Anti-gun protests in London

[TheOriginalF]

What are you rambling on about onep0int? Are you trying to tell us that you don't like liberals? Please elaborate.

And could you try using proper punctuation once in a while it's getting really hard to read your rambling posts.

[jeceris]

liberals lack morality?????!!!

liberals whine and cry????

you lack of understanding for the word liberal, is as great as mine for gun lovers.

[jeceris]

it seems like what you guys do is push and push ...so some 1 snaps and goes ..all you liberals should be killed!!! ...so you can go ...see thats what we're talking about!! ..with that frame of mind you shouldn't be allowed to own a fire arm ...and with me ..you wont get that ....at all ....I don't belive that ...I belive you should open your eyes to the ways of the world ...and stop living in a candy coated vision of our planet where every 1 loves each other and every  1's happy ...it's not like that ....if thats the case communism would have worked in cuba years ago

643752[/snapback]

that's it right there!

i don't live in a candy coated vision of a lovely planet, i STRIVE to achieve a lovely planet.

you've allready thrown in the towel, the worlds crap, knives guns, the whole thing, and so i'm getting my gun, for status quo, and forget about change for the better.

THAT is the whole point!

change for the better.

loving one another is a horrible thing.

[onep0int]

liberals lack morality?????!!!

liberals whine and cry????

you lack of understanding for the word liberal, is as great as mine for gun lovers.

643759[/snapback]

yes liberals lack morality ...a few questions... do you support abortion? ...homosexuality? ....do you think it's ok to burn flags? ....do you think murderous criminals should not be put to death? ...do you think sexual predators should be released back after rehabilitation? ....and the list goes on ...if you agree with these things you have serious moral issues

and yes you understanding of gun lovers lacks greatly ...however what makes a liberal is not hard to see at all and I have a very good understanding of it ...as I do right wingest ...which I am not exactly all for them either ...there's a middle road between the 2 and some where in there is where I'm at

[onep0int]

it seems like what you guys do is push and push ...so some 1 snaps and goes ..all you liberals should be killed!!! ...so you can go ...see thats what we're talking about!! ..with that frame of mind you shouldn't be allowed to own a fire arm ...and with me ..you wont get that ....at all ....I don't belive that ...I belive you should open your eyes to the ways of the world ...and stop living in a candy coated vision of our planet where every 1 loves each other and every  1's happy ...it's not like that ....if thats the case communism would have worked in cuba years ago

643752[/snapback]

that's it right there!

i don't live in a candy coated vision of a lovely planet, i STRIVE to achieve a lovely planet.

you've allready thrown in the towel, the worlds crap, knives guns, the whole thing, and so i'm getting my gun, for status quo, and forget about change for the better.

THAT is the whole point!

change for the better.

loving one another is a horrible thing.

643765[/snapback]

no but you belive guns are the problem lol it's not people are .... you don't see that or try to hide it by making excuses like guns are to blame ....humanity is as a whole is scum ....and that will never change ...get used to it ..I would love to see world peace ...but it will not happen ...no matter how high and mighty we may think we are ...we're still animals

[TheOriginalF]

That's exactly it jeceris, I've seen how ugly this world can be and I would like to try to pass on a more peaceful, and yes, happy world to my children and grand children. I'm simply facing reality and trying my best to change it.

[onep0int]

That's exactly it jeceris, I've seen how ugly this world can be and I would like to try to pass on a more peaceful, and yes, happy world to my children and grand children. I'm simply facing reality and trying my best to change it.

643771[/snapback]

so you think you can change every 1 in the world?

you want to know how it would happen ....have you seen minority report ...if we lived in a society like that ..and I for 1 would rather die ...you want your children and grand children to be safe in this screwed up world ...teach them gun safety and how to protect themselves properly

[jeceris]

liberals lack morality?????!!!

liberals whine and cry????

you lack of understanding for the word liberal, is as great as mine for gun lovers.

643759[/snapback]

yes liberals lack morality ...a few questions... do you support abortion? ...homosexuality? ....do you think it's ok to burn flags? ....do you think murderous criminals should not be put to death? ...do you think sexual predators should be released back after rehabilitation? ....and the list goes on ...if you agree with these things you have serious moral issues

and yes you understanding of gun lovers lacks greatly ...however what makes a liberal is not hard to see at all and I have a very good understanding of it ...as I do right wingest ...which I am not exactly all for them either ...there's a middle road between the 2 and some where in there is where I'm at

643767[/snapback]

wow!

this has pretty much become another topic and maybe another thread should be started, "the evils of liberalism", so i'll just add this and then i'm done.

if you're saying i lack morality because i believe in choice for a woman, to do with her body what she wants, (see that's what freedom is supposed to be about, NOT selective freedom), that a person has the freedom to pursue their own sexual preference, be it home or hetero, that, i may have the freedom to free speech if that involves the burning of a flag to better make my statement, that, killing killers does not even everything out, and that some people with mental illnesses should have the right to be on medication that would change their behaviour, to one that is socially acceptable, if all this makes me morally corrupt, then guilty am i.

you're the worst type of right winger onepoint, the type of right winger that is oblivious to his own existence.

[TheOriginalF]

"no but you belive guns are the problem lol it's not people are"

This is exactly the problem onep0int. Nobody is saying that people aren't to blame, we are arguing that it's beneficial to society to remove dangerous weapons from the hands of the people causing the social problems. No matter how much you want to believe it, a knife will not be as likely to cause the same amount of damage that gun will. Why is it so wrong to try to remove handguns from those unbalanced people in our communities that are causing problems?

As for your definitions of morality; It's not the same for everybody and we all have a different outlook on what is better in the long run for society. Just because you disagree with abortion doesn't necessarily make it immoral.

Regardless we should all try to stay on topic here before the mods come in and close us down.

[onep0int]

liberals lack morality?????!!!

liberals whine and cry????

you lack of understanding for the word liberal, is as great as mine for gun lovers.

643759[/snapback]

yes liberals lack morality ...a few questions... do you support abortion? ...homosexuality? ....do you think it's ok to burn flags? ....do you think murderous criminals should not be put to death? ...do you think sexual predators should be released back after rehabilitation? ....and the list goes on ...if you agree with these things you have serious moral issues

and yes you understanding of gun lovers lacks greatly ...however what makes a liberal is not hard to see at all and I have a very good understanding of it ...as I do right wingest ...which I am not exactly all for them either ...there's a middle road between the 2 and some where in there is where I'm at

643767[/snapback]

wow!

this has pretty much become another topic and maybe another thread should be started, "the evils of liberalism", so i'll just add this and then i'm done.

if you're saying i lack morality because i believe in choice for a woman, to do with her body what she wants, (see that's what freedom is supposed to be about, NOT selective freedom), that a person has the freedom to pursue their own sexual preference, be it home or hetero, that, i may have the freedom to free speech if that involves the burning of a flag to better make my statement, that, killing killers does not even everything out, and that some people with mental illnesses should have the right to be on medication that would change their behaviour, to one that is socially acceptable, if all this makes me morally corrupt, then guilty am i.

you're the worst type of right winger onepoint, the type of right winger that is oblivious to his own existence.

643782[/snapback]

I'm so far from being a right winger but thats neither here nor there ....I won't even get into my political ideals ...or we'll have a bunch of liberals running around saying facist!! lol ...but I do have morals ....and you don't as you so said ...and thats fine ..I just wish you people would open your eyes ..and yes this has already turned into a different thread lol

[onep0int]

"no but you belive guns are the problem lol it's not people are"

This is exactly the problem onep0int. Nobody is saying that people aren't to blame, we are arguing that it's beneficial to society to remove dangerous weapons from the hands of the people causing the social problems. No matter how much you want to believe it, a knife will not be as likely to cause the same amount of damage that gun will. Why is it so wrong to try to remove handguns from those unbalanced people in our communities that are causing problems? 

As for your definitions of morality; It's not the same for everybody and we all have a different outlook on what is better in the long run for society. Just because you disagree with abortion doesn't necessarily make it immoral.

Regardless we should all try to stay on topic here before the mods come in and close us down.

643785[/snapback]

let me ask you a question you get rid of guns ...what does that do for me and the millions of gun owners and legally armed citizens who are responsible and know what they're doing

it's simply not the answer

[TheOriginalF]

so you think you can change every 1 in the world?

you want to know how it would happen ....have you seen minority report ...if we lived in a society like that ..and I for 1 would rather die ...you want your children and grand children to be safe in this screwed up world ...teach them gun safety and how to protect themselves properly

643778[/snapback]

I never said I alone can change the world, but we as an overall community of people certainly can. I'm sorry you have such a dim outlook on humanity but if you don't want to try to change things for the better than I guess that's up to you.

[onep0int]

so you think you can change every 1 in the world?

you want to know how it would happen ....have you seen minority report ...if we lived in a society like that ..and I for 1 would rather die ...you want your children and grand children to be safe in this screwed up world ...teach them gun safety and how to protect themselves properly

643778[/snapback]

I never said I alone can change the world, but we as an overall community of people certainly can. I'm sorry you have such a dim outlook on humanity but if you don't want to try to change things for the better than I guess that's up to you.

643798[/snapback]

is there violent crime in canada? france? germany? russia? UK? austria? spain? denmark? portugal? ect...?

[Celumnaz]

probably going to break the quote feature here... Like I would have quoting the first few pages showing the anti-gun paranoia that is glaringly obvious. Ya'll just hammer hammer hammer... keep it up, something will eventually stick, eventually frustrate the truth... I see we've moved away from statistics... and moved on to "for the children" but instead of pulling those heartstrings, it's now "pro-gun people have no heart, or intelligence". Cry me a bleeding heart leftist river.

So...on one hand...you acklowledge that their are people who should not own guns...and on the other, you say that there should be no control over guns?

No.

Banning them in total, like any blanket legislation, like zero tolerance policies, will not accomplish what you think it will. Control freaks never think about unintended concequences.

Doesn't it instead follow that far greater steps should be taken to ensure that guns stay out of the hands of the very people who you admit "shouldn't have them"?

Maaybe..... it depends where you're going with that. A total ban is as STUPID as zero tolerance has been, as stupid as prohibition was, as stupid as the war on drugs is. Putting in legislation that makes it criminal, for a criminal to carry is wise.

It's just all or nothing with the anti-gun crowd isn't it. Well people, there are *Gray Areas* and the world is not so black and white as ya'll are trying to paint it... please, try to be a little more open minded. Anti-Gunners sound like some kind of leftist religious nut.

Absolutely in denial about the danger guns pose...it's worrying...in fact, when you see a gun being abused, your first reaction is to say that not only was the shooter "scum", but the person he shot was "scum" as well!? Not "why on earth did my country allow that man to own a gun to start with?"

Anectdotal evidence... Wonderful! The man was criminal it seems before he even pulled the trigger. I don't know the situation, but the man was already *breaking the law*. Hello? If a man were to break into your house, sneak up to you sleeping, and shove a knife through your throat... it's the knife's fault? Oh wait! It's the cops fault for not getting to him first! Or the governments fault for letting a man that would do that carry a knife and Break In to your house. And who cares *what* onepoints reaction is, it's *his* reaction nosy rosy thought police. The world isn't full of robots like socialists would like.

This arguement keeps cropping up, and I'm getting fed up of saying it, because it's one of the most ridiculous things I hear from the "I love guns, and you can't take them away from me, even though people are getting shot left right and center" camp...

People are getting shot left right and center??? How in the world are they any of us left!? Amazing! Wow... you'd think everyone would be dead! left right and center they're getting shot... geez... Looks like I should buy a bullet proof vest just to survive here! NOT!

Knives, chains, forks, pencils, pens, bats and "everything else that can be used as a weapon" were not designed for that purpose....a gun was. The above can certainly be improvised into a weapon...but they are nothing like as dangerous as a gun, and a close encounter with one is nowhere near as likely to result in death as one with a gun.

You're right. When I compare my stab wound scars to my friends gunshot wound scars there's a Huge difference. He has about an inch of barely noticable scar, I've got a good 8 inches of some screwed up scar tissue. Knives are often made with the sole purpose of being Lethal. Or, if not lethal, to leave devastating scars. BBC just published an article calling for the ban on Knives. You think it's a ridiculous argument!? I think you better watch out who you're aligning yourself with, because after Guns, it'll be something else next... apparently Knifes are within reach. The talks are starting, in 15 years it just might be illegal to own a kitchen knife. Definately not ridiculous.

Not only that, but it's sooo not anyones business what reasons a law abiding citizen has to want a gun. Have a little faith in humanity! Don't be so paranoid. Don't be so controlling! There's a beautiful world out there to enjoy! I feel safe in it, and I don't even own a gun! I'm not afraid every corner has some violent moron behind it, even though I'm a victim of violent crime. It's just a simple fact, there are sharks in the water, so? I'm going surfing. It's a simple fact there are bad people in the world... that's not paranoia it's a fact. Paranoia would be fearing regular every day people because they want to have a gun.

I still just don't understand you people...you say "oh, the psychos would still be there", and somehow, in your utterly warped reality, that makes it an excuse to make it so horribly easy for them to pick up the most efficient means of killing another human being we have? It's absolute madness....and it's absolutely terrifying that you people can't see that it's madness.

Well good, you admit to the paranoia. It's a first step! Bravo! We have laws in place to keep them from having them. But if it wasn't that, it would be a bucket of gasoline. At least a gun is traceable. A total gun ban, as I've explained and should be self-evident by now with the results of similar policies, and statistics, is STUPID. The most horrifying attacks against me I've experienced did not include a gun at all!

evil to think banning guns altogether would be of benefit.

Yes! If you want to drag our population through what you know from history to have happened to us with banning and zero-tolerance policies. You want to do this to us again!?

hiding behind your 200 yr old constitution is idiotic,

Tossing our constitution out the window is idiotic insanity. You want us to have anarcy or something? yeehaa lawlessness!! How crazy is that!?

it was put there in case the british invaded, well they didn't and aren't going to, so you don't need it.

No, but I'm not going to educate you as I think you've already made up your closed mind on that one and this post is looking to be looooooong already.

i saw some footage the other night of some guy in detroit, i think, holed up inside a house with a few guns screaming at the police, "it's my constitutional right to bear weapons" yeah, the guy had allready shot some other poor schlub and was now ready to shoot it up with the police, and he thought he was in the RIGHT because of your constitution.

And? There aren't morons in any group of people? So you think every Islamic in the world is a terrorist do ya?

you americans seem to live in fear.

I think I've demonstrated the fallicy and intellectual dishonesty of that statement. If not, there's like 5 pages at the beginning of this thread that demonstrate just the opposite. Yelling "Wake up!" seems to make people shove their heads deeper in the sand.

fear keeps you believing that everyone should have the right to bear arms.

Is it fear of rain that makes me bring an umbrella or is it preparedness?

fear makes you believe the invasion of other countries is necessary.

History has show that when we act insular, and don't do anything, that problems get bigger and bigger until they're not only difficult to deal with, but dangerous. Invasion isn't *always* necessary, but it is an option if things can't be handled diplomatically and no other nation has the cajones to step up and do what's right. You say that like we "go it alone" constantly... hey, somebody else seemed to think it was a good idea too if I'm not mistaken. And I'm not.

fear makes you think there is somebody around the corner with a 12" bowie knife.

well, stop letting your media and politicians scare you.

Huh? Leave Bowie out of this, he was a great American folk hero and is currently dead. The fear the media spreads, is to the mushy minded leftists... talk about an easy group of people to scare, that'd be them. I have no problems going outside. Where do you get these crazy ideas from!? Oh yeah... the media thing you were trying to pin on the pro-gun crowd. haha, it's the other way around, the paranoia is thick on the left.

you're thoughts and beliefs , for the most part, are 200 yrs behind the rest of us.

There's that eletist mentality! woohoo! How enlightened. Quite possibly we've lept ahead of you guys in culture by 200 years, like some other aspects of life and commerce. Ewww, spewing eletist rhetoric tastes bad in my mouth. Two wrongs don't make a right, so I take that back.

guns should be banned, only carried by law enforcement officers and military personnel.

Like Steven Rios or the numerous others like him? In Any group of people you have a few bad apples. The gun problem we have stems mostly in that 13% of the population, you guys just don't make any sense. How is a cop going to stop my wife from getting raped in her home???

and IF you then put in current laws, that gave harsh penalties to people even carrying a weapon, i mean 10 yrs at least, the people you're afraid of would not be around the corner, they'd be in jail, well, 3/4 of your country would be in jail.

and if it came down to it, i'd rather bump into someone with a knife, than a gun, i might stand a bit of a chance then.

Well that's another discussion totally on our justice system. I for one, having been in the situations described, would rather nobody pull anything on me, gun, knife, blow torch... the problem would be the criminal around the corner Much more than his choice of weapon.

Ok, I'm not done, but it's lunch time. There's lots of incorrect thought following these 2 posts but that's all I could do in 10 min and I'm hungry.

Peace and hugs to all.

EDIT: Fixed the syntax of the quotes...

Edited May 27, 2005 by Celumnaz

[onep0int]

probably going to break the quote feature here... Like I would have quoting the first few pages showing the anti-gun paranoia that is glaringly obvious. Ya'll just hammer hammer hammer... keep it up, something will eventually stick, eventually frustrate the truth... I see we've moved away from statistics... and moved on to "for the children" but instead of pulling those heartstrings, it's now "pro-gun people have no heart, or intelligence". Cry me a bleeding heart leftist river.

So...on one hand...you acklowledge that their are people who should not own guns...and on the other, you say that there should be no control over guns?

No.

Banning them in total, like any blanket legislation, like zero tolerance policies, will not accomplish what you think it will. Control freaks never think about unintended concequences.

Doesn't it instead follow that far greater steps should be taken to ensure that guns stay out of the hands of the very people who you admit "shouldn't have them"?

Maaybe..... it depends where you're going with that. A total ban is as STUPID as zero tolerance has been, as stupid as prohibition was, as stupid as the war on drugs is. Putting in legislation that makes it criminal, for a criminal to carry is wise.

It's just all or nothing with the anti-gun crowd isn't it. Well people, there are *Gray Areas* and the world is not so black and white as ya'll are trying to paint it... please, try to be a little more open minded. Anti-Gunners sound like some kind of leftist religious nut.

Absolutely in denial about the danger guns pose...it's worrying...in fact, when you see a gun being abused, your first reaction is to say that not only was the shooter "scum", but the person he shot was "scum" as well!? Not "why on earth did my country allow that man to own a gun to start with?"

Anectdotal evidence... Wonderful! The man was criminal it seems before he even pulled the trigger. I don't know the situation, but the man was already *breaking the law*. Hello? If a man were to break into your house, sneak up to you sleeping, and shove a knife through your throat... it's the knife's fault? Oh wait! It's the cops fault for not getting to him first! Or the governments fault for letting a man that would do that carry a knife and Break In to your house. And who cares *what* onepoints reaction is, it's *his* reaction nosy rosy thought police. The world isn't full of robots like socialists would like.

This arguement keeps cropping up, and I'm getting fed up of saying it, because it's one of the most ridiculous things I hear from the "I love guns, and you can't take them away from me, even though people are getting shot left right and center" camp...

People are getting shot left right and center??? How in the world are they any of us left!? Amazing! Wow... you'd think everyone would be dead! left right and center they're getting shot... geez... Looks like I should buy a bullet proof vest just to survive here! NOT!

Knives, chains, forks, pencils, pens, bats and "everything else that can be used as a weapon" were not designed for that purpose....a gun was. The above can certainly be improvised into a weapon...but they are nothing like as dangerous as a gun, and a close encounter with one is nowhere near as likely to result in death as one with a gun.

You're right. When I compare my stab wound scars to my friends gunshot wound scars there's a Huge difference. He has about an inch of barely noticable scar, I've got a good 8 inches of some screwed up scar tissue. Knives are often made with the sole purpose of being Lethal. Or, if not lethal, to leave devastating scars. BBC just published an article calling for the ban on Knives. You think it's a ridiculous argument!? I think you better watch out who you're aligning yourself with, because after Guns, it'll be something else next... apparently Knifes are within reach. The talks are starting, in 15 years it just might be illegal to own a kitchen knife. Definately not ridiculous.

Not only that, but it's sooo not anyones business what reasons a law abiding citizen has to want a gun. Have a little faith in humanity! Don't be so paranoid. Don't be so controlling! There's a beautiful world out there to enjoy! I feel safe in it, and I don't even own a gun! I'm not afraid every corner has some violent moron behind it, even though I'm a victim of violent crime. It's just a simple fact, there are sharks in the water, so? I'm going surfing. It's a simple fact there are bad people in the world... that's not paranoia it's a fact. Paranoia would be fearing regular every day people because they want to have a gun.

I still just don't understand you people...you say "oh, the psychos would still be there", and somehow, in your utterly warped reality, that makes it an excuse to make it so horribly easy for them to pick up the most efficient means of killing another human being we have? It's absolute madness....and it's absolutely terrifying that you people can't see that it's madness.

Well good, you admit to the paranoia. It's a first step! Bravo! We have laws in place to keep them from having them. But if it wasn't that, it would be a bucket of gasoline. At least a gun is traceable. A total gun ban, as I've explained and should be self-evident by now with the results of similar policies, and statistics, is STUPID. The most horrifying attacks against me I've experienced did not include a gun at all!

evil to think banning guns altogether would be of benefit.

Yes! If you want to drag our population through what you know from history to have happened to us with banning and zero-tolerance policies. You want to do this to us again!?

hiding behind your 200 yr old constitution is idiotic,

Tossing our constitution out the window is idiotic insanity. You want us to have anarcy or something? yeehaa lawlessness!! How crazy is that!?

it was put there in case the british invaded, well they didn't and aren't going to, so you don't need it.

No, but I'm not going to educate you as I think you've already made up your closed mind on that one and this post is looking to be looooooong already.

i saw some footage the other night of some guy in detroit, i think, holed up inside a house with a few guns screaming at the police, "it's my constitutional right to bear weapons" yeah, the guy had allready shot some other poor schlub and was now ready to shoot it up with the police, and he thought he was in the RIGHT because of your constitution.

And? There aren't morons in any group of people? So you think every Islamic in the world is a terrorist do ya?

you americans seem to live in fear.[/quote

I think I've demonstrated the fallicy and intellectual dishonesty of that statement. If not, there's like 5 pages at the beginning of this thread that demonstrate just the opposite. Yelling "Wake up!" seems to make people shove their heads deeper in the sand.

fear keeps you believing that everyone should have the right to bear arms.

Is it fear of rain that makes me bring an umbrella or is it preparedness?

fear makes you believe the invasion of other countries is necessary.

History has show that when we act insular, and don't do anything, that problems get bigger and bigger until they're not only difficult to deal with, but dangerous. Invasion isn't *always* necessary, but it is an option if things can't be handled diplomatically and no other nation has the cajones to step up and do what's right. You say that like we "go it alone" constantly... hey, somebody else seemed to think it was a good idea too if I'm not mistaken. And I'm not.

fear makes you think there is somebody around the corner with a 12" bowie knife.

well, stop letting your media and politicians scare you.

Huh? Leave Bowie out of this, he was a great American folk hero and is currently dead. The fear the media spreads, is to the mushy minded leftists... talk about an easy group of people to scare, that'd be them. I have no problems going outside. Where do you get these crazy ideas from!? Oh yeah... the media thing you were trying to pin on the pro-gun crowd. haha, it's the other way around, the paranoia is thick on the left.

you're thoughts and beliefs , for the most part, are 200 yrs behind the rest of us.

There's that eletist mentality! woohoo! How enlightened. Quite possibly we've lept ahead of you guys in culture by 200 years, like some other aspects of life and commerce. Ewww, spewing eletist rhetoric tastes bad in my mouth. Two wrongs don't make a right, so I take that back.

guns should be banned, only carried by law enforcement officers and military personnel.

Like Steven Rios or the numerous others like him? In Any group of people you have a few bad apples. The gun problem we have stems mostly in that 13% of the population, you guys just don't make any sense. How is a cop going to stop my wife from getting raped in her home???

and IF you then put in current laws, that gave harsh penalties to people even carrying a weapon, i mean 10 yrs at least, the people you're afraid of would not be around the corner, they'd be in jail, well, 3/4 of your country would be in jail.

and if it came down to it, i'd rather bump into someone with a knife, than a gun, i might stand a bit of a chance then.

Well that's another discussion totally on our justice system. I for one, having been in the situations described, would rather nobody pull anything on me, gun, knife, blow torch... the problem would be the criminal around the corner Much more than his choice of weapon.

Ok, I'm not done, but it's lunch time. There's lots of incorrect thought following these 2 posts but that's all I could do in 10 min and I'm hungry.

Peace and hugs to all.

643888[/snapback]

I like this guy

[Celumnaz]

Ok, still not done, tons of stuff to sort through, but I need to finish eating and might not even be able to get back to it today... who knows. I have to work at some point!

and i know i cannot change your mind, i think it's only amercians that see the word, or label, liberal as an evil one.

Because they've been lying to us for decades and it's wide open. They've had 40 years of control and only brought more misery. The poor are still poor, the homeless are still homeless, the family unit is falling apart, minorities trample the rights of the majority, our independance is subject to international opinion... on and on I'm *almost* to the opinion they are actively out to destroy anything that ever made this country successful through internal sabotage. War on poverty, Kyoto... Everyone says America will probably implode rather than be overcome from external forces, and they're the ones accomplishing that.

yeah, it must be bad to look at the whole argurment, to try to understand all sides of the picture, instead of having your one sided, narrow minded, bias, to all things that seem to make the world a nastier place to live in.

Are you trying to make my argument for me?

because all the right wing nuts like yourself would be walking the streets shooting into the air telling the government, it has no right to take away your "precious".

stereotype much? With this outlook, is it any wonder why we dismiss anti-gun arguments out of turn at times?

that government can't tell you what to do, but it can go into other countries and tell them what to do.

Has nothing to do with this issue. Moral equivalence, bah. My son likes spiderman. Yeah, has nothing to do with anything either, just thought I'd throw it out there since we're spewing pointless tripe.

you right wing knobs, use the government when it suits your needs, when it goes your way. you live in the past, and have no sense of the word trust.

Knobs? Again, just replace the word right with left and again you're making my argument for me.

you believe freedom lies in the barrells of guns and the prisons of religion, you're even afraid of the metric system for god's sakes.

Umm... you made my argument for me, see your own quote again:

yeah, it must be bad to look at the whole argurment, to try to understand all sides of the picture, instead of having your one sided, narrow minded, bias, to all things that seem to make the world a nastier place to live in.

onepoint, go down to your local ammo dealer, load up, and wait for the anarchy, it's what you want.

Looks like someone needs some more psychic training? Getting rusty on reading minds there...

So now that your pro gun argument is beginning to crumble you attack the liberals and call them all whinny little girls? You than proceed to assume that anybody who is anti gun would just run scared when threatened with a knife. I've run across people like that before and I've simply disarmed them, and guess what, no blood, no death.

No, but all the arguments and facts and reasoning falls on deaf ears. There's pages and pages of it, but it's just ignored as usual. I do believe the term antigun nut was used before anything else was uttered. Glad you're a badass that can fight. I'm not.

you lack of understanding for the word liberal, is as great as mine for gun lovers.

No, it's clarity on my part. Glad you realize you don't understand gun "lovers".

you've allready thrown in the towel, the worlds crap, knives guns, the whole thing, and so i'm getting my gun, for status quo, and forget about change for the better.

Again, you've got it flip-flopped. Your side are the one's that have given up faith in humanity, that anyone who wants to own a gun is some kind of nut out to shoot up schools and deny there's a social problem and that guns were not a problem 30 years ago.

change for the better.

loving one another is a horrible thing.

Just because you think it's better, doesn't make it so, and history has shown the opposite in regards to prohibition. I hope your loving comment was sarcasm, I honestly don't know comming from the left as pessimistic and paranoid as they are. But I have hope!

Peace and hugs to all!

[jeceris]

celumnaz, what a load of bunk.

your analogies are ridiculous, comparing carrying a gun to carrying an umbrella!!

you really don't see a difference, then I DO understand gun lovers.

and my comment about your constitution, here's what you try, an AMENDMENT, look it up cel, it's what all countries do throughout their history, the only time you make an amendment, is when it favours some lobbyist, and gets they bucks in for a few and screws the majority of you.

live your ignorant bliss, see those that question greed and murder as liberals, sorry, apparently i am an immoral person because i believe in freedom of choice, i notice he didn't respond to any of that.

keep using others quotes in poorly founded analogies, cel, it looks good on ya.

[onep0int]

Just because you think it's better, doesn't make it so, and history has shown the opposite in regards to prohibition. I hope your loving comment was sarcasm, I honestly don't know comming from the left as pessimistic and paranoid as they are. But I have hope!

Peace and hugs to all!

643967[/snapback]

exactly ..for example I'm not trying to say the whole world should arm themselves ....if you don't want to carry a fire arm by all means thats on you ....I wouldn't force you to carry 1 ...so why would you force me not to? or force the government to force me not to?

[jeceris]

Just because you think it's better, doesn't make it so, and history has shown the opposite in regards to prohibition. I hope your loving comment was sarcasm, I honestly don't know comming from the left as pessimistic and paranoid as they are. But I have hope!

Peace and hugs to all!

643967[/snapback]

exactly ..for example I'm not trying to say the whole world should arm themselves ....if you don't want to carry a fire arm by all means thats on you ....I wouldn't force you to carry 1 ...so why would you force me not to? or force the government to force me not to?

643993[/snapback]

i can't and never will, in my life time.

but who are you to call me immoral because of my beliefs.

i don't think of you as immoral; because you want to carry a gun.

celumnaz is busy re quoting everything

[Celumnaz]

celumnaz, what a load of bunk.

Bravo! Your debate team must be proud of you!

(note: all this I'm saying is in the context of this thread. In any other situation I would give you the shirt off my back, so it's not as personal as it sounds)

your analogies are ridiculous, comparing carrying a gun to carrying an umbrella!!

I'm comparing ideas, not objects, but I should have expected the lack of comprehension coming from that side.

and my comment about your constitution, here's what you try, an AMENDMENT,

Well why didn't you SAY that!? I'm all for this debate in legislature! Lets do it and see what happens!

Oh wait... it'll never see the light of day, so it'll have to be done in the COURTS.

look it up cel, it's what all countries do throughout their history, the only time you make an amendment, is when it favours some lobbyist, and gets they bucks in for a few and screws the majority of you.

If you believe that, then there's nothing I can do for you. I hear sand in the hair gets itchy, does it?

live your ignorant bliss,

It's like you're speaking for me sometimes...

see those that question greed and murder as liberals,

Well if that's all they did we'd be getting along great! But they don't own the licence to being opposed to oppression and murder.

sorry, apparently i am an immoral person because i believe in freedom of choice, i notice he didn't respond to any of that.

Because it wasn't my argument, but I could address it if you like... I'm sure you wouldn't... in another thread. But that is not the sole arena of liberalism either, I believe in freedom of choice, how's them apples? I very much supported my sisters abortion.

keep using others quotes in poorly founded analogies, cel, it looks good on ya.

Thanks! Ok.

I have to, because some people will take arguments all over the place and out of context. I have to quote because leftists tend to forget what they just said.

[onep0int]

Just because you think it's better, doesn't make it so, and history has shown the opposite in regards to prohibition. I hope your loving comment was sarcasm, I honestly don't know comming from the left as pessimistic and paranoid as they are. But I have hope!

Peace and hugs to all!

643967[/snapback]

exactly ..for example I'm not trying to say the whole world should arm themselves ....if you don't want to carry a fire arm by all means thats on you ....I wouldn't force you to carry 1 ...so why would you force me not to? or force the government to force me not to?

643993[/snapback]

i can't and never will, in my life time.

but who are you to call me immoral because of my beliefs.

i don't think of you as immoral; because you want to carry a gun.

celumnaz is busy re quoting everything

643999[/snapback]

and I dont think of you as immoral for not wanting to carry a gun

I do think of you as immoral for thinking homosexuality is ok ...2 women or 2 men cannot produce a child it's against the laws of nature

abortion you're killing a child that hasn't even had the chance to see the outside world for him or her self thats immoral (I only belive in abortion is extreme cases as if the mother would die giving birth ...or a rape victim)

I belive in patriotism even if you don't agree with all aspects of the government ...burning the flag of the country in which you're so comfertably living in is immoral

a murderour living off of our taxes a rapist a child rapist living off our taxes is wrong ...those are cancerous individuals of society that do not belong in a better world ...to keep them alive and take care them while supporting the death of a child is immoral

another question what do you think of embryonic stem cell research?

I for 1 belive creating a life simply to take it ..is immoral

[Celumnaz]

celumnaz is busy re quoting everything

lol

God, I just want to shake hands and call it a day, but this debate just goes on and on as long as they try to impose *their* morality on the whole of the population. It's a matter of choice. If people choose to some day destroy them all... Great!

[onep0int]

I say we can all live happy ....my problem is I don't impose my belief's onto them I build opinions of them yes (such as liberals lacking in morality) but I don't force them to take onto my beliefs ...they on the other hand ..do

Edited May 27, 2005 by onep0int

[TheOriginalF]

Well that's fine onep0int, if you feel all of that is immoral that that's your prerogative. However keep in mind that it's your opinion based on the ideology that you have chosen to follow. If you want to discuss the moralities of these issues please start another thread.

But I think this really sums up the problem we all have. We are all looking at the world from vastly different mindsets and discussions like this will continue to spin in circles for eternity. We all want society to be a safer a place in the long run I don't think anybody here is denying that. What we aren't coming to terms on is how to fix the problems that are present in our society. We on the anti gun side believe that if you don't allow people to use guns you will reduce the number of deaths at the hands of those who are unbalanced or unstable. What I don't see is anybody on the pro gun side offering up any solutions to fixing the violent problems inherent in our culture. I don't believe that you will ever be able to eradicate everybody who may resort to violence in our society, we can however make an attempt to reduce the amount deaths caused at the hands of these people.

Atleast we are making an attempt to try to fix the anti social problems in our society before anybody else is needlessly hurt by a gun.

[jeceris]

celumnaz is busy re quoting everything

lol

God, I just want to shake hands and call it a day, but this debate just goes on and on as long as they try to impose *their* morality on the whole of the population. It's a matter of choice. If people choose to some day destroy them all... Great!

644010[/snapback]

fair enough cel. i got a little passionate and carried away and took the "no morals" call a little personally.

i'm calling it a day with this thread, tho.