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Marcus Aurelius - The Power of INDIFFERENCE


OverSword

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I decided to buy the audiobook.  He was a Stoic, was he not?  It's a very interesting life choice.  

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Most people are unaware that Stoic philosophy is a literal lineal descendant of Buddhism gone to the West, and with all the Indian religiosity removed.

Edited by Alchopwn
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13 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Stoicism is better than Buddhism.

Not if it is YouTube Stoicism.  The fact is, really there is no difference between Stoicsim and Buddhism.  The religiosity was only introduced into Buddhism, because the Bactrian Kingdom Greeks insisted that all religions had to depict their sacred godhead.  Prior to that there was officially no depiction of the Buddha (he didn't want one) save for the shadow cast by Stupas, which looks like a person sitting cross legged and meditating, after the fashion of the Buddha, back in the day.

Edited by Alchopwn
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On 12/16/2024 at 4:31 AM, and-then said:

I decided to buy the audiobook.  He was a Stoic, was he not?  It's a very interesting life choice.  

Aurelius book, "Meditations", is free online.

See former post.

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On 12/15/2024 at 10:31 PM, and-then said:

I decided to buy the audiobook.  He was a Stoic, was he not?  It's a very interesting life choice.  

'Meditations' is awesome. But you might not like some of his religious opinions. 

On 12/20/2024 at 12:16 PM, Abramelin said:

Aurelius book, "Meditations", is free online.

See former post.

I have like 3 copies of that. 

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1 hour ago, Piney said:

'Meditations' is awesome. But you might not like some of his religious opinions. 

I have like 3 copies of that. 

I once had a Dutch translation. I lend it to a collegue of mine. I was amazed people working for the company I worked for could be interested in that stuff. Most were a bit short of being neanderthals, but this guy wrote poetry...

We talked about Aurelius, and I said I had his book. He borrowed it from me.... and I said, "Keep it, I have a link to an online version".

And the link I posted is not the one I meant.

===

"The best revenge is not to be like your enemy."

~ Marcus Aurelius.

 

===

Did anyone watch "Gladiator"?

That's where Richard Harris shows up as Marcus Aurelius.

 

Edited by Abramelin
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On 12/16/2024 at 4:31 AM, and-then said:

I decided to buy the audiobook.  He was a Stoic, was he not?  It's a very interesting life choice.  

Like Piney said, he wasn't best friends with Christians:

https://www.libertymagazine.org/article/marcus-aurelius-enlightened-persecutor

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On 12/22/2024 at 8:03 AM, Abramelin said:

Like Piney said, he wasn't best friends with Christians:

https://www.libertymagazine.org/article/marcus-aurelius-enlightened-persecutor

And rightly so.  Think about the low regard we hold for cults that engage in suicidal practices and call themselves martyrs.  This is how the Roman state viewed the Christians; as inherently favoring the weak and unmanly, a cult of slaves raised in rebellious Judea, that eschews all that is good in life, and seem to favor death over life.  Sadly, the Romans simply didn't persecute the Christians enough to wipe them out, so we faced over a thousand years of people believing that personal hygiene was a sign of unholy vanity, that frugality was a vice, and banking a sin.  Most hypocritical of all, the Christians never turned the other cheek, but turned their Church into an apparatus of persecution that has become a worldwide byword for evil.

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On 12/21/2024 at 12:23 PM, Abramelin said:

Did anyone watch "Gladiator"?

That's where Richard Harris shows up as Marcus Aurelius.

Loved it. If you know anything about Rome don’t see Gladiator II or you will be sorry to spend money on a ticket.

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On 12/24/2024 at 10:59 AM, Alchopwn said:

And rightly so.  Think about the low regard we hold for cults that engage in suicidal practices and call themselves martyrs.  This is how the Roman state viewed the Christians; as inherently favoring the weak and unmanly, a cult of slaves raised in rebellious Judea, that eschews all that is good in life, and seem to favor death over life.  Sadly, the Romans simply didn't persecute the Christians enough to wipe them out, so we faced over a thousand years of people believing that personal hygiene was a sign of unholy vanity, that frugality was a vice, and banking a sin.  Most hypocritical of all, the Christians never turned the other cheek, but turned their Church into an apparatus of persecution that has become a worldwide byword for evil.

Didn't the Christians eventually declare that martyrs go straight to hell, ending that criminal idiocy?

Personal hygiene appears to be correlated with the religious crazy and suicide bombings.

Do not economists recommend "spend, spend, spend!"?

Do not banks finance all kinds of evil?

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8 minutes ago, Ell said:

Didn't the Christians eventually declare that martyrs go straight to hell, ending that criminal idiocy?

Actually no, they didn't.  You still find martyred missionaries being canonized well into the 19th Century.

9 minutes ago, Ell said:

Personal hygiene appears to be correlated with the religious crazy and suicide bombings.

What about lack of personal hygiene?  Christians were taught to never wash.

10 minutes ago, Ell said:

Do not economists recommend "spend, spend, spend!"?

Actually no, the economists will tell you to spend in some contexts and to save in others.

11 minutes ago, Ell said:

Do not banks finance all kinds of evil?

And does the Church not also finance all sorts of evil with its own completely notoriously Mafia infiltrated Banco Ambrosio? Gross hypocrisy, wouldn't you agree?

Remember that Banks also finance a great many good things.  Consider that because banking was made illegal, people didn't stop taking loans, but they were driven into the hands of violent loan sharks in the medieval world, quite apart from the Jews, who were the only people who were allowed to loan money legally in Medieval Europe.  Talk about putting your head in a noose for Christianity.

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22 hours ago, OverSword said:

Loved it. If you know anything about Rome don’t see Gladiator II or you will be sorry to spend money on a ticket.

I don't even see any point there even being a Gladiator II. 

It's kind of like a Gone With the Wind II.  Why bother?  Except that some algorithm said...oh yeah...there are more than enough stupid people to make some money here 

 

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33 minutes ago, joc said:

Except that some algorithm said...oh yeah...there are more than enough stupid people to make some money here 

yep-- like the ufo enigma 😉

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Ell said:

Nevertheless: Christian countries appear to be the most advanced and civilized on Earth.

Not at that time.  China and the Moslem countries were well ahead during the Medieval Period.  Of course those cultures didn't have a Renaissance, and wars of religion that shut down the monopoly of conscience of their religious institutions, or the enlightenment.  Christian countries took a long time to pull ahead, and it wasn't due to Christianity, it was due to the Prophet of Science , Isaac Newton.  I mean, allegedly the Muslims had the scientific method first, but what did they do with it?  Not much.  And what did Newton do with it?  Remade society.

Edited by Alchopwn
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Muslims progressed only by stealing the ideas and technology and genes from the people they conquered and subverted.

Christian countries pull ahead because they evolve(d) their gene pools. They have a positive evolution algorithm.

Isaac Newton was created by Divine intervention; like me, like Paul, like Archimedes, like Leonardo da Vinci.

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On 1/1/2025 at 8:42 AM, Alchopwn said:

I mean, allegedly the Muslims had the scientific method first, but what did they do with it?  Not much. 

Without them no one nowadays would have known about ancient Greece or the Roman Empire. They translated ancient texts like crazy, which were subsequently translated into Latin.

Much of that took place in the 13th Califate, Iberia. I always say that if the Reconquista had not taken place, we would have landed on the moon centuries earlier.

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19 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Without them no one nowadays would have known about ancient Greece or the Roman Empire. They translated ancient texts like crazy, which were subsequently translated into Latin.

That is highly debatable, given that the Muslims burned the Library of Alexandria in 642 AD, on the basis that they only needed one book.  They inherited a cultural legacy they didn't respect, and were lousy custodians.  It was actually the Italians of Florence who performed the bulk of the surviving translations.

19 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Much of that took place in the 13th Califate, Iberia. I always say that if the Reconquista had not taken place, we would have landed on the moon centuries earlier.

There was a 150 year period of comparative tolerance in Grenada alone, but that still meant that non-Muslims were second class citizens, having inferior legal rights, and having to pay the Jizya, or second class citizen tax.  This age of tolerance was ended when Muslim fanatics conducted a citywide pogrom against non-Muslims.  

Now let's look at the Reconquista.  Soon after its completion, we see Spain and Portugal beginning the Age of Exploration as they seek to bypass the Middle East to access Eastern Spices.  This triggers the discovery of the New World, and the money from the New World jump-starts the Renaissance.  Frankly, without the Reconquista, there would be no USA, and therefore no successful Moon Landing.  

In short, you are a victim of pro-Muslim propaganda.

Edited by Alchopwn
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2 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

In short, you are a victim of pro-Muslim propaganda.

I have the impression you're the victim of the opposite, based on (your experience with) modern day Muslims.

+++++

 

Al Andalus

Under the Caliphate of Córdoba, the city of Córdoba became one of the leading cultural and economic centres throughout the Mediterranean Basin, Europe, and the Islamic world. Achievements that advanced Islamic and Western science came from al-Andalus, including major advances in trigonometry (Jabir ibn Aflah), astronomy (al-Zarqali), surgery (al-Zahrawi), pharmacology (Ibn Zuhr),[9] and agronomy (Ibn Bassal and Abu'l-Khayr al-Ishbili). Al-Andalus became a conduit for cultural and scientific exchange between the Islamic and Christian worlds.[9]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Andalus

===

Despite the mounting attacks, Sephardic Jews continued to serve as cultural intermediaries, economic pioneers, and skilled artisans. They figured prominently in the famed translation circles at the court of King Alfonso X, known as Alphonso the Wise, where they formed an integral part of the interfaith teams that translated the classics of antiquity and the Muslim world into Latin and the vernacular and thereby transmitted their wisdom to the West. Jews also participated in Alphonso’s crafting of the Castilian language.

https://www.neh.gov/article/ornament-world-and-jews-spain

===

Medicine was a central part of medieval Islamic culture. Islamic medicine was built on the legacies left behind by Greek and Roman physicians and scholars.[7] Islamic physicians and scholars were strongly influenced by Galen and Hippocrates, as well as by the Greek scholars of Alexandria, Egypt. Islamic scholars translated their voluminous writings from Greek into Arabic and then produced new medical knowledge based on those texts. In order to make the Greek tradition more accessible, understandable, and teachable, Islamic scholars ordered and made more systematic the vast and sometimes inconsistent Greco-Roman medical knowledge by writing encyclopedias and summaries.[7] It was through reading Arabic versions that Western doctors learned of Greek medicine, including the works of Hippocrates and Galen. Medieval and early modern scholars in Europe drew upon Islamic traditions and translations as the foundation for their medical enterprise. For example, Canon of Medicine (an encyclopedia of medicine in five books, which presented a clear and organized summary of all medical knowledge of the time) by Ibn Sina (Avicenna in the West) was translated into Latin and then disseminated in manuscript and printed form throughout Europe. During the 15th and 16th centuries alone, the Canon of Medicine was published more than 35 times. It is the most influential medical book of the Middle Ages. Besides Ibn Sina, the other Arab Islamic physicians who contributed to medical knowledge and influenced medical thinking in the West were Al Razi (Rhazes), Ibn Nafis, and Al-Zarawi. Their contributions and important discoveries will be discussed separately in subsequent issues of the journal.

[ Copy of Avicenna's “Canon of Medicine”, written in Arabic and completed in 1025 A.D. It was translated into several languages and became the standard textbook in medicine in Europe until the 18th century ]

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3621228/

 

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19 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Al Andalus

Under the Caliphate of Córdoba, the city of Córdoba became one of the leading cultural and economic centres throughout the Mediterranean Basin, Europe, and the Islamic world. Achievements that advanced Islamic and Western science came from al-Andalus, including major advances in trigonometry (Jabir ibn Aflah), astronomy (al-Zarqali), surgery (al-Zahrawi), pharmacology (Ibn Zuhr),[9] and agronomy (Ibn Bassal and Abu'l-Khayr al-Ishbili). Al-Andalus became a conduit for cultural and scientific exchange between the Islamic and Christian worlds.[9]

BUMP, you haven't addressed any of the criticisms that I have put forwards to do with this alleged "Golden Age".  The fact that Muslims stopped slaughtering non-Muslims for a few decades in Spain isn't grounds for great celebration.  Instead we should highlight the Jizya, and the fact that this was Islam superimposing itself upon a region that didn't ask to be conquered by them, let alone genocided the way they were.  Everywhere Islam goes, it leaves a sea of blood.

In Europe in greeting we ask "How are you?" for it is a land of many sicknesses.  In China they ask "Have you eaten" for it is a land that has known many famines.  In the Middle East they greet you saying "Peace".

Edited by Alchopwn
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5 hours ago, Alchopwn said:

BUMP, you haven't addressed any of the criticisms that I have put forwards to do with this alleged "Golden Age".  The fact that Muslims stopped slaughtering non-Muslims for a few decades in Spain isn't grounds for great celebration.  Instead we should highlight the Jizya, and the fact that this was Islam superimposing itself upon a region that didn't ask to be conquered by them, let alone genocided the way they were.  Everywhere Islam goes, it leaves a sea of blood.

In Europe in greeting we ask "How are you?" for it is a land of many sicknesses.  In China they ask "Have you eaten" for it is a land that has known many famines.  In the Middle East they greet you saying "Peace".

I never suggested as far as I remember, that the caliphate was all happy happy, joy joy.

And what you call 'a few decades' was more like 100 to 150 years.

Btw., because of Columbus we now have the US of A. But he set out on his first voyage across the Atlantic because, as the Sephardic Jew he was ( as has now been proven), he wanted to escape a day before the Jews would be kicked out of Spain (August 1, 1492, if I remember well). He sought a refuge for the Jews, but under the guise of exploring/crossing the Atlantic. And his trip was paid by rich Jews, not the king and queen. He sure was able to hide his 'jewishness', btw..

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19 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Btw., because of Columbus we now have the US of A. But he set out on his first voyage across the Atlantic because, as the Sephardic Jew he was ( as has now been proven), he wanted to escape a day before the Jews would be kicked out of Spain (August 1, 1492, if I remember well). He sought a refuge for the Jews, but under the guise of exploring/crossing the Atlantic. And his trip was paid by rich Jews, not the king and queen. He sure was able to hide his 'jewishness', btw..

I've heard that Columbus was Jewish, but I doubt it.  He was Genoese, and his father was a wool weaver, and while that profession was not forbidden to Jews, he could hardly have been expected to marry a wealthy Catholic girl like Susanna Fontanarossa if he was Jewish.  It just wasn't done.

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