World leaders now have to deal with Trump as POTUS

[Golden Duck]

2 hours ago, Link of Hyrule said:

If Biden truly believed that Trump was a danger to democracy he'd do something about it. He took an oath to defend the united States from enemies both foreign and domestic. 

Don't get me wrong, he's doing the right thing, but by doing so he's proving he doesn't believe his lies about Trump. He knows this isn't the end of democracy, he knows life will go on, he knows he was trying to use fear to beat Trump and that the people saw straight through his lies. 

Edit: I could have combined this reply with my post above to Doc,  I just noticed I wrote a similar response in both. Apologies for the double post, so to speak. 

Biden didn't swear any such thing.

The text of the oath in Article 2, Section 1 of The Constitution reads:

Quote

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Biden, and every other POTUS, is duty bound to facilitate the peaceful transfer of office.

Revolution means the Constitution no longer exists.

[preacherman76]

8 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Well this is good.  I have probably been insufferable for the last couple of years, so now its your turn. Seems like justice.

You’re ok Tate. I don’t care what they say about you. 
 

jk 

[Doc Socks Junior]

4 hours ago, Link of Hyrule said:

Of course I agree that Biden should do what he's doing now.  But he never truly believed Trump was a danger to democracy, and that's my point in this.

So your point is that you've made up a scenario with what you think that Biden believes or doesn't? Given your proclivity for falsehoods, using chatbots as proof, and YouTube addiction, I have no reason to trust you on Slow Joe's "true" mentality.

Easy enough.

Probably important to note that this fantasy of yours is at least partly based on you, as usua,l being wrong. Someone else pointed out you don't have the correct oath in mind. Somewhat ironic.

4 hours ago, Link of Hyrule said:

  He was just talking. If he truly believed Trump was a danger to democracy  he would do anything he could to prevent it, including stopping him from taking office. 

As I pointed out in my first post, one can believe Trump is a threat to democracy without engaging in similar democracy-threatening actions to stop him. It's a consistent position.

[Doc Socks Junior]

10 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Well this is good.  I have probably been insufferable for the last couple of years, so now its your turn. Seems like justice.

Just as long as you don't spend the next 4 years and counting whining about a stolen election and voter fraud, I think you'll be okay.

[Gromdor]

At this point in time, I think that global leaders have had plenty of time and experience to understand what exactly they need to do to pull his strings.  He is probably the most predictable chaotic person I know.

[Tatetopa]

3 hours ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

Just as long as you don't spend the next 4 years and counting whining about a stolen election and voter fraud, I think you'll be okay.

Thanks.  Its been interesting.  I have spent the last several days listening to MAGA philosophy on immigrants, tariffs, Ukraine, Israel.  I compared it to what I believe and wondered if I was in the same type of propaganda silo as MAGA people. I listened to Kennedy  saying that the FDA is in the pocket of the drug cartels, I mean pharmaceutical companies, and US citizens pay more for drugs than any other country.  And I say, Amen brother.  He even said something about relying on science, and I thought, not too bad.  It makes me wonder if he will last among the oligarchs.  He is crazy too but seems the most human of the crew.   I listen to  Nick Fuentes taunting women with "Your body my choice,"  and I wonder how many Trump bros are chanting along with him.  I wonder if Trump family men realize he is disrespecting their wives and daughters too.

I hear Trump say he wants the killing to stop,. and I say good.  But instead of telling Putin to stop killing civilians and get out of Ukraine, I think he will tell Zelenskyy to give Russia what they want.

What I really believe is that this will be a great redistribution of wealth.  Elon and his peers will be set to advise and control the US the same way oligarchs under Putin  control Russia.  Elon has already told us there will be hard times, but promised prosperity down the road sometime in the future. Doesn't that sound like something Putin would say?

[acidhead]

48 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

 Elon has already told us there will be hard times, but promised prosperity down the road sometime in the future. Doesn't that sound like something Putin would say?

I've heard John Mearsheimer say the same thing. His reasoning is since 2017 the rise of China and to a lesser extent the reestablishment of Russia as competitors to the global hegemonic order will see the USA begin to behave in a more realist way as opposed to behaving in an idealist way when they were the world's sole super power. 

Edited November 9, 2024 by acidhead

[+Link of Hyrule]

5 hours ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

So your point is that you've made up a scenario with what you think that Biden believes or doesn't? Given your proclivity for falsehoods, using chatbots as proof, and YouTube addiction, I have no reason to trust you on Slow Joe's "true" mentality.

Easy enough.

Probably important to note that this fantasy of yours is at least partly based on you, as usua,l being wrong. Someone else pointed out you don't have the correct oath in mind. Somewhat ironic.

As I pointed out in my first post, one can believe Trump is a threat to democracy without engaging in similar democracy-threatening actions to stop him. It's a consistent position.

No, if you truly believe someone/something is a threat to democracy, you stop it. To not do so is to abandon your country.

I don't care what you believe, I'm just sharing how i see it. And from where I'm sitting, Biden is proving he was lying and doesn't truly believe Trump is a threat to democracy. 

If you're mileage on this is varies from mine, that's ok. You can believe what you like,  it's a free world, and Trump isn't a danger to that!

[+Link of Hyrule]

7 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

Biden didn't swear any such thing.

The text of the oath in Article 2, Section 1 of The Constitution reads:

Biden, and every other POTUS, is duty bound to facilitate the peaceful transfer of office.

Revolution means the Constitution no longer exists.

Defend the Constitution by handing government to someone who will destroy democracy... that doesn't make sense. As said he's proving he doesn't believe his rhetoric, and I think if you're honest with yourself you don't believe the rhetoric either!

Edited November 9, 2024 by Link of Hyrule

[Tatetopa]

1 hour ago, acidhead said:

I've heard John Mearsheimer say the same thing. His reasoning is since 2017 the rise of China and to a lesser extent the reestablishment of Russia as competitors to the global hegemonic order will see the USA begin to behave in a more realist way as opposed to behaving in an idealist way when they were the world's sole super power. 

What does that mean?

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

2 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

What does that mean?

It means stuff like “AUKUS” - the US actually trading with allies as a trading partner not just as the recipient of gifts who also ocassionally gifts boons. It means making alliances that benefit both sides immediately and not just the US “now” and them “eventually”. It means the US being aware nations do which to trade with China out of desire not just an attempt to slight America.

[+Razman]

49 minutes ago, Link of Hyrule said:

No, if you truly believe someone/something is a threat to democracy, you stop it. To not do so is to abandon your country.

I don't care what you believe, I'm just sharing how i see it. And from where I'm sitting, Biden is proving he was lying and doesn't truly believe Trump is a threat to democracy. 

If you're mileage on this is varies from mine, that's ok. You can believe what you like,  it's a free world, and Trump isn't a danger to that!

How was he supposed to stop it?

[Tatetopa]

37 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

It means stuff like “AUKUS” - the US actually trading with allies as a trading partner not just as the recipient of gifts who also ocassionally gifts boons. It means making alliances that benefit both sides immediately and not just the US “now” and them “eventually”. It means the US being aware nations do which to trade with China out of desire not just an attempt to slight America.

Well that seems rather just and desirable. I can get behind that. We might make it to a Star Trek future with that sort of policy. Even with its final disaster, I thought the withdrawal from Afghanistan might indicate a change in policy and less appetite for heavy handed intervention. Joe kinda let me down on that one. Everything I have heard from the incoming administration is the belief that the rest of the world is ripping us off and we will impose tariffs until they bend to our will.   Maybe I misunderstood.

 

 

[Tatetopa]

1 hour ago, Link of Hyrule said:

Defend the Constitution by handing government to someone who will destroy democracy... that doesn't make sense.

If your Constitution outlines the rule of law and you violate those laws to stop someone before they have committed a crime, even if they intend it,  then you have become what you feared.  How does that make sense?

[+Link of Hyrule]

1 hour ago, Razman said:

How was he supposed to stop it?

 

1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

If your Constitution outlines the rule of law and you violate those laws to stop someone before they have committed a crime, even if they intend it,  then you have become what you feared.  How does that make sense?

There's always a way. Biden never believed the things he said so he's got no problem handing power to Trump. 

[Doc Socks Junior]

2 hours ago, Link of Hyrule said:

No, if you truly believe someone/something is a threat to democracy, you stop it. To not do so is to abandon your country.

As I asked before, what action should Biden take to "stop it"?

Part of the threat to democracy Trump poses is based on trying to overturn the results of an election. Biden trying to do the same would not save democracy, it would further erode it.

2 hours ago, Link of Hyrule said:

I don't care what you believe, I'm just sharing how i see it. And from where I'm sitting, Biden is proving he was lying and doesn't truly believe Trump is a threat to democracy. 

I would be more likely to engage with this further if this was actually a reflection of what you believed, rather than the pass through of YouTube/chatbots/etc.

What you can be convinced to believe is certainly interesting in an sociological sense.

What actions Biden should take in order to "prove" his bonafides? Not engaging in the same democracy-eroding behavior of Don the Sexually Abusive Felon illustrates that Biden believes such actions are wrong.

2 hours ago, Link of Hyrule said:

If you're mileage on this is varies from mine, that's ok. You can believe what you like,  it's a free world, and Trump isn't a danger to that!

Eh.

As your beliefs in this, as in other cases, tend to disagree with objective reality, I feel no strong need to agree to disagree. In this, as in the realm of basic math in other threads, the main point is not to convince a stone, but rather to illustrate the incoherence of the opinion to an objective observer.

[psyche101]

2 hours ago, Razman said:

How was he supposed to stop it?

Storm the capitol no doubt. 

[Arbenol]

2 hours ago, Razman said:

How was he supposed to stop it?

He, and Nancy, could storm the Capitol.

[Arbenol]

Just now, psyche101 said:

Storm the capitol no doubt. 

Great minds 

[psyche101]

2 hours ago, Link of Hyrule said:

Defend the Constitution by handing government to someone who will destroy democracy... that doesn't make sense. As said he's proving he doesn't believe his rhetoric, and I think if you're honest with yourself you don't believe the rhetoric either!

That's how democracy works. Not a Maga concept I know. 

@DieChecker and I had a very interesting discussion about this. He's a great poster, you should take some tips there. 

Democracy can be used to destroy democracy. People can vote a dictator in who can remove the right to vote. 

Respecting democracy is democratic. Quite the conundrum but that's how it works. 

It seems more like you're trying to start your own conspiracy theory again. 

[+Link of Hyrule]

11 minutes ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

As I asked before, what action should Biden take to "stop it"?

Part of the threat to democracy Trump poses is based on trying to overturn the results of an election. Biden trying to do the same would not save democracy, it would further erode it....

....What actions Biden should take in order to "prove" his bonafides? Not engaging in the same democracy-eroding behavior of Don the Sexually Abusive Felon illustrates that Biden believes such actions are wrong.

I have never had to live in a country where the incoming president has been a threat to democracy. As Joe Biden has never lived in such a country either I think the question is meaningless. There are dozens of things he COULD do IF he truly believed Trump was a threat. But he knows Trump isn't a threat. 

If we disagree, fine, I'm sharing what I believe to be true - if Biden believed Trump was a threat to democracy he'd be doing something about it right now! 

 

11 minutes ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

I would be more likely to engage with this further if this was actually a reflection of what you believed, rather than the pass through of YouTube/chatbots/etc.

What you can be convinced to believe is certainly interesting in an sociological sense.

 Cheap attack, I award you zero points and may God have mercy on your soul. 

 

11 minutes ago, Doc Socks Junior said:

Eh.

As your beliefs in this, as in other cases, tend to disagree with objective reality, I feel no strong need to agree to disagree. In this, as in the realm of basic math in other threads, the main point is not to convince a stone, but rather to illustrate the incoherence of the opinion to an objective observer.

Just to be clear about which belief you are alleging "disagree(s) with objective reality", we are discussing the belief that Trump is not a threat to democracy. As you believe this is going against "objective reality", the only way we can truly gauge this is to revisit this discussion in 4 years. If Trump hasn't taken steps to destroy democracy then the evidence will show that my beliefs are based in objective reality and it is in fact you who has strayed into the realm of fantasy. If Trump does try to be a dictator or any other thing that destroys democracy then the evidence will be there. 

Arguing about it now is pointless, we'll chat again in 4 years  

[psyche101]

6 minutes ago, Arbenol said:

Great minds 

Mate, the finest 😁

[+Link of Hyrule]

Just now, psyche101 said:

That's how democracy works. Not a Maga concept I know. 

@DieChecker and I had a very interesting discussion about this. He's a great poster, you should take some tips there. 

Democracy can be used to destroy democracy. People can vote a dictator in who can remove the right to vote. 

Respecting democracy is democratic. Quite the conundrum but that's how it works. 

It seems more like you're trying to start your own conspiracy theory again. 

The only "conspiracy" I'm starting is the claim that Biden doesn't truly believe Trump is a threat to democracy. If he did he would objectively be acting differently to how he is. And quite frankly, this "conspiracy" isn't exactly controversial. 

[Unusual Tournament]

1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

Well that seems rather just and desirable. I can get behind that. We might make it to a Star Trek future with that sort of policy. Even with its final disaster, I thought the withdrawal from Afghanistan might indicate a change in policy and less appetite for heavy handed intervention. Joe kinda let me down on that one. Everything I have heard from the incoming administration is the belief that the rest of the world is ripping us off and we will impose tariffs until they bend to our will.   Maybe I misunderstood.

 

 

I don’t think Trump has any policies other than wanting to make woke people cry 😢 he has populist ideas bordering on paranoia 

[psyche101]

Just now, Link of Hyrule said:

The only "conspiracy" I'm starting is the claim that Biden doesn't truly believe Trump is a threat to democracy. If he did he would objectively be acting differently to how he is. And quite frankly, this "conspiracy" isn't exactly controversial. 

Yes that's the conspiracy theory that you are attempting to start.

It's incredibly silly because Biden has acted democratically. It's a statement to respect of democracy. 

No. He would not act differently. Seventy five million say otherwise. He must respect the people. That's what he has done despite his beliefs. That's his job. What someone who doesn't respect democracy does is call a stolen election, rile stupid people up and riot on the Capitol. That's not democracy. See the difference?

That's what a good loser looks like. Again, not common amongst the conservatives and unheard of in Maga. It's a good example for you to learn from. Democracy in action. Weird to see a politician act with grace but here we are.