Vance’s real warning to Europe: America is the danger to democracy

[pellinore]

When JD Vance took the stage at the Munich Security Conference last week, he issued a stern warning. The US vice-president told the assembled politicians and diplomats that free speech and democracy are under attack from European elites: “The threat I worry the most about vis-à-vis Europe is not Russia, it’s not China, it’s . . . the threat from within.”

If Vance hoped to persuade his audience, rather than simply insult it, he failed. Indeed, his speech backfired spectacularly, convincing many listeners that America itself is now a threat to Europe. In the throng outside the conference hall, a prominent German politician told me: “That was a direct assault on European democracy.” A senior diplomat said: “It’s very clear now, Europe is alone.” When I asked him if he now regarded the US as an adversary, he replied: “Yes.”

The most positive verdict I heard on the speech was that it was “puerile bull****”, but aimed at a US audience and therefore safely ignored. But unpack Vance’s speech — and place it in the context of Donald Trump’s decision to engage Vladimir Putin, while sidelining Ukraine and Europe — and it becomes clear that American culture wars, international security and European politics can no longer be disentangled.

What Vance did was to subvert the ideas of freedom, democracy and shared values that have underpinned the western alliance for 80 years. 

Vance’s real warning to Europe

Edited February 18 by pellinore

[+and-then]

The leaders in the EU are just pizzed that America is no longer going to co-sign their "social warrior" bull-skype.  Let them wail.  Free ride is over boys.  Time to put on your big boy pants and build a real military to defend YOURSELVES.  If they decide to turn their backs on the US, it will be no loss.

[Ell]

We endure an immense amount of censorship in Europe these last decades, especially during the corona madness.

 

Maybe, since Trump himself got censored, he decided that censoring people is wrong?

[pellinore]

6 minutes ago, and-then said:

The leaders in the EU are just pizzed that America is no longer going to co-sign their "social warrior" bull-skype.  Let them wail.  Free ride is over boys.  Time to put on your big boy pants and build a real military to defend YOURSELVES.  If they decide to turn their backs on the US, it will be no loss.

I'll re-write this so it makes sense: The leaders in the EU are just pizzed that America is no longer a champion of democracy, but instead aligning with the far-Right and Socialism, to the extent of adopting Nazi salutes and sitting at a conference table with a war criminal. The US is losing itself, and it will be a very big loss to the world.

[pellinore]

10 minutes ago, Ell said:

We endure an immense amount of censorship in Europe these last decades, especially during the corona madness.

Maybe, since Trump himself got censored, he decided that censoring people is wrong?

Trump wasn't censored, the moron lost an election and tried insurrection to overturn the result. And Musk , who is hoping to get a Nobel Prize for free speech, is suing people who point out faults in his cars. Some Americans are so dumb, it makes me cross! Not really, you are adorable because you have to pay for education and healthcare, so most of you are simple and free. (I assume you are American, few Europeans are quite so simplistic in their views.)

Edited February 18 by pellinore

[Wickian]

Doesn't at least the UK and Germany have people arrested for posting memes online that don't even have tangential implications towards actual violence or law breaking beyond hurt feelings or criticizing government decisions that do bring actual harm to the population?

[itsnotoutthere]

10 hours ago, pellinore said:

I'll re-write this so it makes sense: The leaders in the EU are just pizzed that America is no longer a champion of democracy, but instead aligning with the far-Right and Socialism, to the extent of adopting Nazi salutes and sitting at a conference table with a war criminal. The US is losing itself, and it will be a very big loss to the world.

'war crminal'... Was Tony Blair there? 

[Ajay0]

I think Vance has some good points.

It is important to remember that the German democracy was subverted by Hitler and his cronies. Same happened in Italy, and shows the vulnerability to western democracies being manipulated by stratocratic and plutocratic elements leading to flawed decision-making to their detriment.

The two world wars which originated in europe with european nations  fighting each other lead to the deaths of around a hundred million people, the worst humanitarian tragedy in recorded history.

It is important that western democracies sanitise themselves off the infestation of stratocratic-plutocratic elements if they are to prevent further such tragedies.

 

[itsnotoutthere]

Well, that was a delicious spectacle. America’s self-made VP gloriously roasting the wizened technocrats of Europe. A Yank from dirt-poor origins sticking it to Europe’s turbo-smug ruling class. How they squirmed as the boy from Ohio chastised them for their indecent desertion of the ideals of liberty, democracy and security. It was like an intellectual waterboarding, and I loved every minute of it.

For 20 minutes, the millennial vice-president upbraided the assembled grey-faced dignitaries over their backsliding from the virtues of the Enlightenment. He lamented ‘the retreat of Europe from some of its most fundamental values’. He invited us to rediscover ‘the blessings of liberty’. Judging by the fits of pique in certain quarters – Vance ‘shocked delegates’ with his ‘blast at Europe’, wailed the babies at the BBC – many an ear is still deaf to his cry for freedom. But some of us are listening.

It was on the liberty to utter, the bedrock virtue of every civilised society, that he issued his most stinging rebukes. ‘Free speech, I fear, is in retreat’, he said. He recounted Europe’s recent acts of nutty censorship. He reminded his audience that German cops raided the homes of citizens ‘suspected of posting anti-feminist comments online’. The old Stasi felt your collar if you criticised your Stalinist betters – the new one comes a’knocking if you mock PC ideologies.

Predictably, there’s been a furious response to Vance’s speech. Among the Economist-reading classes who hate Brexit and think Trump is a monster made by ill-informed *******s, there’s horror at his suggestion that the plebs should be trusted to think and speak as they see fit. He’s ‘attacking Europe’, they wail, oblivious to the truth that it is they who are attacking Europe, from within, with their ruthless dismantling of all the gains and wonders of Europe’s tumultuous political history.

European technocracy and wokeness more broadly are all about insulating decision-making from the pressures and beliefs of the oiks. And now here comes this uppity Yank to tug at that insulation and propose giving back the people their voice and their clout. It’s a wholly welcome intervention.

[itsnotoutthere]

Vance has been loudly accused of “attacking Europe”. No, he didn’t. He gave a devastating critique of the EU and UK leaders who have themselves betrayed the foundations of European democracy and Western civilisation. They are the ones who are attacking what Europe should stand for.

As he said, the most worrying threat to Europe now “is not Russia, it’s not China, it’s not any other external actor. What I worry about is the threat from within, the retreat of Europe from some of its most fundamental values, values shared with the United States of America.” 

Vance’s extraordinary speech was aimed against Europe’s ‘enemy within’— the ruling elites who do not believe in their own nations, peoples or history. Far from being “anti-European”, he came down on the side of the millions of people across Europe who are revolting against the bankrupt old political establishment.

He expressed near-disbelief at the attacks on democracy which mean EU officials can boast of cancelling an election result in Romania, while German politicians demand a ban on the second-most popular party before their general election.

[Setton]

8 hours ago, Wickian said:

Doesn't at least the UK and Germany have people arrested for posting memes online that don't even have tangential implications towards actual violence or law breaking beyond hurt feelings or criticizing government decisions that do bring actual harm to the population?

No.

[pellinore]

12 hours ago, itsnotoutthere said:

'war crminal'... Was Tony Blair there? 

Blair (who agree is a ****e) is not being discussed here. I hope you and stevewinn don't live in Europe (one of you is off to Australia I believe); if you do you are either very stupid or traitors.

[Setton]

1 minute ago, pellinore said:

Blair (who agree is a ****e) is not being discussed here. I hope you and stevewinn don't live in Europe (one of you is off to Australia I believe); if you do you are either very stupid or traitors.

Both is a possibility.

[pellinore]

13 hours ago, Wickian said:

Doesn't at least the UK and Germany have people arrested for posting memes online that don't even have tangential implications towards actual violence or law breaking beyond hurt feelings or criticizing government decisions that do bring actual harm to the population?

The people who do actual harm are the likes of Putin who has invaded a neighboring country, and Trump who is pardoning and excusing armed insurrection. They are the people who are a danger to world peace and killing people by the thousand, not  the "woke" people who speak up for gay rights and plastic pollution and climate issues.

[Duke Wellington]

23 minutes ago, pellinore said:

The people who do actual harm are the likes of Putin who has invaded a neighboring country, and Trump who is pardoning and excusing armed insurrection. They are the people who are a danger to world peace and killing people by the thousand, not  the "woke" people who speak up for gay rights and plastic pollution and climate issues.

Biden is the lunatic who crafted a situation with only two outcomes, none of which were peace.

While I could never vote for Obama, he did have a point that Biden makes really bad foreign policy decisions. But then again, we shouldn`t even be having this conversation, I mean he didn`t even win in 2020 (as least not legitimately!).

What exactly is the EU going to do against Russia? Nothing, Russia is a nuclear power, game over. It seems politics and feelings like fear are coming before logic and reasoning. That is why no one likes the Woke. 1 + 2 doesn`t equal 3 in their heads, instead it can mean anything when the correct feeling is involved, and it even changes from day to day lol.

[Wickian]

7 hours ago, pellinore said:

The people who do actual harm are the likes of Putin who has invaded a neighboring country, and Trump who is pardoning and excusing armed insurrection. They are the people who are a danger to world peace and killing people by the thousand, not  the "woke" people who speak up for gay rights and plastic pollution and climate issues.

Okay?  What does Putin have to do with a conversation on freedom of speech and arresting people for the lack of it in Europe though?

[itsnotoutthere]

On 2/19/2025 at 8:49 AM, Wickian said:

Doesn't at least the UK and Germany have people arrested for posting memes online that don't even have tangential implications towards actual violence or law breaking beyond hurt feelings or criticizing government decisions that do bring actual harm to the population?

Yes.

https://voz.us/en/world/250217/21172/raids-for-uncivilized-memes-in-germany.html

[pellinore]

6 hours ago, Wickian said:

Okay?  What does Putin have to do with a conversation on freedom of speech and arresting people for the lack of it in Europe though?

You haven't understood the article, have you? Or just didn't bother to read it.

[pellinore]

23 hours ago, Duke Wellington said:

What exactly is the EU going to do against Russia? Nothing, Russia is a nuclear power, game over. 

Usual empty-headed post Cookie. The EU is also a nuclear power (and if you had stayed awake at school, you would have learned that the UK has had nuclear deterrent capabilities for many decades).

[Wickian]

12 hours ago, pellinore said:

You haven't understood the article, have you? Or just didn't bother to read it.

The article has multiple topics.  The Russia/Ukraine war is a different topic than Europe's eroding of freedom of speech.  I only brought up the freedom of speech topic, so why respond to me with the Russia topic?

[itsnotoutthere]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/labour-still-doesn-t-get-one-major-reason-uk-is-being-laughed-at-on-world-stage/ar-AA1zvqAX?ocid=BingHp01&cvid=ba5dff790ac848b5b894c2fb60232864&ei=11

[Setton]

8 hours ago, itsnotoutthere said:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/labour-still-doesn-t-get-one-major-reason-uk-is-being-laughed-at-on-world-stage/ar-AA1zvqAX?ocid=BingHp01&cvid=ba5dff790ac848b5b894c2fb60232864&ei=11

As you've been saying for years:

If you don't like it, leave. And save the rest of us from your fake outrage over things you know never happened.

[+and-then]

On 2/18/2025 at 4:44 PM, pellinore said:

I'll re-write this so it makes sense: The leaders in the EU are just pizzed that America is no longer a champion of democracy, but instead aligning with the far-Right and Socialism, to the extent of adopting Nazi salutes and sitting at a conference table with a war criminal. The US is losing itself, and it will be a very big loss to the world.

You're broken, guy.  Even knowing that this war cannot be won by Ukraine without actual NATO troops on the ground, you still advocate for the status quo which means depopulating what's left of Ukraine's male population.  We see this situation differently.  I agree that Ukraine needs some security agreement to keep Putin from coming back in a few years to finish the job, but continuing now to bleed them and our military stocks makes no sense.  Putin will be just as deterred if he sees the US and NATO rearming themselves at a rapid pace and potentially putting more forces on the ground in some of the NATO nations that do not share a border with Russia.

[Abramelin]

On 2/18/2025 at 11:32 PM, and-then said:

The leaders in the EU are just pizzed that America is no longer going to co-sign their "social warrior" bull-skype.  Let them wail.  Free ride is over boys.  Time to put on your big boy pants and build a real military to defend YOURSELVES.  If they decide to turn their backs on the US, it will be no loss.

The US signed a treaty.

Orange Pendek wants to back out of that one.

And he backs out of many other treaties.

Cool guy. You should love a zillionair for having the guts to say, "Fk You All, Ha Ha !!!" I can do whatever I want, and no one is going to stop me  HAHAHA !!

 

In more sane times a couple of guys dressed in white would have calmed him down, and put him in a strait jacket.

But these are not sane times, so we'll have to wait for 4 years, and hope for the best.

[odas]

4 hours ago, Abramelin said:

The US signed a treaty.

Orange Pendek wants to back out of that one.

And he backs out of many other treaties.

Cool guy. You should love a zillionair for having the guts to say, "Fk You All, Ha Ha !!!" I can do whatever I want, and no one is going to stop me  HAHAHA !!

 

In more sane times a couple of guys dressed in white would have calmed him down, and put him in a strait jacket.

But these are not sane times, so we'll have to wait for 4 years, and hope for the best.

We do not have 4 years. 1 month in and the world has changed frightening fast. Don't even want to look into month 3. 

Dark times ahead but democracy will prevail.