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Faeden

Billy Goats Gruff

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Faeden

Hi all

First of all I dont believe in "The Devil or "Satan" just for the record, and this is not an anti Christian thread. I’m not saying I believe what I am asking, but just wondering if anyone else can see my reasoning?

One of my favourite children’s stories when I was a kid was 3 Billy goats gruff. I read it just now, and a thought occurred to me. Is there a hidden moral to this story, being that the good characters in the story are goats, and the bad character is the Troll that lives under the bridge, and that its the Troll that gives permission on who can pass into the green pastures. "The Devil" in Christian mythology is half goat half human, and was cast out of heaven because he did not agree with the Christian gods plan, could it be that the hidden meaning to this tale is that the troll is the Christian God that is mean, and wont let anyone into heaven (Or in this case the green pastures) Could this story be secretly symbolising "Satan" wining a battle with a cruel god? Letting all who pass though it over into heaven (Or the green pastures to graze)?

Here is the story if you have never seen or heard it before. It might just be a British story, so I am unsure if other countries have it to.

Once upon a time there were three Billy Goats called Gruff.

In the winter they lived in a barn in the valley.

When spring came they longed to travel up to the mountains to eat the lush sweet grass.

On their way to the mountains the three Billy Goats Gruff had to cross a rushing river.

But there was only one bridge across it, made of wooden planks.

And underneath the bridge there lived a terrible, ugly, one-eyed troll.

Nobody was allowed to cross the bridge without the troll's permission and nobody ever got permission.

He always ate them up.

The smallest Billy Goat Gruff was first to reach the bridge.

Trippity-trop, trippity-trop went his little hooves as he trotted over the wooden planks.

Ting-tang, ting-tang went the little bell round his neck.

" Who's that trotting over my bridge ? " Growled the troll from under the bridge.

"Billy Goat Gruff," squeaked the smallest goat in his little voice. "I'm only going up to the mountain to eat the sweet spring grass."

Oh no, you're not!" said the troll.

"I'm going to eat you for breakfast!"

" Oh no, please Mr. Troll, " pleaded the goat.

" I'm only the smallest Billy Goat Gruff. I'm much too tiny for you to eat, and I wouldn't taste very good.

Why don't you wait for my brother, the second Billy Goat Gruff ? He's much bigger than me and would be much more tasty. "

The troll did not want to waste his time on a little goat if there was a bigger and better one to eat.

"All right, you can cross my bridge," he grunted.

"Go and get fatter on the mountain and I'll eat you on your way back!"

So the smallest Billy Goat Gruff skipped across to the other side.

The troll did not have to wait long for the second Billy Goat Gruff.

Clip-clop, clip-clop went his hooves as he clattered over the wooden planks.

Ding-dong, ding-dong went the bell around his neck.

"Who's that clattering across my bridge?" screamed the troll, suddenly appearing from under the planks.

" Billy Goat Gruff, " said the second goat in his middle-sized voice.

"I'm going up to the mountain to eat the lovely spring grass."

"Oh no you're not!" said the troll.

"I'm going to eat you for breakfast."

" Oh, no, please, " said the second goat.

" I may be bigger than the first Billy Goat Gruff, but I'm much smaller than my brother, the third Billy Goat Gruff.

Why don't you wait for him? He would be much more of a meal than me. "

The troll was getting very hungry, but he did not want to waste his appetite on a middle-sized goat if there was an even bigger one to come.

" All right, you can cross my bridge," he rumbled.

" Go and get fatter on the mountain and I'll eat you on your way back ! "

So the middle-sized Billy Goat Gruff scampered across to the other side.

The troll did not have to wait long for the third Billy Goat Gruff.

Tromp-tramp, tromp-tramp went his hooves as he stomped across the wooden planks.

Bong-bang, bong-bang went the big bell round his neck.

" Who's that stomping over my bridge?" roared the troll, resting his chin on his hands.

" Billy Goat Gruff, " said the third goat in a deep voice.

" I'm going up to the mountain to eat the lush spring grass. "

" Oh no you're not, " said the troll as he clambered up on to the bridge.

" I'm going to eat you for breakfast ! "

" That's what you think, " said the Biggest Billy Goat Gruff.

Then he lowered his horns, galloped along the bridge and butted the ugly troll.

Up, up, up went the troll into the air... then down, down, down into the rushing river below.

He disappeared below the swirling waters, and was gone.

So much for his breakfast, thought the biggest Billy Goat Gruff.

" Now what about mine ! "

And he walked in triumph over the bridge to join his two brothers on the mountain pastures.

From then on everyone could cross the bridge whenever they liked - thanks to the

Three Billy Goats Gruff.

All the best

Faeden

Edited by Faeden

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Something Like Laughter

i think you are reading into it too much. its a standard good vs evil story, nothing more, nothing less.

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Faeden

Hi Something Like Laughter

i think you are reading into it too much. its a standard good vs evil story, nothing more, nothing less.

Yeah. I’m not saying it is the intention of the story, but when you get older you realise these things more.

By the way that was my 666th post devil.gif

All the best

Faeden

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SilverCougar

The old fairy tales were gruisem.

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Jesus_Freak

meh... that could be said about a lot of stories... and what the heck is a gruff?

Edited by Jesus_Freak

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Falco Rex

Hey, it was the Trolls' bridge. Those Billy goats were trespassing. In a true good vs. evil story they would have caught some buckshot..

..Gruff means that you talk and act tough by the way..

Edited by Falco Rex

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SilverCougar
meh... that could be said about a lot of stories... and what the heck is a gruff?

566512[/snapback]

I mean the old Brothers Grimm stories. They wern't all happy tra la la that we read our kids these days. The origonal stories were bloody and horrific.

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hyperactive
meh... that could be said about a lot of stories... and what the heck is a gruff?

566512[/snapback]

I mean the old Brothers Grimm stories. They wern't all happy tra la la that we read our kids these days. The origonal stories were bloody and horrific.

566517[/snapback]

nothing like some realism to scare your kids into compliance cool.gif

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SilverCougar

It worked!

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Faeden

Yeah the original kids stories and nursery rhymes are a lot more harsh. I have a book called "An underground education" and it has all the original kids stories in it. For instance the one that goes black birds baked in a pie, in the original its his wife who the king murdered that is in the pie, and he feeds her to his staff. Another is little red riding hood (a propaganda story) Written by Christians of the time, in order to slander paganism as being evil. The idea was the big bad wolf in nature in the woods, symbolising the pagan, as pagans where said to be taken over by the spirits of ferocious wolves. The original Little red riding hood is a lot more graphic, the wolf actually rapes little red riding hood.

Little red riding hood was a scare story for Christian children, to show them what can happen if a good Christian girl strays from the path, the big bad Devil (pagan) will get you.

all the best

Faeden

Edited by Faeden

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TheOriginalF
Yeah the original kids stories and nursery rhymes are a lot more harsh. I have a book called "An underground education" and it has all the original kids stories in it. For instance the one that goes black birds baked in a pie, in the original its his wife who the king murdered that is in the pie, and he feeds her to his staff. Another is little red riding hood (a propaganda story) Written by Christians of the time, in order to slander paganism as being evil. The idea was the big bad wolf in nature in the woods, symbolising the pagan, as pagans where said to be taken over by the spirits of ferocious wolves. The original Little red riding hood is a lot more graphic, the wolf actually rapes little red riding hood.

Little red riding hood was a  scare story for Christian children, to show them what can happen if a good Christian girl strays from the path, the big bad Devil (pagan) will get you.

all the best

Faeden

566582[/snapback]

That's a really interesting interpratation of Little Red Riding Hood, I never thought of it that way before. Now I'm going to have to go through all sorts of childerens books looking for symbolism, very interesting topic.

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Faeden

Hi TheOriginalF

Be sure to tell us what you find. Will be interesting.

I am sure that many stories taught to kids are going to have many hidden meanings, as kids are easily influenced, so the people that write them are inevitably going to throw in stuff that will influence the child, normally for the good, but I am sure its been for the worst to.

Look at religious children’s cartoons and stories, they are jam packed with brainwashing, and ideas forced sneakily thought the stories.

All the best

Faeden

Edited by Faeden

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Hoagy

I had the Ladybird book of this when I was a kid, and the image of the troll in the book terrified me, so if anyone can give me a link, or send me a pic if they have the old 1980's copy, I would be grateful, it's time to put that one to bed wink2.gif

Hoagy

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FAB4Freestyle

My twins pointed out a reminder lesson they picked up on after we read this story, which was to not back down from something that's better because it may be dangerous to go after it. The first 2 billy goats may have been gobbled up because they were maybe to frail to ward off the troll. Therefore, they had to use their brains whenever they were short on brawn. Nonetheless, all 3 goats ate well, but hopefully not at the expense of the troll learning any new lesson! 

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Doug1o29
On 4/10/2005 at 9:04 PM, Faeden said:

Yeah the original kids stories and nursery rhymes are a lot more harsh. I have a book called "An underground education" and it has all the original kids stories in it. For instance the one that goes black birds baked in a pie, in the original its his wife who the king murdered that is in the pie, and he feeds her to his staff. Another is little red riding hood (a propaganda story) Written by Christians of the time, in order to slander paganism as being evil. The idea was the big bad wolf in nature in the woods, symbolising the pagan, as pagans where said to be taken over by the spirits of ferocious wolves. The original Little red riding hood is a lot more graphic, the wolf actually rapes little red riding hood.

Little red riding hood was a scare story for Christian children, to show them what can happen if a good Christian girl strays from the path, the big bad Devil (pagan) will get you.

all the best

Faeden

There's a lot you can't put into a modern grade school book.  We were taught that Ponce de Leon was looking for the "Fountain of Youth,"  What he was looking for was a spring with water that cured impotence.  He was planning to bottle it.  Pfizer beat him to it.  BTW:  what historians think might have been that spring is on the Island of Bimini.  It produces a mineral-laden water, but has no medicinal value that we know of.  Ponce wasn't even looking on the right island.

"Hush, little baby.

Do not fret ye.

The Black Douglas

Cannot get ye."

 

Doug

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Mr Walker
On 11/04/2005 at 8:09 AM, Faeden said:

Hi all

First of all I dont believe in "The Devil or "Satan" just for the record, and this is not an anti Christian thread. I’m not saying I believe what I am asking, but just wondering if anyone else can see my reasoning?

One of my favourite children’s stories when I was a kid was 3 Billy goats gruff. I read it just now, and a thought occurred to me. Is there a hidden moral to this story, being that the good characters in the story are goats, and the bad character is the Troll that lives under the bridge, and that its the Troll that gives permission on who can pass into the green pastures. "The Devil" in Christian mythology is half goat half human, and was cast out of heaven because he did not agree with the Christian gods plan, could it be that the hidden meaning to this tale is that the troll is the Christian God that is mean, and wont let anyone into heaven (Or in this case the green pastures) Could this story be secretly symbolising "Satan" wining a battle with a cruel god? Letting all who pass though it over into heaven (Or the green pastures to graze)?

Here is the story if you have never seen or heard it before. It might just be a British story, so I am unsure if other countries have it to.

Once upon a time there were three Billy Goats called Gruff.

In the winter they lived in a barn in the valley.

When spring came they longed to travel up to the mountains to eat the lush sweet grass.

On their way to the mountains the three Billy Goats Gruff had to cross a rushing river.

But there was only one bridge across it, made of wooden planks.

And underneath the bridge there lived a terrible, ugly, one-eyed troll.

Nobody was allowed to cross the bridge without the troll's permission and nobody ever got permission.

He always ate them up.

The smallest Billy Goat Gruff was first to reach the bridge.

Trippity-trop, trippity-trop went his little hooves as he trotted over the wooden planks.

Ting-tang, ting-tang went the little bell round his neck.

" Who's that trotting over my bridge ? " Growled the troll from under the bridge.

"Billy Goat Gruff," squeaked the smallest goat in his little voice. "I'm only going up to the mountain to eat the sweet spring grass."

Oh no, you're not!" said the troll.

"I'm going to eat you for breakfast!"

" Oh no, please Mr. Troll, " pleaded the goat.

" I'm only the smallest Billy Goat Gruff. I'm much too tiny for you to eat, and I wouldn't taste very good.

Why don't you wait for my brother, the second Billy Goat Gruff ? He's much bigger than me and would be much more tasty. "

The troll did not want to waste his time on a little goat if there was a bigger and better one to eat.

"All right, you can cross my bridge," he grunted.

"Go and get fatter on the mountain and I'll eat you on your way back!"

So the smallest Billy Goat Gruff skipped across to the other side.

The troll did not have to wait long for the second Billy Goat Gruff.

Clip-clop, clip-clop went his hooves as he clattered over the wooden planks.

Ding-dong, ding-dong went the bell around his neck.

"Who's that clattering across my bridge?" screamed the troll, suddenly appearing from under the planks.

" Billy Goat Gruff, " said the second goat in his middle-sized voice.

"I'm going up to the mountain to eat the lovely spring grass."

"Oh no you're not!" said the troll.

"I'm going to eat you for breakfast."

" Oh, no, please, " said the second goat.

" I may be bigger than the first Billy Goat Gruff, but I'm much smaller than my brother, the third Billy Goat Gruff.

Why don't you wait for him? He would be much more of a meal than me. "

The troll was getting very hungry, but he did not want to waste his appetite on a middle-sized goat if there was an even bigger one to come.

" All right, you can cross my bridge," he rumbled.

" Go and get fatter on the mountain and I'll eat you on your way back ! "

So the middle-sized Billy Goat Gruff scampered across to the other side.

The troll did not have to wait long for the third Billy Goat Gruff.

Tromp-tramp, tromp-tramp went his hooves as he stomped across the wooden planks.

Bong-bang, bong-bang went the big bell round his neck.

" Who's that stomping over my bridge?" roared the troll, resting his chin on his hands.

" Billy Goat Gruff, " said the third goat in a deep voice.

" I'm going up to the mountain to eat the lush spring grass. "

" Oh no you're not, " said the troll as he clambered up on to the bridge.

" I'm going to eat you for breakfast ! "

" That's what you think, " said the Biggest Billy Goat Gruff.

Then he lowered his horns, galloped along the bridge and butted the ugly troll.

Up, up, up went the troll into the air... then down, down, down into the rushing river below.

He disappeared below the swirling waters, and was gone.

So much for his breakfast, thought the biggest Billy Goat Gruff.

" Now what about mine ! "

And he walked in triumph over the bridge to join his two brothers on the mountain pastures.

From then on everyone could cross the bridge whenever they liked - thanks to the

Three Billy Goats Gruff.

All the best

Faeden

Loved this story as a kid but this is a sanitised version In the original the big billy goat cuts open the troll and rescues the little goats form its stomach   Id never heard a religious moral attached ti it  before, but all those stories were moral teaching tales created before widespread literacy, to teach young people safe behaviours and proper  respect for elders, laws etc. some were specifically aimed at adolescent girls, to teach  "stranger danger " .   

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LightAngel
On 11/4/2005 at 12:39 AM, Faeden said:

 

Once upon a time there were three Billy Goats called Gruff.

In the winter they lived in a barn in the valley.

When spring came they longed to travel up to the mountains to eat the lush sweet grass.

On their way to the mountains the three Billy Goats Gruff had to cross a rushing river.

But there was only one bridge across it, made of wooden planks.

And underneath the bridge there lived a terrible, ugly, one-eyed troll.

Nobody was allowed to cross the bridge without the troll's permission and nobody ever got permission.

He always ate them up.

The smallest Billy Goat Gruff was first to reach the bridge.

Trippity-trop, trippity-trop went his little hooves as he trotted over the wooden planks.

Ting-tang, ting-tang went the little bell round his neck.

" Who's that trotting over my bridge ? " Growled the troll from under the bridge.

"Billy Goat Gruff," squeaked the smallest goat in his little voice. "I'm only going up to the mountain to eat the sweet spring grass."

Oh no, you're not!" said the troll.

"I'm going to eat you for breakfast!"

" Oh no, please Mr. Troll, " pleaded the goat.

" I'm only the smallest Billy Goat Gruff. I'm much too tiny for you to eat, and I wouldn't taste very good.

Why don't you wait for my brother, the second Billy Goat Gruff ? He's much bigger than me and would be much more tasty. "

The troll did not want to waste his time on a little goat if there was a bigger and better one to eat.

"All right, you can cross my bridge," he grunted.

"Go and get fatter on the mountain and I'll eat you on your way back!"

So the smallest Billy Goat Gruff skipped across to the other side.

The troll did not have to wait long for the second Billy Goat Gruff.

Clip-clop, clip-clop went his hooves as he clattered over the wooden planks.

Ding-dong, ding-dong went the bell around his neck.

"Who's that clattering across my bridge?" screamed the troll, suddenly appearing from under the planks.

" Billy Goat Gruff, " said the second goat in his middle-sized voice.

"I'm going up to the mountain to eat the lovely spring grass."

"Oh no you're not!" said the troll.

"I'm going to eat you for breakfast."

" Oh, no, please, " said the second goat.

" I may be bigger than the first Billy Goat Gruff, but I'm much smaller than my brother, the third Billy Goat Gruff.

Why don't you wait for him? He would be much more of a meal than me. "

The troll was getting very hungry, but he did not want to waste his appetite on a middle-sized goat if there was an even bigger one to come.

" All right, you can cross my bridge," he rumbled.

" Go and get fatter on the mountain and I'll eat you on your way back ! "

So the middle-sized Billy Goat Gruff scampered across to the other side.

The troll did not have to wait long for the third Billy Goat Gruff.

Tromp-tramp, tromp-tramp went his hooves as he stomped across the wooden planks.

Bong-bang, bong-bang went the big bell round his neck.

" Who's that stomping over my bridge?" roared the troll, resting his chin on his hands.

" Billy Goat Gruff, " said the third goat in a deep voice.

" I'm going up to the mountain to eat the lush spring grass. "

" Oh no you're not, " said the troll as he clambered up on to the bridge.

" I'm going to eat you for breakfast ! "

" That's what you think, " said the Biggest Billy Goat Gruff.

Then he lowered his horns, galloped along the bridge and butted the ugly troll.

Up, up, up went the troll into the air... then down, down, down into the rushing river below.

He disappeared below the swirling waters, and was gone.

So much for his breakfast, thought the biggest Billy Goat Gruff.

" Now what about mine ! "

And he walked in triumph over the bridge to join his two brothers on the mountain pastures.

From then on everyone could cross the bridge whenever they liked - thanks to the

Three Billy Goats Gruff.

All the best

Faeden

 

 This story is mostly about greed.

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ChaosRose

Holy necropost.

This is funny, though.

I'm glad someone got it up on the board.

I think somebody was reading way too much into a story about a monster having to pick on someone his own size, due to his own greed. 

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