What heaven's really like - by a top brain surgeon who has been there

[pellinore]

Before I start, I should explain that I am a scientist, who has spent a lifetime studying the workings of the brain. 

My adoptive father was a neurosurgeon and I followed his path, becoming an neurosurgeon myself and an academic who taught brain science at Harvard Medical School.

Although nominally a Christian, I was sceptical when patients described spiritual experiences to me. 

My knowledge of the brain made me quite sure that out-of-body experiences, angelic encounters and the like were hallucinations, brought on when the brain suffered a trauma.

And then, in the most dramatic circumstances possible, I discovered proof that I was wrong.

What heaven's really like - by a top brain surgeon who slipped into a coma and went there. Read DR EBEN ALEXANDER'S testimony of what he saw before you scoff - and the astonishing proof it was real | Daily Mail Online (archive.ph)

Edited September 19 by pellinore

[Piney]

3 minutes ago, pellinore said:

Before I start, I should explain that I am a scientist, who has spent a lifetime studying the workings of the brain. 

My adoptive father was a neurosurgeon and I followed his path, becoming an neurosurgeon myself and an academic who taught brain science at Harvard Medical School.

Although nominally a Christian, I was sceptical when patients described spiritual experiences to me. 

My knowledge of the brain made me quite sure that out-of-body experiences, angelic encounters and the like were hallucinations, brought on when the brain suffered a trauma.

And then, in the most dramatic circumstances possible, I discovered proof that I was wrong.

What heaven's really like - by a top brain surgeon who slipped into a coma and went there. Read DR EBEN ALEXANDER'S testimony of what he saw before you scoff - and the astonishing proof it was real | Daily Mail Online (archive.ph)

Another liar for Jesus.

A coma is not "brain death" and if he actually suffered it and survived he would be a drooling vegetable. 

[Antigonos]

I have a more sardonic use for the term “brain surgeon” when I hear stories like this.

[Piney]

Just now, Antigonos said:

I have a more sardonic use for the term “brain surgeon” when I hear stories like this.

I think "Ben Carson". 😬

[+Desertrat56]

It's bad enough when uneducated people claim they died and went to heaven and then came back, but a brain surgeon, unbelievable.   Especially when a brain surgeon knows the difference between brain death and coma.

Edited September 19 by Desertrat56

[Claira]

58 minutes ago, Piney said:

Another liar for Jesus.

A coma is not "brain death" and if he actually suffered it and survived he would be a drooling vegetable. 

You mean a liar for profit, not prophet.

His claim that meningitis caused his coma was a lie. He was in a chemically induced coma. And, as you point out, his brain did not cease all activity. The medical team working on him confirmed all this a long time ago.

Must be a slow news day for the Daily Mail. This story is older than I am — well not quite, but still...

 

 

[Piney]

9 minutes ago, Claira said:

You mean a liar for profit, not prophet.

His claim that meningitis caused his coma was a lie. He was in a chemically induced coma. And, as you point out, his brain did not cease all activity. The medical team working on him confirmed all this a long time ago.

Must be a slow news day for the Daily Mail. This story is older than I am — well not quite, but still...

 

 

Once those gamma waves spike and stop it's over.

 

[papageorge1]

Eben Alexander's case is one of the best and most articulated cases suggesting he experienced deeply and spiritually with his higher brain functioning not active. And his experience was more vivid and real seeming than normal experiences through the brain.

His case is very famous in the NDE discussion world so he is a poster boy for NDE skeptics too. (So here might come the debate again). I am a believer that his case is compelling evidence that consciousness does not require a functioning physical brain. In fact, consciousness is more expanded without the limitations of the brain.

[Antigonos]

26 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Eben Alexander's case is one of the best and most articulated cases suggesting he experienced deeply and spiritually with his higher brain functioning not active. And his experience was more vivid and real seeming than normal experiences through the brain.

His case is very famous in the NDE discussion world so he is a poster boy for NDE skeptics too. (So here might come the debate again). I am a believer that his case is compelling evidence that consciousness does not require a functioning physical brain. In fact, consciousness is more expanded without the limitations of the brain.

Sure, sure. It’s ok. Off you go. 

*Pats on head, guides towards nearest padded cell, pushes thru doorway, gently closes and locks door*. 

[papageorge1]

2 minutes ago, Antigonos said:

Sure, sure. It’s ok. Off you go. 

*Pats on head, guides towards nearest padded cell, pushes thru doorway, gently closes and locks door*. 

This type of response should be beneath you. I think you are better than that. But it's strange what a serious discussion of NDEs does to insecure people.

[Rlyeh]

Heaven is the sky

[Tatetopa]

My wife's dad in his 90's told me he was having very realistic dreams about his lifetime as a Montana logger, eating his lunch on a fallen log, walking through timber, running a cat and so on..  Or dreams about fishing. He had a number of those pleasant dreams. He said once that the only thing bad about the dreams was that he woke up.  He was nearly deaf from a lifetime of Cats and chainsaws and nearly blind. His favorite pastime then was reading old Western novels, and the fading of vision robbed him of that He died within six months at 93.  I hope he was having one of those dreams there at the end. I think that those dreams were one of the best sources of happiness in his last year. 

Doesn't sound like an NDE does it,  but I believe that our brains try to cope with our failing bodies and release of life.

[Antigonos]

17 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

This type of response should be beneath you. I think you are better than that. But it's strange what a serious discussion of NDEs does to insecure people.

Easy there big fella. Calm down. No one’s taking away your emotional pacifiers.

[Piney]

1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

But it's strange what a serious discussion of NDEs does to insecure people.

Makes them vehemently defend the goofiests stories?

Pantheists don't believe in heaven you become one with Creation.

So I'm guessing you don't know what to believe. So you just believe everything. 

[papageorge1]

18 minutes ago, Piney said:

Makes them vehemently defend the goofiests stories?

Pantheists don't believe in heaven you become one with Creation.

So I'm guessing you don't know what to believe. So you just believe everything. 

Jeepers Piney.

This is among the goofiest of stories??? 

And I’ve tried to educate you before than pantheism is compatible with an afterlife and reincarnation on the path to Oneness.

 

[Piney]

39 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Jeepers Piney.

This is among the goofiest of stories??? 

And I’ve tried to educate you before than pantheism is compatible with an afterlife and reincarnation on the path to Oneness.

 

Reincarnation is negated by genetic predisposition and the Christian version of heaven is as goofy as you get. 

[papageorge1]

6 minutes ago, Piney said:

Reincarnation is negated by genetic predisposition 

Many believe a soul animates and influences the incarnation

7 minutes ago, Piney said:

 Christian version of heaven is as goofy as you get. 

Who here is espousing that? Eben Alexander does not hold to any one religion.

[Claira]

3 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

His case is very famous in the NDE discussion world so he is a poster boy for NDE skeptics too. (So here might come the debate again). I am a believer that his case is compelling evidence that consciousness does not require a functioning physical brain. In fact, consciousness is more expanded without the limitations of the brain.

I've no intention of challenging your beliefs, but this case provides no such compelling evidence. A doctor who treated Alexander said that he was put in a medically induced coma which he came out of (conscious but delirious) multiple times, which means he had the brain activity needed to have hallucinated his trip to heaven.

[papageorge1]

18 minutes ago, Claira said:

I've no intention of challenging your beliefs, but this case provides no such compelling evidence. A doctor who treated Alexander said that he was put in a medically induced coma which he came out of (conscious but delirious) multiple times, which means he had the brain activity needed to have hallucinated his trip to heaven.

In that case one would expect delirious confused thoughts probably not remembered. Quite the opposite of what occurred. 

My leading theory is that at death-like trauma our astral/soul body separates from the physical body and experiences the subtle astral plane. This expansive NDE case does not stand alone either with patients showing no higher brain functioning.

[pellinore]

4 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

Eben Alexander's case is one of the best and most articulated cases suggesting he experienced deeply and spiritually with his higher brain functioning not active. And his experience was more vivid and real seeming than normal experiences through the brain.

His case is very famous in the NDE discussion world so he is a poster boy for NDE skeptics too. (So here might come the debate again). I am a believer that his case is compelling evidence that consciousness does not require a functioning physical brain. In fact, consciousness is more expanded without the limitations of the brain.

Thank you! An unprejudiced view!

[pellinore]

6 hours ago, Piney said:

Another liar for Jesus.

I am saddened by some of the responses to this thread. If Richard Dawkins says the "theory" of evolution is true, people say "He must be right, he is a scientist". Yet if an actual scientist actually visits heaven, people don't say "He must be right, he is a scientist" - they say the opposite!

A nice illustration of double standards- science is right when it suits but is debunked by the same people when it doesn't suit.

Don't forget, Dawkins hasn't actually seen an animal evolve in front of his eyes, it is just conjecture. Yet this scientist has actually been to Heaven, so can give a first-hand account of it. He is not speculating.

Some people just have closed minds. They will believe Man was once just a monkey walking in trees without needing evidence, but they won't believe someone who has real contemporaneous evidence- something he has actually experienced as a scientist. 

[Piney]

11 minutes ago, pellinore said:

I am saddened by some of the responses to this thread. If Richard Dawkins says the "theory" of evolution is true, people say "He must be right, he is a scientist". Yet if an actual scientist actually visits heaven, people don't say "He must be right, he is a scientist" - they say the opposite!

A nice illustration of double standards- science is right when it suits but is debunked by the same people when it doesn't suit.

Don't forget, Dawkins hasn't actually seen an animal evolve in front of his eyes, it is just conjecture. Yet this scientist has actually been to Heaven, so can give a first-hand account of it. He is not speculating.

Some people just have closed minds. They will believe Man was once just a monkey walking in trees without needing evidence, but they won't believe someone who has real contemporaneous evidence- something he has actually experienced as a scientist. 

The Lenski experiment shows evolution at work. I'm sure Richard read the data and medical induced comas aren't brain death. Eben outright lied. He also settled numerous malpractice lawsuits and was canned from several hospitals.

Meningitis also causes hallucinations. 

1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

Many believe a soul animates and influences the incarnation

Your born a addict or sociopath. It's in your genes. Why would you be reincarnated into that? 

1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

Who here is espousing that? Eben Alexander does not hold to any one religion.

He said he was a Christian on numerous occasions and he described the Jehovah's Witnesses' Heaven. 

[pellinore]

2 minutes ago, Piney said:

Your born a addict or sociopath. It's in your genes. Why would you be reincarnated into that? 

Hebrews 2:10: we are made perfect through suffering.  If it is God's will, that is the path we must take: the addict or sociopath will become perfect.

[papageorge1]

8 minutes ago, Piney said:

He said he was a Christian on numerous occasions and he described the Jehovah's Witnesses' Heaven. 

?? Are you talking about Eban Alexander or the OP? The OP writeup was strictly only about Eban.

[Piney]

Just now, pellinore said:

Hebrews 2:10: we are made perfect through suffering.  If it is God's will, that is the path we must take: the addict or sociopath will become perfect.

"A sociopath is to be burned. " - Algonquian law