Jews were Exiles from Crete

[The Puzzler]

I just can’t get past this…“It is said that the Jews were originally exiles from the island of Crete who settled in the farthest parts of Libya at the time when Saturn had been deposed and expelled by Jove. An argument in favour of this is derived from the name: there is a famous mountain in Crete called Ida, and hence the inhabitants were called the Idaei, which was later lengthened into the barbarous form Iudaei.

https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Diodorus_Siculus/5B*.html

Edited August 25 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

Are we missing something here?

Exiled from Crete, settling in Libya…

 

 

Edited August 25 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

Were they part of the Libyan Sea People contingent?

Why was Pharaoh counting circumcised penises?

The farthest reaches of Libya…where?

The same place Perseus was flying to in his winged sandals..? Where Medusa was compromising her morals…

Via Aithiopia….another people who were circumcised…oh that was in Joppa, silly me.

Edited August 25 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

“Libya at the time when Saturn had been deposed and expelled by Jove.”

When was this mythological event?

[The Puzzler]

Why were they exiles from Crete?

The meaning of EXILE is the state or a period of forced absence from one's country or home. 

when Mycenaeans came?….

[Ell]

1 hour ago, The Puzzler said:

https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Diodorus_Siculus/5B*.html

I do not see anything about Jews.

The island may have been Atlantis.

[The Puzzler]

Now, for those familiar with Tacitus's Histories volume 5, his claim as to the origin of the Jews is pertinent:

Some say that the Jews were fugitives from the island of Crete, who settled on the nearest coast of Africa about the time when Saturn was driven from his throne by the power of Jupiter
 

Minoan endogamy discovered yesterday in light of Tacitus and the very odd emerging genomic history of the Ashkenazi

 

 

[The Puzzler]

3 minutes ago, Ell said:

I do not see anything about Jews.

The island may have been Atlantis.

In Drineas et al. Genetic history of the population of Crete it states:

In the PCA of Crete vs Europe, the Cretans overlap with three populations: the Peloponneseans, the Sicilians and the Ashkenazi Jews (see Figures 4a, S17, and S18). Southern European and Mediterranean ancestry of the Ashkenazi Jews has also been demonstrated before (Atzmon et al., 2010; Behar et al., 2010; Bauchet et al., 2007; Price et al., 2008; Seldin et al., 2006; Tian et al., 2008). Furthermore, we find in both PCA and ADMIXTURE analysis, that the Ashkenazi are more similar to the Cretans than to the two Levantine Semitic populations. One possible explanation is that this relation might reveal a common Mediterranean ancestry that the Cretan and Ashkenazi populations share.

[The Puzzler]

Furthermore, we find in both PCA and ADMIXTURE analysis, that the Ashkenazi are more similar to the Cretans than to the two Levantine Semitic populations. One possible explanation is that this relation might reveal a common Mediterranean ancestry that the Cretan and Ashkenazi populations share.
 

Athenaeus, The Deipnosophists 8.37).

So when we look at a story like Samson of Dan, with narrative features similar to the Aegean tales of Hercules, defeating a hundred people in Ashkelon and marrying a foreign woman - is this preserving an earlier story of a Semitic hero marrying an Aegean woman or of an Aegean conquerer marrying into the local population, exactly as we see in the genetics of Ashkelon in the early Iron Age? And if there were Aegean conquerors assimilating into the local Canaanite populations in Philistine cities, was this also happening to Israelites as well?

 

[The Puzzler]

Always the exiling, the persecution…this doesn’t seem an extraordinary situation for them, being exiled from Crete…in fact, it seems so normal and real, is why I believe it could have happened.

[The Puzzler]

35 minutes ago, Ell said:

I do not see anything about Jews.

The island may have been Atlantis.

It probably was Atlantis, in Plato’s eyes.

Plato was aware of the writings of the Bible when he composed it.

Hubris…always the hubris.

[The Puzzler]

“The more ancient evidence of Haplogroup K has been found in the remains of three individuals from Upper Palaeolithic Magdalenian of Spain 11,950 years ago”

“The origins of Ashkenazi Jews remain highly controversial. Like Judaism, mitochondrial DNA is passed along the maternal line. Its variation in the Ashkenazim is highly distinctive, with four major and numerous minor founders. However, due to their rarity in the general population, these founders have been difficult to trace to a source. Here we show that all four major founders, ~40% of Ashkenazi mtDNA variation, have ancestry in prehistoric Europe, rather than the Near East or Caucasus. Furthermore, most of the remaining minor founders share a similar deep European ancestry. Thus the great majority of Ashkenazi maternal lineages were not brought from the Levant, as commonly supposed, nor recruited in the Caucasus, as sometimes suggested, but assimilated within Europe. These results point to a significant role for the conversion of women in the formation of Ashkenazi communities, and provide the foundation for a detailed reconstruction of Ashkenazi genealogical history.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3806353/

 

[Ell]

49 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

Furthermore, we find in both PCA and ADMIXTURE analysis, that the Ashkenazi are more similar to the Cretans than to the two Levantine Semitic populations.

What is PCA?

Them Askenazi ancestors probably raped lots of Cretan females.

[The Puzzler]

Even the Grave Circles of Mycenae show 2 of 4 samples being K.

So, the question remains the same…..

Why were Jews exiled from Crete….and lobbed in Libya?

[The Puzzler]

6 minutes ago, Ell said:

What is PCA?

Them Askenazi ancestors probably raped lots of Cretan females.

I don’t think so. mtDNA K is a maternal line.

Edited August 25 by The Puzzler

[Kenemet]

2 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

I just can’t get past this…“It is said that the Jews were originally exiles from the island of Crete who settled in the farthest parts of Libya at the time when Saturn had been deposed and expelled by Jove. An argument in favour of this is derived from the name: there is a famous mountain in Crete called Ida, and hence the inhabitants were called the Idaei, which was later lengthened into the barbarous form Iudaei.

https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Diodorus_Siculus/5B*.html

Yes, you're missing that he says that gossip and traveler tales say there are four different origins for the Jews and none of them are from Jewish sources. 

None of the tales match each other and no tale matches the archaeological evidence or records from that time and none match what the Jews say about themselves.

 

[The Puzzler]

4 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

Yes, you're missing that he says that gossip and traveler tales say there are four different origins for the Jews and none of them are from Jewish sources. 

None of the tales match each other and no tale matches the archaeological evidence or records from that time and none match what the Jews say about themselves.

 

Did you miss this part?

that the Ashkenazi are more similar to the Cretans than to the two Levantine Semitic populations. One possible explanation is that this relation might reveal a common Mediterranean ancestry that the Cretan and Ashkenazi populations share.

[cormac mac airt]

35 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

I don’t think so. mtDNA K is a maternal line.

So, it’s an over generalization to imply that Haplogroup K itself is Ashkenazi Jewish in origin when actually only certain haplotypes are: 

Quote

Ashkenazi Jews are the ethnic groups with the highest percentage of K lineages today : 32% in average, and up to 50% among Ashkenazi Jews from Germany. There are only three typically Jewish subclades of K: K1a1b1a, K1a9, and K2a2a. There are other subclades, like K1a7, K1a8 and K2c, which are also found among people of Jewish descent, but they are very rare.

https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_K_mtDNA.shtml#history

K1a9 happens to be only one of @ 7 haplotypes under mine that are Ashkenazi. Mine being K1a+T195C. 
 

cormac

Edited August 25 by cormac mac airt

[Kenemet]

9 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

Did you miss this part?

that the Ashkenazi are more similar to the Cretans than to the two Levantine Semitic populations. One possible explanation is that this relation might reveal a common Mediterranean ancestry that the Cretan and Ashkenazi populations share.

"Mediterranean ancestry" is a relatively meaningless term, since it means anyone from the general area of the Mediterranean... including Spain, Algeria, Libya, Egypt, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Palestine, Israel, Monaco, Slovenia, Croatia, Tunisia, and indeed all the countries in this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mediterranean_countries

The Ashkenazi are a "closed society" (marrying only others of their faith) and did not exist until 1000 AD or so (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews)  Before then, they were part of the general Jewish culture.  The presence of those genes means that some people in the lineage were Jewish families who were in Crete at the time of the Kitos Wars and were driven out of Crete.

[Oniomancer]

Wasn't it recently found that european ashkenazis were the products of mixing with euros going back to their earliest migration there? There's also some suggestion of anatolian affinity, which is right next door. The myceneans themselves appear to have anatolian origins.

[Piney]

The Idumeans (Edomites) were just part of the Hebrew ethnogenesis but they most certainly didn't come from Crete. 

[The Puzzler]

My iPad just inexplicably died and won’t charge…on phone, how do u guys manage it, hate the phone, so tiny, back when my iPad charges x

[The Puzzler]

The genetics speak for them self.

[The Puzzler]

You all say the Bible is rubbish, here’s your chance to prove it but now suddenly, it’s true…

[cormac mac airt]

22 minutes ago, The Puzzler said:

The genetics speak for them self.

And the relevant haplotypes of the greater MtDNA Haplogroup K are relatively negligible in quantity to the whole. Doesn’t leave you with much of a point. 
 

cormac