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BobaFett

Prove why Christianinty is the TRUE religion

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MrScienceGuy

You cant prove Christianity is true with the Bible either. That's not what someone would call a proof. In fact, if Christianity could be proven in any way, it would have been proven by now and we wouldnt have this debate. The only reason this topic exists is to show that Christians are helpless when it comes to proving their faith to skeptics. Nothing they say will hold water in terms of proving the religion. Skeptics see bible as false so why even bother quoting from it? It's like me trying to prove Santa is real by quoting from children's book. In other word, Christians have nothing, NOTHING, to PROVE their religion is true to those who refuse to take their word for it. Christians would be wise to stay away from this topic and accept this simple fact.

How do you know it is wrong to murder someone?

You dont, unless you have been taught that it is. Murder is a learned concept in of itself.

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BobaFett

ignore this post-I made a quoting error-please skip to the next message

Edited by BobaFett

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BobaFett
I give this challenge to everyone who reads this post- prove to me Christianity is the 1 true religion WITHOUT using the bible as a reference.  Or if you don't think Christianity is the true religion, explain your reasonswhy not.  LET THE SPIRITUAL AND THE SKEPTIC CLASH!

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Only God can prove that to you.

I will tell you this, God proved it to me.

I was an agnostic physics major in College and did a scientific experiment to test for the existence of God. I decided the scientific method of experimentation is what determines real truth.

I would look up at the ceiling and say something like this: God, if you really do exist, give me evidence so that I will know and not just believe.

I did this maybe every couple of weeks or so for a few months.

Experimental Control: I had the belief that if God really did exist, then He would care about me and He did not want me to go to hell, so He would give me this evidence if He really existed.

Well the evidence came.

It was pointed out to me by a ufo researcher that ufo aliens and their craft are like the flying objects in the bible, and like angels; so I had proof that angels could be true. The field of parapsychology was investigating the human aura energy and people that claimed to heal by the laying on of hands. An energy exchange from the healers to the patients could be filmed using kirlian photography; so I had evidence that Jesus could really do the healing miracles He was supposed to do.

I started seeing these little colored points of light in the air; they were like little visions. I had read in a psychic book that certain clairvoyants can see glimpses into the spirit world; they looked like little colored lights. It was like a little vision of a light would appear, I would hear some kind of evil thought in my mind (like a threat, or insult, are something embarrasing) then the light would disappear. I realized that these are not my thoughts. I decided that what I was seeing was devils appearing, telepathically saying some evil thought to me, and then disappearing. It is as if devils were trying to stop me from becoming a Christian. So now I had evidence that devils exist too.

[Note: If you ever do really try to become a real Christian, then you will notice devils or evil forces trying to stop you from becoming a Christian. When the devil still has you under his control, you will be blind to him. It is when you start to break free from the devils, and become a real Christian that your spiritual eyes open, and devils become noticed by you.]

Then, I was asleep and had what was called in the bible a night vision. Jesus appeared to me and paraphrased something that is in the New Testament saying it to me as it applied to me. It was like He was really there; it was not like a dream.

So now I had evidence that Christianity is the only true religion, like the New Testament says that it is, and the New Testament of the bible is really the inspired Word of God like it claims to be. Later found out that the true unaltered bible is the King James version. So, the way to heaven is the KJV New Testament.

Like the apostle Paul, I can say that I have seen Jesus and that He really is the Jewish Messiah, the anointed Son of the living God.

I became a fundamentalist Christian (believing in the fundamentals of the Christian faith) and have been one ever since.

This happened to me around 1974- 75.

God proved it to me. If you want Him to prove it to you, then I suggest you do the experiment that I did, using the experimental control that I did.

629207[/snapback]

You know, I bet if I did a little research, I could probbaly find an almost exact report of some Hindu seing very simular things thus proving to them "Hinduism" was the one true religion. Hallucenations? Dream? They don't seem like very reliable. If I wanted to get laid by Angelina Jolie enough, and stared at the cieling EVERY NIGHT thinking about her, and went to bed thinking about her; I probally would have an experience VERY SIMULAR to yours, only replace Jesus with Angelina, and the parafrasing of the bible with her stripping.

I know my example might seem a little vulgar, but it was the best i could come up with quickly. If I thought about Buddha hard enough, chances are the samething would happen with him. (not the stripping-just the proving one religion is true) Plus, you used the bible as a reference a few times in your acount, thus disqualifying yourself.(remember-no bible as a refernce of ANY KIND)

just to make the piont out to people before they start calling me an aethiest or a satanist, I started this topic not to prove that there is no God, but to prove its impossible to prove any religion the right one (espeacially Christianity). Just by saying "because God loves me" or "Jesus told me" doesn't justify your points. I think that some people are so blinded by their faith that they won't even consider that another religion might be true; and several of the responces so far help reinforce my theory.

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Amalgamut
You cant prove Christianity is true with the Bible either. That's not what someone would call a proof. In fact, if Christianity could be proven in any way, it would have been proven by now and we wouldnt have this debate. The only reason this topic exists is to show that Christians are helpless when it comes to proving their faith to skeptics. Nothing they say will hold water in terms of proving the religion. Skeptics see bible as false so why even bother quoting from it? It's like me trying to prove Santa is real by quoting from children's book. In other word, Christians have nothing, NOTHING, to PROVE their religion is true to those who refuse to take their word for it. Christians would be wise to stay away from this topic and accept this simple fact.

629427[/snapback]

Then why even make this thread? It should probably be closed considering "Proving Christianity" is basically impossible.

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Jodie.Lynne
Like the apostle Paul, I can say that I have seen Jesus and that He really is the Jewish Messiah, the anointed Son of the living God.

I became a fundamentalist Christian (believing in the fundamentals of the Christian faith) and have been one ever since.

IF this statement is indeed, a true 'vision', then you are practicing the wrong religion, no?

If Jesus is the JEWISH messiah, then you need to

a - see a moile;

b - have a bar (or bats) mitzvah

and

c - shout Mazeltov!

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Amalgamut

Mazeltov!

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BobaFett
You cant prove Christianity is true with the Bible either. That's not what someone would call a proof. In fact, if Christianity could be proven in any way, it would have been proven by now and we wouldnt have this debate. The only reason this topic exists is to show that Christians are helpless when it comes to proving their faith to skeptics. Nothing they say will hold water in terms of proving the religion. Skeptics see bible as false so why even bother quoting from it? It's like me trying to prove Santa is real by quoting from children's book. In other word, Christians have nothing, NOTHING, to PROVE their religion is true to those who refuse to take their word for it. Christians would be wise to stay away from this topic and accept this simple fact.

629427[/snapback]

Then why even make this thread? It should probably be closed considering "Proving Christianity" is basically impossible.

629591[/snapback]

but yet people keep trying anyways.

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Amalgamut
but yet people keep trying anyways.

629637[/snapback]

I had only intended to post one time in this thread, untill someone said how they think Christians kill people.

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Jodie.Lynne

Correction: People Kill People.

It is the many and myriad REASONS why people kill people that is at the heart of the issue.

To single any one religion, group, nation, or ethnic tribe as "killers", is an inflamatory attitude. All religions, groups, nations, and ethnic tribes have at one time or another have engaged in homocide - either singly, or in mass numbers. What we should be dealing with and concerned about, is how to STOP it, not place the blame for it.

>End of Rant, thank you listening, carry on blaming each other<

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Amalgamut
Correction:  People Kill People.

It is the many and myriad REASONS why people kill people that is at the heart of the issue.

To single any one religion, group, nation, or ethnic tribe as "killers", is an inflamatory attitude.  All religions, groups, nations, and ethnic tribes have at one time or another have engaged in homocide - either singly, or in mass numbers.  What we should be dealing with and concerned about, is how to STOP it, not place the blame for it.

>End of Rant, thank you listening, carry on blaming each other<

629673[/snapback]

I couldn't agree with you anymore.

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Stellar
Yes, but another 33% of the people would be Christian, if Islam did not come to be.

And 100% would be atheist if religion didnt come to be. Whats your point?

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Unorthodox Thesis

You cannot prove that christianity is a true religion. You have to believe it if you want it to become a reality. You will not accomplish anything by attempting to prove it. Even though, I believe its true. ('Christian' is taken from the greek "little christ" or christ like followers) Christianity comes with a promise. If you join the Holy Confederation, you will inherit immortal life. The more sincere you are about it, the more God will help you experience it.

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Amalgamut
Yes, but another 33% of the people would be Christian, if Islam did not come to be.

And 100% would be atheist if religion didnt come to be. Whats your point?

629711[/snapback]

My point is exactly what I said.

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Stellar
My point is exactly what I said.

And what does it have to do with?

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Amalgamut
My point is exactly what I said.

And what does it have to do with?

629733[/snapback]

Why don't you go back and read the post and see what it was talking about.

If you are to ask anyone the question you just asked me, it would be the post I was referring to. rolleyes.gif

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DarkSinister
And I never heard any rebuttal to Stellar's examples that Jehovah god did (on many occasions) direct his followers to slaughter non-believers, down to the women, children and livestock.

629029[/snapback]

First of all, these people weren't just "non-believers" there is more to it than that. God doesn't doesn't just go out and kill "non-believers." However, even with me answering these (which I will) won't prove a damn thing.

629136[/snapback]

I'm waiting on that too. thumbsup.gif

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Amalgamut
It does say to kill and destroy other religions. Theres even a part in which god kills nonbelievers.

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First off, you make it sound like "they were just non-believers."

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.  Such evil must be purged from Israel.  (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

This is talking about "Law Courts." If anyone is judged in a court of law and shows disgust to the judge or the priets of the Lord must be put to death to purge the evil from Israel. So, first of all, this person probably wasn't "innocent" to begin with to get in the court in the first place. So, if someone goes to court and disrespects the Judges or the priets of God they will be put to death. Well, thats their own fault really. You reap what you sow.

You should not let a sorceress live.  (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Hmmm...seems as if you didn't put down the right scripture...

"If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps with her, he must par the bride-price, and she shall be his wife. If her father absolutly refuses to give her to him, he must still par the bride price for virgins." (Exodus 22:16-17)

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.  (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Yes, they shall be doomed spiritually, unless they repent.

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.  (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

These people were involved in idolatry. These people refused to worship God after several times. Regardless, it does not say they "were" put to death, this was just a warning.

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods.  In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully.  If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you.  He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors.  "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him."  (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Deuteronomy 13:13-19 does not say this.

There isn't even a "Deuteronomy 13:19." Is this from the Atheist version of the Bible?

Besides, it clears says to try them first. In the NIV version it says "That wicked men have risen among you and have led people to their town astray..."

These men were wicked, they weren't just "non-believers." They did wicked acts, and tried to get the rest of the town to do the same.

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him.  Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you.  You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery.  And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.  (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

This is talking to a specific group of people. These people came out of Egypt. If anyone came to them and told them to worship other "gods" they were to "purge the evil." Again, they weren't simply, "non-belivers" they believed in other gods, and tried to lead these people astray while doing wicked acts. Had they have just kept it to themselves, they would not be purged.

Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden.  When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death.  (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Notice the word "and." So, not only did they do wicked acts, they worshipped other gods as well.

(Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, "All of you who are on the LORD's side, come over here and join me." And all the Levites came.  He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors."  The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day.  Then Moses told the Levites, "Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing."  (Exodus 32:26-29 NLT)

These people were heavy sinners. Plus, he said "all those on the Lords side, come join me." So, they had a choice. We obviously don't know what kind of sins these people were doing. They could have been raping women, children, and commiting murder while worshipping other Gods. Sure, they were non-believer's, but there was much more to it than just that.

Do not bow down before their gods or worship them or follow their practices. You must demolish them and break their sacred stones to pieces.

Exodus 23:23-25

Yes, this talks about distroying their idols. Do keep in mind that most "other gods" during this time were evil Satanic gods, like Belze-bub and others.

If you ever forget the LORD your God and follow other gods and worship and bow down to them, I testify against you today that you will surely be destroyed.

Deuteronomy 8:18-20

Yes, they will be "surely destroyed" spiritually, if they do not repent or change their ways.

Do not follow other gods to serve and worship them; do not provoke me to anger with what your hands have made. Then I will not harm you."

Jeremiah 25:5-7

628934[/snapback]

This says nothing about killing.

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zandore
Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden.  When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death.  (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
Notice the word "and." So, not only did they do wicked acts, they worshipped other gods as well.
Amalgamut what happened to "Free will/freedom of choice" that Adam and Eve had? Was it OK them to disobey God but not anyone else in the OT?

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Amalgamut
Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden.  When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death.  (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
Notice the word "and." So, not only did they do wicked acts, they worshipped other gods as well.
Amalgamut what happened to "Free will/freedom of choice" that Adam and Eve had? Was it OK them to disobey God but not anyone else in the OT?

629992[/snapback]

Adam and Eve did not worship other gods.

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Jodie.Lynne
(Moses) stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, "All of you who are on the LORD's side, come over here and join me." And all the Levites came.  He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors."  The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day.  Then Moses told the Levites, "Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing."  (Exodus 32:26-29 NLT)

These people were heavy sinners. Plus, he said "all those on the Lords side, come join me." So, they had a choice. We obviously don't know what kind of sins these people were doing. They could have been raping women, children, and commiting murder while worshipping other Gods. Sure, they were non-believer's, but there was much more to it than just that.

629883[/snapback]

Yes, we have no way of knowing what their 'crimes' were.

Maybe, they were doubters, and we all know how dangerous they can be.......

And it is so reassuring to know that these men would receive a 'great blessing' in compensation for killing their sons and brothers. But, I guess that slaughter in the name of god is a good thing. Even as we condemn other religions for doing the very same thing......

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zandore
Adam and Eve did not worship other gods.
But they followed Lucifer's urging. They did what he wanted them to do.

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SilverCougar
Adam and Eve did not worship other gods.
But they followed Lucifer's urging. They did what he wanted them to do.

630008[/snapback]

I swear to the gods that Lucifer's name will be cleared and people will call the tempter guy by his right name >.<

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Amalgamut
Adam and Eve did not worship other gods.
But they followed Lucifer's urging. They did what he wanted them to do.

630008[/snapback]

Yes, they did. And God punished them. Adam and Eve fell into temptation, which is sin. However, no worshipping was involved.

The people spoken of in the above passages were mainly considered devil worshippers. God did not want wicked people affecting the holy ones. These people not only embraced in wickedness, they tried to get others to follow them and do wicked things as well.

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Amalgamut
Yes, we have no way of knowing what their 'crimes' were.

Maybe, they were doubters, and we all know how dangerous they can be.......

And it is so reassuring to know that these men would receive a 'great blessing' in compensation for killing their sons and brothers.  But, I guess that slaughter in the name of god is a good thing.  Even as we condemn other religions for doing the very same thing......

630007[/snapback]

As I said, these people sinned. Their sin could have been a simple cuss word, or a capital crime. We really do not know. However, judging by the scriptures these people were heavily sinning and worshipping other "gods."

They even had a chance to side with Moses, however they did not.

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zandore

Exodus

17:13 And Joshua discomfited Amalek and his people with the edge of the sword

17:14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write this for a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven

Gods words! Still in Exodus

22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

The right verse this time! thumbsup.gif

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