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So, what’s going on in England 2400BC…?


The Puzzler

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What a strange time, there is all sorts going on…

Pre-Celtic apparently, all these wonderful Neolithic monuments being built…

I just find it extremely fascinating that Great Britain was inhabited as it was, from earliest time, down to connections to Doggerland and all Northern Europe, in the Scottish isles, to Bronze Age trade towns in Wessex, the Cornwall tin, the whole Stonehenge enigma..

But the real question is…what was going on in England around the time the pyramids were built…2600-2200BC and how much impact did it have as a centre of culture or even trade in its time,…?

IMG_9024.jpeg

 

Edited by The Puzzler
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Scrolling down a bit…

The Middle Neolithic (c. 3300 BC – c. 2900 BC) saw the development of cursus monuments close to earlier barrows and the growth and abandonment of causewayed enclosures, as well as the building of impressive chamber tombs such as the Maeshowe types. The earliest stone circles and individual burials also appear.

Or is the question answered already? Maybe on the surface it is…

 

Different pottery types, such as grooved ware, appear during the later Neolithic (c. 2900 BC – c. 2200 BC). In addition, new enclosures called henges were built, along with stone rows and the famous sites of Stonehenge, Avebury and Silbury Hill, which building reached its peak at this time. Industrial flint mining begins, such as that at Cissbury and Grimes Graves, along with evidence of long-distance trade. Wooden tools and bowls were common, and bows were also constructed.

Changes in Neolithic culture could have been due to the mass migrations that occurred in that time. A 2017 study showed that British Neolithic farmers had formerly been genetically similar to contemporary populations in the Iberian peninsula, but from the Beaker culture period onwards, all British individuals had high proportions of Steppe ancestry and were genetically more similar to Beaker-associated people from the Lower Rhine area. The study argues that more than 90% of Britain's Neolithic gene pool was replaced with the coming of the Beaker people.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Britain

Edited by The Puzzler
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A 2017 study showed that British Neolithic farmers had formerly been genetically similar to contemporary populations in the Iberian peninsula, but from the Beaker culture period onwards, all British individuals had high proportions of Steppe ancestry and were genetically more similar to Beaker-associated people from the Lower Rhine area.
 

Oh right. 

Interesting.

Edited by The Puzzler
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This period can be sub-divided into an earlier phase (2300 to 1200 BC) and a later one (1200 – 700 BC). Beaker pottery appears in England around 2475–2315 cal. BC[44] along with flat axes and burial practices of inhumation. With the revised Stonehenge chronology, this is after the Sarsen Circle and trilithons were erected at Stonehenge. Several regions of origin have been postulated for the Beaker culture, notably the Iberian peninsula, the Netherlands and Central Europe.

Where indeed did the Beaker Culture come from, that took over England at this time?

The famous circle of large sarsen stones were placed between 2600 BC and 2400 BC. 

Edited by The Puzzler
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Iberia, the Netherlands or Central Europe, they are very different = nobody knows wtf is going on….

Which one is it?….

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3 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

Iberia, the Netherlands or Central Europe, they are very different = nobody knows wtf is going on….

Which one is it?….

This is what was going on in the Netherlands around that time:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlaardingen_culture

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3 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

Several regions of origin have been postulated for the Beaker culture, notably the Iberian peninsula, the Netherlands and Central Europe.

I think I know what you're up to...

😎

The Order of the Lost Boys?

Edited by Abramelin
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5 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

I just find it extremely fascinating that Great Britain was inhabited as it was, from earliest time, down to connections to Doggerland and all Northern Europe, in the Scottish isles, to Bronze Age trade towns in Wessex, the Cornwall tin, the whole Stonehenge enigma..

But the real question is…what was going on in England around the time the pyramids were built…2600-2200BC and how much impact did it have as a centre of culture or even trade in its time,…?

 

The earliest evidence of metal mining in Ireland [and northwest Europe] is provided by Bronze Age copper workings at Ross Island, Co. Kerry in southwest Ireland. These workings, dated at between 2,400 and 2,000 BC (OBrien, 1996) constitute the oldest recognised in northwest Europe. http://www.mineralsireland.ie/MiningInIreland/HistoricMining.htm

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2 hours ago, Abramelin said:

I think I know what you're up to...

😎

The Order of the Lost Boys?

According to an Early European Farmers article in Wikipedia, the Lost Boys (plus other neolithic groups) originated ca 9600 BCE in the Middle East.  Poseidon (or some eqivalent nauthical concept) led the Lost Boys westward, eventually reaching southern Portugal, southern Spain and northwest Africa by 5400 BCE.  

But these particular Lost Boys did not expand agriculture into Britain and Ireland.  Instead, a farming group went northward (roughly following France's Rhone river) ca 5000 BCE. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_European_Farmers#/media/File%3AExpansion_of_farming_in_western_Eurasia%2C_9600–4000_BCE.png

 

Edited by atalante
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29 minutes ago, atalante said:

According to an Early European Farmers article in Wikipedia, the Lost Boys (plus other neolithic groups) originated ca 9600 BCE in the Middle east.  Poseidon (or some eqivalent nauthical concept) led the Lost Boys westward, eventually reaching southern Portugal, southern Spain and northwest Africa by 5400 BCE.  

But these particular Lost Boys did not expand agriculture into Britain and Ireland.  Instead, a farming group went northward (roughly following France's Rhone river) ca 5000 BCE. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_European_Farmers#/media/File%3AExpansion_of_farming_in_western_Eurasia%2C_9600–4000_BCE.png

 

I only hope Puzzler understands my mentioning of this Order of the Lost Boys... Think acronym.

Edited by Abramelin
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6 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

But the real question is…what was going on in England around the time the pyramids were built…2600-2200BC and how much impact did it have as a centre of culture or even trade in its time,…?

 

You can read here about the religious contribution of the Druids and the enrichment of Europe with spirituality:

https://rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA093/English/RSP1985/19040930p01.html

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These stone megaliths are an open temple because they believed that it was necessary to communicate with the gods in the open air and not hide in a closed temple room. There is another reason: closed temples were associated with the black magic of the Atlanteans  where bad things happened, so a closed temple was hateful to them, so they preferred open spaces.

In those days, many people had keen eyesight, so communication with the gods could take place in the open air among nature. And the Mayans had open temples-pyramids with steep steps.

When subtle vision closed in humanity, it needed faith in the one and invisible God, so Christianity came to replace the ancient faiths when it was possible to communicate with gods and nature spirits.

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7 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

Scrolling down a bit…

The Middle Neolithic (c. 3300 BC – c. 2900 BC) saw the development of cursus monuments close to earlier barrows and the growth and abandonment of causewayed enclosures, as well as the building of impressive chamber tombs such as the Maeshowe types. The earliest stone circles and individual burials also appear.

Or is the question answered already? Maybe on the surface it is…

 

Different pottery types, such as grooved ware, appear during the later Neolithic (c. 2900 BC – c. 2200 BC). In addition, new enclosures called henges were built, along with stone rows and the famous sites of Stonehenge, Avebury and Silbury Hill, which building reached its peak at this time. Industrial flint mining begins, such as that at Cissbury and Grimes Graves, along with evidence of long-distance trade. Wooden tools and bowls were common, and bows were also constructed.

Changes in Neolithic culture could have been due to the mass migrations that occurred in that time. A 2017 study showed that British Neolithic farmers had formerly been genetically similar to contemporary populations in the Iberian peninsula, but from the Beaker culture period onwards, all British individuals had high proportions of Steppe ancestry and were genetically more similar to Beaker-associated people from the Lower Rhine area. The study argues that more than 90% of Britain's Neolithic gene pool was replaced with the coming of the Beaker people.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Britain

What caused the Steppe Diaspora? What was going on that made people flee so wildly they crossed seas? The Little Ice Age?

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9 hours ago, Abramelin said:

I only hope Puzzler understands my mentioning of this Order of the Lost Boys... Think acronym.

I was lost, like The Lost Boys movie with Keifer Sutherland is good but then I’m like what r they on about…

 

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9 hours ago, Coil said:

You can read here about the religious contribution of the Druids and the enrichment of Europe with spirituality:

https://rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA093/English/RSP1985/19040930p01.html

Interesting, thanks, I will.

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8 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

What caused the Steppe Diaspora? What was going on that made people flee so wildly they crossed seas? The Little Ice Age?

Good questions. Yes, even the Roman army had trouble at first crossing over, was like an otherworldly place where Gods controlled your fate, leaving the continent. 
Maybe the earlier people had more faith in the crossings, had better boats, discarding the fearfulness of later Gods….

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9 hours ago, Abramelin said:

I only hope Puzzler understands my mentioning of this Order of the Lost Boys... Think acronym.

And you scold me for bringing it up…..

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9 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

What caused the Steppe Diaspora? What was going on that made people flee so wildly they crossed seas? The Little Ice Age?

What need caused people to leave the steppes at this time?

Whether they were Beakers or not, there does seem to be a diaspora from the steppes.

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A review of radiocarbon dates for Bell Beaker across Europe found that some of the earliest were found in Portugal, where the range from Zambujal and Cerro de la Virgen (Spain) ran c. 2900–2500 BC, in contrast to the rather later range for Andalusia ( c. 2500–2200 BC).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Beaker_culture#:~:text=Iberian Peninsula,-Further information%3A Chalcolithic&text=A review of radiocarbon dates,. 2500–2200 BC).

 

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Is it the Iberian aspect that shows in Great Britain…?  Bryan Sykes among other calling them proto- elts that built the Neolithic megastructures? 
Seems more like than the steppes, or Netherlands…

Spain has the history to match the story….the castles, castilles, stone masonry, of this type that seems to match the British ones..

Are the Bell Beaker group from Iberia.l.seems to match the logistics…

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BARCELONA, SPAIN—A new study of populations in southeastern Spain some 4,200 years ago suggests that groups with ancestry from the Eastern European Steppe mixed with dwindling groups of locals, according to a o released by the Autonomous University of Barcelona (UAB

BARCELONA, SPAIN—A new study of populations in southeastern Spain some 4,200 years ago suggests that groups with ancestry from the Eastern European Steppe mixed with dwindling groups of locals, according to a statement released by the Autonomous University of Barcelona (UAB). Pr


so the inhabitants of England, which I prob should have titled Great Britain have…a lot of Iberian heritage,

The place the “cave men” of Europe lived, is it any different then, than the practices of pre Neolithic society and does it encompass pre ice age ritual?

IMG_9029.jpeg

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This is when the pyramids were being built….

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The people of Spain weren’t conquered, they were originals..

https://www.ancient-origins.net/weird-facts

Modern scholars have generally accepted the theory that violent invaders from the steppes (dry, grassy plains) of Eastern Europe used murderous means to displace many populations in Western Europe in the distant past. One such displacement was said to have occurred on the southeastern Iberian Peninsula in approximately 2,200 BC, marking the transition from the Copper (Chalcolithic) Age to the Bronze Age in that part of the world.

It is known that the lands of modern-day southern Spain experienced a sudden population crash at this time, which could have been caused by warfare. This coincided with a shift in the genetic makeup of the descendants of the survivors of that crash, as past analyses of DNA taken from skeletal samples dating to this era showed an influx of genetic material from the Pontic-Caspian steppe region. Putting two and two together, archaeologists and historians concluded that invading armies from the steppes of Eastern Europe were responsible for both the population decline and the subsequent introduction of fresh DNA into the local gene pool.

But this idea has now been firmly rejected by a team of archaeologists from the Autonomous University of Barcelona (UAB) and the University of Murcia, who recently completed a study that looked more deeply into this tumultuous period in Iberian Peninsula history. These researchers uncovered evidence to show that population losses preceded the arrival of the Pontic-Caspian DNA in the region, which is not at all consistent with the invasion theory.

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7 hours ago, The Puzzler said:

And you scold me for bringing it up…..

You are almost constantly trying to bring it up, even if you don't literally write it out.

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13 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

You are almost constantly trying to bring it up, even if you don't literally write it out.

Because I’m not lol it’s just there…..unmeaning to be, like an old library book you forgot to take back…obviously you also forgot to take it back to the library.

Antique Library, my latest jigsaw puzzle…(it was actually a really hard puzzle)

IMG_9034.jpeg

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