Russia-Ukraine peace deal/John Bolton denounces Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin peace talks

[+OverSword]

Two stories from The Hill here that I decided to post as one topic.  One a positive take on peace negotiations the other a condemnation of them.  You decide.

Quote

 

President Trump said he’s working to fulfil a campaign promise to end Russia’s three-year invasion of Ukraine, ushering in negotiations with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

After the two leaders spoke by phone, they agreed to “start negotiations immediately” about the war in Ukraine. Trump said he will also meet at some point with Putin in person, likely in Saudi Arabia. 

 

https://thehill.com/newsletters/morning-report/5142495-art-of-russia-ukraine-peace-deal/

Quote

 

Former White House national security adviser John Bolton said Wednesday that President Trump had “effectively surrendered” to Russian President Vladimir Putin ahead of expected peace negotiations, criticizing the administration for suggesting Ukraine be kept out of NATO.

“Well, I don‘t have any expectations anymore. I think we know exactly what‘s going to happen,” Bolton told CNN’s Kaitlan Collins in an interview. “President Trump has effectively surrendered to Putin before the negotiations have even begun.”

 

https://thehill.com/policy/international/5142615-john-bolton-donald-trump-vladimir-putin-ukraine-talks/

 

 

[Gromdor]

Just out of curiosity, is Ukraine involved in these peace talks in any way?  https://www.msn.com/en-us/politics/government/russia-rejoices-at-trump-putin-call-as-zelensky-rejects-talks-without-ukraine-present/ar-AA1yZJrz?ocid=BingNewsSerp

[+OverSword]

7 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Just out of curiosity, is Ukraine involved in these peace talks in any way?  https://www.msn.com/en-us/politics/government/russia-rejoices-at-trump-putin-call-as-zelensky-rejects-talks-without-ukraine-present/ar-AA1yZJrz?ocid=BingNewsSerp

Click the first link in post one.

[Gromdor]

2 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Click the first link in post one.

My bad.  I forgot my <sarcasm> tag.

[MrsGently]

Sorry that's what's happening when you win in a war and have the upperhand when you enter negotiations: you will keep the territory,

especially if you effectively, majority-opinionwise and a good part by nationality, already before "the war" had "a war" where it wasn't really Ukraine's anymore. Like Donbass.

Everything else is just delusional.

[Piney]

32 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Just out of curiosity, is Ukraine involved in these peace talks in any way?

No, but they have to pay for the lunches. 

[Tatetopa]

If a great negotiator wanted to bring an equitable peace to Ukraine, he wouldn't have thrown away Ukraine joining NATO and getting back lost land before  the negotiations even started. Those are trading cards worth saving for the talks.

Ukraine better use the peace to build up their defenses the same way Russia will rebuild its army.

[+OverSword]

18 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

If a great negotiator wanted to bring an equitable peace to Ukraine, he wouldn't have thrown away Ukraine joining NATO and getting back lost land before  the negotiations even started. Those are trading cards worth saving for the talks.

Ukraine better use the peace to build up their defenses the same way Russia will rebuild its army.

Or those were what got putin to the table

[Tatetopa]

2 hours ago, OverSword said:

Or those were what got putin to the table

Or he is desperate because his army is failing and his economy is in the dumper  and his people are looking for open windows.  Even China is turning away some of his oil tankers.

[+OverSword]

27 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Or he is desperate because his army is failing and his economy is in the dumper  and his people are looking for open windows.  Even China is turning away some of his oil tankers.

He does not care about his people and he has nukes.

[acidhead]

2 hours ago, OverSword said:

Or those were what got putin to the table

The Russians(Putin) have made it clear what preconditions they want before entering negotiations a long time ago:

-Ukraine must declare itself a neutral state, explicitly stating it will not join NATO.

-Ukrainian forces must withdraw from the territories of Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, and Zaporizhzhia regions, which Russia claims as its own following annexations. 

-Russia wants assurances that there will be no Western military bases or exercises involving foreign troops on Ukrainian soil.

[Tatetopa]

35 minutes ago, acidhead said:

The Russians(Putin) have made it clear what preconditions they want before entering negotiations a long time ago:

-Ukraine must declare itself a neutral state, explicitly stating it will not join NATO.

-Ukrainian forces must withdraw from the territories of Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson, and Zaporizhzhia regions, which Russia claims as its own following annexations. 

-Russia wants assurances that there will be no Western military bases or exercises involving foreign troops on Ukrainian soil.

So **** em. That is like giving a free pass to the guy who broke into your house and killed your children.

[Duke Wellington]

At no stage during the Ukraine-Russia war have Ukraine had it within their ability to win.

Despite all the lying and magical thinking in the media, it is an unwinnable war for Ukraine. While it might not be right that they`ve been invaded, trying to prevent a peace which Russia would accept, because of ideals instead of pragmatism, is insane and will lead to many more people dying in a pointless war.

The current peace treaty is not viable because it requires UK and EU troops to occupy Ukraine along a border zone with Russia. That is something Russia will not accept, because once its in place Ukraine will just tare up the treaty then join the EU and NATO. Hence, the only viable peace is one of the following:

1. Unoccupied Ukraine declares neutrality, Russian and NATO troops joint police it.

2. Russia gets the whole of Ukraine.

The only other way out of this mess is to equip Ukraine with a nuclear deterrent. If we did that though I would expect Russia to give Syria, Iran, and Cuba, nukes.

[Tatetopa]

46 minutes ago, OverSword said:

He does not care about his people and he has nukes.

True,  but his people are beginning to care less about Putin. Its a good lesson.  You can't lie a country into prosperity nor depend on one brain to lead a world power and let personal desires override the needs of the country.  Interest and inflation are high and the ruble is tanked. Most of the front line troops with training are dead. His list of allies is getting thin.  It is not certain he can prevail.

[pellinore]

4 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

If a great negotiator wanted to bring an equitable peace to Ukraine, he wouldn't have thrown away Ukraine joining NATO and getting back lost land before  the negotiations even started. Those are trading cards worth saving for the talks.

Ukraine better use the peace to build up their defenses the same way Russia will rebuild its army.

Trump is turning out to be a worse POTUS than I expected, and I had very low expectations. He is likely to make the world a more dangerous place than it was.

[psyche101]

 

 

[Tatetopa]

17 minutes ago, pellinore said:

Trump is turning out to be a worse POTUS than I expected, and I had very low expectations. He is likely to make the world a more dangerous place than it was.

Its a nightmare for those who agree with him, but for those who love his bully ways and victimhood, it will be grand.  Looks like it is going to happen pretty quick though, both the good and bad. 

[pellinore]

Just now, Tatetopa said:

Its a nightmare for those who agree with him, but for those who love his bully ways and victimhood, it will be grand.  Looks like it is going to happen pretty quick though, both the good and bad. 

It is his stupidity that will always be a stumbling block. That, and his vanity. No one has had to deal with a POTUS like him before- he has no morality or strategy. He has no redeeming qualities: https://youtu.be/TUye3gR1QIk?si=QUzXpnjRTOkvjBnq

 

[pellinore]

Here is Reform UK ( a right-wing UK MAGA supporting party) being demolished over their support for Trump's cowardice and appeasement:

 

[jmccr8]

Not sure how much of a peace deal Trump thinks he can enforce. From the looks of it all he is doing is pulling American support because he didn't get the 500 billion deal from Zelensky for rare earth and oil. UK has already said they were going to give several billion in support for this year and bombs are still dropping so I have my doubts Putin will stop now that he has been given the go ahead. 

[Gromdor]

Perhaps Ukraine would have better luck getting support from China?  They seem to have rare earths to offer them.  $400 billion worth could probably get a million Chinese Troops.

[jmccr8]

13 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Perhaps Ukraine would have better luck getting support from China?  They seem to have rare earths to offer them.  $400 billion worth could probably get a million Chinese Troops.

HI Gromdor

I think China will be negotiating trade deals will several countries that Trump thinks he is threatening to his advantage. 

[preacherman76]

On 2/13/2025 at 3:24 PM, Tatetopa said:

If a great negotiator wanted to bring an equitable peace to Ukraine, he wouldn't have thrown away Ukraine joining NATO and getting back lost land before  the negotiations even started. Those are trading cards worth saving for the talks.

Ukraine better use the peace to build up their defenses the same way Russia will rebuild its army.

So you think starting peace negotiations with long known deal breakers is a good way forward? 

[preacherman76]

On 2/13/2025 at 7:27 PM, Tatetopa said:

So **** em. That is like giving a free pass to the guy who broke into your house and killed your children.

Easy enough for you to say. You don’t have to live is these war torn areas. 

[Katniss]

Now don't kill the messenger, I know some people here support Putin , but a few people are saying Ukraine will get back most parts of Crimea while Russia will keep the parts of Ukraine they occupy now, in the final peace deal.

Edit: Spelling

Edited February 15 by Katniss