Texas state representative said he would force women to give birth after rape

[ExpandMyMind]

Quote

Texas State Rep. John Lujan (R-San Antonio) was asked in a candidate forum on Texas Public Radio on Thursday how he thinks Texas' abortion ban is working following the overturn of Roe V. Wade.

Texas' abortion ban has no exceptions for rape or incest.

"As a Christian man, I'm very pro-life. But, man, I struggled with the rape and incest because, you know, I think if it was my daughter — I don't have any daughters, but if I had a daughter — and that would have been, you know, if it would have been a rape, I think we, as a personally, I would say, 'No, we're going to have the baby,' " Lujan told TPR's "The Source," adding that he believed Texas law does have an exception to protect the life of the mother.

Lujan's challenger, Democrat Kristian Carranza, called the comment "stunning."

“Texas women are dying, fleeing the state and being forced to carry rape and incest-related pregnancies because of extreme politicians like John Lujan," Carranza responded. "I come from a family of strong women, and if I’ve learned anything while block walking all over House District 118, it’s that John Lujan should never underestimate the power of Texas women."

https://www.tpr.org/government-politics/2024-09-27/texas-state-representative-said-he-would-force-women-to-give-birth-after-rape

[MrAnderson]

12 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

https://www.tpr.org/government-politics/2024-09-27/texas-state-representative-said-he-would-force-women-to-give-birth-after-rape

Very troubling comments by this state representative. He would pressure or even force his daughter to give birth when he knew that this pregnancy was a result of rape (according to this scenario).

https://www.aclutx.org/en/know-your-rights/abortion-texas

 

Quote

Texas bans abortions at all stages of pregnancy, unless you have a life-threatening medical emergency. The law does not provide exceptions for cases that involve rape or incest.

Something is really wrong at Texas when they prohibit abortions for cases that involve rape of incest.

Anyone who would like to move to Texas?

[Occupational Hubris]

Infant's ( 1%) and pregnant women's (56% from 19-22) mortality rates have increased in texas since their abortion ban went into effect. Remind me again how that's pro-life?

Edited September 29 by Occupational Hubris

[+and-then]

It is foolish to make such demands.  People will do what it takes when they want to evade any law and this guy proves he's not a very astute politician.  He could cost some seats in Congress. 

[ExpandMyMind]

47 minutes ago, and-then said:

It is foolish to make such demands.  People will do what it takes when they want to evade any law and this guy proves he's not a very astute politician.  He could cost some seats in Congress. 

I thought you guys were all about letting states decide.

[Tatetopa]

Aren't women just incubators who are supposed to cook dinner and be sex slaves for the men in their lives and bear their young? So what if it is their dad or brother or uncle?

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, ExpandMyMind said:

I thought you guys were all about letting states decide.

I absolutely am.  What does that have to do with him being a lousy politician?  Try to keep up.

[Claira]

2 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Aren't women just incubators who are supposed to cook dinner and be sex slaves for the men in their lives and bear their young? So what if it is their dad or brother or uncle?

That's what it seems to boil down to doesn't it.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

7 hours ago, MrAnderson said:

Very troubling comments by this state representative. He would pressure or even force his daughter to give birth when he knew that this pregnancy was a result of rape (according to this scenario).?

No chance of that, he’s the sort of congenital hypocrite that’d sneak his daughter out of state to have an abortion elsewhere 

[MrAnderson]

17 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

No chance of that, he’s the sort of congenital hypocrite that’d sneak his daughter out of state to have an abortion elsewhere 

That's what he said but he could easily change his mind if he wanted to and leave Texas to go somewhere else if one of his relatives or even friends wanted to have an abortion.

Edited September 29 by MrAnderson

[MrAnderson]

47 minutes ago, Claira said:

That's what it seems to boil down to doesn't it.

It's called 'traditonal views'.

[Claira]

1 minute ago, MrAnderson said:

It's called 'traditonal views'.

Similar to those in places like Afghanistan, Syria, Sudan and Pakistan...

[MrAnderson]

4 minutes ago, Claira said:

Similar to those in places like Afghanistan, Syria, Sudan and Pakistan...

At least here in the US we don't get to stone women to death for adultery or ostracize and condemn women for wanting to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. Texas have these laws but that won't prevent women who want to terminate their pregnancies from going somewhere else.

[Claira]

1 hour ago, MrAnderson said:

At least here in the US we don't get to stone women to death for adultery or ostracize and condemn women for wanting to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. Texas have these laws but that won't prevent women who want to terminate their pregnancies from going somewhere else.

Yes I realize that, but it's small consolation to the women and girls who are unable to travel, or have been forced to do so (at great inconvenience and expense); or to the women and girls forced to give birth to a child with fatal fetal abnormalities; and to the women and girls (including rape and incest survivors) who have no choice but to endure forced pregnancy and motherhood.

If I were in any of these women's positions, I'd consider getting stoned to death a mercy killing.

[MrAnderson]

14 minutes ago, Claira said:

Yes I realize that, but it's small consolation to the women and girls who are unable to travel, or have been forced to do so (at great inconvenience and expense); or to the women and girls forced to give birth to a child with fatal fetal abnormalities; and to the women and girls (including rape and incest survivors) who have no choice but to endure forced pregnancy and motherhood.

If I were in any of these women's positions, I'd consider getting stoned to death a mercy killing.

I don't know the percentage of the women who will be forced under the circumstances to go along with a pregnancy which is a result of rape or incest or being forced to give birth to a child which will have fatal abnormalities . I guess it's very small but there are cases and that's something awful and shouldn't happen. But there is a way out of it. The costs can be easily covered by some online fundraising in a matter of days or few weeks as there are many people who will help. Most states allow abortions up to the 24th week in the pregnancy other up to the 16th week in the pregnancy. But time exists and costs can be covered.

[Claira]

34 minutes ago, MrAnderson said:

I don't know the percentage of the women who will be forced under the circumstances to go along with a pregnancy which is a result of rape or incest or being forced to give birth to a child which will have fatal abnormalities . I guess it's very small but there are cases and that's something awful and shouldn't happen. But there is a way out of it. The costs can be easily covered by some online fundraising in a matter of days or few weeks as there are many people who will help. Most states allow abortions up to the 24th week in the pregnancy other up to the 16th week in the pregnancy. But time exists and costs can be covered.

From the stats I've seen, approximately 40% of American women live in states with abortion bans at six weeks or less, or limits at 12 to 15 weeks, so whilst I don't know the number of women and girls who have or will be impacted, I would not be surprised if it was in the thousands. 

You mentioned earlier that women are not condemned for wanting an abortion, but I would argue that criminalizing it is indeed a condemnation. I would also argue that subjecting women and girls to degrading treatment by denying them the right to make their own decisions about their bodies, their lives, and their futures, is an egregious violation of their human rights.

Having said that, Israel hasn't had a good track record in this regard either. Abortions in Israel were illegal up until the mid-1970s when they became legal subject to a termination committee's approval. Interestingly, however, the US Supreme Court ruling overturning Roe v. Wade had an extremely positive impact for us Israeli women, as it prompted our Health Ministry (which was very critical of that ruling) to even further ease access to abortions (including shutting down the termination committees).

[MrAnderson]

3 hours ago, Claira said:

From the stats I've seen, approximately 40% of American women live in states with abortion bans at six weeks or less, or limits at 12 to 15 weeks, so whilst I don't know the number of women and girls who have or will be impacted, I would not be surprised if it was in the thousands. 

You mentioned earlier that women are not condemned for wanting an abortion, but I would argue that criminalizing it is indeed a condemnation. I would also argue that subjecting women and girls to degrading treatment by denying them the right to make their own decisions about their bodies, their lives, and their futures, is an egregious violation of their human rights.

Having said that, Israel hasn't had a good track record in this regard either. Abortions in Israel were illegal up until the mid-1970s when they became legal subject to a termination committee's approval. Interestingly, however, the US Supreme Court ruling overturning Roe v. Wade had an extremely positive impact for us Israeli women, as it prompted our Health Ministry (which was very critical of that ruling) to even further ease access to abortions (including shutting down the termination committees).

I didn't realise you are from Israel so you can give a different perspective. I would expect in the middle east due to religion and culture that abortions wouldn't be the most popular thing over the years and that a lot of resistance is expected.

I think in the US some of the states limit abortion until 12 weeks in the pregnancy. Most however allowed it in the range of 16-24 weeks. I am not sure of which states allow abortion up to the 6th week in pregnancy.

I disagree with criminalising abortion but on the other hand I agree that every state must have its own laws as the US is not homogeneous in terms of culture and perceptions. But when a state makes it illegal at least they shouldn't indict those who try to perform abortions with a crime.

Edited September 29 by MrAnderson

[Claira]

20 minutes ago, MrAnderson said:

I didn't realise you are from Israel so you can give a different perspective. I would expect in the middle east due to religion and culture that abortions wouldn't be the most popular thing over the years and that a lot of resistance is expected.

The Middle East is quite diverse, so abortion laws vary across the region, but yes, there is resistance from religious groups in instances where abortions are legal.

A few examples of abortion laws (you'll note that abortion laws in some Middle Eastern countries are more liberal than in some US states):

• Israel's laws are by far the most liberal (half of Israeli Jews are secular and concerned more with personal liberty than with religion).
• Abortions in Tunisia and Turkey are freely available during the first 12 and 10 weeks respectively, after which, abortions are available when a woman’s physical or mental health is at risk, and in cases of fetal abnormalities.
• Abortions in Saudi Arabia are legal in instances of risk to a woman's life, fetal impairment, and to protect her physical and mental health. Pregnancy arising from incest or rape also qualifies for a legal abortion.
• Abortions are illegal in Egypt, Lebanon, Iran, Syria and Yemen, except when a woman's life is at risk.

 

1 hour ago, MrAnderson said:

I disagree with criminalising abortion but on the other hand I agree that every state must have its own laws as the US is not homogeneous in terms of culture and perceptions. But when a state makes it illegal at least they shouldn't indict those who try to perform abortions with a crime.

I disagree with leaving it up to individual states.

A woman's ability to make decisions about her body, life and future is a basic human right that should be protected at the national level. Each and every woman in the US should be entitled to the same freedoms  — and how they choose to exercise those freedoms should be left entirely up to them.

[MrAnderson]

1 hour ago, Claira said:

The Middle East is quite diverse, so abortion laws vary across the region, but yes, there is resistance from religious groups in instances where abortions are legal.

A few examples of abortion laws (you'll note that abortion laws in some Middle Eastern countries are more liberal than in some US states):

• Israel's laws are by far the most liberal (half of Israeli Jews are secular and concerned more with personal liberty than with religion).
• Abortions in Tunisia and Turkey are freely available during the first 12 and 10 weeks respectively, after which, abortions are available when a woman’s physical or mental health is at risk, and in cases of fetal abnormalities.
• Abortions in Saudi Arabia are legal in instances of risk to a woman's life, fetal impairment, and to protect her physical and mental health. Pregnancy arising from incest or rape also qualifies for a legal abortion.
• Abortions are illegal in Egypt, Lebanon, Iran, Syria and Yemen, except when a woman's life is at risk.

 

I disagree with leaving it up to individual states.

A woman's ability to make decisions about her body, life and future is a basic human right that should be protected at the national level. Each and every woman in the US should be entitled to the same freedoms  — and how they choose to exercise those freedoms should be left entirely up to them.

Yes that's true, a woman's body and anyone's body it's their own and they should be able to make their own decisions, generally speaking. When it comes to another 'person's' life, in this case the fetus, which is regarded differently by different states, then things get complicated very much and that's why we have what we have at the moment. The US isn't like Israel or let's say Sweden, but a federation of states where laws can be very similar or very different. As an example consider the death penalty which is legal in some states and illegal in some other states.

[Kenemet]

8 hours ago, MrAnderson said:

I don't know the percentage of the women who will be forced under the circumstances to go along with a pregnancy which is a result of rape or incest or being forced to give birth to a child which will have fatal abnormalities . I guess it's very small but there are cases and that's something awful and shouldn't happen. But there is a way out of it. The costs can be easily covered by some online fundraising in a matter of days or few weeks as there are many people who will help. Most states allow abortions up to the 24th week in the pregnancy other up to the 16th week in the pregnancy. But time exists and costs can be covered.

GoFundMe was not designed to replace health insurance.  Or access to health care.  Imagine if you had a serious and potentially life-threatening condition (appendicitis, for example) and no physician would treat you for fear of being imprisoned and fined (Texas law: https://www.texastribune.org/2022/08/25/texas-trigger-law-abortion/)

It's not just victims of rape and incest (or abnormal fetal development) who need abortion procedures.  So do ectopic pregnancies, and in the case of endometriosis, the D&C (an abortion procedure) is done in an attempt to stop abnormal bleeding.  

In some cases the person would have to move out of the state permanently as well -- in Texas, one man is trying to find out who persuaded his former partner to have an abortion so he could turn in that person for criminal prosecution (https://apnews.com/article/texas-abortion-ban-82c929271a33ee23962958127be59e3e)

Kinda difficult to figure out what kinds of money you'll need from a GoFundMe under those circumstances.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Just now, Kenemet said:

GoFundMe was not designed to replace health insurance.  Or access to health care.  Imagine if you had a serious and potentially life-threatening condition (appendicitis, for example) and no physician would treat you for fear of being imprisoned and fined (Texas law: https://www.texastribune.org/2022/08/25/texas-trigger-law-abortion/)

It's not just victims of rape and incest (or abnormal fetal development) who need abortion procedures.  So do ectopic pregnancies, and in the case of endometriosis, the D&C (an abortion procedure) is done in an attempt to stop abnormal bleeding.  

In some cases the person would have to move out of the state permanently as well -- in Texas, one man is trying to find out who persuaded his former partner to have an abortion so he could turn in that person for criminal prosecution (https://apnews.com/article/texas-abortion-ban-82c929271a33ee23962958127be59e3e)

Kinda difficult to figure out what kinds of money you'll need from a GoFundMe under those circumstances.

Furthemore, how many “I need to have “post-sex health care” style Go Fund Mes would happen before the loud and proud Christian Majority(tm) would get their knickers knotted and campaign to get that avenue closed? 

[MrAnderson]

28 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

GoFundMe was not designed to replace health insurance.  Or access to health care.  Imagine if you had a serious and potentially life-threatening condition (appendicitis, for example) and no physician would treat you for fear of being imprisoned and fined (Texas law: https://www.texastribune.org/2022/08/25/texas-trigger-law-abortion/)

It's not just victims of rape and incest (or abnormal fetal development) who need abortion procedures.  So do ectopic pregnancies, and in the case of endometriosis, the D&C (an abortion procedure) is done in an attempt to stop abnormal bleeding.  

In some cases the person would have to move out of the state permanently as well -- in Texas, one man is trying to find out who persuaded his former partner to have an abortion so he could turn in that person for criminal prosecution (https://apnews.com/article/texas-abortion-ban-82c929271a33ee23962958127be59e3e)

Kinda difficult to figure out what kinds of money you'll need from a GoFundMe under those circumstances.

I mentioned it as a potential and realistical alternative given the situation that isn't going to change anytime soon. And it could work very well in these cases. Don't expect a change in the laws of the each state. The question is what you can do if you don't have the money to travel outside your area and also pay for the abortion. The only way out of this is other people who gladly will fund you. The abortion costs are not that high. Also they cannot indict you for an abortion you have at another state as far as I know. If that was the case anyone who had an abortion elsewhere and choose to visit Texas will arrested for having an abortion but that's not happening.

Edited September 29 by MrAnderson

[MrAnderson]

23 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Furthemore, how many “I need to have “post-sex health care” style Go Fund Mes would happen before the loud and proud Christian Majority(tm) would get their knickers knotted and campaign to get that avenue closed? 

I don't think they will be able to block this way ago funding an abortion outside the state. Remember that outside Texas for example other laws apply. You just have to pick up a state where abortion is legal.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

2 minutes ago, MrAnderson said:

I don't think they will be able to block this way ago funding an abortion outside the state. Remember that outside Texas for example other laws apply. You just have to pick up a state where abortion is legal.

Ohh they’ll find a way, maybe “providing the funds to receive “post-sex healthcare” to minors is illegal”.

[MrAnderson]

1 minute ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Ohh they’ll find a way, maybe “providing the funds to receive “post-sex healthcare” to minors is illegal”.

They could try to but the internet and and the gofundme pages cannot be regulated by the state or let's say it will be very hard to do.