Army Objector Calls War "Most Stupid"

[warden]

It is not for any of us to judge him, the Military court will do that. Sorry for the double post, I got a bit trigger happy with the mouse.

617021[/snapback]

Slip of the finger (trigger happy)XSAS

AS i said before ,how the hell must his wifw and famly must be feeling know,especially with **** holes emailing her with their shity comments on some thing they f-ck all about

[brittish_gurl]

I don't really care to be honest with you guys. If he doesn't want war then he doesn't have to be in it any longer. We started this war...... why are we b****ing about it? If anyone loves our country we should stop this war....... and stop killing our fellow Americans. If they do die of honour then they shouldn't even been killed at all. I don't know why you guys are yelling at him.

Why don't you join the army and get shot.....

Instead of complaining on here if you love your country so much...

[Commander CMG]

I don't really care to be honest with you guys. If he doesn't want war then he doesn't have to be in it any longer. We started this war...... why are we b****ing about it? If anyone loves our country we should stop this war....... and stop killing our fellow Americans. If they do die of honour then they shouldn't even been killed at all. I don't know why you guys are yelling at him.

Why don't you join the army and get shot.....

Instead of complaining on here if you love your country so much...

617044[/snapback]

And that comment is directed to?

[brittish_gurl]

I don't really care to be honest with you guys. If he doesn't want war then he doesn't have to be in it any longer. We started this war...... why are we b****ing about it? If anyone loves our country we should stop this war....... and stop killing our fellow Americans. If they do die of honour then they shouldn't even been killed at all. I don't know why you guys are yelling at him.

Why don't you join the army and get shot.....

Instead of complaining on here if you love your country so much...

617044[/snapback]

And that comment is directed to?

617051[/snapback]

It's to kratos...... if you read the post

[warden]

I don't really care to be honest with you guys. If he doesn't want war then he doesn't have to be in it any longer. We started this war...... why are we b****ing about it? If anyone loves our country we should stop this war....... and stop killing our fellow Americans. If they do die of honour then they shouldn't even been killed at all. I don't know why you guys are yelling at him.

Why don't you join the army and get shot.....

Instead of complaining on here if you love your country so much...

617044[/snapback]

And that comment is directed to?

617051[/snapback]

Cant be me ,i had to get shot of my gun when the cops came snifing around myhouse years ago,XSAS looks like he is talking about you

[Commander CMG]

I thought so but it seemed a little harsh on Kratos..

[__Kratos__]

Half-way there british_gurl... all I need to do now is get shot

[PadawanOsswe]

actually he doesnt know if he killed anyone or not, but he sure as hell wanted to kill some Hezbollah b*******, and the similarties between Beirut and Iraq are

-Religious etremeism

-climate/weather conditions

-etc...

----------------

enough similarities for him to talk about the war, and even if he did kill someone it wouldnt have made him like this guy.

615132[/snapback]

I have forgotten more about Terrorism then you and your dad know. How the hell does he not know if he killed anyone or not, was he crying? or did he throw a grenade into a bush and did not know how many were in there when it went off?

What the hell as temperature and climate got to do with anything?

You will make a good Marine stick with them... you don't need an educational background to join.

615151[/snapback]

he doesnt know if he killed anyone because all of his fights were fire fights at night (as far as I know) . and what do you mean by "I have forgotten more about Terrorism then you and your dad know"? forgotten, he sure hasnt forgotten, he witnessed terrorism. and tempurature/climate has to do quite a bit with war, it can be helpfull to a trooper, it can be a troopers worst enemy.

oh and your attempt at insulting The Marine Corps really shows your class

cause I'm not insulting the SAS

Edited May 12, 2005 by PadawanOsswe

[PadawanOsswe]

I asked my dad his opinions, he said

"well,combat effects people differently,but he shouldnt have spoken out against the war,he will do no good there. but I'm not gonna judge him"

either way he denied not a request to go back to Iraq, but an ORDER

and besides the war has changed a lot since the beggining of it and like Krato's said he's an armour crewman 2nd line troop, so things shouldnt be too bad for him if he were to go back.

[__Kratos__]

either way he denied not a request to go back to Iraq, but an ORDER

and besides the war has changed a lot since the beggining of it and like Krato's said he's an armour crewman 2nd  line troop, so things shouldnt be too bad for him if he were to go back.

617861[/snapback]

...They would still be bad, it is a war zone. There is still a lot of good the soldiers are doing over there for the Iraq people, just you never really hear about that. The media craves over ratings, attacks and death seem to be the ratings gold pot. How often do you see ANY good side of what they are doing over there, compared to the horrible stuff?

[PadawanOsswe]

true,you never hear anything good in the news and if you do hear anything good in the news, its a friggin miracle.

[warden]

People dont seem to want to hear good news these days,it is the bad news that makes and sells papers

Cant remember the last time i turned on the news and it started with good news

[Commander CMG]

actually he doesnt know if he killed anyone or not, but he sure as hell wanted to kill some Hezbollah b*******, and the similarties between Beirut and Iraq are

-Religious etremeism

-climate/weather conditions

-etc...

----------------

enough similarities for him to talk about the war, and even if he did kill someone it wouldnt have made him like this guy.

615132[/snapback]

I have forgotten more about Terrorism then you and your dad know. How the hell does he not know if he killed anyone or not, was he crying? or did he throw a grenade into a bush and did not know how many were in there when it went off?

What the hell as temperature and climate got to do with anything?

You will make a good Marine stick with them... you don't need an educational background to join.

615151[/snapback]

he doesnt know if he killed anyone because all of his fights were fire fights at night (as far as I know) . and what do you mean by "I have forgotten more about Terrorism then you and your dad know"? forgotten, he sure hasnt forgotten, he witnessed terrorism. and tempurature/climate has to do quite a bit with war, it can be helpfull to a trooper, it can be a troopers worst enemy.

oh and your attempt at insulting The Marine Corps really shows your class

cause I'm not insulting the SAS

617837[/snapback]

Witnessing Terrorism and understanding it is not the same as for insulting the Marines firstly don't question my class, I am talking about a bunch of basic trained military personel, UK troops have had more killed by the US marines than we have lost in actual combat, the term they use is Friendly fire and how many helicopters have they tried to shoot down during this Iraq conflict how many fighter panes have been shot down by US patriot missiles?

Edited May 12, 2005 by XSAS

[Commander CMG]

I asked my dad his opinions, he said

"well,combat effects people differently,but he shouldnt have spoken out against the war,he will do no good there. but I'm not gonna judge him"

either way he denied not a request to go back to Iraq, but an ORDER

and besides the war has changed a lot since the beggining of it and like Krato's said he's an armour crewman 2nd  line troop, so things shouldnt be too bad for him if he were to go back.

617861[/snapback]

Oh here we go again... "my dad said" so when do we get your opininons... Iraq is a war zone for anyone that goes out there, innocent news reporters are targets so I am sure that things may be a little more hostile for an Armour Crewman 2nd LT, and may I add things are getting worse, suicide bombers from all neighbouring countries are increasing... mind you this may have something to do with the fact border control is worse now than it was under Saddam.

PS... Let me also clarify something, I am not having a go or doubtling your fathers capabilities, he is probably a very patriotic and brave man who I respect for his active service but I hold the same respect for the guy we are talking about in this topic.

Now please let us get back on to the original discussion if you can't comment without asking your Dads advice then don't pass on any comments.

Edited May 12, 2005 by XSAS

[warden]

I asked my dad his opinions, he said

"well,combat effects people differently,but he shouldnt have spoken out against the war,he will do no good there. but I'm not gonna judge him"

either way he denied not a request to go back to Iraq, but an ORDER

and besides the war has changed a lot since the beggining of it and like Krato's said he's an armour crewman 2nd  line troop, so things shouldnt be too bad for him if he were to go back.

617861[/snapback]

Oh here we go again... "my dad said" so when do we get your opininons... Iraq is a war zone for anyone that goes out there, innocent news reporters are targets so I am sure that things may be a little more hostile for an Armour Crewman 2nd LT, and may I add things are getting worse, suicide bombers from all neighbouring countries are increasing... mind you this may have something to do with the fact border control is worse now than it was under Saddam.

PS... Let me also clarify something, I am not having a go or doubtling your fathers capabilities, he is probably a very patriotic and brave man who I respect for his active service but I hold the same respect for the guy we are talking about in this topic.

Now please let us get back on to the original discussion if you can't comment without asking your Dads advice then don't pass on any comments.

617984[/snapback]

What about if he asks his mum

[__Kratos__]

^

I wonder why he didn't "quit" during his first tour... I mean if he felt that way, why did he wait till his 2nd tour? Why did he suck it up during the 1st tour but then ditch the 2nd? That makes no sense.

[SnakeProphet]

^

I wonder why he didn't "quit" during his first tour... I mean if he felt that way, why did he wait till his 2nd tour? Why did he suck it up during the 1st tour but then ditch the 2nd? That makes no sense.

618935[/snapback]

Why don t you ask him?

If you get a reply to an offensive e-mail then this shouldn t be a problem.

[PadawanOsswe]

I have my own opinions,my dad has his own, and I will quote people if I feel like it. not to prove a point, just to add to the disscussion,whats wrong with that?

if he wanted to not go back he should have taken care of that before he was ordered on a second tour.

[Radioactive Man]

Hmm, I thought I would add my two cents.

I know I never seem to add much to posts except quips, and I've been lurking for a long time.

My experience in this matter would be six years of military service, including two tours to Iraq. One that I had to do, and one that I volunteered to do to replace a guy with a sick wife.

I would be ignorant and a liar if I said I wasn't scared both times. Moreso on the second time because I was based near Fallujah.

Being a soldier, marine, airman, or sailor is scary business. However, it's a job based on teamwork. I think that this Sgt. was scared, and that he was selfish. He probably left his squad-mates fairly angry. No one wants to fight in a war, least of all soldiers. They know the cost. The fact of the matter is that it's his job, and if he suceeds in getting out, that sets a precedent that anyone could do what he did, and exit the military.

I didn't necessarily agree with the reasons for being at war, and at the time I came in, there was nothing going on, so it's the last thing that I expected.

I dunno, I guess sometimes you have to do things that you don't want to do. Hmmm sort of lost the point I was going to try to make, this is why I don't post much!

Oh wait...I guess my point is that it's okay to disagree with the war...but I believe that there could have been a better way for him to do it.

Edited May 12, 2005 by hechtal

[TheOriginalF]

You've made some good points hechtal, and I do agree that sometimes you do have to do things you don't want to do. However I think there is a bigger issue at hand. If a man fundamentally disagrees with something does he have a right not to take part? He toured Iraq and saw something that he thought was inherently wrong with what we were doing there and what was being asked of him. Furthermore if he disagrees with our intentions in Iraq he has a responsibility to himself and his peers to take a stand and say no.

I don't believe there is any honor in fighting for something that you don't believe in. Perhaps we should use this situation as an example of a different kind of civic duty, where we as citizens take a stand against things we disagree with and not to always tow the line simply because it's expected of us. It takes a great deal of courage to go to war, but it also takes a great deal of courage to stand up for your convictions.

None of us really know what this guy is thinking, perhaps he was simply a coward...It is a posibility. The point is we just don't know and I for one don't think we have the right to pass judgement.

Just something to think about.

[mrmonsoon]

Update: He was demoted to seaman from petty officer and given something like 3 months hard labor.

[Caesar]

seaman and petty officer isn't a rank in the Army just Navy and coast gaurd

[turbonium]

Mixed up with someone else, I think mrmonsoon. I just read that Sgt. Benderman is being now charged with illegally collecting combat pay. Sounds like a load of BS from what I see - he was given the pay due to Army error and he has already returned most of it and told them to stop sending any more money. Looks like the brass is trying to make an example of him - guess their noses are out of joint because he spoke up on some of the real crap going on that CNN glosses over.daily.

Edited May 13, 2005 by turbonium

[__Kratos__]

How is it the Army's error that he didn't go over to Iraq, to get his combat pay? It sounds completely fair to me. He should have known better to actually go in and fix it before hand. Heck, they should make quite an example out of him. Its not because he spoke against the war, its because he deserted.

[Radioactive Man]

TheOriginalF,

Very good points, and you are correct. It takes a brave person to stand up to your convictions.

I just read that Sgt. Benderman's Captain supposedly ordered his men to fire on Iraq children throwing rocks. It's honestly the first I'd heard of it, and if it was true, you could definitely expect other members of the unit to come forward. That directly violates LOAC (Law of Armed Conflict).

However, Benderman is also being charged with Desertion and Missing a Movement under Articles 85 and 87 of the UCMJ. Pretty serious stuff, that he could have avoided if he had applied for conciensous objector status through the correct routes using established procedures. I think that's the crux of his problem at the moment.

And as a side note, for anyone who finds his website...it seems like it's pretty much his wife running the show, telling the reader certain things...that I don't believe she's qualified to discuss.

I also wanted to point out that this man, after his first tour to Iraq, did not complain, but re-enlisted, on his own free will. He decided to become anti-war when they tried to make him go a second time....