Is the Universe Conscious?

[Portre]

Consciousness remains a mystery with no satisfactory scientific explanation.
Some researchers have suggested that consciousness is a fundamental property of the universe.
Panpsychism takes this idea one step further and suggests that everything in the universe is conscious.

Is the Universe Conscious?

[+and-then]

I believe that the universe is a created reality.  If it is conscious, that would not disprove the Creation belief.

[L.A.T.1961]

If it is, what is the speed of consciousness?

Just as we see distant objects expanding close to the speed of light should we look for the effects of consciousness spreading out across the universe from significant events?

 

[papageorge1]

Well in my Advaita Vedanta nondual (Goad and creation are not-two) belief system, the universe is a thought-form of consciousness. It's all consciousness at play.

[Antigonos]

50 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

If it is, what is the speed of consciousness?

Just as we see distant objects expanding close to the speed of light should we look for the effects of consciousness spreading out across the universe from significant events?

 

Interesting thought.

[seasmith]

On 10/21/2024 at 10:37 AM, Antigonos said:

Interesting thought.

"Speed of Light" is a faulty concept, and "speed of consciousness" would be likewise flawed .

As Dollard, Steinmetz and Tesla all agreed, what is metered as SoL is more correctly an EM  'rate of induction'; 

which is why the observed rate differs, depending on the medium of transmission eg: glass, air, water etc.
 

Speed of thought, (since "consciousness" remains undefined), may also vary;

 but we don't really comprehend the medium through which it is being induced, or propagated ?

Apparently something more 'aetheric' than air or water.

 

From a human perspective, we may as well say instant-aneous.

 

[L.A.T.1961]

13 hours ago, seasmith said:

Apparently something more 'aetheric' than air or water.

From a human perspective, we may as well say instant-aneous

 

 

It is the dust. 😉 *

* His Dark Materials

Everything must have a velocity relative to everything else. 

Except spooky action at a distance.

 

 

[Rlyeh]

On 10/22/2024 at 1:16 AM, L.A.T.1961 said:

If it is, what is the speed of consciousness?

Just as we see distant objects expanding close to the speed of light should we look for the effects of consciousness spreading out across the universe from significant events?

 

What is the effects of consciousness?

[Procyon]

This reminds me of Cleve Baxter's research and his theory of primary perception. He did a lot of experiments on plants and single-celled organisms that seemed to suggest that they could feel pain and exchange information over a distance, leading him to hypothesize that all organic matter is conscious on some level and interface with the world through a perception that is more innate, more "primary" than our five senses.

None of his theories had anything to do with inorganic matter or the universe itself though. I've also heard another concept in fringe science called "The Omega Point", which suggests that the universe is in the process of becoming a conscious being, essentially a god, as it moves towards the aforementioned omega point. It's just the technological singularity concept taken to its furthest extreme of encompassing the whole universe though, nothing to do with all matter being conscious.

I remember in Asimov's foundation series that one of the factions managed to imbue nonliving matter with consciousness, creating a living galaxy called galaxia, which seems the most similar to the panpsychism you're describing.

The speed of thought question could be resolved by a "dreams of a mad god" interpretation where we're all a simulation in the consciousness of some higher being. If the universe is one consciousness, it's effectively one point in spacetime and speed/distance becomes irrelevant, because thought has no need to travel through space or time. It just occurs wherever it needs to be with no intervening distance.

[L.A.T.1961]

6 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

What is the effects of consciousness?

It is considered by some that it allows the universe to exist.

 

[L.A.T.1961]

8 minutes ago, Procyon said:

This reminds me of Cleve Baxter's research and his theory of primary perception. He did a lot of experiments on plants and single-celled organisms that seemed to suggest that they could feel pain and exchange information over a distance, leading him to hypothesize that all organic matter is conscious on some level and interface with the world through a perception that is more innate, more "primary" than our five senses.

None of his theories had anything to do with inorganic matter or the universe itself though. I've also heard another concept in fringe science called "The Omega Point", which suggests that the universe is in the process of becoming a conscious being, essentially a god, as it moves towards the aforementioned omega point. It's just the technological singularity concept taken to its furthest extreme of encompassing the whole universe though, nothing to do with all matter being conscious.

I remember in Asimov's foundation series that one of the factions managed to imbue nonliving matter with consciousness, creating a living galaxy called galaxia, which seems the most similar to the panpsychism you're describing.

The speed of thought question could be resolved by a "dreams of a mad god" interpretation where we're all a simulation in the consciousness of some higher being. If the universe is one consciousness, it's effectively one point in spacetime and speed/distance becomes irrelevant, because thought has no need to travel through space or time. It just occurs wherever it needs to be with no intervening distance.

Simulation would also explain the observations of entanglement.

 

[Rlyeh]

57 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

It is considered by some that it allows the universe to exist.

 

The infamous von-Neumann interpretation.  That's nice.  Doesn't answer the question how you see the effects of consciousness.

 

Edited October 23 by Rlyeh

[L.A.T.1961]

15 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

The infamous von-Neumann interpretation.  That's nice.  Doesn't answer the question how you see the effects of consciousness.

 

I am not saying you can see effects, just how it might manifest and what to look for. 

Different parts of the universe operating with measurably different realities would be one and maybe a wave of change progressing through space between one reality and another. 

Of course the changes could not affect the physical laws as the effects would be catastrophic.

[Rlyeh]

1 hour ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

I am not saying you can see effects, just how it might manifest and what to look for. 

Different parts of the universe operating with measurably different realities would be one and maybe a wave of change progressing through space between one reality and another. 

Of course the changes could not affect the physical laws as the effects would be catastrophic.

How do you tell between a conscious rock and a non-conscious one?

[L.A.T.1961]

15 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

How do you tell between a conscious rock and a non-conscious one?

I don't expect a rock to be conscious in any way.

But it might have been created by some type of conscious action. 

The term conscious needs to be defined in the context it is used here, not considered a direct extension of human conscious and a logical thought process. 

 

 

[seasmith]

On 10/20/2024 at 11:01 PM, Portre said:

Consciousness remains a mystery with no satisfactory scientific explanation.
Some researchers have suggested that consciousness is a fundamental property of the universe.
Panpsychism takes this idea one step further and suggests that everything in the universe is conscious.

Is the Universe Conscious?

 

"Consciousness"

Given the broad expanse of meaning given to the term in the subsequent posts, 

it may be helpful to assign some different conceptual levels, or at least a few "panpsychism"
categories of consciousness.

Building on Jung's concepts of individual (e.g. ego consciousness) and collective un-conscious, a focussed ego-consciousness is commonly termed 'self-awareness'; 
while at the other end of the spectrum (collective) we can posit some "universal consciousness".

Provisionally this range would include every Thing from rocks to noggins. ?

 

This perspective more or less renders the question of "speed" as moot.

The question raised by Porto's linked article, paraphrased, is consciousness a "property" of universe, 
or is the universe (all-totality) all-aware ?

The first option is like assigning physical attributes to a non-physical aetheric architecture,
a mental  exercise rejected by the great minds mentioned previously.

The second option would require an individual <> universal mind-meld.

 

Western society is still struggling haplessly with that pesky "self-awareness" thingamabob.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 25 by seasmith
sp.

[openozy]

The universe is obviously everything, we are part of it but know very little of it.

[AZDZ]

I don't know about consciousness but I am reminded of a couple things possibly related.

 Exodus 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

Before answering with an actual name God states:

14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am, or I am who I am.

This has always sounded to me like God Itself may have been a product of whatever came before Creation.

2. Psalms 19 1:4 is probably one of the places with the most info about the universe that can be deemed from one spot that I can remember at the moment.

 

In Star Trek: Strange New Worlds episode S1:E6, “Lift Us Where Suffering Cannot Reach” the B story features a

Spoiler

Universe Created Being

in one of the new series most emotional tales.  The A story is very amazing too.

[Coil]

On 10/21/2024 at 2:46 PM, L.A.T.1961 said:

If it is, what is the speed of consciousness?

Just as we see distant objects expanding close to the speed of light should we look for the effects of consciousness spreading out across the universe from significant events?

The consciousness of the universe is totally aware of itself, and for us limited beings there are distances that need to be overcome, and we know that this object is close, and that one is many light years away, but these are all material distances.

Matter is God, and it is simultaneously in all living and non-living objects and plays its role. All supposedly non-living objects have consciousness, and even atoms have consciousness. There is no matter or living being that does not have consciousness. If there were no consciousness in matter or chemical elements, then life would not be possible to emerge by any combination.

Matter at the level of God is pure being, indivisible, inexhaustible, radiant radiation uniformly distributed throughout space. It potentially preserves in itself in a hidden form the divine Mind, which unfolds at the next levels and creates worlds.

[Resume]

1 hour ago, Coil said:

The consciousness of the universe is totally aware of itself, and for us limited beings there are distances that need to be overcome, and we know that this object is close, and that one is many light years away, but these are all material distances.

Matter is God, and it is simultaneously in all living and non-living objects and plays its role. All supposedly non-living objects have consciousness, and even atoms have consciousness. There is no matter or living being that does not have consciousness. If there were no consciousness in matter or chemical elements, then life would not be possible to emerge by any combination.

Matter at the level of God is pure being, indivisible, inexhaustible, radiant radiation uniformly distributed throughout space. It potentially preserves in itself in a hidden form the divine Mind, which unfolds at the next levels and creates worlds.

Boy this is a shedload of undemonstrated claims.

[Coil]

16 hours ago, Resume said:

Boy this is a shedload of undemonstrated claims.

Even in the Indian Upanishads it was said that matter is Brahman.

https://sriaurobindostudies.wordpress.com/2010/01/30/matter-also-is-brahman/

 

Scientists see matter but they cannot penetrate to the essence and see that it is God.Consciousness-spirit and matter always go together.

[Abramelin]

16 hours ago, Resume said:

Boy this is a shedload of undemonstrated claims.

You expected a 'final answer'?

[Resume]

1 hour ago, Coil said:

Even in the Indian Upanishads it was said that matter is Brahman.

https://sriaurobindostudies.wordpress.com/2010/01/30/matter-also-is-brahman/

Well that settles it.

1 hour ago, Coil said:

 

Scientists see matter but they cannot penetrate to the essence and see that it is God.Consciousness-spirit and matter always go together.

Another example of argument from assertion.

[Mr.UFO]

I have heard theories that the Earth is conscious, but not the universe. It's a strange, but interesting idea.

[seasmith]

On 11/2/2024 at 6:07 PM, Mr.UFO said:

I have heard theories that the Earth is conscious, but not the universe. It's a strange, but interesting idea.

 

I think that's what Vedic, and other teachings, are saying with expressions like 'big mind - small mind'  

or 'Cosmic Consciousness birthing Individual Consciousness'.

 

How wide can an individual psyche expand, say with the aid of DMT or ecstatic visions ?

Deeply enough to commune with other species psyches, according to many shamanic traditions; 

or even with that of "Mother Earth" and beyond. It's an ever opening question.

In the 'universal' scheme of beings, humans are but grasshoppers.