The Main Concern Now (imo) Is Women's Body Autonomy

[Harte]

18 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

I’m not commenting on policy, I was replying to someone who was insistent that abortion was being used as birth control. 

No?
 

Quote

So without a law allowing for abortion due to rape

Harte

[+OverSword]

20 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

I’m not commenting on policy, I was replying to someone who was insistent that abortion was being used as birth control. 

There were over 600k abortions in the US in 2019.  So rapes?  It actually is being used as birth control to a large extent.  I support women's right to do so but if we are going to talk about it we should at least be honest and not use rape or imminent death as a dog whistle.

[itsnotoutthere]

On 11/7/2024 at 12:15 AM, HerNibs said:

This terrifies me. Our state just added body autonomy/reproductive rights to our constitution.

Nibs

And how would that have worked out during Covid. It was the very same liberals that are crying now about women's bodily autonomy that were saying people should lose their jobs or be refused medical treatment if they chose not to be vaccinated. How do you square that circle? 

Edited November 8, 2024 by itsnotoutthere

[itsnotoutthere]

On 11/7/2024 at 6:22 AM, psyche101 said:

Really simple.

You don't get to make choices for other people. No more than other people have the right to make choices about your beliefs on the matter. 

Again... that choice presumably is for some reason different for covid presumably in your opinion, as I seem to remember you were one of the biggest cheerleaders for vaccines. 

Edited November 8, 2024 by itsnotoutthere

[+HerNibs]

10 minutes ago, itsnotoutthere said:

And how would that have worked out during Covid. It was the very same liberals that are crying now about women's bodily autonomy that were saying people should lose their jobs or be refused medical treatment if they chose not to be vaccinated. How do you square that circle? 

COVID vaccine protects others and yourself. Abortion is about one woman’s control over her own body.

Nibs

[itsnotoutthere]

11 minutes ago, HerNibs said:

COVID vaccine protects others and yourself. Abortion is about one woman’s control over her own body.

Nibs

The list of people with severe side effects runs into hundreds of thousands and deaths also, many would be leading perfectly healthy lives if they hadn't taken it..... what about their 'bodily autonomy'  or is it only women that should decide what happens to their own bodies.. 

Also, we were told that the vaccine would stop covid, in that case the people that were happy to take it were protected from Covid... Right?  So the ones that didn't want it were taking the risk, but we're happy to take that risk. 

Edited November 8, 2024 by itsnotoutthere

[Zebra3]

4 minutes ago, itsnotoutthere said:

The list of people with severe side effects runs into hundreds of thousands and deaths also, many would be leading perfectly healthy lives if they hadn't taken it..... what about their 'bodily autonomy'  or is it only women that should decide what happens to their own bodies.. 

We also had our jobs threatened. If you were military, you were discharged.

Edited November 8, 2024 by Zebra3

[itsnotoutthere]

3 minutes ago, Zebra3 said:

We also had our jobs threatened. If you were military, you were discharged.

Exactly.... so much for bodily autonomy. 

[+Razman]

Did anyone think to ask the fetus what it it wants?

[+OverSword]

52 minutes ago, HerNibs said:

COVID vaccine protects others and yourself. Abortion is about one woman’s control over her own body.

Nibs

And the unborn child she is carrying.  If we are going to talk about this stuff we should at least be honest.  I support the right of a woman to terminate a pregnancy without explanation for the first trimester, but this does not only affect her.  If abortion were legal when my 16 year old mother was carrying me and she had access to Planned Parenthood I think it likely that I would have been brutally killed and extracted.  Had that happened likely none of my siblings would ever have been conceived.  See how that does not only affect the pregnant woman?

Edited November 8, 2024 by OverSword

[Claira]

2 minutes ago, OverSword said:

And the unborn child she is carrying.  If we are going to talk about this stuff we should at least be honest.  I support the right of a woman to terminate a pregnancy without explanation for the first trimester, but this does not only affect her.  If abortion were legal when my 16 year old mother was carrying me and she had access to Planned Parenthood I think it likely that I would have been brutally killed and extracted.  Had that happened likely none of my siblings would ever have been conceived.  See how that does not only affect the pregnant woman?

More than 90% of all abortions take place during the first trimester, so that's probably when your mother would have had you 'brutally killed and extracted' (so dramatic lol). But you do raise an interesting issue — that of fetal rights and maternal autonomy. Should a fetus have the same rights as a live child? Should it have no rights? Or should it have increasing status with advancing gestation? And should those rights take precedence over a woman's right to decide what happens to her body?

[pellinore]

11 minutes ago, Claira said:

More than 90% of all abortions take place during the first trimester, so that's probably when your mother would have had you 'brutally killed and extracted' (so dramatic lol). But you do raise an interesting issue — that of fetal rights and maternal autonomy. Should a fetus have the same rights as a live child? Should it have no rights? Or should it have increasing status with advancing gestation? And should those rights take precedence over a woman's right to decide what happens to her body?

Should male m********ion be made illegal? It is killing the chance of a potentially viable fetus and allowing human cells to die. I think a law banning this would be unpopular and difficult to enforce, but would be quite logical. Go for it, Donny!

[+OverSword]

26 minutes ago, Claira said:

(so dramatic lol)

Is it?  I don't think it is.  I think if we are going to talk about it we should be brutally honest as it is a brutal and tragic thing.  But I do believe it has been a woman's prerogative since time out of mind and feel it is anti-liberty to ban it.

Edited November 8, 2024 by OverSword

[+HerNibs]

My opinion, is until it is viable outside the mothers body, it is the mothers choice.

Not arguing about the vaccine. My daughter died of ALS with a side of COVID.

Nibs

[+OverSword]

2 minutes ago, HerNibs said:

My opinion, is until it is viable outside the mothers body, it is the mothers choice.

Not arguing about the vaccine. My daughter died of ALS with a side of COVID.

Nibs

That time shortens with every year of medical advancement.  Are you sure you wouldn't prefer to put a reasonable time constraint on it?

[+HerNibs]

Just now, OverSword said:

That time shortens with every year of medical advancement.  Are you sure you wouldn't prefer to put a reasonable time constraint on it?

Second trimester. Third for extreme cases.

Nibs

[+OverSword]

50 minutes ago, HerNibs said:

Second trimester. Third for extreme cases.

Nibs

Extreme what?  The mother will die?  Fine.  Second trimester for elective abortion I don't agree with and would never pass federally.

[Golden Duck]

2 hours ago, itsnotoutthere said:

The list of people with severe side effects runs into hundreds of thousands and deaths also, many would be leading perfectly healthy lives if they hadn't taken it..... what about their 'bodily autonomy'  or is it only women that should decide what happens to their own bodies.. 

Also, we were told that the vaccine would stop covid, in that case the people that were happy to take it were protected from Covid... Right?  So the ones that didn't want it were taking the risk, but we're happy to take that risk. 

Where is this list of more than 100,000 people?

I experienced absolutely nothing even after being in a hyper viligant state caused by the media.  I've never caught COVID-19 either.

Edited November 8, 2024 by Golden Duck

[Slugnutty]

i think there is a parallel between vaccinations and abortion from the perspective of body autonomy. yet different attitudes to both. If you consider the two extremes, total autonomy or total no autonomy - assuming it would be impossible to apply an agreeable set of rules for the in between -  you would have to conclude that autonomy serves the interest of the individual, and the opposite favours society. If it was down to whether i live or die, I think I’d choose total autonomy and let society judge me, rather than stop me.