Blair secures historic third term

[Talon]

If we cannot discuss these issues in a civil way then this thread will be closed.

Talon you seem bent on making this debate more heated than it already is, by trying to bring in the issue of ethnocentrism.

I find quite insulting that Blackleaf makes openly racist statements and you accuse me of being the aggressor here for defending my people.

I'm not interested in fighting, I only want Blackleaf's racism to be dealt with. Although my outburst was not the best reaction, I don't think I be blamed for it being my first reaction when seeing his post. I also reported the issue. If your going to label me the aggressor you could at take an impartial view and deal with the issue which caused the offense to me to begin with.

Of course the West Lothian Question is controversial. Should England be devolved is an important issue

You had your chance, there was a referendum and the English voted no to having their own devolved Parliment. This is not Scotland's fault that you didn't vote Yes, as Blackleaf is ranting about.

If you want another shot then petition Mr Blair, not the Scots who have absolutely no authority on the issue.

We live in a Union of independent Nations, and because of this each nation should be treated with equal respect.

We're not independent, if we were independent Scotland, Wales and England would not share a parliament.

In any case if you showed preference to a Scottish Prime Minister does that make you racist towards the other nations?

Did you even read what he said? He said Scots shouldn't be allowed to be PMs because they represent Scotland instead of England. Not ONCE did I make any claims that English people should not be allowed to be PM

And btw, I vote for people on policies, not race.

Edited May 13, 2005 by Talon S.

[Commander CMG]

Damn after speed reading this thread, I wish I was involved more as I love a good debate.

[wunarmdscissor]

actually tommy i think you defo owe talon an apology , i wholeheartedly agree with talon in what hes saying.

If you actually read what blackleaf had said in each of his posts you would have realised that the undelying tone of the post is that both the PM should not be a scot and even that we should have NO representitives in Parliament as they are inherently biased. A ridiculous statement to make.

Mind you this isnt the first post youve made on this subject, IN FACT i seem to remeber a similar post you made recently,

Clearly blackleaf's post is inflammatory, however you chose to chastise talon.

I wonder why,,,,,

[Commander CMG]

I don't think the disagreement between you guys is that big a problem, I have been involved in healthier discussions on here.. Tommy, I wish I had the power to close a discussion when people disagree with me???

[Richdog]

Tommy wasn't being racist, he was merely highlighting difference in the way the different countries are treated, highlighting the imbalances.

I hardly call that severe racism, and Talon yes you are going way over the top, lol.

Edited May 14, 2005 by Richdog

[Tommy]

OK for last time let me try to adress this ‘racism’ you feel so insulted by.

Did you even read what he said? He said Scots shouldn't be allowed to be PMs because they represent Scotland instead of England. Not ONCE did I make any claims that English people should not be allowed to be PM

Did I read what he said? YES, but while I think I understood the grasp of it, his point is rather lost on some.

It's worse for us English. England is ruled by Scotland. Tony Blair is Scottish.

Is this the ‘racist’ comment you are referring too? If it is, then Blackleaf never said that a Scotsman should not be PM. In fact it was Wun that insinuated that in the first place.

“One more thing Why the hell should a scot , welshman of a nothern Irishman not be Prime Minister.”

You seem to have put these words into his mouth. Although I’m not a mind reader, what I believe he was saying is that Tony Blair, being born in Edinburgh is a Scot, and since he IS the Prime Minster you could see that in very ambiguous terms Scotland is ruling the UK. Of course if Blackleaf would want to clarify his position over this it would help, but it was still no way a racist comment. The fact that you have chosen to take offence to it is your prerogative.

You had your chance, there was a referendum and the English voted no to having their own devolved Parliment. This is not Scotland's fault that you didn't vote Yes, as Blackleaf is ranting about.

Where did he say it is Scotland’s fault for England not being devolved? Again, you seem to be eager to put words into his mouth in order to accuse him. I’m sure you wouldn’t like words put into yours. I know you have a tendency to take things way out of context, which is what I assume you did on this next quote.

I have decided to quote a larger section of the article Blackleaf posted, to show a clearer picture of what it is saying, and how you seem to have taken it out of context. From THE TIMES

Gordon Brown will almost certainly be the next Labour Prime Minister. He is a Scot of the Scots; he sits in the House of Commons for a Scottish constituency. That is fine, but it means he will be imposing Labour policies on English voters, relying on Scottish votes, in policy areas where he has absolutely no authority to make law for Scotland itself.

For the first time since Lord Bute in the early 1760s the Scottishness of a prime minister might become a real political issue. Why should Mr Brown be free to take decisions for the English health service when he cannot take decisions for the Scottish?

So your argument it that in a country with English, Scots and Welsh. The Scots and Welsh shouldn't be allowed to become PMs..... whoa how racist are you. Thats like going to America and going on about 'THE NEXT PRESIDENT IS GOING TO BE BLACK, WE CAN'T ALLOW THIS"

It is your attitude of reading a quote, spinning it well out of context then throwing in a few insulting unfounded accusations that I have a problem with. I read the article’s quote as most would have done; as a paragraph addressing a constitutional loop-hole it would seem. Of course it would not be able to be solved without radical constitutional reform.

You however read that paragraph, see the word Scot in it and jump to conclusions that somehow the author is being racist or belittling the Scots in some way. You have to read what is written and listen to what is being said, and NOT jump to your own slanderous conclusions about what you THINK the article might be about.

actually tommy i think you defo owe talon an apology , i wholeheartedly agree with talon in what hes saying.

So you wholeheartedly agree that someone is racist if they say the words that you put in their mouth.

I am disappointed that some of the older members who should know better, choose to be so intolerant of others opinions here. Surely this is the perfect place to be talking about influential political issues that will undoubtedly have a barring on our future lives, yet you both feel the need to accuse someone for their opinion on the Constitutional deficit by making slanderous accusations that they are racist.

I find it hypocritical of both of you how you view Blackleaf’s comments as inflammatory, yet you do not see the error in your ways of branding a member racist.

I also reported the issue.

– yes, in which you accused me personally of not dealing with this thread. And now I am. Any further queries regarding this thread can be PM’d to me if you so wish. I am tired of seeing such derogatory comments posted in this public thread.

I thought Blackleaf’s posts could have created a constructive debate on the issues of devolution and the independence of the Nation states. Clearly there are those who would rather hurl insults then discus politics here.

Thread Closed.