Chinese student to face criminal charges for voting in Michigan. Ballot will apparently count

[+OverSword]

Quote

 

A University of Michigan student who is from China and not a U.S. citizen allegedly voted Sunday in Ann Arbor and is being charged with two crimes, six days before a pivotal presidential election.

The filing of the charges was revealed Wednesday in a statement from Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson's office and the Washtenaw County Prosecutor's office. The press release didn't identify the student, describing him only as "a non-U.S. citizen."

 

Quote

The student's ballot is expected to count in the upcoming election — although it was illegally cast — because there is no way for election officials to retrieve it once it's been put through a tabulator, according to two sources familiar with Michigan election laws. 

Link

I wonder if voter ID could have made a difference here? 

Edited October 31 by OverSword

[Tatetopa]

15 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Link

I wonder if voter ID could have made a difference here? 

Locks on doors and voter ID's are to keep honest people honest.  Getting caught and charged might have even more serious repercussions for  a foreign citizen.

[+OverSword]

7 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Locks on doors and voter ID's are to keep honest people honest.  Getting caught and charged might have even more serious repercussions for  a foreign citizen.

If he were required to show eligibility then there would be one less illegal vote in Michigan and there would have been no crime.

[Tom1200]

This shouldn't be able to happen.  Only bona fide citizens should have any say in how a country is governed.  Taxation and representation and all that.  You need to sharpen up your systems and get some security measures in place.

Here in Brit-land we can't even enter the polling station without photo-id.  Then it's checked again as we beg for the ballot paper from the harridans on duty.  Each ballot paper has a unique number which is recorded against your name on the electoral roll.  In theory that ballot paper can be located at any time to check how you voted.  I believe we have the right to demand that some poor sod looks through 50,000 papers to demonstrate that my vote hasn't been overlooked, but that might just be a myth.

So in theory at least a non-citizen could only cast a vote be pretending to be a proper registered citizen, and if fraud were proven a specific ballot paper could be located and removed.  Are Americans really so laissez-faire about election security?

[+OverSword]

8 minutes ago, Tom1200 said:

Are Americans really so laissez-faire about election security?

People are religious about their respective parties and one party has insisted it's racism to demand identification from voters so now 50% of us believe that as if it came straight from Mohamed's mouth.  

[Doc Socks Junior]

I think that each birth in the United States should be witnessed by a government official, who injects the child with small micro-chip. This chip is tied to a voter ID card which contains all the applicable information about the person, including, obviously, that they're a citizen with the voting privileges entailed.

At ports of entry, we can also have a similar program to inject anyone entering the country and provide them with a similar ID card. If they're not citizens, of course, their ID card would reflect that in the lack of voting privileges.

At each election, you obviously need to present this ID card to vote. We could also put a little more stick into the carrot by requiring this mandatory Federal ID in order to buy and sell anything.

 I'm sure everyone will support this strict voter ID rule.

Anyone? Bueller?

 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

55 minutes ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

I think that each birth in the United States should be witnessed by a government official, who injects the child with small micro-chip. This chip is tied to a voter ID card which contains all the applicable information about the person, including, obviously, that they're a citizen with the voting privileges entailed.

At ports of entry, we can also have a similar program to inject anyone entering the country and provide them with a similar ID card. If they're not citizens, of course, their ID card would reflect that in the lack of voting privileges.

At each election, you obviously need to present this ID card to vote. We could also put a little more stick into the carrot by requiring this mandatory Federal ID in order to buy and sell anything.

 I'm sure everyone will support this strict voter ID rule.

Anyone? Bueller?

 

It needs a pithy name… a mark or a register … OHH I KNOW … the Mark of the Best Nation On Earth.

[Doc Socks Junior]

5 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

It needs a pithy name… a mark or a register … OHH I KNOW … the Mark of the Best Nation On Earth.

Great minds...

I was thinking Best Election Administration and Security Technology, as a working acronym.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

2 minutes ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

Great minds...

I was thinking Best Election Administration and Security Technology, as a working acronym.

Maybe “tag” rather than technology, it explains what the object is better.

[Tom1200]

2 hours ago, OverSword said:

People are religious about their respective parties and one party has insisted it's racism to demand identification from voters so now 50% of us believe that as if it came straight from Mohamed's mouth.  

So what are you gonna be today?  A racist Nazi fascist? Deplorable? Or just plain garbage?  

Or a joy-filled new way forward, unburdened by what has been, and that which is or maybe may not become, unconnected to the last four disastrous years, with no responsibility for twenty million illegal immigrants or the crimes they cause.  

I think the choice next Tuesday is pretty obvious.  Hope y'all make the smart decision. XxX

[papageorge1]

Quote

Later, the UM student voter contacted the local clerk's office, asking if he could somehow get his ballot back, according to Benson's office.

So, I'm trying to understand. If the above hadn't occurred would nobody have been the wiser?

So, then do we not know how many times this happens?

Also thinking ahead, what should be required for proof of citizenship besides a self-signature?

I am one for tighter laws and checks in general.

[Golden Duck]

11 hours ago, Tom1200 said:

This shouldn't be able to happen.  Only bona fide citizens should have any say in how a country is governed.  Taxation and representation and all that.  You need to sharpen up your systems and get some security measures in place.

Here in Brit-land we can't even enter the polling station without photo-id.  Then it's checked again as we beg for the ballot paper from the harridans on duty.  Each ballot paper has a unique number which is recorded against your name on the electoral roll.  In theory that ballot paper can be located at any time to check how you voted.  I believe we have the right to demand that some poor sod looks through 50,000 papers to demonstrate that my vote hasn't been overlooked, but that might just be a myth.

So in theory at least a non-citizen could only cast a vote be pretending to be a proper registered citizen, and if fraud were proven a specific ballot paper could be located and removed.  Are Americans really so laissez-faire about election security?

You make things so overcomplicated and violate the sanctity of the secret ballot.

Our security is aligned with privacy legislation.

No ID needed.  No fraud.

Couldn't be simpler.

[Gromdor]

18 hours ago, OverSword said:

Link

I wonder if voter ID could have made a difference here? 

No.  Michigan has Voter ID Voter ID in Michigan - Ballotpedia

[Gromdor]

16 hours ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

I think that each birth in the United States should be witnessed by a government official, who injects the child with small micro-chip. This chip is tied to a voter ID card which contains all the applicable information about the person, including, obviously, that they're a citizen with the voting privileges entailed.

At ports of entry, we can also have a similar program to inject anyone entering the country and provide them with a similar ID card. If they're not citizens, of course, their ID card would reflect that in the lack of voting privileges.

At each election, you obviously need to present this ID card to vote. We could also put a little more stick into the carrot by requiring this mandatory Federal ID in order to buy and sell anything.

 I'm sure everyone will support this strict voter ID rule.

Anyone? Bueller?

 

Neuralink? Can connect to the internet too.

[+OverSword]

2 hours ago, Gromdor said:

No.  Michigan has Voter ID Voter ID in Michigan - Ballotpedia

So failed to check it then.  Democrats 

[Gromdor]

6 minutes ago, OverSword said:

So failed to check it then.  Democrats 

No, he actually had a valid photo ID.  Problem is that photo ID's don't show citizenship.

[+OverSword]

2 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

No, he actually had a valid photo ID.  Problem is that photo ID's don't show citizenship.

Make up your mind, he was registered to vote or not?  They checked that or not?

[Gromdor]

Just now, OverSword said:

Make up your mind, he was registered to vote or not?  They checked that or not?

LOL, Didn't you read your own link?  He registered to vote and used a photo ID.

[+OverSword]

3 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

LOL, Didn't you read your own link?  He registered to vote and used a photo ID.

And they didn't ensure eligibility.  Democrats. 

[Gromdor]

Just now, OverSword said:

And they didn't ensure eligibility.  Democrats. 

How long do you think it takes?  The article says he registered and voted Sunday. 

He then realized his mistake and went to the Dean and tried to get his ballot back.  The article was printed Wednesday.  Everything happened in the span of 2-3days.  I think that was an awesome job of catching someone (but he confessed, so that might not count).

During this conversation, I couldn't help notice that you kept leaping from one false conclusion to another-  You thought that there was no photo ID and you thought they didn't check it.  

[papageorge1]

2 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

How long do you think it takes?  The article says he registered and voted Sunday. 

He then realized his mistake and went to the Dean and tried to get his ballot back.  The article was printed Wednesday.  Everything happened in the span of 2-3days.  I think that was an awesome job of catching someone (but he confessed, so that might not count).

During this conversation, I couldn't help notice that you kept leaping from one false conclusion to another-  You thought that there was no photo ID and you thought they didn't check it.  

So, doesn't the issue become: what does constitute proof of citizenship? Birth certificate or citizenship papers?

Should we have a proof of citizenship card that everyone must have to vote?

 

[Gromdor]

26 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

So, doesn't the issue become: what does constitute proof of citizenship? Birth certificate or citizenship papers?

Should we have a proof of citizenship card that everyone must have to vote?

 

To be honest, we do have a system to verify citizenship.  The problem lies in the fact that we don't want automatic or nationalized voter registration.  So there is a seperate step which varies from state to state to register or remove registery of voters.  That's where we get the problem of people voting in more than one state or having to prove citizenship.  It's stupid to have to prove you are a citizen to a government that already knows but that extra hassle is the reason why they want to do it.

[papageorge1]

44 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

To be honest, we do have a system to verify citizenship.  The problem lies in the fact that we don't want automatic or nationalized voter registration.  So there is a seperate step which varies from state to state to register or remove registery of voters.  That's where we get the problem of people voting in more than one state or having to prove citizenship.  It's stupid to have to prove you are a citizen to a government that already knows but that extra hassle is the reason why they want to do it.

Thanks for responding. You seem knowledgeable.

So what went wrong in this Michigan case? Seems to me it is we just accept signature verification of citizenship. What would be the step for ensuring citizenship without this self-declared signature being sufficient.

[Gromdor]

40 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Thanks for responding. You seem knowledgeable.

So what went wrong in this Michigan case? Seems to me it is we just accept signature verification of citizenship. What would be the step for ensuring citizenship without this self-declared signature being sufficient.

Same day registration and the immediate tabulation of the vote is what I would say went wrong.  What went right was that the guy was caught in literally a day.

I don't mind your idea of a "Citizen Card".  It can be your Social Security card with a chip like a credit card.  Ditch the whole register to vote system and use the database we use to confirm citizenship as verification.  Doesn't even have to have a photo- when you swipe it, whoever reads it gets a pop up picture to compare your face to.  Picture can be from the driver's license photo database or where ever.  As biometric/facial ID tech progresses we can get rid of the card too.  Your body becomes the card.

Seems like we are pushing for a photo/video database anyways with all these demands for picture ID.  

[Tatetopa]

22 hours ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

I think that each birth in the United States should be witnessed by a government official, who injects the child with small micro-chip. This chip is tied to a voter ID card which contains all the applicable information about the person, including, obviously, that they're a citizen with the voting privileges entailed.

At ports of entry, we can also have a similar program to inject anyone entering the country and provide them with a similar ID card. If they're not citizens, of course, their ID card would reflect that in the lack of voting privileges.

At each election, you obviously need to present this ID card to vote. We could also put a little more stick into the carrot by requiring this mandatory Federal ID in order to buy and sell anything.

 I'm sure everyone will support this strict voter ID rule.

Anyone? Bueller?

 

Elon Musk would bid on providing the chips.