Mexican president asks how cartels in Mexico process weapons from the U.S. military

[Unusual Tournament]

 

[+and-then]

What, does she not know there is a thriving global trade of such weapons?  Manufacturers in other countries build and sell AR-type weapons and have for years.  That said, IF she has proof that the US is selling them directly then she needs to present that evidence to Trump and something will be done about it.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

CIAks not gonna be happy with that …

[Michelle]

Obama's fast and furious.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia

[+and-then]

1 minute ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

CIAks not gonna be happy with that …

A lot of agencies and departments in the US aren't going to be happy with the new transparency being forced on them.  The only hidden sale of US weapons to the cartels that has been proven happened under Obama and a CBP officer was killed with one of them.

[+Desertrat56]

5 minutes ago, and-then said:

What, does she not know there is a thriving global trade of such weapons?  Manufacturers in other countries build and sell AR-type weapons and have for years.  That said, IF she has proof that the US is selling them directly then she needs to present that evidence to Trump and something will be done about it.

Trump won't do anything about it and other countries do not manufacture U.S. military weapons.   There are a lot of ways  cartels get those weapons and it does not come from other countries.   Why do you pretend we don't have U.S. citizen criminals selling military weapons?  

[Megaro]

I agree with the President.  If there are weapons that are flowing from the US to the cartels, let's bring it out in the open and end it. 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

4 minutes ago, Megaro said:

I agree with the President.  If there are weapons that are flowing from the US to the cartels, let's bring it out in the open and end it. 

Nah… what you do is “Mossad it” and take over the business/es doing to the supplying and sneak in explosives and one day it’s Foruth of July south of the border!

[+and-then]

5 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Trump won't do anything about it

You have no proof of that, it is an opinion.

 

6 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

other countries do not manufacture U.S. military weapons

I've done a private sale of an AR-15 to a guy with an FFL and he made it clear that he converts these weapons to full- auto versions and sells them for - back then - over 15,000 dollars.  If some guy with an FFL can legally do that conversion, companies in other countries certainly can.  As I said, IF there is proof they are coming directly from the US, she should make it available and the problem can be dealt with.

 

8 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Why do you pretend we don't have U.S. citizen criminals selling military weapons?

I made no such claim.  I simply refuse to bite into another "Orange Man Bad" "scandal" without proof.  Why do you assume the worst without factual proof?

[Unusual Tournament]

31 minutes ago, and-then said:

What, does she not know there is a thriving global trade of such weapons?  Manufacturers in other countries build and sell AR-type weapons and have for years.  That said, IF she has proof that the US is selling them directly then she needs to present that evidence to Trump and something will be done about it.

Hang on, I thought you were all for “draining the swamp”?

[Unusual Tournament]

You’re not gonna like this one, @and-then

 

[Unusual Tournament]

32 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Trump won't do anything about it and other countries do not manufacture U.S. military weapons.   There are a lot of ways  cartels get those weapons and it does not come from other countries.   Why do you pretend we don't have U.S. citizen criminals selling military weapons?  

I believe it goes further than just opportunistic scum bags selling weapons and expertise to drug cartels. To operate on the scale they do, you need government protection (whether Mexican or American) to continue without so much as raising an eyebrow. You need money laundering and more importantly pay offs. Let’s see if Trump raises hell by unleashing the military or whether he just falls lock step with the rest of his predecessors. 

[Gromdor]

Here is an article from a few years back talking about it: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mexican-drug-cartels-american-weapons-smuggled-across-border/

It's not like it's a secret.

[DarkHunter]

Would be nice if the president of Mexico said exactly what American weapons that are exclusively used by the American military that have ended up in Mexico.

Just looking at the guns, not including anti-armor weapons, that both America and Mexico army use or have used, not going to do this for every branch of both, that are made in America include

• M4 Carbine (assault rifle)
• M1911 (pistol)
• Barrett M82 (50 cal anti-material rifle)
• M249 (light machine gun)
• M2 Browning (heavy machine gun)
• Mk 19 (grenade launcher)
• M203 (grenade launcher)
• M67 (grenade)
• Remington 870 (shotgun)

The Mexican army also uses a lot of weapons produced in Europe that America may or may not use.  Given the rarity, difficulty, and cost in obtaining military grade weapons in America it seems more likely that the Mexican cartels have obtained most of their military grade weapons either from the Mexican military, which traditionally has been the accepted source for most military grade weapons the cartels have, or third party arms dealers who are probably selling European and/or Warsaw Pact weapons.  Warsaw Pact weapons and ammunition is still insanely plentiful and relatively cheap. 

There is also the issue of weapon licensing which complicates the matter further.  For example taking just the M4 carbine besides America making them Belgium, Malaysia, Turkey, and the Philippines have weapons licensing to produce the M4 carbine too but they will be called something different. 

Then there are clone or near clone weapons like the German made HK416 which is extremely similar to the M4 carbine in looks and appearance but are different guns.  Both the M4 and HK416 have an upper and lower receiver design with each receiver being interchangeable between the two with the only significant difference between the two being in the upper receivers with the M4 using direct impingement and the HK416 using short stroke gas piston.  

Ultimately it sounds like the Mexican president is just trying to shift blame and attention to America.

[Megaro]

2 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Here is an article from a few years back talking about it: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mexican-drug-cartels-american-weapons-smuggled-across-border/

It's not like it's a secret.

Gromdor, I think the problem pointed out in the CBS article is less ominous than the issue being raised by the President of Mexico.  The CBS article talks about "military grade weapons" that are being smuggled across the border to the cartels from Americans who buy weapons from "gun stores and online dealers".  They have a picture of a few handguns, a semi-auto AR-15, and some mags and ammo.  This kind of stuff can be found on top of the kitchen counters in most people's trailer homes in Florida. 😛  The metropolitan CBS anchors probably see that all as military hardware.  But it is nowhere close.

The President specifically says weapons for "the exclusive use of the US Military."  That is far more worrisome based upon capacity to cause death and destruction.  Those are high tech bang-bangs that can be used to wage real wars: tripod and helicopter mounted machine guns, automatic canons, grenade launchers, missile launchers, and so forth.

They are both bad news.  But they have different supply sources.  The alarming quote from the article you cited was from Ambassador Landau: "This has been a major bipartisan failure of the U.S. Government for decades." 

[jmccr8]

Mexican drug cartels have been smuggling a vast arsenal of even military-grade weapons out of the U.S. with the help of American citizens, a CBS Reports investigation has found.

Exclusively-obtained U.S. intelligence documents and interviews with half a dozen current and former officials reveal that the American government has known this for years but, sources said, it's done little to stop these weapons trafficking networks inside the United States, which move up to a million firearms across the border annually, including belt-fed miniguns and grenade launchers.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mexican-drug-cartels-american-weapons-smuggled-across-border/&ved=2ahUKEwjght-fvbWLAxUGODQIHV6uPTEQFnoECDsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2QU12KgraqHHv1UHkzk9T3

[jmccr8]

Over the next five years, I followed American guns from dealers in Arizona and Texas across the border and into the hands of organized crime groups in Mexico. As they have competed for control over trafficking routes to supply drugs to the U.S. market, these groups have built arsenals of weapons, including military-style semi-automatic rifles like AR-15s and AK-47s, and .50 caliber Barretts, which cartel snipers have used to attack the Mexican security forces. I talked to smugglers and buyers and to youths forcefully recruited by gangs and cartels.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/mexican-cartels-atf-guns-usa-1235004978/&ved=2ahUKEwjght-fvbWLAxUGODQIHV6uPTEQFnoECC8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw1WC344Tz8AV_73p342uV5q

 

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://san.com/cc/mexican-drug-cartels-claim-to-have-sophisticated-us-military-weapons/&ved=2ahUKEwjght-fvbWLAxUGODQIHV6uPTEQFnoECDIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw26CNtdcoreHjSZfi3k4yZS

And the list goes on

[Unusual Tournament]

1 hour ago, DarkHunter said:

Would be nice if the president of Mexico said exactly what American weapons that are exclusively used by the American military that have ended up in Mexico.

Just looking at the guns, not including anti-armor weapons, that both America and Mexico army use or have used, not going to do this for every branch of both, that are made in America include

• M4 Carbine (assault rifle)
• M1911 (pistol)
• Barrett M82 (50 cal anti-material rifle)
• M249 (light machine gun)
• M2 Browning (heavy machine gun)
• Mk 19 (grenade launcher)
• M203 (grenade launcher)
• M67 (grenade)
• Remington 870 (shotgun)

The Mexican army also uses a lot of weapons produced in Europe that America may or may not use.  Given the rarity, difficulty, and cost in obtaining military grade weapons in America it seems more likely that the Mexican cartels have obtained most of their military grade weapons either from the Mexican military, which traditionally has been the accepted source for most military grade weapons the cartels have, or third party arms dealers who are probably selling European and/or Warsaw Pact weapons.  Warsaw Pact weapons and ammunition is still insanely plentiful and relatively cheap. 

There is also the issue of weapon licensing which complicates the matter further.  For example taking just the M4 carbine besides America making them Belgium, Malaysia, Turkey, and the Philippines have weapons licensing to produce the M4 carbine too but they will be called something different. 

Then there are clone or near clone weapons like the German made HK416 which is extremely similar to the M4 carbine in looks and appearance but are different guns.  Both the M4 and HK416 have an upper and lower receiver design with each receiver being interchangeable between the two with the only significant difference between the two being in the upper receivers with the M4 using direct impingement and the HK416 using short stroke gas piston.  

Ultimately it sounds like the Mexican president is just trying to shift blame and attention to America.

The Mexican president is referring to FGM-148 Javelin Missile. The infrared guided missile launcher is reportedly capable of blowing up tanks and taking down low-flying helicopters.

https://san.com/cc/mexican-drug-cartels-claim-to-have-sophisticated-us-military-weapons/

[DarkHunter]

11 minutes ago, Unusual Tournament said:

The Mexican president is referring to FGM-148 Javelin Missile. The infrared guided missile launcher is reportedly capable of blowing up tanks and taking down low-flying helicopters.

https://san.com/cc/mexican-drug-cartels-claim-to-have-sophisticated-us-military-weapons/

The first problem is that the only evidence of the cartels having a Javelin missile was incorrect and it was actually an AT4.  

Secondly even if the cartels got a Javelin missile, which there is no conclusive evidence yet, it does not mean they got it from America.  For the AT4 besides from America using it there are 33 other countries/groups that use the AT4 which include Venezuela, Syrian Democratic Forces, Lebanon, Kurdistan Workers Party, Free Syrian Army, Iraq, Dominican Republic, Colombia, Brazil, and Argentina.  This isn't factoring in groups that have captured AT4s.  As for the Javelin there are 23 other nations/groups that use the Javelin which include Bahrain, Jordan, Libya, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and UAE.  

Ultimately while either an AT4 or Javelin would be more expensive and difficult to acquire, especially a Javelin, a cartel with millions of dollars could easily acquire either without either being from America.  Both weapon systems are used extensively throughout the world and aren't exclusive to America.

[psyche101]

Trump offered Mexico US forces in his first term to battle cartels. Mexico said no thanks. 

Cartels don't seem concerned, and I would be surprised if they were.

Mexican drug cartel 'not worried' about Trump: Reporter’s notebook

 

If the Mexican cartels are concerned about President Donald Trump's plans for them, it sure didn't seem like it this night.

If only because someone who was worried probably wouldn't show a reporter the guns he'd just smuggled from the U.S. nor the fentanyl he was about to ship back north. Not to mention a safe house filled with migrants about to be crossed illegally at the border wall.

 

[Michelle]

9 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

If only because someone who was worried probably wouldn't show a reporter

You've got to be kidding. Reporters have interviewed almost every terrorist group in the world. Granted, a couple of them haven't come back alive. Those people love to brag and flex.

[psyche101]

1 minute ago, Michelle said:

You've got to be kidding. Reporters have interviewed almost every terrorist group in the world. Granted, a couple of them haven't come back alive. Those people love to brag and flex.

That line is from the article. The actual witness. 

If they are scared of Trump they wouldn't be so brazen. That's just common sense. 

This is the cartel. If they saw that old clown as a threat they would just take him out, and do better than mentally unwell people would. It wouldn't be a near miss if it was cartel. He would be riddled with bullets even at the cost of cartel lives. 

[Michelle]

2 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

That line is from the article. The actual witness. 

If they are scared of Trump they wouldn't be so brazen. That's just common sense. 

This is the cartel. If they saw that old clown as a threat they would just take him out, and do better than mentally unwell people would. It wouldn't be a near miss if it was cartel. He would be riddled with bullets even at the cost of cartel lives. 

It's the 3700 forces they have to worry about. They got used to Biden doing nothing and they think Trump is going to half ****. All he has to do is send some more down to the border.

[psyche101]

11 minutes ago, Michelle said:

It's the 3700 forces they have to worry about. They got used to Biden doing nothing and they think Trump is going to half ****. All he has to do is send some more down to the border.

37,000 forces aren't protecting Trump. 

He can't cross the border. They've got him there. And if they do assassinate him, who's going to take that torch? 

Trump's just a man, and a poor example at that. He can vanish just like anyone who crosses cartels do. 

[Michelle]

4 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

He can't cross the border. They've got him there. And if they do assassinate him, who's going to take that torch? 

Anybody with any sense wouldn't be near the border. Except the military.