+OverSword Posted October 14 #1 Share Posted October 14 In this experiment scientists build a mouse habitat designed for minimum stress on mice built to hold a population optimally of about 6,000 mice. They put a few in Mouse Utopia and watched what happens to mouse society as the population grows. Do we live in a version of Mouse Utopia in the West? Maybe. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abramelin Posted October 14 #2 Share Posted October 14 When I read the title of this thread, the first thing I had to think of is the end of "The Green Mile". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opus Magnus Posted October 16 #3 Share Posted October 16 (edited) I think the major difference between John Calhoun's experiment and humanity is the observer. In the experiment Calhoun gives the mice an unlimited supply of water, food and shelter. In humanity the supplier of these necessities is a socialist government. In the experiment it is human to mouse, but in humanity it is human government to human. Many parts of the experiment are coming true in the industrialized world, but could turn out different with humanity because the relationship is different. In the Mouse Utopia, Calhoun is like God, but in humanity it is human, to human government, to God. Edited October 16 by Opus Magnus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coil Posted October 17 #4 Share Posted October 17 The experiment with mice was not reliable and could not be extrapolated to humanity because the experimenter did not resettle the mice that were born but kept them in a pen so that they simply had nowhere to go but to sit and eat. And when there were too many of them per unit of space, the population began to die out. And in natural conditions, the population of mice always remains, since there are huge areas of crops and lands, human houses where you can live, there is no overpopulation, since predators and people would reduce the population, so in nature, in natural conditions, everything is balanced. If we talk about humanity, then we are not threatened by overpopulation, the planet can feed 50 billion people.Humanity will perish not from overpopulation but for other reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted October 28 Author #5 Share Posted October 28 On 10/17/2024 at 2:09 PM, Coil said: The experiment with mice was not reliable and could not be extrapolated to humanity because the experimenter did not resettle the mice that were born but kept them in a pen so that they simply had nowhere to go but to sit and eat. And when there were too many of them per unit of space, the population began to die out. And in natural conditions, the population of mice always remains, since there are huge areas of crops and lands, human houses where you can live, there is no overpopulation, since predators and people would reduce the population, so in nature, in natural conditions, everything is balanced. If we talk about humanity, then we are not threatened by overpopulation, the planet can feed 50 billion people.Humanity will perish not from overpopulation but for other reasons. There was no overpopulation in the experiment. Once it reached about half capacity mouse society started to collapse and unhealthy mouse behavior became regular and the population didn't continue to expand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coil Posted October 31 #6 Share Posted October 31 On 10/28/2024 at 3:30 PM, OverSword said: There was no overpopulation in the experiment. Once it reached about half capacity mouse society started to collapse and unhealthy mouse behavior became regular and the population didn't continue to expand. All the same, artificial conditions lead to incorrect results. I do not trust artificial experiments. Our planet has been destroyed many times but some individuals survived, changed, and continued to evolve again.Behind Nature stands God, he knows better how to lead evolution than man in his experiments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted October 31 Author #7 Share Posted October 31 4 minutes ago, Coil said: All the same, artificial conditions lead to incorrect results. I do not trust artificial experiments. Our planet has been destroyed many times but some individuals survived, changed, and continued to evolve again.Behind Nature stands God, he knows better how to lead evolution than man in his experiments. But the question is have we created an artificial and unhealthy environment causing widespread mental illness, drug addiction, anti-social behavior etc. which is what happened in the experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coil Posted October 31 #8 Share Posted October 31 54 minutes ago, OverSword said: But the question is have we created an artificial and unhealthy environment causing widespread mental illness, drug addiction, anti-social behavior etc. which is what happened in the experiment. Of course, we ourselves consciously or unconsciously create the conditions. Nature returns to us what we ourselves bring into it. And animals are controlled by nature, so they cannot do harm to themselves or to anyone. But during the time of dinosaurs, animals became too predatory and caused suffering to nature and their brain could not evolve further, so nature destroyed large and predatory creatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opus Magnus Posted November 1 #9 Share Posted November 1 (edited) Industrialization typically boosts the population initially, and then the population stops growing. Every society that has been industrialized has faced this trend. There are multiple theories as to why this happens. When a nation is first industrialized the labor force is low, and industrialization is able to provide high wages. The increase in wages and access to necessities causes a rise in the population. This gives a larger workforce, and industrialization has to lower wages. This causes the population to stop rising. Prior to the industrialization most people were involved in agriculture, but after shifting to a factory setting the need for children changed1. Currently over 50% of the world has been industrialized2, and each nation has industrialized at different times, experienced it slightly differently, but overall similarly. Iran was early to industrialize in the 1920s compared to other Middle Eastern countries3. Even in conservative Iran abortion is higher for women working in factories, than for women who don't work4. As Russia industrialized in the late 1800's-early 1900's, women were targeted to join the workforce. This shocked the family, and perceptions of the meaning of it changed. Women were praised in Russia for their participation in factory work, but were exploited for cheap labor5. Women had become like worker bees. Japan industrialized around the same time as Russia, had a high female workforce, but was even more abusive to its women. People who were farmers were ripped off their land into factories6. Things were handled much better in western Europe and North America7, but has increased divorce rates. Gender roles reversed8. There was a global population spike caused by industrialization beginning in the 18th century9. While at first industrialization is tempting to many, the pleasure does not last, and is replaced by pain. Industrialized Revolutions at first boost the population of a nation, and then birth rates decline. Half the world has experienced this, or is currently in a phase of it. The other half of the world resists industrialization, but really has no choice but to be swallowed by the Hydra. It is a shift from the old ways of life, to the new. This shocks people and disrupts the family. Capitalism is boosted, socialism structures are constructed, and communism is theorized. This is similar to John Calhoun's Mouse Utopia experiment, but according to Revelation 12:11 the blood of the lamb finally overcomes the Hydra (KJV). 1. Aubhik Khan, "The Industrial Revolution and the Demographic Transition," Business Review, Q1 (2008), 12-14, https://www.philadelphiafed.org/-/media/frbp/assets/economy/articles/business-review/2008/q1/khan_demographic-transition.pdf 2. Katica Roy, "How is the Fourth Industrial Revolution changing our economy?" World Economic Forum, November 26, 2019, https://www.weforum.org/stories/2019/11/the-fourth-industrial-revolution-is-redefining-the-economy-as-we-know-it/ 3. Hassan Hakimian, "INDUSTRIALIZATION i. The Reza Shah Period And Its Aftermath, 1925-53," Encyclopedia Iranica, December 15, 2004, https://iranicaonline.org/articles/industrialization-i 4. Kavoussi, Nader. “The Effect of Industrialization on Spontaneous Abortion in Iran.” Journal of Occupational Medicine 19, no. 6 (1977): 419–23. https://www.jstor.org/stable/45003244 5. Alexandra Kollontai, "On the History of the Movement of Women Workers in Russia," first published 1920, https://www.marxists.org/archive/kollonta/1919/history.htm 6. Janet Hunter, "Japanese Women at Work, 1880-1920," History Today 43, no. 5 (1993), http://www.mrbuddhistory.com/uploads/1/4/9/6/14967012/japanese_women_at_work.pdf 7. History Skills, "The dramatic explosion of population sizes during the Industrial Revolution," accessed November 1, 2024, https://www.historyskills.com/classroom/year-9/year-9-population-explosion-reading/?srsltid=AfmBOoqqJOJoJ_BeKuyr7g1pSqe9ctQK8mf7Jb59VrXrYNn49CjMV0pn 8. Lori Hammer, "The Impact of the Industrial Revolution on Divorce Rates," Larimer Law LLC, July 3, n.d., https://www.larimerlawllc.com/post/the-impact-of-the-industrial-revolution-on-divorce-rates 9. Michael J. Coren, "Much of the modern world is explained by one population spike," Quartz, March 8, 2018, https://qz.com/1216675/much-of-the-modern-world-is-explained-by-one-population-spike Edited November 1 by Opus Magnus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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