Army Objector Calls War "Most Stupid"

[Commander CMG]

he didnt made a consciencious objector,therefore he is violating his orders that he wouldnt have to follow had he gotten out of the lazy-chair and filed a Con. Obj.!

  the guy didnt file a consiencious objector, otherwise he would have been home free, but he obviouslly didnt whenever he had plenty of time to do so, too bad for him.

Wrong. From this AP story Soldier

Benderman received a letter Wednesday from the Army's Conscientious Objector Review Board denying his objector claim, said Maj. Scot Sikes, Benderman's military defense attorney.

"He's not giving up and he'll keep pressing it until `no' means `no,'" Sikes said Friday. "This guy's no coward. He's a big, strapping soldier from Tennessee who already served in Iraq once and did his duty."

The lack of respect you are showing for someone who has served his country for ten years disgusts me. He has been through more than you ever will while you sit in your "lazy-chair" and pass judgement. You speak like a naive kid who acts bravely while actually having not one clue what it's like to have death all around you and hoping to God you don't die in the next minute. You haven't lived through it. Every war has a sampling of fresh recruits who talk it up thinking they're Rambo Jr., then crumble in tears and incontinence when reality hits at the first sound of enemy fire.

622553[/snapback]

Well said but you are wasting your time, Padowasse seems to have this thing as black and white and hopefully as he grows up and matures he will understand. I bet Sgt. Kevin Benderman is proud to have served his country knowing so the next generation of Padawasse's are being spawned ready to take arms and follow all orders regardless to what effect that has on innocent people.

As much as I have to respect Padowasse's opinion, I don't have to agree with him in fact he is so far from reality it is worrying and of course like many that have posted here, I have seen the aftermath of aggressive combat, Padawasse is a kid with ideals and a Dad that fills his head with crap about war and what the real American hero should be.. if only it was that simple?

Padawasse.. read Fluffys post, he is an Ex US Military Vet most conciencious objectors I read somewhere tend to be Medics... there not cowards in fact if you got to witness what they have to patch up in the field your outlook on life would change immediately.. it was easy for me I got to kill people and any fool can do that but the fluffy's of the world have to patch up the mess and many times while under fire at the same time, I bet fuffy can still smell the charred odour of burning human flesh and taste the death in his mouth everyday, I know I do... for your sake Padawasse, I hope you never get to witness war at a close up and personal level.

Edited May 15, 2005 by XSAS

[PadawanOsswe]

he didnt made a consciencious objector,therefore he is violating his orders that he wouldnt have to follow had he gotten out of the lazy-chair and filed a Con. Obj.!

  the guy didnt file a consiencious objector, otherwise he would have been home free, but he obviouslly didnt whenever he had plenty of time to do so, too bad for him.

Wrong. From this AP story Soldier

Benderman received a letter Wednesday from the Army's Conscientious Objector Review Board denying his objector claim, said Maj. Scot Sikes, Benderman's military defense attorney.

"He's not giving up and he'll keep pressing it until `no' means `no,'" Sikes said Friday. "This guy's no coward. He's a big, strapping soldier from Tennessee who already served in Iraq once and did his duty."

The lack of respect you are showing for someone who has served his country for ten years disgusts me. He has been through more than you ever will while you sit in your "lazy-chair" and pass judgement. You speak like a naive kid who acts bravely while actually having not one clue what it's like to have death all around you and hoping to God you don't die in the next minute. You haven't lived through it. Every war has a sampling of fresh recruits who talk it up thinking they're Rambo Jr., then crumble in tears and incontinence when reality hits at the first sound of enemy fire.

622553[/snapback]

Well said but you are wasting your time, Padowasse seems to have this thing as black and white and hopefully as he grows up and matures he will understand. I bet Sgt. Kevin Benderman is proud to have served his country knowing so the next generation of Padawasse's are being spawned ready to take arms and follow all orders regardless to what effect that has on innocent people.

As much as I have to respect Padowasse's opinion, I don't have to agree with him in fact he is so far from reality it is worrying and of course like many that have posted here, I have seen the aftermath of aggressive combat, Padawasse is a kid with ideals and a Dad that fills his head with crap about war and what the real American hero should be.. if only it was that simple?

Padawasse.. read Fluffys post, he is an Ex US Military Vet most conciencious objectors I read somewhere tend to be Medics... there not cowards in fact if you got to witness what they have to patch up in the field your outlook on life would change immediately.. it was easy for me I got to kill people and any fool can do that but the fluffy's of the world have to patch up the mess and many times while under fire at the same time, I bet fuffy can still smell the charred odour of burning human flesh and taste the death in his mouth everyday, I know I do... for your sake Padawasse, I hope you never get to witness war at a close up and personal level.

622591[/snapback]

first of all, my dad does not fill my head with crap about war,he's been in the s*** too,people have different outlooks upon war, you think he hasnt smelled death. In 1983 when the Hezbollah attacked the U.S. headquarters in Beirut,Lebanon he had to clean up the mess after words and 2 of his friends were blown away.

and I can tell you right now, I will NEVER turn my back on my orders!

[Commander CMG]

he didnt made a consciencious objector,therefore he is violating his orders that he wouldnt have to follow had he gotten out of the lazy-chair and filed a Con. Obj.!

  the guy didnt file a consiencious objector, otherwise he would have been home free, but he obviouslly didnt whenever he had plenty of time to do so, too bad for him.

Wrong. From this AP story Soldier

Benderman received a letter Wednesday from the Army's Conscientious Objector Review Board denying his objector claim, said Maj. Scot Sikes, Benderman's military defense attorney.

"He's not giving up and he'll keep pressing it until `no' means `no,'" Sikes said Friday. "This guy's no coward. He's a big, strapping soldier from Tennessee who already served in Iraq once and did his duty."

The lack of respect you are showing for someone who has served his country for ten years disgusts me. He has been through more than you ever will while you sit in your "lazy-chair" and pass judgement. You speak like a naive kid who acts bravely while actually having not one clue what it's like to have death all around you and hoping to God you don't die in the next minute. You haven't lived through it. Every war has a sampling of fresh recruits who talk it up thinking they're Rambo Jr., then crumble in tears and incontinence when reality hits at the first sound of enemy fire.

622553[/snapback]

Well said but you are wasting your time, Padowasse seems to have this thing as black and white and hopefully as he grows up and matures he will understand. I bet Sgt. Kevin Benderman is proud to have served his country knowing so the next generation of Padawasse's are being spawned ready to take arms and follow all orders regardless to what effect that has on innocent people.

As much as I have to respect Padowasse's opinion, I don't have to agree with him in fact he is so far from reality it is worrying and of course like many that have posted here, I have seen the aftermath of aggressive combat, Padawasse is a kid with ideals and a Dad that fills his head with crap about war and what the real American hero should be.. if only it was that simple?

Padawasse.. read Fluffys post, he is an Ex US Military Vet most conciencious objectors I read somewhere tend to be Medics... there not cowards in fact if you got to witness what they have to patch up in the field your outlook on life would change immediately.. it was easy for me I got to kill people and any fool can do that but the fluffy's of the world have to patch up the mess and many times while under fire at the same time, I bet fuffy can still smell the charred odour of burning human flesh and taste the death in his mouth everyday, I know I do... for your sake Padawasse, I hope you never get to witness war at a close up and personal level.

622591[/snapback]

first of all, my dad does not fill my head with crap about war,he's been in the s*** too,people have different outlooks upon war, you think he hasnt smelled death. In 1983 when the Hezbollah attacked the U.S. headquarters in Beirut,Lebanon he had to clean up the mess after words and 2 of his friends were blown away.

and I can tell you right now, I will NEVER turn my back on my orders!

622949[/snapback]

Padowasse... as much as I would like to reply to you with an honest answer... I know Fluffy who is the mod on this forum would delete it and even worse close the topic and that would spoil it for the rest.

[__Kratos__]

"This guy's no coward. He's a big, strapping soldier from Tennessee who already served in Iraq once and did his duty."

So, because he served once and re-enlisted, he doesn't feel he has to serve again in Iraq because he already did his duty? His duty is never up, with the military till the day his contract says he is a civillian again. Sure, the board denied him, but maybe they had good reason to. I just comes to show that you can try to get out of it, but it doesn't always work. So, instead of taking the news and sucking it up, this guy is now throwing a tissy fit over the fact that he already did his duty (in his head) and doesn't feel he should go back to Iraq. Out of the thousands of men and women over there in Iraq that would rather be home with their family and friends, how many of them do you see refusing orders?

[Richdog]

Padowasse... take a look at Kratos because that's how you're going to be when you get through puberty.

[Commander CMG]

The USA are safe now for the next 20 years between Kratos and Padowasse they have everything sorted.. hardened military personel that will follow all orders... Now I will be serious again, if I had served with either of you, I realkly think I would need the friendly fire rule to get me off?

[Richdog]

Well you know the Americans have never had a problem with friendly fire... in fact I think they have the highest case of it in the world.

[TheOriginalF]

So, because he served once and re-enlisted, he doesn't feel he has to serve again in Iraq because he already did his duty? His duty is never up, with the military till the day his contract says he is a civillian again. Sure, the board denied him, but maybe they had good reason to. I just comes to show that you can try to get out of it, but it doesn't always work. So, instead of taking the news and sucking it up, this guy is now throwing a tissy fit over the fact that he already did his duty (in his head) and doesn't feel he should go back to Iraq. Out of the thousands of men and women over there in Iraq that would rather be home with their family and friends, how many of them do you see refusing orders?

622981[/snapback]

Because he had a moral objection to what he was being asked to do...is somebody protesting what they consider to be an illegal or morally corrupt war throwing a fit? You're still trying to turn this into a black and white issue and not taking into account the personal feeling of the soldier. A man should not be fighting a war he disagrees with, it's not right, so he filed his paper work and he was refused. I see a man who tried to follow due process but in the end he had to do what he thought was right.

If those thousands of men and women who want to be home with their families support our reasons for being in Iraq than they have a responsiblity to go there and fight, if the have a fundamental disagreement with the war than they should be following Sgt Bendermen and refuse to go back. Orders only go so far in the real world and from time to time people need to make a stand if they consider it to be important enough. It all comes down to weather or not somebody has a right or a duty to express themselves when they see or are apart of something that the disagree with.

[__Kratos__]

Because he had a moral objection to what he was being asked to do...is somebody protesting what they consider to be an illegal or morally corrupt war throwing a fit? You're still trying to turn this into a black and white issue and not taking into account the personal feeling of the soldier. A man should not be fighting a war he disagrees with, it's not right, so he filed his paper work and he was refused. I see a man who tried to follow due process but in the end he had to do what he thought was right.

If those thousands of men and women who want to be home with their families support our reasons for being in Iraq than they have a responsiblity to go there and fight, if the have a fundamental disagreement with the war than they should be following Sgt Bendermen and refuse to go back. Orders only go so far in the real world and from time to time people need to make a stand if they consider it to be important enough. It all comes down to weather or not somebody has a right or a duty to express themselves when they see or are apart of something that the disagree with.

So because he feels agaisnt it, that gives him the right to quit? Sure, he has feelings but he also had feelings when he enlisted. He also had feelings after his first tour and then re-enlisted. All those feelings and he turned his back on over 10 years worth of work to say "I quit". Sure, he made a stand, but now he will pay for that stand. Orders in the military are to be followed, not disobeyed. Heck, if everybody decieded they wanted to rethink the orders given to them, where would the military be today? As for him being denied his paper work, well they denied him for their own reasons. He didn't like it so, yes he is throwing a tissy fit. He is the kid in the candy section, that was promised a piece of chocolate by his mother and now his mother is refusing to buy it for him. "BUTTT MMOOOOMMMMMMMYYYYY!!!!!!" and rolls around on the ground looking like a fool, while screaming.

[turbonium]

He didn't like it so, yes he is throwing a tissy fit. He is the kid in the candy section, that was promised a piece of chocolate by his mother and now his mother is refusing to buy it for him. "BUTTT MMOOOOMMMMMMMYYYYY!!!!!!" and rolls around on the ground looking like a fool, while screaming.

Says a puppy who will never know the realities until he gets his ass kicked and grows up...

Heck, if everybody decieded they wanted to rethink the orders given to them, where would the military be today?

Right at home, where they should be, safe and sound with their family and friends!!

[__Kratos__]

Heck, if everybody decieded they wanted to rethink the orders given to them, where would the military be today?

Right at home, where they should be, safe and sound with their family and friends!!

623196[/snapback]

Pretty doubtful. Without a stable military this country would be shot to hell. More then likely we wouldn't have any freedoms or rights.

[shermanvilleillinois]

Speaking as a Vietnam Vet; he took an oath, he served 10 years in the military. When the $#!* hit the fan he backed down.

You don't fight for country, you don't fight for the flag; you fight for your buddies. He let his buddies down.

He made a decision; he was a professional soldier (10 years); he should know he should now take his punishment. He Let His Buddies Down. END OF STORY.

all have a good un.............................

[turbonium]

When the $#!* hit the fan he backed down.

He was stateside when he applied for C.O. status, he didn't leave his buds in combat.

[__Kratos__]

When the $#!* hit the fan he backed down.

He was stateside when he applied for C.O. status, he didn't leave his buds in combat.

623243[/snapback]

So... it is reasonable to desert in the states but not in another country?

[__Kratos__]

Attempting to look for updates in this story, but I found a Q and A site in which Kevin took part in. I found this one pretty interesting. The last question that was asked.

OK: Mark Stevens, a military defense lawyer and retired Marine Corps judge advocate has been quoted repeatedly in our media, with reference to you. He asked, “If he went to Iraq and then comes back and says, ‘I'm now opposed to war,’ the issue is are you opposed to all wars or just this one you don't want to go back to?” said. “He wasn't opposed to war two years ago, why is he opposed to it now?” Now, the same media that energized and continues to reenergize the country for this war—telling nothing of its gross illegality—is being used as a forum to say, “why didn’t you know earlier?”

KB: I can’t tell you about international law violations or anything of that nature, but that man who made that statement about me: he doesn’t know me. You don’t know me either. You don’t know how long I’ve been thinking about a particular subject before I decide to speak out about it. And I think about a lot of things that no one knows what I think about. But this one was important enough for me that I needed to speak out about it to anyone that would listen.

Having watched and observed life from the standpoint of soldier for ten years of my life, I felt there was no higher honor than to serve my country and defend the values that established this country. My family has a history of serving this country dating back to the American Revolution and I felt that to continue on in that tradition was the honorable thing to do.

As I went through the process which led to my decision to refuse deployment to Iraq for the second time, I was torn between thoughts of abandoning the soldiers that I serve with, or following my conscience which tells me: war is the ultimate in destruction and waste of humanity.

Thoughts that we could, and should, consider better ways to solve our differences with other people in the world have crossed my mind on numerous occasions. And this was the driving force that made me refuse deployment to Iraq a second time. Some people may say I am doing so out of fear of combat; I am not going to tell you that the thought of going back to that place isn't scary, but that is not the reason for my decision to not return.

I want people to know that the longer I thought about just how stupid the concept of war really is the stronger I felt about not participating in war. Why do we tell our children to not solve their differences with violence, then turn around and commit the ultimate in violence against people in another country who have nothing to do with the political attitudes of their leaders?

Having read numerous books on the subject of war and having heard all the arguments for war, I have come to the conclusion that there are no valid arguments for the destructive force of war. People are destroyed, nations are destroyed, and yet we continue on with war. The young people that I went with to the combat zone looked at it like it was a video game they played back in their childhood.

When you contemplate the beauty of the world around us and the gifts we have been given you have to ask yourself, " Is this what humanity is meant to do, wage war against one another"? Why can't we teach our children not to hate or to not be afraid of someone else just because they are different from us? Why must it be considered honorable to train young men and women to look through the sights of a high-powered rifle and to kill another human being from 300 meters away?

Consider, if you will, the positive things that could be accomplished without war in our lives; prescription medication that is affordable for seniors; college grants that are available for high schools seniors; I could name a list of reasons not to waste our resources on war. The most important being to let the children of the world learn war no more.

I've received e-mails from people who said that I was a coward for not going to war, but I say to them that I have already been, so I do not have anything to prove to anyone any more. What is there to prove anyway, that I can kill someone I do not even know and has never done anything to me? What is in that concept that anyone could consider honorable?

I first realized that war was the wrong way to handle things in this or any other country when I went to the war zone and saw the damage that it causes. Why must we resort to violence when things do not go our way? Where is the logic of that? I have felt that there are better ways to handle our business than to bomb each other into oblivion. When you are on the water in a boat and you have a chance to see dolphins playing with each other as they go about their business, you realize that if they can live without war then humanity should be able to as well.

Can't we teach our children to leave war behind in history where it belongs? We have come to realize that slavery was an obsolete institution and we realized that human sacrifice was an obsolete institution and we left them behind us. When are we going to have the same enlightened attitude about war?

I look at my stepchildren and realize that war has no place with me in giving them what they need to survive the trials and tribulations of early adulthood. And if you look at all the time soldiers lose in the course of fighting wars such as birthdays and anniversaries, their children going to the senior prom and college graduations, and other things which can never be replaced, then you have to come to the understanding that war steals more from people than just their sense of humanity, it also steals some of that humanity from their family.

I have learned from first hand experience that war is the destroyer of everything that is good in the world, it turns our young into soulless killers and we tell them that they are heroes when they master the "art" of killing. That is a very deranged mindset in my opinion. It destroys the environment, life, and the resources which could be used to create more life advancing endeavors.

War should be left behind us; we should evolve to a higher mindset even if it means going against what most people tell us in this country, such as that we can never stop fighting with other people in the world. I have made the decision to not participate in war any longer and some people in this country cannot comprehend that concept but to me it is simple. I have chosen not to take part in war and it was easy to come to that decision.

I cannot tell anyone else how to live his or her life but I have determined how I want to live mine--by not participating in war any longer, as I feel that it is stupid and also that it is against everything that is good about the world.

Source

Sure, wouldn't it be nice to stop all wars. Have the whole world put down their arms and hug. But, that is not going to happen anytime soon and for surely not without some elbow grease. Yes, we should talk before going to war but what if war comes to us? To we stand by and talk, or do we stand up and fire back? Do we let countries run free without the threat of war?

Sure, he doesn't agree with any war even though he re-enlisted after his first tour in Iraq. Did he think the Army was going to change over-night with the will of his mind?

[Fluffybunny]

Yes, we should talk before going to war but what if war comes to us?

War didn't come to us in Iraq though, we went there. We all know how many wmd's they had there don't we? zero.

We didn't need to go in the first place, but some 1600 dead US soldiers, tens of thousands of dead iraqis, and thousands of permenantly disabled US soldiers we are still there with no end in sight whatsoever. Years later we are no further along and the stability of the region is worse than ever.

The guy has 10 years of service(10 more years than most here) and came to the realization that killing people was wrong and he didn't believe in it. He made his choice and he will have to live with the consequences of his choice. If he is found guilty he will pay the price and jail will only be the start as when he is done there he will be dischonorably discharged which will follow him for the rest of his life. If he is willing to risk so much he must be commited to his beliefs.

[__Kratos__]

Yes, we should talk before going to war but what if war comes to us?

War didn't come to us in Iraq though, we went there. We all know how many wmd's they had there don't we? zero.

We didn't need to go in the first place, but some 1600 dead US soldiers, tens of thousands of dead iraqis, and thousands of permenantly disabled US soldiers we are still there with no end in sight whatsoever. Years later we are no further along and the stability of the region is worse than ever.

The guy has 10 years of service(10 more years than most here) and came to the realization that killing people was wrong and he didn't believe in it. He made his choice and he will have to live with the consequences of his choice. If he is found guilty he will pay the price and jail will only be the start as when he is done there he will be dischonorably discharged which will follow him for the rest of his life. If he is willing to risk so much he must be commited to his beliefs.

623322[/snapback]

Yeah, I know about the false war, but at the time that is what almost everybody believed. You can't undo the past. Heck, since the war is illegal lets just pack up and leave and let Iraq rot.

Maj. Pamela Stephens, chief of administrative law at Fort Stewart, said the ruling does not throw out the charges against Benderman — for which he could face up to seven years in prison, reduction in rank to private and a dishonorable discharge.

Source

Finally, figured out what his punishment would be. 7 years in prison, reduction in rank and a dishonorable discharge... ouch. Those are all going to look pretty on a future job application.

[bathory]

he could always get a job with the democrats

War didn't come to us in Iraq though, we went there. We all know how many wmd's they had there don't we? zero.

thats right, we know that now, but lets deny the reality of the situation 3 years+ ago.

The UN believed he had WMDs, every country out there believed he had them, every intelligence agency believed he had them, even Saddam bluffed that he had them, his constant screwing around with the weapons inspectors (who's initial purpose was to observe the destruction of said WMDs instead of having to play detective, please note this only applies to when the inspectors were allowed in the country)

The only people who didn't believe Saddam had WMDs were the loons who for all intents and purpose hate the US and or Bush, and this was simply because they had to disagree with what Bush and Co said, there was no actual logic behind their denials, and they had a 50% chance of getting it right. Lady luck shined on them:)

Edited May 16, 2005 by bathory

[turbonium]

Heck, since the war is illegal lets just pack up and leave and let Iraq rot. 

That's exactly what should be done!! And Sgt. Benderman is refusing to return to an illegal war.

[__Kratos__]

Heck, since the war is illegal lets just pack up and leave and let Iraq rot. 

That's exactly what should be done!! And Sgt. Benderman is refusing to return to an illegal war.

623330[/snapback]

And I'm the one told that I have no compassion for my fellow man... We just really can't leave Iraq all torn apart to hell. There are millions of innocent people over there.

[SnakeProphet]

Those innocent people don t even want you there.

[bathory]

That's exactly what should be done!! And Sgt. Benderman is refusing to return to an illegal war.

remember guys, its the Neocons who are the thoughtless unethical immoral scum:)

Those innocent people don t even want you there.

you mean an unpopular resistance aimed at killing the iraqi citizenry as much as it is at killing americans? oh yeah the iraqis love them....

The Sunni tolerance of the insurgency will come back to bite them on the butt if it creates a civil war, not a good thing when you make up a rather tiny majority:)

Edited May 16, 2005 by bathory

[SnakeProphet]

Why is their a resistance in the first place.

I wouldn t say the iraqis hate the insurgency, they simply want to be left alone.

[__Kratos__]

^Why wouldn't they hate the insurgents? In the last month the insurgents have killed over 400 civillians. Insurgents are in fact targeting civillians. Sure, some of them want to be left alone, but what about all those that want freedom, rights and a strong goverement? They are not going to get those if we pack up and leave tomarrow. Anyways, lets try to get back on the topic of the deserter.

[SnakeProphet]

^Why wouldn't they hate the insurgents? In the last month the insurgents have killed over 400 civillians. Insurgents are in fact targeting civillians. Sure, some of them want to be left alone, but what about all those that want freedom, rights and a strong goverement? They are not going to get those if we pack up and leave tomarrow. Anyways, lets try to get back on the topic of the deserter.

623349[/snapback]

I actually wanted to comment on this,but i agree,better get back on topic.