Avi Loeb: 'we should be looking for interstellar alien space trash'

[UM-Bot]

The Harvard astrophysicist believes that we may find trash from alien civilizations within the vicinity of the Earth.

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/news/380865/avi-loeb-we-should-be-looking-for-interstellar-alien-space-trash

[Hazzard]

I imagine that NASA has more important things to do.

[Essan]

Why?   Why do people think our solar system would ever been targetted by aliens?   There are billions of others out there. 

For us to be visited by aliens (assuming they are out there and have the means to travel FtL) is like expeciting to win the lottery the first time you buy a ticket.

There could be 100,000 advanced alien species in our galaxy and none of them would ever come our way.   Why would they?    

[Cho Jinn]

1 hour ago, Essan said:

Why?   Why do people think our solar system would ever been targetted by aliens?   There are billions of others out there. 

For us to be visited by aliens (assuming they are out there and have the means to travel FtL) is like expeciting to win the lottery the first time you buy a ticket.

There could be 100,000 advanced alien species in our galaxy and none of them would ever come our way.   Why would they?    

Theosophy.  Are we assuming knowledge of alien motivations for doing things, and moreover their technological capability?  Your advanced aliens are using hydrazine rockets and have antennas no more than, say 300m wide?  I had no idea! In that case, yeah this alien / UFO topic is all nonsense.

 

[Bendy Demon]

What makes one assume that beings from another world are going to pollute space, not to mention the space around their planet like we do?

Is it assumed to be a given that their planet has trash swirling around like earth does or that if they are doing inter-stellar voyages that their starships will be SO primitive that they just jettison their trash like we do?

I do think there are civilizations out there other than our own but given that we are located in the relative back-waters of the galaxy (on the edge of one of the arms we are told) I am not sure that it is likely that any of them would pay our world a visit and if they did at one point then decided to return they'd be horrified as to what we have become.

But we have far more pertinent things to worry about than theoretical trash that may have been theoretically jettisoned by interstellar travelers.

[astrobeing]

I believe the Harvard astrophysicist should spend less time grasping at straws.

[Harte]

3 hours ago, Essan said:

Why?   Why do people think our solar system would ever been targetted by aliens?   There are billions of others out there. 

For us to be visited by aliens (assuming they are out there and have the means to travel FtL) is like expeciting to win the lottery the first time you buy a ticket.

There could be 100,000 advanced alien species in our galaxy and none of them would ever come our way.   Why would they?    

Meh.
Something could have "washed up" in our solar system like happens on beaches.

Harte

[Buzz_Light_Year]

Say we did detect space junk orbiting a planet like we have orbiting Earth. The first theory would be that it was some kind of Dyson Sphere. 

[Hazzard]

5 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Say we did detect space junk orbiting a planet like we have orbiting Earth. The first theory would be that it was some kind of Dyson Sphere. 

Dyson spheres are supposed to be built around a star to collect all of its radiant energy... not around a planet.

 

[Buzz_Light_Year]

2 minutes ago, Hazzard said:

Dyson spheres are supposed to be built around a star to collect all of its radiant energy... not around a planet.

 

Quote

some kind of Dyson Sphere

It could simply be a solar array that beams solar power to the planet. We've already done that.

My point is that we wouldn't list space junk as the first reason for detecting artificial objects in orbit around a planet. 

[josellama2000]

15 hours ago, MrAnderson said:

Maybe you should help him with the mathematics and the programs he runs. I am sure he can use some of your expertise in these areas and especially in astrophysics.

Please consider the concept of the 'appeal to false authority.' By understanding it, we can avoid engaging in discussions that lack substance.

While open-mindedness and accommodating are important, we must never relinquish the responsibility of our own thinking to others—whether they are leaders or experts. Sound reasoning should be grounded in evidence and logic (reason), not in deference to authority or political influence."

Edited September 16 by josellama2000

[cormac mac airt]

We can't even prove that aliens exist so how the hell are we supposed to identify their trash? Cart before the horse. 

cormac

[Trelane]

On 9/16/2024 at 8:21 AM, Buzz_Light_Year said:

It could simply be a solar array that beams solar power to the planet. We've already done that.

My point is that we wouldn't list space junk as the first reason for detecting artificial objects in orbit around a planet. 

What solar arrays? There was a recent CALTECH experiment and that was it. Nothing replicated, certainly nothing mass produced currently beaming anything to earth. Definitely no arrays. Very disingenuous.

 

Avi Loeb's speculative ramblings are "alien space trash".

Edited September 17 by Trelane

[Buzz_Light_Year]

4 minutes ago, Trelane said:

What solar arrays? There was an experiment and that was it. Nothing replicated, nothing mass produced currently beaming anything to earth. Very disingenuous.

 

Avi Loeb's speculative ramblings are "alien space trash".

https://www.space.com/space-solar-power-satellite-beams-energy-1st-time

Quote

The Space Solar Power Demonstrator's MAPLE experiment was able to wirelessly transfer collected solar power to receivers in space and direct energy to Earth.

I made the statement that we had already done that and the experiment is proof of that statement.

Edited September 17 by Buzz_Light_Year

[Trelane]

1 minute ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

https://www.space.com/space-solar-power-satellite-beams-energy-1st-time

I made the statement that we had already done that and the experiment is proof of that statement.

Yeah thanks, that's precisely the article I referenced.

Anyway, the experiment has yet to be replicated. Initial results were promising but nothing conclusive. They powered a pair of LEDs, not great. Considering the energy requirement the earth's population would require, I don't think the application is realistic in it's design to execution.

[MrAnderson]

On 9/16/2024 at 9:18 PM, cormac mac airt said:

We can't even prove that aliens exist so how the hell are we supposed to identify their trash? Cart before the horse. 

cormac

We can identify some potential biosignatures on other planets and look for wrap drives as we discussed in the other thread. We can look for water on other planets and we have been doing so in the last almost 30 years. See exoplanet research.

[MrAnderson]

On 9/16/2024 at 12:41 PM, josellama2000 said:

Please consider the concept of the 'appeal to false authority.' By understanding it, we can avoid engaging in discussions that lack substance.

While open-mindedness and accommodating are important, we must never relinquish the responsibility of our own thinking to others—whether they are leaders or experts. Sound reasoning should be grounded in evidence and logic (reason), not in deference to authority or political influence."

Avi Loeb is not a 'false authority'. His reasoning is grounded in logic and evidence and not in religious beliefs. Perhaps you need to appreciate more who this guy is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avi_Loeb

Loeb is the Frank B. Baird Jr. Professor of Science at Harvard University, where since 2007 he has been Director of the Institute for Theory and Computation at the Center for Astrophysics

 

[MrAnderson]

On 9/15/2024 at 8:41 PM, astrobeing said:

I believe the Harvard astrophysicist should spend less time grasping at straws.

He isn't grasping at straws. That's your own false interpretation.

[Hazzard]

1 hour ago, MrAnderson said:

Avi Loeb is not a 'false authority'. His reasoning is grounded in logic and evidence and not in religious beliefs. Perhaps you need to appreciate more who this guy is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avi_Loeb

Loeb is the Frank B. Baird Jr. Professor of Science at Harvard University, where since 2007 he has been Director of the Institute for Theory and Computation at the Center for Astrophysics

 

Perhaps you need to read up on the subject of logical fallacies, especially this one...

Appeal to authority fallacy refers to the use of an expert’s opinion to back up an argument. Instead of justifying one’s claim, a person cites an authority figure who is not qualified to make reliable claims about the topic at hand. Because people tend to believe experts, appeal to authority often imbues an argument with credibility.

https://www.scribbr.com/fallacies/appeal-to-authority-fallacy/

[astrobeing]

7 hours ago, MrAnderson said:

He isn't grasping at straws. That's your own false interpretation.

No, it's correct. You don't even know what the expression means.

[Piney]

10 hours ago, MrAnderson said:

Avi Loeb is not a 'false authority'. His reasoning is grounded in logic and evidence and not in religious beliefs. Perhaps you need to appreciate more who this guy is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avi_Loeb

Loeb is the Frank B. Baird Jr. Professor of Science at Harvard University, where since 2007 he has been Director of the Institute for Theory and Computation at the Center for Astrophysics

 

So that's why he identified steamship sperules as "extraterrestrial". 🤔

[Harte]

3 hours ago, Piney said:

So that's why he identified steamship sperules as "extraterrestrial". 🤔

Just proves he's grasping at spherules, not straws.

Harte

[josellama2000]

14 hours ago, MrAnderson said:

Avi Loeb is not a 'false authority'. His reasoning is grounded in logic and evidence and not in religious beliefs. Perhaps you need to appreciate more who this guy is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avi_Loeb

Loeb is the Frank B. Baird Jr. Professor of Science at Harvard University, where since 2007 he has been Director of the Institute for Theory and Computation at the Center for Astrophysics

 

You probably misunderstood what i tried to say. An authority is also a human that can make mistakes, incur in fallacies, or have conflicts of interest with science.
Ergo, citing a expert in their fields should be a valid argument. However, citing an expert on non-related fields should be a fallacy in most situations. BTW, citing is just not using the expert's name to support the validity of your arguments.

On the other hand, Loeb clearly showed that have been in a long campaign to promote the sales of his books, and to get notoriety by manipulating the media. Loeb clearly showed that he is incapable of getting those science accomplishments he would need to get a honorable notoriety.

Edited September 20 by josellama2000

[MrAnderson]

6 minutes ago, josellama2000 said:

You probably misunderstood what i tried to say. An authority is also a human that can make mistakes, incur in fallacies, or have conflicts of interest with science.
Ergo, citing a expert in their fields should be a valid argument. However, citing an expert on non-related fields should be a fallacy in most situations. BTW, citing is just not using the expert's name to support the validity of your arguments.

On the other hand, Loeb clearly showed that have been in a long campaign to promote the sales of his books, and to get notoriety by manipulating the media. Loeb clearly showed that he is incapable of get those science accomplishments he would need to get a honorable notoriety.

I don't agree that Loeb is dying to promote his books and wants fame and money out of this. He is already famous, financially secure, and has a very good position due to his research and not because he sold some books. The books is an extra but his motivation is rather different than what you have suggested. All you need to do is either go to his lecture or listen to what he says from his online talks.

[MrAnderson]

@Hazzard since you find it funny tell the audience why do you think it's funny. If you think Avi Loeb is dying to sell his books to become rich and famous.