The Khafre Enigma Part II

[atalante]

On 11/9/2024 at 8:44 AM, Thanos5150 said:

....? Thanks for at least responding, but how does what I wrote invite you to completely ignore it and offer this instead? And my suggestion is based on known facts and/or lack there of-what other than the existence of this statue itself would there be to support a claim the original face of the Great Sphinx was a woman? And before you answer understand there appears to be clear evidence the face of this statue was recarved from that of a lion. 

 

 

Thanos, 

I probably was not clear enough that I was replying to a combination of your posts #44, #47 and #48.   Obviously a lot of confusion still exists about the era from Khufu to Khafre.   It seems that no images of the great sphinx exist from the Old Kingdom.  My "spitball" suggestion was that the great sphinx may have had a human head during the Old Kingdom.

Here are some brief details about what happened in the mysterious time period from Djedefre to Khafre.  Djedefre abandoned Giza and built his own pyramid at Abu Rawash.  His son Baka started the Unfinished Pyramid of Zawyet El Aryan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfinished_Northern_Pyramid_of_Zawyet_El_Aryan

Setka, another son of Djedefre, was the crown prince and may have been a bit flaky.  Dodson has proposed that the name of Setka was a reference to the god Set; but Dodson is disputed about this.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setka_(prince)#Possible_reign_as_king

I expect that no construction by Setka is known today.  It seems, to me, that the early plan for Giza was to have only one pyramid at Giza, Khufu's pyramid; so Djedefre and Baka built their pyramids elsewhere.  But Setka may have built something at Giza that was not a pyramid.  To permanently cover up whatever Setka built at Giza, Khafre built his own pyramid on top of whatever Setka had built, and added the great sphinx enclosure.

 

With the above comments in mind -- why would Khafre build a giant statue of a natural lion at Giza?  Instead, perhaps a human face was being depicted -- with power equivalent to a natural lion -- on the great sphinx. 

 

 

 

 

 

  

Edited November 10, 2024 by atalante

[Thanos5150]

53 minutes ago, atalante said:

I probably was not clear enough that I was replying to a combination of your posts #44, #47 and #48.   Obviously a lot of confusion still exists about the era from Khufu to Khafre.   It seems that no images of the great sphinx exist from the Old Kingdom.  My "spitball" suggestion was that the great sphinx may have had a human head during the Old Kingdom.

This is what you wrote:

"OK.  I can spitball a suggestion about post #43, too.  Even if the statue in post #43 is from Middle Kingdom, as you suggest, it could be representing the original face on the great sphinx."  

You were very clear-you even made a point to specifically mention post #43 twice. Which makes sense because #47 (and #48) as I noted has nothing to do with your comments. You also did not say just any 'ol face but rather specifically that [in context] the Hetepheres II lion represented the "original face" ergo a woman.  

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Here are some brief details about what happened in the mysterious time period from Djedefre to Khafre.  Djedefre abandoned Giza and built his own pyramid at Abu Rawash.  His son Baka started the Unfinished Pyramid of Zawyet El Aryan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfinished_Northern_Pyramid_of_Zawyet_El_Aryan  

I am curious why you state as fact "Baka started the Unfinished Pyramid of Zawyet El Aryan" when this is not what the article says. Some think this but others do not and actually believe it dates to the end of the 3rd Dynasty. 

Egyptologists and historians continue to debate the dating of the pyramid of Baka. They point to several graffiti made of black and red ink, which were found in the chamber and in the descending stairway. Alessandro Barsanti recorded at least 67 inscriptions. They record the names of different workmen crews as well as the name of the planned pyramid complex: Seba ?-Ka, meaning "The Star of ?-Ka". The workmen crew whose name appears most often — thus being the leading crew during the building works — was Wer-ef-seba ?-Ka, meaning "Great Like the Star of (King) ?-Ka". Inscription No.35 gives the name Neferka-Nefer (meaning "His Beautiful Ka is Flawless"), but otherwise lacks any reference to known people from the 4th Dynasty. Graffiti No.15 and No.52 also mention an interesting royal name: Nebkarâ, meaning "Lord of the Ka of Râ". It is unknown if this is actually the name of a yet unknown king or that of a prince. A further inscription, No.55, mentions a possible Gold name: Neb hedjet-nwb, meaning "Lord of the Golden Crown". Some egyptologists propose that this is either the Horus name of king Huni or the Gold name of king Nebka. This, however, would implicate that the pyramid was built during the late 3rd Dynasty rather than the 4th.^[1][5][6]

Kurt Sethe, Nabil M.A. Swelim and Wolfgang Helck contradict the former arguments and date the shaft to the late 3rd Dynasty. They point out that, in general, the use of hewn granite as a floor covering in royal tombs was a tradition since the reign of king Khasekhemwy, the last pharaoh of 2nd Dynasty. Furthermore, the tradition of building shaft-like tombs beneath a pyramid was a tradition of the 3rd Dynasty, not of the 4th Dynasty. The alignment of the pyramid complex on a South to North axis was also a common during the 3rd Dynasty.^[2][8] Additionally, W. Helck and Eberhard Otto point out, that the design similarities between the pyramid of Baka and that of Djedefre might be striking, but the design of Djedefre's pyramid was atypical for the 4th Dynasty anyway. Thus, to use Djedefre's tomb design as a comparison argument cannot confirm a 4th Dynasty datation. Finally, egyptologists doubt the evaluations of Barsanti concerning the size of the pyramid base. They think that the pyramid was not so big as Lepsius and Barsanti evaluated. They also doubt the finding of Djedefre's dedication tablet, because this artifact was never published.^[2][8]

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Setka, another son of Djedefre, was the crown prince and may have been a bit flaky.  Dodson has proposed that the name of Setka was a reference to the god Set; but Dodson is disputed about this.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setka_(prince)#Possible_reign_as_king

I expect that no construction by Setka is known today.  It seems, to me, that the early plan for Giza was to have only one pyramid at Giza, Khufu's pyramid; so Djedefre and Baka built their pyramids elsewhere.  But Setka may have built something at Giza that was not a pyramid.  To permanently cover up whatever Setka built at Giza, Khafre built his own pyramid on top of whatever Setka had built, and added the great sphinx enclosure.

 

Setka is only attested from this one statue was found in the mud brick temple discussed before:

The titles listed are: "Setka (eldest son of the king, noble, lector priest of his father, superior of the secrets of the house of the opening of the mouth, sole friend of his father, controller of the ceremonial palace)"

Dodson is "spit balling" and it is not completely known if this statue even dates to the 4th Dynasty or that Setka is referring to Djedefre.  These titles also do not scream this person ever had a shot at being pharaoh regardless how short a reign. 

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With the above comments in mind -- why would Khafre build a giant statue of a natural lion at Giza?  Instead, perhaps a human face was being depicted -- with power equivalent to a natural lion --  on the great sphinx. 

I don't think Khafre did do this: Anubis-Lord of the Giza Necropolis

To accept it is a lion, which even then there is just as much reason to believe it was built before Khafre, by the same token, even less likely by your standards, why would Khafre make a giant statue of a lion with a human face? This is a question literally and figuratively as there is no precedent or contemporary evidence for it.  There is however as discussed in the above linked thread a long prior documented history of the portrayal of recumbent lions with a lion not human face.  

Edited November 10, 2024 by Thanos5150