U.S. confirms: Ukraine will not join NATO and no American troops will be deployed in Ukraine

[Unusual Tournament]

 

[Piney]

2 minutes ago, Unusual Tournament said:

 

Libs of TikTok....

Can I have more hate speech please?

[Unusual Tournament]

1 minute ago, Piney said:

Libs of TikTok....

Can I have more hate speech please?

I’m disappointed you didn’t click on the play button instead you passed judgement on where it was originally posted. 
 

If you had did, Piney, you would have realised the U.S. is distancing itself from Ukraine and without facial and strategic help, Europe alone will not be able to save Ukraine from falling back in to Russia’s orbit

[Piney]

2 minutes ago, Unusual Tournament said:

I’m disappointed you didn’t click on the play button instead you passed judgement on where it was originally posted. 
 

If you had did, Piney, you would have realised the U.S. is distancing itself from Ukraine and without facial and strategic help, Europe alone will not be able to save Ukraine from falling back in to Russia’s orbit

I know. 

And this site is gloating.

You know what Putty is going to do with the Ukraine civies... 😕

And Chaya gloats.....how ****ing evil..

[Trelane]

It has been a long, long standing order that US troops would not be deployed to the Ukraine. President Biden made that abundantly clear very early on. That's why some folks got their undergarments ....dirty when the French started making statements about their troops being deployed in support. Funny, since the US hasn't taken the lead from the French in about 250+ years, on anything.

The NATO admissions discussion is still pending as well as the vote for membership.

How is this news again? 

Edited February 12 by Trelane

[+and-then]

5 minutes ago, Trelane said:

How is this news again?

Curious timing though.  We get a prisoner or two released from Russia, and then SecDef makes this statement.  Trump seems to be serious about being a "peacemaker" and I'm all for it except when it amounts to appeasement.  I have never agreed with how involved we've been in Ukraine and I don't think that a lot of that $ was spent as it should have been but turning Ukraine over at this point could lead to a more serious conflict not too far down the road.  Hell, maybe it's inescapable.

[Unusual Tournament]

- No NATO membership
- No return to pre-2014 borders
- No U.S. troops in Ukraine
- No more relying on U.S. for the majority of military funding
 

Zelensky will be torn to pieces 

[joseraul]

Putin and Trump.. sitting in a tree

 

K-I-S-S-I-N-G

Edited February 12 by joseraul

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

1 hour ago, and-then said:

Curious timing though.  We get a prisoner or two released from Russia, and then SecDef makes this statement.  Trump seems to be serious about being a "peacemaker" and I'm all for it except when it amounts to appeasement.  I have never agreed with how involved we've been in Ukraine and I don't think that a lot of that $ was spent as it should have been but turning Ukraine over at this point could lead to a more serious conflict not too far down the road.  Hell, maybe it's inescapable.

Does make you wonder what promises Team Trump has secured from Team Putin for this (very favourable to Russia) deal. 

[pellinore]

There are a few facts in all this:  Trump is a stupid moron.

The MAGA voters who elected him are also stupid morons.

Musk is not stupid but he is a moron and he is taking advantage of Trump.

Putin is cruel and evil and will take advantage of Trump and Musk's need to get the Ukraine war ended so they can say they did it.

The average US voter will be worse off, financially and politically, because they have gone down the route of popularism and not democracy. 

[A rather obscure Bassoon]

29 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Does make you wonder what promises Team Trump has secured from Team Putin for this (very favourable to Russia) deal. 

Trump already said he was removing Troops from Europe, I think he decided that Putin can have the Ukraine.

Europe cannot back the Ukraine indefinitely with Cash and Weapons, maybe the Orange man in Chief has plans to pull out of NATO Who knows..

 

[A rather obscure Bassoon]

4 minutes ago, pellinore said:

There are a few facts in all this:  Trump is a stupid moron.

The MAGA voters who elected him are also stupid morons.

Musk is not stupid but he is a moron and he is taking advantage of Trump.

Putin is cruel and evil and will take advantage of Trump and Musk's need to get the Ukraine war ended so they can say they did it.

The average US voter will be worse off, financially and politically, because they have gone down the route of popularism and not democracy. 

 Without doubt Trumpette’s got screwed over.Most Maga voters are so dumb they thought China,Canada and Mexico paid the Tarriffs to the US Government.They now are realizing that the Tariffs are passed onto them as Consumers.

Sucks to be them…

[A rather obscure Bassoon]

2 hours ago, Unusual Tournament said:

- No NATO membership
- No return to pre-2014 borders
- No U.S. troops in Ukraine
- No more relying on U.S. for the majority of military funding
 

Zelensky will be torn to pieces 

Zelensky is done, maybe Trump already stabbed him in the back and made secret agreements with Putin.

[+and-then]

57 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Does make you wonder what promises Team Trump has secured from Team Putin for this (very favourable to Russia) deal. 

It will be interesting to watch.  His voters were mostly for cutting off the war in Ukraine and to a point, I agree, but if he doesn't follow up with ramping up OUR armaments production to replace what was given away, I'll be pee-owed.  Putin was never going to stop and Ukrainians were going to continue to hemorrhage but simply trying to cut them off and walk away is a mistake.  It's time for the EU to begin looking after its defenses and stop relying on a NATO that has a crisis coming from one of its largest members - Turkey.  Erdog needs to be cut loose, and new bases created elsewhere.

[Tatetopa]

Maybe the US should withdraw from NATO.  Its pretty clear we really don't care what happens to Europe. It is up to the EU now to fill the void and defend themselves.  For them, the invader is at the doorstep. No BS Russia invaded Ukraine.  To end the war tomorrow all Russia has to do is withdraw, but they won't. 

Europe has to remember that after Ukraine, it will be the Baltic States, and Poland.  Europe should go all in to demilitarize Russia now, or the world will find itself in a bigger war in a few years.

If the US wants to stand by and watch, then fine.  Europe still has to do the job to save themselves

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

Europe still has to do the job to save themselves

Yes, they do.  The US also needs to substantially increase arms production as proof that we know Putin is a threat and so he will know we know.

[+OverSword]

Since when is a war between Russia and Ukraine a NATO affair?  I suppose if NATO members send troops to Ukraine then it might become a NATO affair but NATO was meant to check Russian aggression against member countries not to stop all military adventurism by Russia or to support any member that decides to take up arms against Russia in a third party environment.  No, I don't believe this is a NATO fight. How many people here are for sending one of your children to fight a war with Russia in Ukraine?

[WVK]

2 hours ago, pellinore said:

There are a few facts in all this:  Trump is a stupid moron.

The MAGA voters who elected him are also stupid morons.

Musk is not stupid but he is a moron and he is taking advantage of Trump.

Putin is cruel and evil and will take advantage of Trump and Musk's need to get the Ukraine war ended so they can say they did it.

The average US voter will be worse off, financially and politically, because they have gone down the route of popularism and not democracy. 

Belief in the domino effect got 58,000 US soldiers killed in Vietnam for nothing.

https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1964-68v01/d209#:~:text=The “domino effect” appears to,cause%2C their fall to communism.

[Unusual Tournament]

2 hours ago, pellinore said:

There are a few facts in all this:  Trump is a stupid moron.

The MAGA voters who elected him are also stupid morons.

Musk is not stupid but he is a moron and he is taking advantage of Trump.

Putin is cruel and evil and will take advantage of Trump and Musk's need to get the Ukraine war ended so they can say they did it.

The average US voter will be worse off, financially and politically, because they have gone down the route of popularism and not democracy. 

Basically the guy that did the wrong thing is being rewarded and the country that was wronged was punished.

Of course this was exactly expected because U.S. foreign policy over stretched to create a new reality. Expecting Russia to do nothing was folly. Still after so much effort by the neo cons Trump has surrendered American control of Europe.

Europe will form its own defence force and foreign policy to manage Russia and other threats. 
 

Pax Americana is over including all its privileges 

[Unusual Tournament]

2 hours ago, A rather obscure Bassoon said:

Trump already said he was removing Troops from Europe, I think he decided that Putin can have the Ukraine.

Europe cannot back the Ukraine indefinitely with Cash and Weapons, maybe the Orange man in Chief has plans to pull out of NATO Who knows..

 

Trump decided a lot. As you correctly stated, Ukraine will fall back into Russia’s orbit and Europe will become the fourth wheel of power in the world. Trade, politics, investment, finance and defence will not necessarily align with America. 
 

This is a earth tilting event

[Unusual Tournament]

44 minutes ago, and-then said:

Yes, they do.  The US also needs to substantially increase arms production as proof that we know Putin is a threat and so he will know we know.

Trump, if I’m not mistaken, has advised Hegseth to start cutting the pentagon budget. I think the opposite will occur 

[Unusual Tournament]

2 hours ago, A rather obscure Bassoon said:

Zelensky is done, maybe Trump already stabbed him in the back and made secret agreements with Putin.

I wrote about this in 2023. Zelensky over stayed in his office and now the face of the resistance is now the face of American betrayal. His future will be split between the south of France and south Miami Beach 

[CrimsonKing]

6 minutes ago, Unusual Tournament said:

Trump decided a lot. As you correctly stated, Ukraine will fall back into Russia’s orbit and Europe will become the fourth wheel of power in the world. Trade, politics, investment, finance and defence will not necessarily align with America. 
 

This is a earth tilting event

Would have been a bit more helpful if many European countries would have been spending more on defense over the past few decades I reckon...

I've always heard others bragging about all the perks of free healthcare, education,ect. while laughing about how stupid the US spends money...all the while enjoying the protection of the "world's police".

While I do not think just dropping Ukraine this far into this is a good idea,Europe should have been using a bit more foresight... nothing lasts forever,and freedom isn't free.

[A rather obscure Bassoon]

32 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said:

Would have been a bit more helpful if many European countries would have been spending more on defense over the past few decades I reckon...

I've always heard others bragging about all the perks of free healthcare, education,ect. while laughing about how stupid the US spends money...all the while enjoying the protection of the "world's police".

While I do not think just dropping Ukraine this far into this is a good idea,Europe should have been using a bit more foresight... nothing lasts forever,and freedom isn't free.

This just made the possibility of NATO boots on the ground unlikely, the likes of Macron can posture all they want but Militarily European troops without the US would be a very weak proposition.

[Only_]

40 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said:

While I do not think just dropping Ukraine this far into this is a good idea,Europe should have been using a bit more foresight... nothing lasts forever,and freedom isn't free.

I think it should about finding some kind of permanent solution. Seems clear Ukraine will not regain the lost territories, no matter how much money or weapons the U.S. is pumping into the conflict. So there is likely no way to return to a state before the 2022 invasion but hopefully they can negotiate a long-term freeze with some garantees given on both sides.

Edited February 13 by Only_