender row

 

I wish her well in her court cases and really hope she gets well compensated for the armchair bigots with nothing better to do than sit on fat asses and satisfy their hate on. 

[+and-then]

3 hours ago, MrAnderson said:

If the tests show XY chromosomes should both athletes give their medals back?

I wouldn't take their medals as long as the rules were followed in this case but I think the rules need looking at for the future.  These two were obviously built like males and especially in a sport like boxing, it's a travesty to allow that kind of advantage to take away the dreams of young women who have trained, sacrificed, and persevered for an entire career to have a chance at Olympic Gold.  

It would be interesting to see how these two athletes would compare or compete with males in the same or possibly a lighter, weight class.

[Setton]

8 hours ago, MrAnderson said:

Dr Colin Wright is the Founding Editor of Reality’s Last Stand, an evolutionary biology PhD, Manhattan Institute Fellow, and a member of The Killarney Group, the world’s leading think-tank on sex and gender.

Self-appointed.

And as the world's leading expert on gender and sex in boxing and journalistic integrity*, I say the entire article is fabricated.

 

*Also self appointed.

[MrAnderson]

14 minutes ago, Setton said:

Self-appointed.

And as the world's leading expert on gender and sex in boxing and journalistic integrity*, I say the entire article is fabricated.

 

*Also self appointed.

You can prove your statement that the article is fabricated (if you can).

But it goes beyond the article (whatever article is posted anywhere online).

Both of the athletes can take a DNA test and show that they are indeed biological women. It's easy and they will prove anyone else who has doubts wrong.

[MrAnderson]

6 hours ago, psyche101 said:

I think you are just a bully who never heard of a female boxer before the Olympics and you want something to be outraged about. 

People like you are the problem.

Did you have any issues about the nine bouts she lost to other women before her victory? Did anyone complain about her at Tokyo where she didn't get any medals? 

No.

The IBA and IOC fight regularly. 

 

SURPRISING FACT
The last time the IBA organized an Olympic boxing competition was during the Rio 2016 Summer Olympics. The IOC has criticized the association’s lack of financial transparency, the credibility of its boxing competitions and its governance. Some observers have also questioned the timing of Khelif's disqualification, which reportedly took place several days after Khelif had defeated a Russian boxer in the middle of the IBA's 2023 competition. Kremlev—a Russia native—is widely described as a Putin acquaintance, and the IBA has ties to Russia, though there's no direct evidence those factors are linked to the IBA's decision.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/antoniopequenoiv/2024/08/09/what-to-know-about-olympics-gender-debate-as-imane-khelif-faces-off-in-womens-boxing-final/

 

Khelif is a woman, who is not transgender, nor identifies as intersex, according to GLAAD and InterACT.

Khelif reportedly has differences of sexual development, known as DSDs, the organizations said in a Fact Sheet released Friday. Having DSD is not the same as being transgender.

Fact check: Imane Khelif is a woman

 

Khelif’s lawyer Nabil Boudi said the complaint was filed on Friday.

“The boxer Imane Khelif has decided to begin a new fight, a fight for justice, dignity and honour,” he said in a statement as he announced the complaint for “aggravated online harassment … [had been filed] to Paris prosecutors”.

“All that is being said about me on social media is immoral. I want to change the minds of people around the world,” Khelif said.

Algeria’s Imane Khelif files harassment case after gender row

 

I wish her well in her court cases and really hope she gets well compensated for the armchair bigots with nothing better to do than sit on fat asses and satisfy their hate on. 

To call someone a bully because they post an article who is written by an evolutionary biologist is beyond belief. There is no merit in your statement and personal attacks will not help the way you debate.

Politics and rivals between the IBA and the IOC are irrelevant with the conversation. Your long paragraph after your personal attack is just irrelevant with the conversation.

This is what the IBA has said in their press conference a few days ago. Link above.

 

"What was clear was when Ioannis Filippatos, former chairman of the IBA’s medical committee, said “abnormalities” were detected in blood tests in 2022.

The two boxers were tested again in 2023 to confirm the initial findings, IBA officials said, and after that they were disqualified.

“The medical result, blood result, looks - and the laboratory says - that these boxers are male,” said Filippatos.

“The problem is that we have two blood exams with karyotype of male. This is the answer from the laboratory.”

 

Clearly the burden of proof is on the athletes and not on the IBA that cannot release information relate to private and confidential medical records.

The two athletes can take a DNA test anytime they want and show they are females. The only way to show this is by showing you have XX chromosomes. If the test reveals they have XY chromosomes then they are male and hey shouldn't participate in women's boxing events.

 

Your 'fact check' article is from USAtoday. Where is the fact check? Do they have the DNA tests of the athlete? How did they come to the conclusion this person is female? If they have the results of these tests can you show them here?

Your article tries to politicalise the story but massively fails to do so. The person is not a transwoman. Better choose another source of information I would say.

Edited August 13 by MrAnderson

[MrAnderson]

4 hours ago, and-then said:

I wouldn't take their medals as long as the rules were followed in this case but I think the rules need looking at for the future.  These two were obviously built like males and especially in a sport like boxing, it's a travesty to allow that kind of advantage to take away the dreams of young women who have trained, sacrificed, and persevered for an entire career to have a chance at Olympic Gold.  

It would be interesting to see how these two athletes would compare or compete with males in the same or possibly a lighter, weight class.

 

If they have XY chromosomes their are males. Other female athletes will probably ask the IOC to put pressure in them to give back their medals and I suppose pressure will be applied by a number of athletes and organisations.

I take a guess that their performance will be very different if they were to compete in the male category. I can say with certainty that their rankings will be much lower.

[MrAnderson]

@psyche101

Dr Emma Hilton is a developmental biologist from the University of Manchester and describes what is a DSD and who is affected by disorders of sex development.

It's an hour interview but it's worth the effort of dedicating time to listen to what she says. Having a DSD doesn't make you the other gender as anyone could guess without being a biologist. But given her expertise it's best to get some valuable and useful information from an expert.

Here is the video. Here understanding is that these two athletes are males having an intersex condition. She has been interviewed a lot lately and her position is that males shouldn't take part in female sports.

 

[psyche101]

3 hours ago, MrAnderson said:

To call someone a bully because they post an article who is written by an evolutionary biologist is beyond belief. There is no merit in your statement and personal attacks will not help the way you debate.

It's exactly what you are. You are seeking out a discredited person from a discredited group to push an agenda. You're basically picking on her because she isn't a stunning beauty. You're a nasty person. Because of ignorant rants from people like yourself, these athletes have received non stop online hate and death threats. 

He is an academic advisor at SEGM..

When is the last time he contributed to evolutionary biology? Any papers? Awards? 

SEGM isn't recognised by any scientific community.

(SEGM) is a non-profit organization that is known for its opposition to gender-affirming care for transgender youth and for engaging in political lobbying. The group routinely cites the unproven concept of rapid-onset gender dysphoria and has falsely claimed that conversion therapy techniques are only practiced on the basis of sexual orientation rather than gender identity.[1] SEGM is often cited in anti-transgender legislation and court cases, sometimes filing court briefs.[2][1] It is not recognized as a scientific organization by the international medical community.[3][4][5]

3 hours ago, MrAnderson said:

Politics and rivals between the IBA and the IOC are irrelevant with the conversation. Your long paragraph after your personal attack is just irrelevant with the conversation.

This is what the IBA has said in their press conference a few days ago. Link above.

 

"What was clear was when Ioannis Filippatos, former chairman of the IBA’s medical committee, said “abnormalities” were detected in blood tests in 2022.

The two boxers were tested again in 2023 to confirm the initial findings, IBA officials said, and after that they were disqualified.

“The medical result, blood result, looks - and the laboratory says - that these boxers are male,” said Filippatos.

“The problem is that we have two blood exams with karyotype of male. This is the answer from the laboratory.”

 

Clearly the burden of proof is on the athletes and not on the IBA that cannot release information relate to private and confidential medical records.

The IBA is irrelevant. It was voted out with a no confidence vote 69:1 and the decision was backed in a court of law. This has been going on for years and was accused in 2016 of match fixing. It is irrelevant. It will never be part of the Olympics again. And it wasn't this year. 

The IOC has been fighting with IBA executives for years over numerous controversies, including allegations of bribery and match fixing at the 2016 Rio de Janeiro Olympics.

World boxing stands by the IOC.

“The IOC’s decision and the comments by its President make it clear that IBA will never again be allowed to organise a boxing tournament at the Olympic Games and that a new international federation — which is committed to delivering sporting integrity and operates according to the highest standards of governance, transparency and financial management — will inevitably be required to oversee future Olympic boxing tournaments,” World Boxing said in a statement following the vote.

“World Boxing supports this view and understands that being part of the Olympic Games is a privilege and not a right and is committed to working constructively and collaboratively with the IOC and all other stakeholders to develop a pathway that will preserve boxing’s long-term place on the Olympic program,” 

In addition to Khelif's court case I posted earlier against X, Taiwan is now getting ready to sue the IBA.

"The Chinese Taipei Olympic Committee has also appointed a lawyer to issue a warning letter to the IBA. It reserves the right to take recourse and will file a lawsuit if necessary."
The International Olympic Committee (IOC) has rejected the results of the IBA-ordered tests as arbitrary and illegitimate, saying there was no reason to conduct them.

https://www.reuters.com/sports/olympics/taiwan-considering-lawsuit-over-boxing-federations-gender-row-stance-2024-08-06/#:~:text=The boxing competition at Paris,ties to the Russian leadership.

The IBA is outright lying. They are not showing any results because they don't actually have any. This is a vengeance attack over beating Russian boxer Azalia Amineva. The IBAs ties to Russia aren't hidden. I'm sure you are aware of the connection.

3 hours ago, MrAnderson said:

The two athletes can take a DNA test anytime they want and show they are females. The only way to show this is by showing you have XX chromosomes. If the test reveals they have XY chromosomes then they are male and hey shouldn't participate in women's boxing events.

No. I don't think they should take any other tests than any other athlete. You absolutely nobody to make demands of world class athletes. 

The IBA needs to pony up and show the documents it says it has in their possession. They made the accusation, the burden of proof is upon them at this point. There are no objections from Khelif. So what's the hold up? Let's see these alleged results. 

XY chromosomes do not prove that anyone is male. DSD is far more complex than that. You don't know what you're talking about. Again. 

Activation or inactivation of the SRY gene determines specific characteristics. 

Read up on Swyer syndrome.

3 hours ago, MrAnderson said:

Your 'fact check' article is from USAtoday. Where is the fact check? Do they have the DNA tests of the athlete? How did they come to the conclusion this person is female? If they have the results of these tests can you show them here?

From her personal history and personal identification. In light of the disgraceful actions of the hate groups, her father has shown documents showing she was born female.

Boxer Imane Khelif's Father Shares Document That Says Algerian Olympian Was Born Female

 

3 hours ago, MrAnderson said:

Your article tries to politicalise the story but massively fails to do so. The person is not a transwoman. Better choose another source of information I would say.

Then why are prominent idiots saying she is? 

This outright lie by none other than American influencer, Donald Trump.

I would like to congratulate the young woman who has evolved from a man to a woman. He... She won gold,' 

That alone will be regurgitated by millions of uneducated people.

You have plenty of sources to choose from in this post. For goodness sake. Educate yourself and stop picking on girls. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. She is only five foot ten and under sixty kilos. Small by any standard.

[MrAnderson]

2 hours ago, psyche101 said:

It's exactly what you are. You are seeking out a discredited person from a discredited group to push an agenda. You're basically picking on her because she isn't a stunning beauty. You're a nasty person. Because of ignorant rants from people like yourself, these athletes have received non stop online hate and death threats. 

He is an academic advisor at SEGM..

When is the last time he contributed to evolutionary biology? Any papers? Awards? 

SEGM isn't recognised by any scientific community.

(SEGM) is a non-profit organization that is known for its opposition to gender-affirming care for transgender youth and for engaging in political lobbying. The group routinely cites the unproven concept of rapid-onset gender dysphoria and has falsely claimed that conversion therapy techniques are only practiced on the basis of sexual orientation rather than gender identity.[1] SEGM is often cited in anti-transgender legislation and court cases, sometimes filing court briefs.[2][1] It is not recognized as a scientific organization by the international medical community.[3][4][5]

The IBA is irrelevant. It was voted out with a no confidence vote 69:1 and the decision was backed in a court of law. This has been going on for years and was accused in 2016 of match fixing. It is irrelevant. It will never be part of the Olympics again. And it wasn't this year. 

The IOC has been fighting with IBA executives for years over numerous controversies, including allegations of bribery and match fixing at the 2016 Rio de Janeiro Olympics.

World boxing stands by the IOC.

“The IOC’s decision and the comments by its President make it clear that IBA will never again be allowed to organise a boxing tournament at the Olympic Games and that a new international federation — which is committed to delivering sporting integrity and operates according to the highest standards of governance, transparency and financial management — will inevitably be required to oversee future Olympic boxing tournaments,” World Boxing said in a statement following the vote.

“World Boxing supports this view and understands that being part of the Olympic Games is a privilege and not a right and is committed to working constructively and collaboratively with the IOC and all other stakeholders to develop a pathway that will preserve boxing’s long-term place on the Olympic program,” 

In addition to Khelif's court case I posted earlier against X, Taiwan is now getting ready to sue the IBA.

"The Chinese Taipei Olympic Committee has also appointed a lawyer to issue a warning letter to the IBA. It reserves the right to take recourse and will file a lawsuit if necessary."
The International Olympic Committee (IOC) has rejected the results of the IBA-ordered tests as arbitrary and illegitimate, saying there was no reason to conduct them.

https://www.reuters.com/sports/olympics/taiwan-considering-lawsuit-over-boxing-federations-gender-row-stance-2024-08-06/#:~:text=The boxing competition at Paris,ties to the Russian leadership.

The IBA is outright lying. They are not showing any results because they don't actually have any. This is a vengeance attack over beating Russian boxer Azalia Amineva. The IBAs ties to Russia aren't hidden. I'm sure you are aware of the connection.

No. I don't think they should take any other tests than any other athlete. You absolutely nobody to make demands of world class athletes. 

The IBA needs to pony up and show the documents it says it has in their possession. They made the accusation, the burden of proof is upon them at this point. There are no objections from Khelif. So what's the hold up? Let's see these alleged results. 

XY chromosomes do not prove that anyone is male. DSD is far more complex than that. You don't know what you're talking about. Again. 

Activation or inactivation of the SRY gene determines specific characteristics. 

Read up on Swyer syndrome.

From her personal history and personal identification. In light of the disgraceful actions of the hate groups, her father has shown documents showing she was born female.

Boxer Imane Khelif's Father Shares Document That Says Algerian Olympian Was Born Female

 

Then why are prominent idiots saying she is? 

This outright lie by none other than American influencer, Donald Trump.

I would like to congratulate the young woman who has evolved from a man to a woman. He... She won gold,' 

That alone will be regurgitated by millions of uneducated people.

You have plenty of sources to choose from in this post. For goodness sake. Educate yourself and stop picking on girls. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. She is only five foot ten and under sixty kilos. Small by any standard.

Word salad and nothing much offered that addresses the point apart from personal attacks and trying to argue that the IBA is a discredited organization and they are rivals with the IOC.

Better look at the IOC which decides what gender you are based on your passport and not on DNA tests or any other tests.

If you are not convinced yet then take a look at the links I have provided. One is from an evolutionary biologist and the other from a developmental biologist who knows a lot on disorders of sex development.

The only way to show if you are male or female is though a DNA test and the chromosomes you have. If you say the XY chromosomes don't prove someone is male you need to retake basic school biology. An XY intersex  individual is still a male with a developmental disorder.

The IBA has shared the results of the tests of these athletes with the IOC and is not going to publish them because medical records are private and confidential and they are not available for public display. I thought some common sense should be used here.

Both athletes have been barred from taking part in the World Championships last year. They didn't appeal the decision. We can only assume that they didn't appeal against the decision because they accepted the results of these tests. The problem can be easily solved if the two athletes take a test right now and prove once and for all that they are female. They also had plenty of time since last year's World Championship to take the tests but they didn't do it. I wonder why.

If you think that you are an expert because you claimed that XY chromosomes don't prove you are a male then you can have a conversation with Dr Colin Wright or Dr Emma Hilton. I am sure you can defend your claim well... Perhaps you can adopt the position of the IOC which determines gender based on passports.

From the OP

Quote

Now her coach, Georges Cazorla, has confirmed that the tests identified 'a problem with hormones' and 'with chromosomes', suggesting that she may have the XY gender chromosomes typical of a man.

 

Edited August 13 by MrAnderson

[psyche101]

11 hours ago, MrAnderson said:

Word salad and nothing much offered that addresses the point apart from personal attacks and trying to argue that the IBA is a discredited organization and they are rivals with the IOC.

You are an embarrassment to yourself and your reading skills are clearly compromised. You deserve the worst reception. You are a bully that picks on girls. Disgusting. 

11 hours ago, MrAnderson said:

Better look at the IOC which decides what gender you are based on your passport and not on DNA tests or any other tests.

You better look at the IOC. They have disassociated the IBA from the Olympic Games permanently. The IBA you keep harping on about have no say in this competition. They are simply viewers like anyone else. 

11 hours ago, MrAnderson said:

If you are not convinced yet then take a look at the links I have provided. One is from an evolutionary biologist and the other from a developmental biologist who knows a lot on disorders of sex development.

You look at them 

You have provided the opinion of talentless hacks from openly biased political movements not recognised by the scientific community. Your references are pure garbage. 

11 hours ago, MrAnderson said:

The only way to show if you are male or female is though a DNA test and the chromosomes you have. If you say the XY chromosomes don't prove someone is male you need to retake basic school biology. An XY intersex  individual is still a male with a developmental disorder.

You need to educate yourself. Start with the links I left on DSD and Sweyer Syndrome. Your deliberate ignorance is astounding. 

11 hours ago, MrAnderson said:

The IBA has shared the results of the tests of these athletes with the IOC and is not going to publish them because medical records are private and confidential and they are not available for public display. I thought some common sense should be used here.

You are simply lying.

Because you are not a nice person who picks on girls. 

Post the results. I dare you. Not a verbal, the actual results.

You cannot because they do not actually exist. You are lying to promote bigotry. 

11 hours ago, MrAnderson said:

Both athletes have been barred from taking part in the World Championships last year. They didn't appeal the decision. We can only assume that they didn't appeal against the decision because they accepted the results of these tests. The problem can be easily solved if the two athletes take a test right now and prove once and for all that they are female. They also had plenty of time since last year's World Championship to take the tests but they didn't do it. I wonder why.

That's just another lie from you. You lie a lot don't you.

They won bouts in 2023. The crooked IBA made derogatory announcements after they had been awarded medals and they retained them. 

The IBA is discredited. 

11 hours ago, MrAnderson said:

If you think that you are an expert because you claimed that XY chromosomes don't prove you are a male then you can have a conversation with Dr Colin Wright or Dr Emma Hilton. I am sure you can defend your claim well... Perhaps you can adopt the position of the IOC which determines gender based on passports.

From the OP

 

Can you invite them to the forum then? I would like to address those sham fakers and I would love to see the astute posters here make mincemeat of those two. 

SEGM is an independent unrecognised politically affiliated conservative opinion group. 

They are s disgrace. SEGM is a disgrace. IBA is I baked out and discredited. 

You have sunk to the bottom of the barrell trying to defend the undefendable. You should be ashamed of yourself associating with hacks. 

[MrAnderson]

5 hours ago, psyche101 said:

You are an embarrassment to yourself and your reading skills are clearly compromised. You deserve the worst reception. You are a bully that picks on girls. Disgusting. 

You better look at the IOC. They have disassociated the IBA from the Olympic Games permanently. The IBA you keep harping on about have no say in this competition. They are simply viewers like anyone else. 

You look at them 

You have provided the opinion of talentless hacks from openly biased political movements not recognised by the scientific community. Your references are pure garbage. 

You need to educate yourself. Start with the links I left on DSD and Sweyer Syndrome. Your deliberate ignorance is astounding. 

You are simply lying.

Because you are not a nice person who picks on girls. 

Post the results. I dare you. Not a verbal, the actual results.

You cannot because they do not actually exist. You are lying to promote bigotry. 

That's just another lie from you. You lie a lot don't you.

They won bouts in 2023. The crooked IBA made derogatory announcements after they had been awarded medals and they retained them. 

The IBA is discredited. 

Can you invite them to the forum then? I would like to address those sham fakers and I would love to see the astute posters here make mincemeat of those two. 

SEGM is an independent unrecognised politically affiliated conservative opinion group. 

They are s disgrace. SEGM is a disgrace. IBA is I baked out and discredited. 

You have sunk to the bottom of the barrell trying to defend the undefendable. You should be ashamed of yourself associating with hacks. 

You have just repeated here what you said earlier without anything new other than personal opinion and personal attacks. You are not convincing at all. All you do is to weaken further the position of those who say without any evidence these two athletes should be taking part in female sports.

Clearly there is an issue with these two athletes as raised by the IBA and many others who had a look at their cases. The two athletes have been barred last year from the World Championships because they failed their gender tests. Which suggests their results did show XY chromosomes and so it suggests these are male athletes.

They didn't go against this decision and didn't make an appeal. That's very damming for their position. And we can all speculate why they didn't appeal but the obvious answer is they didn't want to take further DNA tests or any other tests available because they didn't want to reveal what chromosomes they have.

Here is another video from Dr Colin Wright explaining what DSDs are

Dr Wright explains what is 5-Alpha reductase deficiency which is suspected that these two athletes have.

https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/5-alpha-reductase-deficiency/#:~:text=Description

Regardless of the condition that affects them the presence of the Y chromosome is the factor that should have made the IOC exclude them from female sports just as the IBA did a year ago. If they are XY individuals with DSDs they are still male. See video above and all the links I posted.

But the IOC has replaced biology as it seems with ideology as they don't have DNA tests anymore and they decide what gender the athlete is based on their passport. That is clearly outrageous and indefensible. Do you still want to defend the IOC?

 

Do you understand in what position you place yourself when you argue against the two scientists that I have linked their interviews above or when you say that the IBA hasn't provided any of these tests.

Medical records are private and confidential and not for public display. The two athletes didn't go against their ban on last year's World Championship which means they have accepted the results of their tests.

They have had all the time in the world to have further tests and show their female but they didn't and everyone wonders why. They can easily solve the controversy by having the appropriate DNA tests (even if they claim they never had any tests done before). Why do they avoid them? Do you have any good explanation?

Even if you claim there are no tests conducted how on earth the IOC let's athletes compete in any sports without knowing what is the biological sex of each athlete? They see what's on their passports as they said! That's brilliant! A new way to determine biological sex...

Edited August 14 by MrAnderson

[psyche101]

On 8/14/2024 at 7:42 AM, MrAnderson said:

You have just repeated here what you said earlier without anything new other than personal opinion and personal attacks. You are not convincing at all. All you do is to weaken further the position of those who say without any evidence these two athletes should be taking part in female sports.

And yet you didn't grado it or follow any links left for you. 

*snip*

On 8/14/2024 at 7:42 AM, MrAnderson said:

Clearly there is an issue with these two athletes as raised by the IBA and many others who had a look at their cases. The two athletes have been barred last year from the World Championships because they failed their gender tests. Whivh mean their results did show XY chromosomes and so these are male athletes.

Clearly there is not because the IBA was officially challenged by the IOC and lost the right to any say in the Olympics moving forward. 

They did not fail any tests. Post results or admit you are a liar. 

On 8/14/2024 at 7:42 AM, MrAnderson said:

They didn't go against this decision and didn't make an appeal. That's very damming for their position. And we call all speculate why they didn't appeal but the obvious answer is they didn't want to take further DNA tests or any other tests available.

There were no original DNA tests by anyone. 

The IBA said the tests revealed testosterone and then flipped and said it was a chromosome irregularity with no evidence whatsoever to support the claim. 

In sports, proof is required. Word of mouth isn't good enough.

On 8/14/2024 at 7:42 AM, MrAnderson said:

Here is another video from Dr Colin Wright explaining what DSDs are

Dr Wright explains what is 5-Alpha reductase deficiency which is suspected that these two athletes have.

https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/5-alpha-reductase-deficiency/#:~:text=Description

Regardless of the condition that affects them thre presence of the Y chromosome is the factor that should have made the IOC exclude them from female sports just as the IBA did a year ago. If they are XY individuals with DSDs they are still male. See video above and all the links I posted.

Stop with posting fraud hacks. You are wasting my time. I've well illustrated that SEGM has nothing to with the scientific community. 

You also forgot to post when Colin Wright actually last, or ever contributed to evolutionary biology. If one doesn't maintain their credentials they aren't practising professionals. It becomes opinion at that point. 

On 8/14/2024 at 7:42 AM, MrAnderson said:

But the IOC has replaced biology as it seems with ideology as they don't have DNA tests anymore and they decide what gender the athlete is based on their passport. That is clearly outrageous and indefensible. Do you still want to defend the IOC?

More lies.

The IOC has never used DNA testing. They have stopped nothing. 

A birth certificate is a legal form of identification anywhere in the world. Ho back and read the link about her father standing up for her and producing that evidence. 

On 8/14/2024 at 7:42 AM, MrAnderson said:

Do you understand in what position you place yourself when you argue against the two scientists that I have linked their interviews above or when you say that the IOC hasn't provided any of these tests.

Yes, do you understand how dumb you look when you quote hacks who are not recognised by the scientific community? You might as well post something from Uri Geller. 

On 8/14/2024 at 7:42 AM, MrAnderson said:

Medical records are private and confidential and not for public display. The two athletes didn't go against their ban on last year's World Championship which means they have accepted the results of their tests.

The athletes have given permission do your excuse for the IBA doesn't work. 

They retained their medals and were not banned by world federation boxing. Only the Russian controlled IBA.

A member of the IBA said Yu should be shot. That's the sort of disgusting and filthy people you ste supporting here. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

On 8/14/2024 at 7:42 AM, MrAnderson said:

They have had all the time in the world to have further tests and shoe their female but they didn't and everyone wonders why. They can easily solve the controversy by having the appropriate DNA tests. Why do they avoid them? Do you have any good explanation?

No. Not everyone winded why. *snip*

A passport and birth certificate are legal form of identification anywhere the world. 

On 8/14/2024 at 7:42 AM, MrAnderson said:

Even if you claim there are no tests conducted how on earth the IOC let's athletes compete in any sports without knowing what is the biological sex of each athlete? They see what's on their passports as they said! That's brilliant! A new way to determine biological sex...

You don't know sports at all do you. You are just a particularly nasty individual who looks for reasons to hate on people. 

Athletes exist outside of the Olympic Games believe it or not. They all report to sporting bodies that have extensive medical records. What is not brilliant is you. You are the complete opposite of brilliance. Nobody said anything when she lost the last nine bouts to other women. Nobody cared she lost the last Olympic Games. But you tout the disgraced SEGM and proven corrupt IBA with no actual information pushing bigoted rumours which have been shown to be incorrect. Get a life chump.

Edited August 19 by Saru
Removed personal attack

[psyche101]

And being the arrogant bully you are. You got the title wrong. 

The IBA said testosterone and flipped to XY chromosomes. 

You don't know what your talking about.

 

[Unusual Tournament]

23 hours ago, MrAnderson said:

 

If they have XY chromosomes their are males. Other female athletes will probably ask the IOC to put pressure in them to give back their medals and I suppose pressure will be applied by a number of athletes and organisations.

I take a guess that their performance will be very different if they were to compete in the male category. I can say with certainty that their rankings will be much lower.

She could be a hermaphrodite 🤔

[psyche101]

5 minutes ago, Unusual Tournament said:

She could be a hermaphrodite 🤔

Nope. 

Birth certificate is female.

Nobody actually knows if she has high testosterone or XY chromosomes. No actual tests have been done. She is not exactly a beauty queen and as far as I can tell, she is being picked on for that. 

[Unusual Tournament]

54 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Nope. 

Birth certificate is female.

Nobody actually knows if she has high testosterone or XY chromosomes. No actual tests have been done. She is not exactly a beauty queen and as far as I can tell, she is being picked on for that. 

Yeah it’s not her fault either way. So I’m a bit sympathetic with all the hate and innuendo she’s getting. She’s Algerian right? It’s a pretty conservative society, so maybe she’s a hermaphrodite and the doctors chose  a sex for her 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️

[MrAnderson]

3 hours ago, psyche101 said:

And yet you didn't grado it or follow any links left for you. 

You must be a poor example of a human being to pick on girls. 

Clearly there is not because the IBA was officially challenged by the IOC and lost the right to any say in the Olympics moving forward. 

They did not fail any tests. Post results or admit you are a liar. 

There were no original DNA tests by anyone. 

The IBA said the tests revealed testosterone and then flipped and said it was a chromosome irregularity with no evidence whatsoever to support the claim. 

In sports, proof is required. Word of mouth isn't good enough.

Stop with posting fraud hacks. You are wasting my time. I've well illustrated that SEGM has nothing to with the scientific community. 

You also forgot to post when Colin Wright actually last, or ever contributed to evolutionary biology. If one doesn't maintain their credentials they aren't practising professionals. It becomes opinion at that point. 

 

More lies.

The IOC has never used DNA testing. They have stopped nothing. 

A birth certificate is a legal form of identification anywhere in the world. Ho back and read the link about her father standing up for her and producing that evidence. 

Yes, do you understand how dumb you look when you quote hacks who are not recognised by the scientific community? You might as well post something from Uri Geller. 

The athletes have given permission do your excuse for the IBA doesn't work. 

They retained their medals and were not banned by world federation boxing. Only the Russian controlled IBA.

A member of the IBA said Yu should be shot. That's the sort of disgusting and filthy people you ste supporting here. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

No. Not everyone winded why. Only bigots who pick on girls like you do. 

A passport and birth certificate are legal form of identification anywhere the world. 

You don't know sports at all do you. You are just a particularly nasty individual who looks for reasons to hate on people. 

Athletes exist outside of the Olympic Games believe it or not. They all report to sporting bodies that have extensive medical records. What is not brilliant is you. You are the complete opposite of brilliance. Nobody said anything when she lost the last nine bouts to other women. Nobody cared she lost the last Olympic Games. But you tout the disgraced SEGM and proven corrupt IBA with no actual information pushing bigoted rumours which have been shown to be incorrect. Get a life chump.

Clearly you don't know much about how that IOC conducted itself all these years

"The International Olympic Committee abandoned genetic gender testing back at the 2000 Sydney Games for this very reason, after years of urging by actual scientists, including the American Society of Human Genetics."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/2024/08/09/olympic-boxing-gender-tests/

So no more genetic tests. That's wonderful isn't it?! Just see what is says on passport and determine biological sex this way, against basic science.

[MrAnderson]

2 hours ago, psyche101 said:

Nope. 

Birth certificate is female.

Nobody actually knows if she has high testosterone or XY chromosomes. No actual tests have been done. She is not exactly a beauty queen and as far as I can tell, she is being picked on for that. 

If nobody knows whether the person is male of female how did the IOC let both of these athletes take part in female competitions? The passport isn't enough to determine biological sex. Do you see what kind of argument are you making?