Still Waters Posted January 24 #1 Share Posted January 24 US President Donald Trump has pardoned 23 anti-abortion activists, including some convicted of blockading a reproductive health clinic and intimidating staff and patients. The pardons were part of a round of executive orders signed by Trump on Thursday, one of several in the first week of his presidency. Trump described the convictions as "ridiculous", but abortion rights campaigners said the move was evidence of his opposition to abortion access. The orders came a day before anti-abortion protesters were due to come to Washington DC for the annual March for Life, which the president is due to address by videolink. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn0yzg9pj97o 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted January 25 #2 Share Posted January 25 Picking up speed as America goes downhill! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cho Jinn Posted January 25 #3 Share Posted January 25 It's good to see Republicans, or at least the de facto head of the party, exercise the "Because fck you, that's why" muscle. They are usually on the receiving end! 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted January 26 #4 Share Posted January 26 (edited) Some of these people were charged and convicted for doing nothing more than standing across the street, and praying wordlessly. Somehow being silent, across the street, on public property, was an offense worth years in prison. "What you in for?" "Praying silently." If anyone considers what they're doing only just "intimidation", they can get up to ten years in prison. Reading up on these people, all were non-violent. Some tried to block access, which is a crime, if not worth ten years in prison Edited January 26 by DieChecker 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Socks Junior Posted January 26 #5 Share Posted January 26 11 hours ago, DieChecker said: Reading up on these people, all were non-violent. Some tried to block access, which is a crime, if not worth ten years in prison Given that none of these people received even half of ten years in prison, I assume the justice system agrees with you. Why exaggerate? https://apnews.com/article/lauren-handy-abortion-clinic-blockade-ab461332b6c83d1c4d7f4d6175d04fbc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cho Jinn Posted January 26 #6 Share Posted January 26 1 hour ago, Doc Socks Junior said: Given that none of these people received even half of ten years in prison, I assume the justice system agrees with you. Why exaggerate? https://apnews.com/article/lauren-handy-abortion-clinic-blockade-ab461332b6c83d1c4d7f4d6175d04fbc DocSocks, finally, in 2025, admits it might possibly be a total canard. Baby steps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Socks Junior Posted January 26 #7 Share Posted January 26 5 minutes ago, Cho Jinn said: DocSocks, finally, in 2025, admits it might possibly be a total canard. Baby steps! Let's not involve me in your fictions and lies, please. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted January 26 #8 Share Posted January 26 2 hours ago, Doc Socks Junior said: Given that none of these people received even half of ten years in prison, I assume the justice system agrees with you. Why exaggerate? https://apnews.com/article/lauren-handy-abortion-clinic-blockade-ab461332b6c83d1c4d7f4d6175d04fbc Do the dip****s who block traffic get five years? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Socks Junior Posted January 26 #9 Share Posted January 26 9 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said: Do the dip****s who block traffic get five years? I assume you're capable of finding this information as readily as I. If you wish to say that those who unlawfully block traffic should be charged more severely, then you won't find me disagreeing. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted January 28 #10 Share Posted January 28 (edited) On 1/26/2025 at 1:27 PM, Doc Socks Junior said: Given that none of these people received even half of ten years in prison, I assume the justice system agrees with you. Why exaggerate? https://apnews.com/article/lauren-handy-abortion-clinic-blockade-ab461332b6c83d1c4d7f4d6175d04fbc https://msmagazine.com/2025/01/23/trump-pardons-abortion-clinic-violence-pro-life-face-act/ Quote Twenty-three antiabortion extremists convicted of violating the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act (FACE Act) were pardoned by President Donald Trump on Thursday. https://www.justice.gov/crt/protecting-patients-and-health-care-providers Quote for a subsequent offense; and except that if bodily injury results, the length of imprisonment shall be not more than 10 years, and if death results, it shall be for any term of years or for life. So any excuse of "bodily injury", such as the lady convicted of bruising another woman's ankle, could get more than 10 years imprisonment. So if the said example woman in previous post, "prayed silently" and got arrested three times, she'd be eligible for 10 years as a repeat offender. Edited January 28 by DieChecker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Socks Junior Posted January 28 #11 Share Posted January 28 12 hours ago, DieChecker said: https://msmagazine.com/2025/01/23/trump-pardons-abortion-clinic-violence-pro-life-face-act/ https://www.justice.gov/crt/protecting-patients-and-health-care-providers So any excuse of "bodily injury", such as the lady convicted of bruising another woman's ankle, could get more than 10 years imprisonment. So a certain amount of violence is fine? The guy shoving nurses and spraining their ankles is just "any excuse"? If someone was accosting my wife while she was in labor, like these brave "heroes" were doing. Eh. They could reap what they sow. 12 hours ago, DieChecker said: So if the said example woman in previous post, "prayed silently" and got arrested three times, she'd be eligible for 10 years as a repeat offender. Not really. For the repeat offender who is engaging in purely "nonviolent physical obstruction", the law states that: Quote fine shall...be not more than $25,000 and the length of imprisonment shall be not more than 18 months, or both The said example woman would have to be engaging in violence to get imprisonment up to 10 years. Not just "praying silently". 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted January 28 #12 Share Posted January 28 On 1/27/2025 at 7:03 AM, Doc Socks Junior said: I assume you're capable of finding this information as readily as I. If you wish to say that those who unlawfully block traffic should be charged more severely, then you won't find me disagreeing. Obstructing traffic is a 1 year term, $2000 fine or both. LARGE groups blocking traffic can be a 10 year stretch or $150,000 fine. On average it’s 3 years, even for dip****s Aren’t Stopping Oil. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Socks Junior Posted January 28 #13 Share Posted January 28 1 hour ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said: Obstructing traffic is a 1 year term, $2000 fine or both. LARGE groups blocking traffic can be a 10 year stretch or $150,000 fine. On average it’s 3 years, even for dip****s Aren’t Stopping Oil. Okay! Actually, I have one funny "Just Stop Oil" story. Was in London, north of Hyde Park, maybe? Some park. Tanker was doing delivery to a petrol station and some nobs had jumped on top and chained themselves to it. Police were hoisting them off, and it was a pretty diverting way to spend a few minutes. Some accomplices of the dumbos were handing out pamphlets, and asked if I wanted one. "No thanks, just enjoying watching the idiots getting hauled off the truck" was apparently not the answer they were looking for. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted January 31 #14 Share Posted January 31 On 1/28/2025 at 2:35 PM, Doc Socks Junior said: So a certain amount of violence is fine? The guy shoving nurses and spraining their ankles is just "any excuse"? Normally, I'd say no. But IMHO it depends on the punishment. A crime is a crime, but I don't think a bruise is worth a person going to prison for 3 years. As far as I've found, there's been little abuse of this law in charging people. Most of the anger is in the punishment levels. Quote If someone was accosting my wife while she was in labor, like these brave "heroes" were doing. Eh. They could reap what they sow. Well, if your wife is in labor and entering a abortion clinic, doesn't that equal late, late, term abortion? Why not have the baby born than cut it into pieces. It's probably easier. I'd probably be mad too. Hey you're messing up my wife's appointment to have our baby killed, you b*******. Quote Not really. For the repeat offender who is engaging in purely "nonviolent physical obstruction", the law states that: The said example woman would have to be engaging in violence to get imprisonment up to 10 years. Not just "praying silently". Not the way I read it. It seems to me to be calling out the bodily injury as an exception to the ten years, just as death is after. Quote for a subsequent offense; and except that if bodily injury results, the length of imprisonment shall be not more than 10 years, and if death results, it shall be for any term of years or for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Socks Junior Posted January 31 #15 Share Posted January 31 44 minutes ago, DieChecker said: Normally, I'd say no. But IMHO it depends on the punishment. A crime is a crime, but I don't think a bruise is worth a person going to prison for 3 years. As far as I've found, there's been little abuse of this law in charging people. Most of the anger is in the punishment levels. So, who went to prison for 3 years for a bruise? It seems like at least your own ire - and probably other people's - is based on a misplaced notion of the actual sentences. As we discovered by actually looking at the facts of the matter, none of these people got anywhere near 10 years (your original contention). Also, your original contention was that people who are across the street, silent, in public property, are getting years in prison. I still haven't found any good examples of that. Could you provide the examples? 44 minutes ago, DieChecker said: Well, if your wife is in labor and entering a abortion clinic, doesn't that equal late, late, term abortion? Why not have the baby born than cut it into pieces. It's probably easier. I'd probably be mad too. Hey you're messing up my wife's appointment to have our baby killed, you b*******. Ah, you're a funny guy. But not a guy, apparently, who bothers to learn much about the cases you comment on. In this case, it was the 4th month of pregnancy, pre-viability, severe abnormalities. But, you know, yukyukyuk. I'm sure your standup routine would be a hit in the right audience. 44 minutes ago, DieChecker said: Not the way I read it. It seems to me to be calling out the bodily injury as an exception to the ten years, just as death is after. You're reading it incorrectly, then. The exception is in setting the 10 year maximum for cases involving bodily injury. The maximum for cases not involving that, such as your example of "praying quietly", the maximum is 18 months - and that's for subsequent offenses to the first, which has a shorter maximum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted February 1 #16 Share Posted February 1 22 hours ago, Doc Socks Junior said: So, who went to prison for 3 years for a bruise? It seems like at least your own ire - and probably other people's - is based on a misplaced notion of the actual sentences. As we discovered by actually looking at the facts of the matter, none of these people got anywhere near 10 years (your original contention). Also, your original contention was that people who are across the street, silent, in public property, are getting years in prison. I still haven't found any good examples of that. Could you provide the examples? Well, the 10 years was referring to it being a harsh law. Not specifically to a soecific convicted individual. I looked around and here are some examples. https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/260611/meet-the-pro-life-prisoners-whom-trump-is-expected-to-pardon Quote Bevelyn Beatty Williams, a young mother of a 2-year-old girl, was sentenced to nearly three and a half years in prison for protesting inside an abortion clinic in New York City. According to the DOJ, she pressed her body against a door to hold it closed, which injured the hand of a staff member. Three years for a bruised hand. Quote Jonathan Darnel, 42 years old, 2 years and 10 months in prison Lauren Handy, 30 years old, 4 years and 9 months in prison John Hinshaw, 69 years old, 21 months in prison Now maybe there were other convictions, but each of these got more than 18 months. All were over a year. Here is a lady who got 2 years for blocking the waiting room. https://www.westernjournal.com/judge-sentences-75-year-old-woman-praying-abortion-clinic-taunts-horrified-husband-christian-faith-report/?utm_source=site&utm_medium=MSN&utm_campaign=syndication&utm_content=2024-06-04 Quote 75-year-old Paulette Harlow was sentenced on Friday by Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly to two years in prison for praying outside of a Washington D.C. abortion clinic four years ago. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/justice/3024975/activists-blocked-dc-abortion-clinic-combined-23-years-prison/?utm_source=msn&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=msn_feed Quote Harlow, for her part, was found by Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly to have "jostled past three employees" and shoved a clinic manager into a chair in a waiting room, though the manager was not injured. Two years for "jostling". Pretty extreme violence that. Quote Ah, you're a funny guy. But not a guy, apparently, who bothers to learn much about the cases you comment on. In this case, it was the 4th month of pregnancy, pre-viability, severe abnormalities. But, you know, yukyukyuk. I'm sure your standup routine would be a hit in the right audience. Ah, well, than I am truly sorry. I thought it a hypothetical. And "in labor" usually means in the process of being born. Which normally is at full term. You didn't even suggest it was a miscarriage. You did say "in labor". Again, I'm sorry for being rude of a bad situation. Quote You're reading it incorrectly, then. The exception is in setting the 10 year maximum for cases involving bodily injury. The maximum for cases not involving that, such as your example of "praying quietly", the maximum is 18 months - and that's for subsequent offenses to the first, which has a shorter maximum. Reading it again, and reading the Wikipedia, it seems I was wrong. 10 years is only if you cause an injury. The wiki article is more clear in the sentencing wording. Yet we do have a bunch of examples of people getting two and three years. Likely they had tresspass or other stuff added, but point is still the same. These people were pretty non-violent. Many are elderly. Most were first instances. I'm not losing sleep over them being pardoned. Biden pardoned 2500 drug convicts. Many of them hardened criminals, with violent pasts.... Sure, its WhatAboutism, but its also true. NOTE: The actual lady who got arrested for silently praying was in the UK. I got that mixed up also. My wife got it off Facebook, and I didn't get that detail from her. Apparently she got a settlement from the police and an applogy. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gze361j7xo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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