UK must reverse Brexit if Donald Trump wins election, Keir Starmer told

[pellinore]

Britain must urgently rebuild ties with Europe if Donald Trump is elected on Tuesday, pro-EU campaigners have warned.

With the prospect of a brutal global trade war looming, critics of the UK’s current Brexit deal have said the country needs to rejoin the customs union, single market or the bloc itself to shield itself from the devastating fallout.

The former president has threatened to impose tariffs on all imports to America if he returns to the White House, which would cripple the UK and global economy. The US is Britain’s single biggest trade partner by far, above Germany, the Netherlands, France and China.

And Mr Trump has threatened a blanket 10 per cent tariff on all imports, with the levy rising as high as 60 per cent for goods from China. He has said “tariff is my favourite word”, but critics have warned the fallout of his protectionism would be higher prices for consumers in the US and globally.

And, amid fears a solitary UK would face a heightened impact, campaigners called for Sir Keir Starmer to urgently rebuild trade ties with the EU to insulate the country from the trade war that would follow Mr Trump’s re-election.

UK must reverse Brexit if Donald Trump wins election, Keir Starmer told | The Independent

Edited November 6 by pellinore

[L.A.T.1961]

Flawed logic.

If the UK wants to avoid tariffs imposed on the EU not being a member is a good place to start.

In the meantime what's going on -

US and UK back new 'Atlantic Declaration' for economic cooperation

The joint declaration described the partnership as the "first of its kind" in covering the broad spectrum of the two countries' economic, technological, commercial and trade relations.

Under the plan, Britain and the United States will strengthen their supply chains, develop technologies of the future and invest in one another's industries, British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak's office said.

The two countries also agreed to work together on ensuring the safe development of AU technology, starting with Britain hosting a global summit later this year.

The United States was looking to Britain to help lead a common approach on AI safety and regulation, Biden said at a joint news conference with Sunak in Washington.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-uk-back-new-atlantic-declaration-economic-cooperation-2023-06-08/

[+Desertrat56]

THe president can't impose tariffs willly nilly.  He has to present them to Congress, who votes on them and then passes it to the senate.   The florida man did not win an election for dictator, he won as a representative and balance of power between the two arms of legislators.

[Duke Wellington]

1 hour ago, pellinore said:

Britain must urgently rebuild ties with Europe if Donald Trump is elected on Tuesday, pro-EU campaigners have warned.

With the prospect of a brutal global trade war looming, critics of the UK’s current Brexit deal have said the country needs to rejoin the customs union, single market or the bloc itself to shield itself from the devastating fallout.

The former president has threatened to impose tariffs on all imports to America if he returns to the White House, which would cripple the UK and global economy. The US is Britain’s single biggest trade partner by far, above Germany, the Netherlands, France and China.

And Mr Trump has threatened a blanket 10 per cent tariff on all imports, with the levy rising as high as 60 per cent for goods from China. He has said “tariff is my favourite word”, but critics have warned the fallout of his protectionism would be higher prices for consumers in the US and globally.

And, amid fears a solitary UK would face a heightened impact, campaigners called for Sir Keir Starmer to urgently rebuild trade ties with the EU to insulate the country from the trade war that would follow Mr Trump’s re-election.

UK must reverse Brexit if Donald Trump wins election, Keir Starmer told | The Independent

Use everything, claim everything, flip around all that can be flipped, to portray and push for the narrative of we must re-join the EU.

Try it, and we`ll do to whoever leads it, what has just be done to Harris.

[itsnotoutthere]

[+and-then]

10 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

The florida man did not win an election for dictator,

This^ is what we've been saying all along.  Nice to see you've accepted that he isn't the end of the world.

[Unusual Tournament]

19 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

THe president can't impose tariffs willly nilly.  He has to present them to Congress, who votes on them and then passes it to the senate.   The florida man did not win an election for dictator, he won as a representative and balance of power between the two arms of legislators.

Well if he can and does it will be Europe and the UK as the first victims of his “America First" protectionist trade policy. The EU and the UK now have something in common

[Setton]

One thing I hope to see off the back of this election is the UK uncoupling from the US, particularly if the US surrenders to Putin's demands.

The pro-leave crowd constantly told us we were "taking back control". At the moment we've gone from one of 27, with a lot of influence, to effectively one of 51, with no say in our own foreign policy.

[itsnotoutthere]

Keir Starmer left reeling following collapse of Brexit ally’s government – hours after Donald Trump victory

Sir Keir Starmer‘s hopes of restoring the relationship between Britain and the European Union after Brexit have taken a knock after the collapse of key ally’s government– just hours after Donald Trump secured a second presidential term.

Europe’s largest economy Germany is now reeling after the ruling coalition fell in the wake of Olaf Scholz’s decision to sack his finance minister.

Sir Keir had developed a close working relation with the German chancellor since his election victory and just last week, the prime minister secured the first major success of his plans for a Brexit reset with a landmark defence deal between the two countries.

A general election is now expected in Germany early next year, with the unpopular Mr Scholz widely expected to lose.

The German government’s collapse came after Sir Keir was urged to step up his plans for a great reset in relations with Europe in the wake of Mr Trump’s election victory.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/keir-starmer-left-reeling-following-collapse-of-brexit-ally-s-government-hours-after-donald-trump-victory/ar-AA1tG1Jo?ocid=BingHp01&cvid=1a16fcadfaad4315f23ae623c27cf560&ei=13

(p.s. Don't know why Trumps name is being brought into this ((or perhaps I do)) but this was happening before the election.

Edited November 7 by itsnotoutthere

[+Desertrat56]

14 hours ago, and-then said:

This^ is what we've been saying all along.  Nice to see you've accepted that he isn't the end of the world.

Who are you talking to?   I have said all along that we need to pay more attention to who is elected in congress and the senate than the president, who has term limits.   Yes, I hate the florida man but I also hate the democratic party as much as I hate the republican party.   And YES I was Wrong to think he wouldn't win this time.   Is that what you want?  

Edited November 7 by Desertrat56

[+OverSword]

11 hours ago, Setton said:

One thing I hope to see off the back of this election is the UK uncoupling from the US, particularly if the US surrenders to Putin's demands.

The pro-leave crowd constantly told us we were "taking back control". At the moment we've gone from one of 27, with a lot of influence, to effectively one of 51, with no say in our own foreign policy.

Britain can stay but we ask that you please uncouple. 

[Unusual Tournament]

On 11/8/2024 at 12:19 AM, itsnotoutthere said:

Keir Starmer left reeling following collapse of Brexit ally’s government – hours after Donald Trump victory

Sir Keir Starmer‘s hopes of restoring the relationship between Britain and the European Union after Brexit have taken a knock after the collapse of key ally’s government– just hours after Donald Trump secured a second presidential term.

Europe’s largest economy Germany is now reeling after the ruling coalition fell in the wake of Olaf Scholz’s decision to sack his finance minister.

Sir Keir had developed a close working relation with the German chancellor since his election victory and just last week, the prime minister secured the first major success of his plans for a Brexit reset with a landmark defence deal between the two countries.

A general election is now expected in Germany early next year, with the unpopular Mr Scholz widely expected to lose.

The German government’s collapse came after Sir Keir was urged to step up his plans for a great reset in relations with Europe in the wake of Mr Trump’s election victory.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/keir-starmer-left-reeling-following-collapse-of-brexit-ally-s-government-hours-after-donald-trump-victory/ar-AA1tG1Jo?ocid=BingHp01&cvid=1a16fcadfaad4315f23ae623c27cf560&ei=13

(p.s. Don't know why Trumps name is being brought into this ((or perhaps I do)) but this was happening before the election.

I have little nice to say about Starmer but he’s read this correctly. Trump will gut NATO. He will lift military GDP contributions to the point that Europe might as well defend itself. No sane British OR European government will again allow themselves to become unstable due to the ebbs and flows of American politics, whether defence or trade, NATO will be replaced with a European army and it’s just a point of Britain swallowing its pride and rejoining the EU. 
 

For the UK there is no other choice 
 

 

[stevewinn]

8 hours ago, Unusual Tournament said:

I have little nice to say about Starmer but he’s read this correctly. Trump will gut NATO. He will lift military GDP contributions to the point that Europe might as well defend itself. No sane British OR European government will again allow themselves to become unstable due to the ebbs and flows of American politics, whether defence or trade, NATO will be replaced with a European army and it’s just a point of Britain swallowing its pride and rejoining the EU. 
 

For the UK there is no other choice 
 

 

Its a possibility in a world were anything is possible, we know the EU's ultimate goal is a federation and the creation of a EU army is just one ambition.

I doubt NATO will be replaced any time soon, in fact its just increased membership. Sweden, Finland. 32 members in NATO, 23 are EU members.

I think theoretically if NATO disbanded, it would be replaced by a construct much more powerful and greater scope, would a Union consisting of, America, Canada, United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, Japan. South Korea. possibly even India. clearly this group moves away from a more European outlook ie: Russian focused to more Chinese global focused.

We are already seeing a swing in the UK towards this group of countries in terms of future military co-operation. Japan future 6th Gen fighter, Australian nuclear subs, Canada & Australia selecting the UKs type 26 Global combat warship. UK offered its Aircraft carrier design to India. UK miliary holding exercises in South Korea.

and lets not forget coming up on the horizon is Britain's membership of Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) the date of us joining 15th & 24th December 2024.

CPTPP is a free trade area spanning five continents and almost 600 million people. Australia, Brunei Darussalam, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, Peru, New Zealand, Singapore and Vietnam.

This fits in with a more post Brexit Global looking UK, If the EU creates its army we might see the UK associated but not a member.

Joining the CPTPP kills dead the UK returning to the EU. and having left the EU its now within our gift to join such a union. 

It's been 8 years since the Brexit vote. the world has moved on.

[Duke Wellington]

It is of a course a well known and long running fantasy of the Dems that Trump will take the US out of NATO.

Ukraine should be cut loose. Its not rocket science to realise that at no point during their conflict with Russia have they had any route to victory. There is only one route which will not happen, and that is NATO having a direct military confrontation with Russia. This will never happen because that is nuclear war and an end of the world as we know it. Neither the US, UK, or France, will commit nuclear suicide by stepping over that line.

The EU would make an error of judgement if it decided to take up the Ukrainian crusade. Again, it will not affect the outcome of the conflict. But what it will do is continue the pointless throwing away of Ukrainian lives and drain the blocks resources. President Zelenskyy has been a fool. He has listened to western leaders whispering sweet nothings of NATO and EU membership into his ear while failing to factor in his countries weak strategic position on the border of Russia, and weak strategic position against what is a nuclear superpower.

I have no doubt that the outcome will be that he gets a mansion, and pension for life, in some western country when he is forced to flee. But what about the millions of dead Ukrainians? 

Our future is with the US, not with the EU. You never align yourself with the loosing side and the US rules the roost by far. Furthermore the Anglo-American realm, is our realm. We share blood, culture, and history. You don`t turn you back on your own kind. That mistake was made with the Commonwealth and we sure as hell don`t want to make that mistake with our realm for the Europeans.

We need to be ever on our guard against political leaders pursuing agendas contrary to our national interest. That includes those wanting to break up the UK, those wanting to create a European Superstate with us in it, and those wanting to degrade our relationship with the US. All of them share a couple of things in common - they hate Britain and they hate the USA.

[Duke Wellington]

We have been doing better out of the EU than in it:

Furthermore, we aren`t paying for Poland, numerous EU internal initiatives, or the child benefits of Eastern Europeans on our territory. German industry has for a while now had economic problems (caused by a lack of gas lmao), and do we really want to be aligned with a country that has their reputation?

[stevewinn]

A quick reminder, and further to that the UK was the worlds tenth largest exporter in 2016. 2017, 2018. 2019, dropping to 12th in 2020. We just so happen to leave the EU on the 31st January 2020, just three years later we've climbed the table from 12th to 4th. funny enough, We was the worlds 5th largest exporter in 1973 when we joined the EEC/EU. coincidence i think not.

[Unusual Tournament]

8 hours ago, stevewinn said:

Its a possibility in a world were anything is possible, we know the EU's ultimate goal is a federation and the creation of a EU army is just one ambition.

I doubt NATO will be replaced any time soon, in fact its just increased membership. Sweden, Finland. 32 members in NATO, 23 are EU members.

I think theoretically if NATO disbanded, it would be replaced by a construct much more powerful and greater scope, would a Union consisting of, America, Canada, United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, Japan. South Korea. possibly even India. clearly this group moves away from a more European outlook ie: Russian focused to more Chinese global focused.

We are already seeing a swing in the UK towards this group of countries in terms of future military co-operation. Japan future 6th Gen fighter, Australian nuclear subs, Canada & Australia selecting the UKs type 26 Global combat warship. UK offered its Aircraft carrier design to India. UK miliary holding exercises in South Korea.

and lets not forget coming up on the horizon is Britain's membership of Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP) the date of us joining 15th & 24th December 2024.

CPTPP is a free trade area spanning five continents and almost 600 million people. Australia, Brunei Darussalam, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, Peru, New Zealand, Singapore and Vietnam.

This fits in with a more post Brexit Global looking UK, If the EU creates its army we might see the UK associated but not a member.

Joining the CPTPP kills dead the UK returning to the EU. and having left the EU its now within our gift to join such a union. 

It's been 8 years since the Brexit vote. the world has moved on.

I didn’t suggest NATO would disband but be gutted to the point it’s a paper tiger with U.S. involvement down to a bare minimum. Nor is it thanks to Trump that NATO has enlarged. This is ole school neo-con Biden’s doing. 
 

It doesn’t help your argument when Trump and Co. talk about a a two tier alliance based on GDP contributions and using the threat of Russian revisionism as a weapon to make NATO fall in line with his policies. 

Paper tiger NATO could possibly release American assets to confront China but I’m sceptical that Trump would be the one to reinvent and NATO of the east when he wants to charge Taiwan for American protection and openly accuses Taiwan of stealing semiconductor technology from America. 
 

You’re coming across as very MAGAish, Steve if you think Trump is gonna build something new. He’s not. His goal is to take away and not add but subtract from the current security architecture the Western world enjoys.

CPTPP died with Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. China and Russia are looking further with BRICC’s. This horse bolted long ago and the UK knows it.

Whether the UK rejoins the EU or does a Norway tie instead is only a matter of time. 

 

[+Desertrat56]

6 minutes ago, Unusual Tournament said:

I didn’t suggest NATO would disband but be gutted to the point it’s a paper tiger with U.S. involvement down to a bare minimum. Nor is it thanks to Trump that NATO has enlarged. This is ole school neo-con Biden’s doing. 
 

It doesn’t help your argument when Trump and Co. talk about a a two tier alliance based on GDP contributions and using the threat of Russian revisionism as a weapon to make NATO fall in line with his policies. 

Paper tiger NATO could possibly release American assets to confront China but I’m sceptical that Trump would be the one to reinvent and NATO of the east when he wants to charge Taiwan for American protection and openly accuses Taiwan of stealing semiconductor technology from America. 
 

You’re coming across as very MAGAish, Steve if you think Trump is gonna build something new. He’s not. His goal is to take away and not add but subtract from the current security architecture the Western world enjoys.

CPTPP died with Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. China and Russia are looking further with BRICC’s. This horse bolted long ago and the UK knows it.

Whether the UK rejoins the EU or does a Norway tie instead is only a matter of time. 

 

How exactly will Mr. T. gutt NATO without the help of the rest of the NATO members?   I think you give him too much power.

[Unusual Tournament]

2 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

How exactly will Mr. T. gutt NATO without the help of the rest of the NATO members?   I think you give him too much power.

He’s already signalled a two tier alliance based on GDP contributions. Pay up and you get protection don’t and we’ll look the other way when Russia comes around. 
 

Trump could stop funding Ukraine, a very real possibility. Trump could redivert American strategic forces away from Europe and confronting Russia back to America or Israel (his little darling). Selling high technologies to NATO on a score card aggregated system. Etc
 

 

[Unusual Tournament]

On 11/7/2024 at 10:42 PM, Setton said:

One thing I hope to see off the back of this election is the UK uncoupling from the US, particularly if the US surrenders to Putin's demands.

The pro-leave crowd constantly told us we were "taking back control". At the moment we've gone from one of 27, with a lot of influence, to effectively one of 51, with no say in our own foreign policy.

The UK and Europe went out on a limb to please Biden  and the neo-cons over Ukraine by confronting Russia when their interests lay with looking the other way. They confiscated Russian assets and made an enemy outta Russia. All for what? So Trump can play nice with Putin? 
 

So every 4 years a new bi-polar American establishment can dictate a new 4 years defence policy. Europe needs to decouple and down grade NATO on their terms because at it stands NATO is unworkable 

[pellinore]

2 hours ago, Unusual Tournament said:

The UK and Europe went out on a limb to please Biden  and the neo-cons over Ukraine by confronting Russia when their interests lay with looking the other way. They confiscated Russian assets and made an enemy outta Russia. All for what? So Trump can play nice with Putin? 

So appeasement is the correct policy just in case an ignorant populist is elected POTUS?

[Unusual Tournament]

6 minutes ago, pellinore said:

So appeasement is the correct policy just in case an ignorant populist is elected POTUS?

No! I’m saying a steady and reliable policy from America. 

[+Desertrat56]

5 hours ago, Unusual Tournament said:

He’s already signalled a two tier alliance based on GDP contributions. Pay up and you get protection don’t and we’ll look the other way when Russia comes around. 
 

Trump could stop funding Ukraine, a very real possibility. Trump could redivert American strategic forces away from Europe and confronting Russia back to America or Israel (his little darling). Selling high technologies to NATO on a score card aggregated system. Etc
 

 

Oh, he "signaled it"?   As if that means anything real.   He is not the dictator of the country, he has to be supported by congress and the senate and their votes are what decide where money goes or who looses support.   The florida man was not elected dictator.  He doesn't even have as much power as the UK prime minister.  Maybe you could take a civics class and learn how our government was designed and how it has been ruined by The Party(ies)

 

Edited November 10 by Desertrat56

[Unusual Tournament]

30 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Oh, he "signaled it"?   As if that means anything real.   He is not the dictator of the country, he has to be supported by congress and the senate and their votes are what decide where money goes or who looses support.   The florida man was not elected dictator.  He doesn't even have as much power as the UK prime minister.  Maybe you could take a civics class and learn how our government was designed and how it has been ruined by The Party(ies)

 

Let’s wait and see whether his words match reality. I bet they do

[Duke Wellington]

6 hours ago, Unusual Tournament said:

The UK and Europe went out on a limb to please Biden  and the neo-cons over Ukraine by confronting Russia when their interests lay with looking the other way. They confiscated Russian assets and made an enemy outta Russia. All for what? So Trump can play nice with Putin? 

So every 4 years a new bi-polar American establishment can dictate a new 4 years defence policy. Europe needs to decouple and down grade NATO on their terms because at it stands NATO is unworkable 

No, because Biden is an idiot.

Causing an unwinnable war, and applying pressure to the western world to go along in their support of it.