Statistics and the Paranormal

[Abramelin]

I’m very much an empirical, data, statistics, and science type of guy. So, it might be a surprise to learn that I’ve gone ghost hunting a number of times. Now, I’m not a paranormal enthusiast. I’m definitely a skeptic. However, in my view, being skeptical about something does not preclude collecting data about it. I also have friends I trust completely who are sure they’ve experienced paranormal activity. Plus, I don’t need much of an excuse to try something new and unusual!

Three of us skeptical ghost hunters have spent the night by ourselves in a variety of supposedly haunted prisons and insane asylums. We do the standard “lights out” investigations. That’s where you make your way around with nothing but flashlights! The idea is that your senses are most sensitive in these conditions to detect paranormal activity.

Using the statistics mindset of collecting a good amount of data, we bring a lot of equipment: still cameras, audio recorders, video cameras, and electro-magnetic field (EMF) detectors. Our approach is to make serious efforts to debunk anything unusual that we experience, either on the spot or by reviewing the evidence later.

https://statisticsbyjim.com/fun/ghost-hunting-statistics/

[+Desertrat56]

My opinion is that true skeptics are supposed to gather data and be open minded enough to actually use ALL the data without throwing out anything considered anomolous, no one can decide one way or another about anything without data.  The anomolous data is what I find most interetsing, because it could be equipment malfunction, someone mis recording something, or actual useful data.   It has to be researched and determined where it came from.

Edited October 28 by Desertrat56

[papageorge1]

Looked through the article and didn't see anything about 'statistics'.

[XenoFish]

At this point in time, I have zero reason to believe in the supernatural or paranormal.

Edited October 28 by XenoFish

[Abramelin]

20 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Looked through the article and didn't see anything about 'statistics'.

Heh. The whole site is about statistics.

[Abramelin]

9 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

At this point in time, I have zero reason to believe in the supernatural or paranormal.

I always like to quote @the13bats , although he once thought I was being sarcastic or something, but he once said something like, "if you cannot show any (physical) proof, all you are left with are stories."

And that's the point. I've experienced several 'paranormal' things in my life, but I have no proof at all, or they could be explained in a common sense way. And that's why I don't want to stress whatever I experienced.

Without proof: mere stories.

Period.

[papageorge1]

9 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Heh. The whole site is about statistics.

Can you please explain that?

sta·tis·tics

[stəˈtistiks]

noun

1. the practice or science of collecting and analyzing numerical data in large quantities, especially for the purpose of inferring proportions in a whole from those in a representative sample:

   "standard error is a mathematical tool used in statistics to measure variability" · "an introductory statistics course"

[XenoFish]

2 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

I always like to quote @the13bats , although he once thought I was being sarcastic or something, but he once said something like, "if you cannot show any (physical) proof, all you are left with are stories."

And that's the point. I've experienced several 'paranormal' things in my life, but I have no proof at all, or they could be explained in a common sense way. And that's why I don't want to stress whatever I experienced.

Without proof: mere stories.

Period.

When you look at this stuff long enough and there is more support in the mundane than the metaphysical, no reason the believe. 

[AZDZ]

Totally agree. Ghost Adventures used to be best at presenting evidence without feeling or emotional contamination but then Zak became a human thermometer. 😭

[openozy]

21 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Now, I’m not a paranormal enthusiast. I’m definitely a skeptic. However, in my view, being skeptical about something does not preclude collecting data about it.

If you are not skeptical you live in fantasy land but the paranormal is hard, aka impossible to pin down and collect data, it doesn't work like that. If you want to experience it you have to come in with a mindset open to any possibility, it can't be captured as we may like to think it can be. If you commit to being a skeptic you will experience nothing because you have already closed so many doors. The paranormal is all around us and you don't need to go to places with bad histories to find it.

[openozy]

17 hours ago, Abramelin said:

And that's the point. I've experienced several 'paranormal' things in my life, but I have no proof at all, or they could be explained in a common sense way. And that's why I don't want to stress whatever I experienced.

Without proof: mere stories.

And you will never have any proof for your stories but that doesn't mean you didn't experience it. You just have to accept it for what it is, after exhausting all mundane reasons or answers of course

[Abramelin]

1 hour ago, openozy said:

If you are not skeptical you live in fantasy land but the paranormal is hard, aka impossible to pin down and collect data, it doesn't work like that. If you want to experience it you have to come in with a mindset open to any possibility, it can't be captured as we may like to think it can be. If you commit to being a skeptic you will experience nothing because you have already closed so many doors. The paranormal is all around us and you don't need to go to places with bad histories to find it.

What you quoted weren't my words, but from the one who wrote the article.

[XenoFish]

2 hours ago, openozy said:

If you want to experience it you have to come in with a mindset open to any possibility

Then it's a question of experience  vs. created. Was it real or imagined? Which locks you in a paradoxical situation.

Quote

The paranormal is all around us and you don't need to go to places with bad histories to find it.

This comes down to an individuals reality tunnel. And relates to my comment above.

Edited October 29 by XenoFish

[openozy]

41 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Then it's a question of experience  vs. created. Was it real or imagined? Which locks you in a paradoxical situation.

My only experiences I really know for sure weren't imagined were the ones that were witnessed by other people, unless my imagination can create something others can see. I don't think any of them were imagined though.

[XenoFish]

Just now, openozy said:

My only experiences I really know for sure weren't imagined were the ones that were witnessed by other people, unless my imagination can create something others can see. I don't think any of them were imagined though.

Still the same issue, a story. Even multiple witnesses can recount similar events with slight variations. Except when the story is shared among the group and a dominate false memory can form. 

[+Desertrat56]

I found a podcaster that thinks all the paranormal, UFO and "religious" experiences are caused by plasma clouds, that they are alive and may be how life on earth was created.    The podcast is called The Library of the Untold.   I listened to a few and you have to get used to the guy's creepy voice, but after that it is interesting, just kind of jumbled.

[openozy]

9 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Still the same issue, a story. Even multiple witnesses can recount similar events with slight variations. Except when the story is shared among the group and a dominate false memory can form. 

Maybe but it's the best proof anyone could have with this and enough proof for me.

Edited October 29 by openozy

[openozy]

8 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

I found a podcaster that thinks all the paranormal, UFO and "religious" experiences are caused by plasma clouds, that they are alive and may be how life on earth was created.    The podcast is called The Library of the Untold.   I listened to a few and you have to get used to the guy's creepy voice, but after that it is interesting, just kind of jumbled.

I don't think the three are in anyway related so I'm not going with that theory. The creepy voice highlights the BS.

[+Desertrat56]

17 hours ago, openozy said:

I don't think the three are in anyway related so I'm not going with that theory. The creepy voice highlights the BS.

I thought so at first but decided to listen anyway and some of it made sense.   I am not 100% behind him but it is an interesting theory and makes more sense than a lot of other theories.

[TashaMarie]

On 10/29/2024 at 9:41 AM, openozy said:

If you are not skeptical you live in fantasy land but the paranormal is hard, aka impossible to pin down and collect data, it doesn't work like that. If you want to experience it you have to come in with a mindset open to any possibility, it can't be captured as we may like to think it can be. If you commit to being a skeptic you will experience nothing because you have already closed so many doors. The paranormal is all around us and you don't need to go to places with bad histories to find it.

And yet many believers claim they were hardened sceptics who did not believe in the paranormal at all.  One would say very closed to the concept.

[XenoFish]

On 10/29/2024 at 6:19 PM, openozy said:

Maybe but it's the best proof anyone could have with this and enough proof for me.

Except the proof is just a matter of perception and our perception is imperfect.

[Piney]

On 10/28/2024 at 5:17 PM, AZDZ said:

Totally agree. Ghost Adventures used to be best at presenting evidence without feeling or emotional contamination but then Zak became a human thermometer. 😭

Zak's a whiny tw@t who scares himself....

[Antigonos]

31 minutes ago, Piney said:

Zak's a whiny tw@t who scares himself....

Everything is demonic with him. He and Read would make a perfect couple 

[Ell]

I wonder how many ghosts of animals are wandering about in slaughter houses?

I have killed hundreds of moths in my room, but as yet I have not experienced any paranormal events. So if any ghost of moths indeed exist, I must assume that they all fled my room to happy moth ghost paradise; preferring that to staying in my presence.

 

If so, I am a moth ghost scarecrow!

[Guyver]

I was watching "Paranormal Caught on Tape" last night.  In one case presented, a couple from England who live in a very small apartment claimed they were having paranormal experiences that were driving them from their place and making the mother and two children sleep outside in a camper.  They (the couple) claimed to have set up cameras and recorded the poltergeist activity.  It was the most aggressive and active thing I've ever seen.  Doors slamming, things falling over, lights being turned off, security alarms blaring, and like ten events happening almost simultaneously.  In one clip the woman's hair was pulled while sleeping and the force caused her head to be pulled back.  

If claims of paranormal hauntings, poltergeists, whatever were real.....this would be the case that would prove it.  With that much non-human activity happening so frequently, if anyone wanted to prove it with science, etc.....all they have to do is pay for the family to go live somewhere else for a week and set up shop.  Let actual investigators, skeptics, scientists, whomever, move in there for the week and document that this is a real phenomenon.  

Why doesn't that happen?

My guess is because the whole thing is entirely fabricated. The more I watch television, the more I am convinced that it's all complete BS and contrived entertainment, lies, or hoaxes.  Its getting so bad that aside from sports, documentaries and such, I almost hate to watch tv anymore.