ADHD is responsible for modern humans…

[The Puzzler]

On 10/25/2024 at 2:04 AM, Kenemet said:

Yes, I agree.

But I was wondering whether the resistance to those genes might be more important in forming what is now modern civilization -- in other words, the ability to stick to a long and complex task (like knapping out certain types of weapons) might be the true "boost" that changed us into what we have now.

I have no data/papers/etc to back this up; it's mere speculation on my part.  However, as someone with ADHD (that's gotten worse with our modern doomscrolling and constant interruption by advertising), I do wonder if the real advantage is the non-ADHD rather than, as Puzzler initially pondered, ADHD.

And if the "modern normal" (non ADHD) is what made our more important complex inventions possible.  It's the inverse of her original idea.

 

 

I agree with cormac too, I don’t think thats impossible. Could be the breaking out of it, helped…now you’ve bought it up….good point, but science and other fields are filled with people of varying degrees of ADHD or similar unusually dissociate behaviour. But the general homo populace doesn’t carry it anymore…

Edited October 30, 2024 by The Puzzler

[Kenemet]

5 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

I agree with cormac too, I don’t think thats impossible. Could be the breaking out of it, helped…now you’ve bought it up….good point, but science and other fields are filled with people of varying degrees of ADHD or similar unusually dissociate behaviour. But the general homo populace doesn’t carry it anymore…

I think (personal experience) that the reason high level academics (and artists) are overrepresented in the ADHD community is that this personality does obsessive "deep dives" into things.  It's great for research in a controlled environment.  But... try getting an ADHD person away from an obsession and on to other things (like building a house, planting crops, etc) and you've got real issues.

Civilization is built more on teamwork and obsessive/focused-on-the-wrong-thing folks aren't that good at teamwork.

[The Puzzler]

9 hours ago, Kenemet said:

I think (personal experience) that the reason high level academics (and artists) are overrepresented in the ADHD community is that this personality does obsessive "deep dives" into things.  It's great for research in a controlled environment.  But... try getting an ADHD person away from an obsession and on to other things (like building a house, planting crops, etc) and you've got real issues.

Civilization is built more on teamwork and obsessive/focused-on-the-wrong-thing folks aren't that good at teamwork.

I think you’re right on this tbh.

[The Puzzler]

However it doesn’t answer the key to humans becoming more successful…did we use ADHD to our advantage….then just reason a few of the whole, to initiate the whole show…with followers following.

Only 3 men initiated Christianity…the Magi,one man bought down the Roman Empire, Alaric, only  one man bought Greek expansion to the world, Alexander…

It doesn’t take a whole culture or people, it just takes that one person, a shaman, a priest, an explorer, who has the unusual tenacity to bind the rest of humanity.

[The Puzzler]

Prob should have this in the Gobekli thread but never mind…

Happy Halloween everyone…it’s not about buying cheap Chinese junk, or about candy, it’s really about…like, then I have a sip of my wine and there’s a ducking cockroach in it….gross but both my Mother and Brother battled this bottled demon as I also do, till they died, but to be fair my Mum quit 20 years ago but could never even let a sip pass her lips since then and my brother was the sort to put a cockroach in your drink, even when I was young, my life with him consisted of not being pranked 24/7…he died of liver problems..cockroach in my drink, interesting.

Edited October 31, 2024 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

And I think i have ADHD…my brother took the cake. 
Take time today to remember loved family no longer here today, that’s what Halloween really is about.

You didn’t grow up with a brother like mine and it shows…and shaped me…
His every breath was a heartache or headache for every one around him, but I’ll see him again one day, on the dark side of the Moon x

Edited October 31, 2024 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

.anyway, interesting psychoanalytical study…on the ADHD enigma, he had “something” back then, then my mother wouldn’t let him eat chicken salt or anything else with MSG…we didn’t even know what ADHD was…

[The Puzzler]

[The Puzzler]

I still truly think this is what’s makes Homo sapiens human, good, bad, leaders, followers, builders, watchers, lost, found, addicts or straight, people with an edge or those who live on the edge. The greater amount of Homo learnt to temper it. 
Maybe that’s what the Bible is telling us…pull your head in, stop acting like me (God talking) take some responsibility for yourself, ffs…I said don’t eat the freaking apple, does anyone listen, no…don’t listen to the snakes….be normal…for some people, this is very hard to do.

Edited October 31, 2024 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

[The Puzzler]

https://www.healthline.com/health/adhd/evolution
ADHD and Evolution: Were Hyperactive Hunter-Gatherers Better Adapted Than Their Peers?

So contrary to Kenemets reasons, which seemed quite sound…

..which type is more successful and helped homo become who we are today…?

Specifically, they examined the DRD4 7R, a genetic variant that researchers say may be linkedTrusted Source to novelty-seeking, greater food and substance-use cravings, and ADHD symptoms.

Research showed that members of the nomadic community with ADHD — those who still had to hunt for their food — were better nourished than those without ADHD.

Edited October 31, 2024 by The Puzzler

[Piney]

8 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

However it doesn’t answer the key to humans becoming more successful…did we use ADHD to our advantage….then just reason a few of the whole, to initiate the whole show…with followers following.

Only 3 men initiated Christianity…the Magi,one man bought down the Roman Empire, Alaric, only  one man bought Greek expansion to the world, Alexander…

It doesn’t take a whole culture or people, it just takes that one person, a shaman, a priest, an explorer, who has the unusual tenacity to bind the rest of humanity.

You do realize the 3 Magi were just a "plot device" to attract Zuvan converts and fictional don't you? 

[Abramelin]

1 hour ago, Piney said:

You do realize the 3 Magi were just a "plot device" to attract Zuvan converts and fictional don't you? 

I think the visit of the 3 magi *could* have happened. COULD...

It is said 3 magi, coming from the east, 'followed a star'. And they ended up at Jesus' birthplace, and presented him with several gifts.

I find this story very similar to what Tibettan monks do when one of their lamas or dalai lamas has died.

They cast a horoscope, and they follow the directions this horscope tells them to find the new incarnation of their leader. In other words, they follow a 'star'.

When they arrive at the place where this leading lama is supposed to have reincarnated, they present the toddler with several items that once belonged to their deseased lama.

They then put them in front of the toddler, along with several items that never belonged to that lama.

If the toddler choses the right items, the ones that once belonged to their dead lama, he's considered to be the new incarnation of their lama.

And you can maybe still read about this procedure online. Decades ago these Tibettan monks 'found' the latest reincarnation of their lama in Spain.

[cladking]

8 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

Happy Halloween everyone…it’s not about buying cheap Chinese junk, or about candy, it’s really about…like, then I have a sip of my wine and there’s a ducking cockroach in it….gross but both my Mother and Brother battled this bottled demon as I also do, till they died, but to be fair my Mum quit 20 years ago but could never even let a sip pass her lips since then and my brother was the sort to put a cockroach in your drink, even when I was young, my life with him consisted of not being pranked 24/7…he died of liver problems..cockroach in my drink, interesting.

Thanks for sharing.

I've been a little down today in some small part because I always felt Halloween was stupid and it's been inescapable today.  I'm a little disappointed in my fellow man and our propensity to only stay in our comfort areas and to avoid even thinking outside the box.  

I'll try taking your advice about halloween.  A lot of my friends have always been risk takers and living on a razor's edge.  God bless every one of them and today God bless those who are no longer with me.  

[cormac mac airt]

2 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

https://www.healthline.com/health/adhd/evolution
ADHD and Evolution: Were Hyperactive Hunter-Gatherers Better Adapted Than Their Peers?

So contrary to Kenemets reasons, which seemed quite sound…

..which type is more successful and helped homo become who we are today…?

Specifically, they examined the DRD4 7R, a genetic variant that researchers say may be linkedTrusted Source to novelty-seeking, greater food and substance-use cravings, and ADHD symptoms.

Research showed that members of the nomadic community with ADHD — those who still had to hunt for their food — were better nourished than those without ADHD.

There’s nothing from what I can see suggesting Kenemet is wrong. ADHD essentially helped humanity reach the level of civilization and non-ADHD has pretty much taken over from there. ADHD is not the be all/end all of humanities journey as modern craniomorphology and likely the brains current “wiring” were reached between 100,000 and 35,000 BP which suggests there were multiple biological events in play that were advantageous to us. 
 

cormac

[Piney]

26 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

I think the visit of the 3 magi *could* have happened. COULD...

It is said 3 magi, coming from the east, 'followed a star'. And they ended up at Jesus' birthplace, and presented him with several gifts.

I find this story very similar to what Tibettan monks do when one of their lamas or dalai lamas has died.

They cast a horoscope, and they follow the directions this horscope tells them to find the new incarnation of their leader. In other words, they follow a 'star'.

When they arrive at the place where this leading lama is supposed to have reincarnated, they present the toddler with several items that once belonged to their deseased lama.

They then put them in front of the toddler, along with several items that never belonged to that lama.

If the toddler choses the right items, the ones that once belonged to their dead lama, he's considered to be the new incarnation of their lama.

And you can maybe still read about this procedure online. Decades ago these Tibettan monks 'found' the latest reincarnation of their lama in Spain.

Errrr...NO....

Zen Buddhists consider Tibetan superstition moronic and the Dummy Lama a idiot. 

No, it didn't happen and neither did the massacre of Innocents or the Census of Quirinius.

Most of the "gentile" Christians including Church fathers were former Zoroastrians trying to convert others.

The 3 Magi were added as a recruitment method and as a insult to the Jews. 

The historical Jesus was probably a plebian laborer or farmer. The author's of Matthew and Luke probably Zuvans. Neither knew him. 

[Piney]

41 minutes ago, cladking said:

Thanks for sharing.

I've been a little down today in some small part because I always felt Halloween was stupid and it's been inescapable today.  I'm a little disappointed in my fellow man and our propensity to only stay in our comfort areas and to avoid even thinking outside the box.  

I'll try taking your advice about halloween.  A lot of my friends have always been risk takers and living on a razor's edge.  God bless every one of them and today God bless those who are no longer with me.  

Translation....."I don't have friends". 😆

[Abramelin]

20 minutes ago, Piney said:

Zen Buddhists consider Tibetan superstition moronic and the Dummy Lama a idiot. 

Who cares about what Zen Buddhists think?

They came late.

[Abramelin]

22 minutes ago, Piney said:

Most of the "gentile" Christians including Church fathers were former Zoroastrians trying to convert others.

You are pushing ideas like this through our throats, but you never ever show something like proof.

Maybe the leaders of your religion may have convinced you, but that doesn't mean we should be convinced too.

My explanation for those 3 wise guys showing up at Jesus birth place looks far more 'logical' than your simple rejection of it.

[Piney]

2 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Who cares about what Zen Buddhists think?

They came late.

Yeah, well real spiritual traditions grow. 

I think Dummy lama a idiot too and the Abbot of Songshan thinks he's a pedo.

As for Jesus's birth. Any decent Biblical historian will tell you the whole Nativity is a fairy tale. 

[Piney]

Just now, Abramelin said:

You are pushing ideas like this through our throats, but you never ever show something like proof.

Maybe the leaders of your religion may have convinced you, but that doesn't mean we should be convinced too.

My explanation for those 3 wise guys showing up at Jesus birth place looks far more 'logical' than your simple rejection of it.

What "leaders of my religion"? Quakers don't have "leaders".

I learned Christian History at U. of Penn and Swarthmore while going to several Princeton lectures. The Nativity was fiction....

Don't be an ahole.....

[Abramelin]

1 minute ago, Piney said:

Yeah, well real spiritual traditions grow. 

I think Dummy lama a idiot too and the Abbot of Songshan thinks he's a pedo.

As for Jesus's birth. Any decent Biblical historian will tell you the whole Nativity is a fairy tale. 

I don't care what you think about the present lama.

I tried to inform you about an ancient Tibetan tradition, but all you post is cheap bull.

I tried to tell you that those 3 magi may have had a real historical bases.

Did it really happen?

.......

 

[Abramelin]

3 minutes ago, Piney said:

Don't be an ahole.....

I trie not to.

But you don't know what really happened, 2000 years ago.

Nor do I.

[Piney]

3 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

I don't care what you think about the present lama.

I tried to inform you about an ancient Tibetan tradition, but all you post is cheap bull.

I tried to tell you that those 3 magi may have had a real historical bases.

Did it really happen?

.......

 

ACCORDING TO MY PROFESSORS AND THIS GUY BART ERHMAN AT CHAPEL HILL.......

No....

@eight bits will tell you the same.😘

[Piney]

3 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

I trie not to.

But you don't know what really happened, 2000 years ago.

Nor do I.

The Nativity certainly didn't.