Sallie's house

[BirdsMom]

I posted under someone elses thread and thought I would post it in a new one. I know there are lots of interested people that would like to know more about this house. So here is the post.

I was looking for information on the Sallie house so I could fill in the details of the "story" for a friend of my son. Jerry and I started investigating several years ago and have many years of experience of our own before this. Our investigative group is in Kansas and we have been visiting the Sallie house for seven months now. We found out the house was for sale and since Jerry grew up in Atchison he contacted the owner. We at first just wanted to know if it was really haunted, and could we get pictures. We had seen the shows on Sightings but like you have all mentioned how can a viewer know if it is real or not. We had a hard time believing that a ghost could do this or would do this to anyone they hadn't known in life. What is their beef? Well like I said all we started out to do was satisfy ourselves at to is it or isn't it HAUNTED? Want the answer now or do you want the story drawn out. skip the next line if you don't want to know right now......IT"s haunted beyond our wildest dreams. This house is so interesting I find myself thinking about it many times a day. Yes we went in very suspicious because it was for sale. The Les said we could investigate and asked for a small fee to help him cover costs. It was $40 bucks, less than a night at a cheap motel so he isn't making money. I have no idea how detailed you would like to read but I will skim over a little. One of our members started to research the history and story put out by the sightings show. Lets just say they jumped to a bunch of conclusions they should have checked out a little bit closer. Oh and once we got started Jerry contacted an old school friend that now works at the library, she has been most helpful. Once we told her we want facts, cold hard facts, and no hearsay she contacted another woman who is a professional researcher. This woman had offered some of her findings to Chris Moon who said he wasn't interested. It was at this point that I lost any faith in this investigative group. What kind of investigator turns down cold hard documented facts???? STupid just stupid but we are happy he did because we have found some very good people who also want to set the story straight.

On our first night we took the toys that have been left there for Sallie and moved them to another room. A few minutes later on a cassette recorder we placed in the room we got a grade A EVP, sharp and clear, "stay put". Sounded like a little girl. Was she telling her toys to stay put? Maybe but she could have also been repeating what she had been told, "stay put".

Oh shoot I need to say that no one lives there at this time. No furniture and no way to hide equipment, although I think that would be impossible anyway. These ghosts are so very aware of what takes place in this house it is amazing. We have one EVP that is talking about us and says, "there back". We hoped that as they get use to us coming they might also allow more direct communication with us. We also hope for some really good pictures but I think they will not let that happen if at all possible.

As for the story we have found so many errors. This is what we think happened or how this story got started. The young child in the house said she played with Sallie. Once the attacks started on the father/husband, Tony the wife started looking for help and contacted sightings. It was the sighting group that contacted the library. Sightings also contacted a psychic who came up with the year 1905 and also claimed there was a little girl named Sallie. (One interesting point, fake psychic's seem to use Sallie or Sara often.) Also interesting is that you will find that 100 years ago Sallie WAS/is a nick name for Sara. Once they decided to search for a Sally that died in 1905 they found the name of Sallie Hall who was in fact listed as buried in 1905. The cemetery doesn't have an age listed for this person and those who were trying to prove what the psychic's stated kind of dropped the ball at this stage. Interesting that the grave marker for this person was hard to read and has been stolen from this sight. Little do they know they just ripped off some poor woman's grave marker because the woman buried there was a mulatto, 34 years old and had ten kids, one of which is also buried in this plot. This is also the "black" section of the cemetery another fact that might have clued them in had they done proper research. The doctor that supposedly operated on her at his home/office had an office located downtown, so how did they come up with the fact that he worked out of the house. Ok, lets say it was an emergency, I am sure they didn't have an answering service so they probably would go to his home. This is where the story could be true but we have no idea where any of this came from because there are no actual records that any of us can find to prove this story is correct. Oh I have so many details like the number of doctors (2) and funeral homes (also 2). Records for only one of those funeral directors can be found and we have access to records from only one doctor. We do know that the doctor that lived here was Sallie Hall's doctor but hey she is way to old to even be the ghost that haunts this house.

Ok I said we got one EVP the first night. We thought we heard other stuff but we had the furnace on and I was using Maxell tapes. Yes the brand of tapes we use made a huge difference in being able to pull out the EVP. We also started using a program I used several years ago called cool edit. It is now called Adobe and the difference between windows media and Adobe could be measured in yards. We are still learning how to use this program for EVP use instead of music. We have hundreds of EVP from this house. From our last visit I still have two video tapes to review and a number of cassette tapes I have not got to yet. I can tell you that placement of equipment seems to make a pretty big difference. I have picked up the voice of an old man in the hall closet by the front door. I think this closet was put in after the house was built but this is the only place we have heard him. We have the voice of the girl and I won't go into details but we do believe her name is Sallie/Sally. We have the voice of a man who is the father figure and believe there is a chance this is the real biological father of Sallie. We have heard what sounds like an English accent from EVP's of the two of them. We have an EVP where the one woman asks Sallie a question and calls her by name. We have an EVP that says "Tom needs to hold her hand". We don't know if Tom is the father figure or if there is another Tom. We also heard one of the woman mention a Dave but we couldn't make out enough of the sentence to know what else was said. We have the voices of two women or at least it sounds like two different voices. We have identified one of them from a conversation between the father figure and Agnes. He says "Agnes I am about the same age as you". I am not the one who has kept all the records and history of the house so don't quote me but the house was built around 1881 by M. C. and Agnes Phinny. (might also be spelled Finny). Ha Ha so cool to have an EVP with the name of someone we have records on that lived there. Ok now for the rest...we know that Agnes dies of gangrene from an injuries to her foot or lower leg. Although they caught the infection early and her son was a doctor the gangrene finally takes her. This was a slow painful death that would have cause high fever and delirium. This could explain the second voice or what sounds to be another voice or there could be the second woman. We have EVP that sounds like this Agnes snarling and growling. Since we seemed to hear this when we got the voice of Agnes we thought maybe this woman is a little crazy. I heard something different one time when playing and working with one of the EVP's. I think what we have here is a small child (who calls her Mommy) and is almost always with her. This child died before old enough to speak many words but he is full of sound effects. What made me wonder if we hadn't misunderstood what we heard was the EVP that sounds like a child shooting with his loaded finger. We have all played that we can blow away the enemy with our finger gun. lol We started listening with the idea that it is a child making sound effects instead of a crazy woman but even so we can't agree that they can all be explained away this way. We did find some type record that indicated Agnes lost a toddler while in that house too. So research continues as to who this child might be. We have the toddler calling Agnes Mommy. We don't have Sallie calling her mommy or her calling him dad but we do have EVP of them and their English accents, which leads us to think they may have been father/child. We also can not over look the possibility that they came together and ACT as a family in death. We also have EVP captured as we tried to talk them over to the other side. In a woman's voice she says they say they need to stay together and they can't/won't allow anyone to leave because they will go as a group when they can. We believe that one of the children were listening and ready to go but was held back. We have other recording where they wanted to go with us either to the store or to locations that were mentioned. (usually distinguished homes from the past, family names they may have known from their lives). So as you can tell this house has our complete and total interest. As for the travel channel who said it was just a house. Ha Ha I sure wish they would come visit this house with us sometime. I suspect they sent a crew with no background of paranormal investigation but then we also know this ghost family doesn't want all the attention it has had the past twelve years. Oh I could and might write a book about this place but for now we investigate for our own benefit. We are not trying to prove to anyone that it is haunted, frankly we don't care because it is their loss and we do understand skeptics. We started out very skeptic and when Les said he just didn't want anyone in the attic well guess what we checked out. The only reason he didn't want anyone up there was the fear of falling through cause there was nothing but a few dirty shirts and a dead rat. No wires, no equipment. As for why he was trying to sell the house well we asked him that. He said he had no plans to do that until he went in and started fixing the place up. He said they bothered him so much and just messed with him so much he told them he had enough of it and if they didn't stop he was "going to burn the damn house to the ground". When finished he decided just to get rid of the house if he could make some money. The house is VERY well known and he even got calls from Germany. Now really if you were in his shoes and had put up with not being able to rent it out and the problems surrounding this house wouldn't you try to make some money? I don't think he really wants to get rid of it because he is a little interested in all of it too but if he could sell for 2 million then he was willing. Oh well I must get busy. I am sitting here thinking of this or that I forgot to mention but hey I could already write a book. I felt compelled to write when I stumbled on to this site because everyone seemed so interested. Oh and I didn't even mention the video. I have three hours of video where you can tell someone is playing with it. It was even turned off twice and you can hear the click when the switch moves. I guess this was the one thing that convinced me that the ghosts there at Sallies house do in fact have the power and ability to scratch a person. I have been playfully smacked on my butt when bent over, no one in the room. First time I said oh I have an active imagination I wasn't even aware of but the second time.....

Oh and as for Sallie being the bad little girl I say no way. I really like Sallie and she has the sweetest voice. There has been no indication she deserves the reputation she has been given. My guess, Agnes is the one who didn't like Tony. We have had nothing negative happen while there and I would have no problem spending the night alone in that house. Ok, now I really must go but if there is interest please let me know and if you have questions .....fire away. I don't have all the answers but we are trying. Have we gone to the press no. We want to study this house and to go to the press and take the chance they would find out just isn't a risk we want to take right now. We would also like to give Les more detail about what we have found but we believe that this family is aware of Les and some of his former tenants. We are trying to gain the trust of this ghost family so we are being careful. This place is so interesting and amazing.

[hamellr]

Lots of good info.. but it would be more readable if you used paragraphs. Date and times would be good too for when and where you heard the voices.

The only other suggestion I have is if you can go back, take an EMF and NightVision to see if you can see anything.

[tazmania]

I am the woman who's husband lived through all the attacks, all the media, all the rumors. Just to set a few misinterpretations straight this is how it went ...We didn't have a girl child in the house who played with Sallie . Our first son was born in the house after the phenomenon started. Now I wonder who's screwing up the facts. Further more I came up with 1905 and the deaths records of all the children who died before age 13. We were the ones who brought in the Physic from California. The mulatto woman had 14 children. Sallie's mother was mulatto and so was she. Finney is the spelling for the Doctor and is the same on his and his wife's and his father's grave located in Mount Calvary Cemetary on hwy 7 just north of town.

Hope this clarifies a few things and show how distorted some people can make things appear.

On the topic of the EVp's and video you have gotten I am truly happy for you.I am glad that more inverstigators are getting positive results. The house seems to be selective in it's presentations. Perhaps your mind set is finally in the correct mode to receive their interaction.

I have tried to get in to the forum at paranormalsoup and correct a multitude of misconceptions but I and others can't get in. I would love to give people the facts so they don't have to make things up. For more facts login to an EVP base group out of Indiana's chat room every Monday night. I'll be there. I'd mention the specific site but not sure if that's allowed. My ID there and in the forums is tazmom. See you in the forums.

[BirdsMom]

Hello Taz,

I hope you return to see this. I am not the one who keeps the records of house history. The "sightings" information is just what we can remember as none of us are able to get the reruns where we live. I do make mistakes but I will also admit that our information on the actual facts of what you experienced is second hand. I have heard a lot about you and have wanted to talk to you because I think we would get along very well. (we do think a lot alike) I also think you would like Jennifer who is Jerry's daughter. For what it is worth I also think you might like Jerry if you get to know him. He did share what he wrote to you (after the fact) and Jennifer and I both told him to stop because we had told him all along that we didn't feel anything negative and to knock it off with the evil crap! Believe it or not he now thinks we were right and that there is nothing evil in that house. His studies have focus more on the demonic realm and I like to think of myself as middle of the road but I have to admit that I lean more to dead people whether you call it spirit or ghost because my experiences have been more along those lines. I think I must have confused or misunderstood what Jennifer was saying about the little girl playing with your own children. She was probably talking about Heather and I didn't realize that. Do you know anything about the little boy that lives there? Would you be willing to talk to me so that we do get the story straight? We have spent more than 100 hours in that house and are serious about publishing our findings with audio and video. I have hundreds of questions and even theories I would like to share with you. Another mistake I made was that I thought Agnes was the wife of the man who built the house but she was the daughter. Agnes didn't have any children that we know of it was her mother that lost children and until I have written information from Jennifer I don't even want to go into that. lol I actually try not to listen to close to what she has found because I don't want it to influence the investigation. What we want is documentation to prove what we find. Where did the story of Sallie going to the doctor come from? How did you know the child's name is Sallie? The Sallie buried in the cemetery was 34 so why is it that you think she is the child in this house? As a mom I find myself thinking of Sallie and I know you must have become close to her. You must have been torn to some degree about leaving her behind. I suspect she does come to see you because I am almost certain that she or one of them from that house has visited me from time to time. I really would like to talk to you because our interest is with facts. We also find it interesting that your problems started after the birth of your child. We have heard of this happening to others and find it interesting this would bring on negativity to a previously peaceful house. Did you know about the ghosts before your child was born? Renae

[tazmania]

Birdsmom,

Was glad to see your post today. I think what disturbed me the most about much of what was contained within your earlier posts was that is was presented as fact. You seem to be telling everyone what was what and were in fact very far from the truth in so many facets. I understand mistakes but much of this was not written by mistake. I understand theories but it also was not presented as that either. And surely you must realize how second hand info can be so damning. (When you were a young child did you ever play the game where the first person whispers something to the next , and so on, until the last person tells what her was told out load to everyone? It usually is nothing close to what was originally said. OK I won't beat the dead horse any more. Onto other things....

You need to understand that I am a little gun shy when it comes to talking to strangers. They usually have ulterior motives, or use the information inappropriately, or turn it against us, or simply are disrespectful. I remember the February weekend my mother died - I was contacted, via a personal friend, and told that an investigating group had desperately wanted me to stop by the house for the last day of their investigation and they were very non compassionate about the fact that I was in mourning. All they cared about was what they wanted. I'm sure you can understand where I'm coming from.

I'm wary to give contact information b/c I usually don't know anything about who I'm dealing with. You and so many others had made up your mind that there was not haunting or activity in that house and that it was all a hoax, others forced demonic theories on us, and so on. There are very few who actually take the time to get the "real" facts or take the time and direction needed to get results.

I'm extremely excited about the EVP you are currently getting and think in doing so you may have changed you views on the house and our experience within it. I've read through some threads and have seen a slow change in your theories. Believe me, I do know that much of what you posted was you thoughts and theories in trying to make sense out of the tidbits of info you had. And don't get me wrong theories are great!

I have read a recent update from Jerry on a website (as recent as April I think) and he has changed his tune. It still doesn't excuse the way he approached us or what he thought he had to push us to understand. We were much more time in the house, more experienced with what was in it, and had done more research. We were and continue to be very capable of keeping an open mind and give credibility to all possibilities.

I would probably think of myself, like you, as being middle of the road between the spirit vs. demonic because much of what we've experienced (and this house has been my only experience) seems to cross parameters that each paranormal type of entity should be within. (i.e. spirits, poltergeist, demons, angels etc..). The only thing I have been able to determine is that there are many things going on in that house and I have not yet ruled out demonic.

I will be happy to share some things with you, but I am in the process of trying to find a publisher for a book I have co-written with one of the paranormal investigators who has been an integral part in revealing relevant and specific information through EVP and more research. We have gotten the 1st draft from the editor and there is much included with in it's pages that we aren't yet ready to release. I'm sure, however, that I can answer many of your questions.......

A few months before our 1st son was born we had quite a bit of harmless activity that we didn't put together until after we realized we had Sallie. Then we had the bear incident that creeped us out big time and had called in the Physic, Barbara Conner. We got the name Sallie from her. Sallie was further confirmed by Heather's mom who stopped in to tell us of her daughter playing with, what she thought was, an imaginary friend after she saw the first Sightings episode. It was confirmed again when Peter James came to the house.

The little girl playing with Sallie was Heather. I don't know if I have heard anything about a little boy. We never had activity, or mention of him when we communicated to Sallie via a medium. Sallie only told about a woman who physical came to the house with an earthbound being, and decided she liked it there and stayed. Sallie never liked her and said she was bossy, and that she did things making sure Sallie got the blame for them.

Yes Charles and Louise had 3 children, Michael Charles (M.C.) who married and built the house at 510 2nd street for his wife, James, and Agnus (who never married).

The story about Sallie going to the doctor I believe came from the Haunted Trolley Tour driver the first year it ran. My husband & I took the ride to see what they would say about the house. It was unbelievable the things that had been made up for the tourists. At the end of the ride I stopped to talk to the driver and asked where he got his information from. He said "from the Sightings show". I told him that I had not heard of any of the things he had said on the tour, and he said "well, the show ran several episodes, perhaps you missed one." I proceeded to tell him that there were 8 segments and non of them had that information in it, and that I knew that b/c I was the one that lived in the house and was on each of those shows." I also told him that if he would have asked I would have given him some good stories to tell. Without a word more he turned and made a B line for a quick get away. Tony and I were quite upset at the whole experience, but chalked it up to tourism. I suppose we should have nipped it in the bud right there, but we didn't. The story has picked up speed ever since.

Sighting gave the public a raw deal on the reality of the Sallie grave. The Sallie in the cemetery is a Hall and yes she's 34 years old and buried with an infant son. We have reason to believe that this is little Sallie's mother (who was Mulatto). Hall's lived around the block from the Finney's and I've felt, from day one, that the Black Hall family was employed by the Finney's in some way and that a relation developed with Sallie Hall (mom), hence little Sallie who, by the drawings my husband has done and what he saw, looks mulatto/almost white. We've got some interesting EVP a child's screams, of the Dr., Charles and a woman who is not very nice. I can't go into anymore detail about that right now. We'll just say that there was foul play, hidden secretes, and more. Have also run into news clippings of Mayor Finney and the chief of police being removed from office. Still trying to figure out for what and if he did jail time. I have a good idea (just theory at this point) and don't think it was for boot legging.

Yes I was actually quite torn when we had to leave the house and Sallie to fend for herself. We told her that she was welcome to come with, but figured she would stay behind, after all that was where she was comfortable. She did tell us that she had been to our new house when we found it and had picked out her place there. I think she may have visited a few times but no activity like we had before, actually very quiet and we found it somewhat comforting.

[BirdsMom]

First of all let me just say that I never doubted that it was haunted as I have had experience with this all my life. I had doubts that it would still BE haunted as there have been a number of psychics come through there trying to send them on. Also because some of it sounded like poltergeist that sometimes move with the people they become attached to for a lack of a better phrase. (its late) Then when you see the movie of Haunted Heartland and the Hollywood that seeped into that flick, well we did wonder how much was to be believed. I don't think I ever doubted that something took place there as I said but to what degree and if it was still there was a question in my mind. That has no reflection on YOU at all.

I want you to know that I have NOT changed my thoughts about this house but I have changed Jerry's. He seemed to think that because of the fires started that it was a demonic presents and he was actually worried about your family. No his approach was not the best and he wasn't representing the group as a whole when he wrote to you. He showed us the letters and Jennifer and I both asked why he had written like that when we had NEVER said we thought it was evil. I trust after we talked to him that he never contacted you from our group or himself. I feel that our personalities stay with us when we die so if one is a bitter person in life then nothing changes much when they die. Look at the people in the news, what will they be like when they die? A few years ago I over heard someone say they really wish someone they knew would die. I leaned over and told them they might want to reconsider that wish because at least while they are here they could see them. I so hope that my husbands EX lives a long life, and that is the honest truth. lol Think I would much rather take my chances with Sallie and company. Again, I have no idea what Jerry was thinking when he contacted you.

Ok back to what you were saying. If you read again what I wrote was, "This is what we think happened or how this story got started." It is the story of this girl that got me going because there is no hard fact that it happened the way it is sometimes reported and the grave is NOT that of the little girl Sallie. If it is her mom fine but we have not been able to find written documentation to support this.

Ok now for the mistakes. Yup I made some, I got the mother and daughters names backwards. I didn't have the records in front of me and what made me write was because I was excited that we finally heard one of the names we HAVE records about. Agnes didn't have children, none at all but her mother had two as I recall that died. MC married Katherine (Kate) December 31, 1854 in Lexington, Missouri. James was born in 1856 and they moved to Atchison the same year.

Mamie died age 15 mo. dates unknown

Agnes Marie Finney was born October 30th 1861.

Charles C was born Feb 1, 1865.

Edwin born unknown, died Sept 29th 1874 at 1 1/2 years old.

This means that MC married Katherine had three children that lived and one of those, Charles marries Louise in 1904. (I believe you wrote that these two are the ones who built the house but from the dates we have this can not be true). It is late so I may not have followed everything you said.

Another fact that would indicate our records are correct is the fact that a Charles H, son of Charles C and Louise was born on Feb17th, 1907.

Now you say Agnes never married, well she did, to a William, Known as Billy to the Rulo Branch of the Burlington railroad, which employed him as an engineer and they lived in Nebraska which we show records of their residence in 1913 the same year Charles C was elected mayor.

William (Agnes husband) suffered a stroke of paralysis in Dec 1916 in Wyoming. Agnes then brings him back to Atchison where they remain until he died in 1918.

I knew I had turned the two women around, I was thinking of the right people but had the names backward. Katherine was the mother of Agnes not the other way around and I am sorry for writing that. I did realize that it was wrong and intended to come back and change it. My only child graduated from college, was commissioned to the Air Force as an officer and he leaves for officer training in the next four days. This has all taken place in a time span of three weeks so I am exhausted to say the least. I divorced his father when he was one and we have been very close and I know I will miss him. He is one of only 500 people across the USA to get a chance of becoming a fighter pilot so he won't be coming home very often and I have been spending as much time with him as I can. What ever happens he will be a pilot for the US Air Force and I am PROUD of him. I am sorry I didn't get back sooner to correct the mistakes but then I will always put my son before anything else going on in my life!

Keep searching because you will find that I have defended you (and Sallie for that matter) in a number of message boards that I can't even recall at the moment. Well I must go, I think my son has plans to take the boat out in the morning or should I say in a few hours. Oh geeze!

I do hope we can be friends and if you will re read I did say that we thought this was how the story got started. As for the tour guides making this up well what can you expect that is why we really have tried to find the facts. As you can probably tell we have put a lot of work into this. Renae

[BirdsMom]

First of all let me just say that I never doubted that it was haunted as I have had experience with this all my life. I had doubts that it would still BE haunted as there have been a number of psychics come through there trying to send them on. Also because some of it sounded like poltergeist that sometimes move with the people they become attached to for a lack of a better phrase. (its late) Then when you see the movie of Haunted Heartland and the Hollywood that seeped into that flick, well we did wonder how much was to be believed. I don't think I ever doubted that something took place there as I said but to what degree and if it was still there was a question in my mind. That has no reflection on YOU at all.

I want you to know that I have NOT changed my thoughts about this house but I have changed Jerry's. He seemed to think that because of the fires started that it was a demonic presents and he was actually worried about your family. No his approach was not the best and he wasn't representing the group as a whole when he wrote to you. He showed us the letters and Jennifer and I both asked why he had written like that when we had NEVER said we thought it was evil. I trust after we talked to him that he never contacted you from our group or himself. I feel that our personalities stay with us when we die so if one is a bitter person in life then nothing changes much when they die. Look at the people in the news, what will they be like when they die? A few years ago I over heard someone say they really wish someone they knew would die. I leaned over and told them they might want to reconsider that wish because at least while they are here they could see them. I so hope that my husbands EX lives a long life, and that is the honest truth. lol Think I would much rather take my chances with Sallie and company. Again, I have no idea what Jerry was thinking when he contacted you.

Ok back to what you were saying. If you read again what I wrote was, "This is what we think happened or how this story got started." It is the story of this girl that got me going because there is no hard fact that it happened the way it is sometimes reported and the grave is NOT that of the little girl Sallie. If it is her mom fine but we have not been able to find written documentation to support this.

Ok now for the mistakes. Yup I made some, I got the mother and daughters names backwards. I didn't have the records in front of me and what made me write was because I was excited that we finally heard one of the names we HAVE records about. Agnes didn't have children, none at all but her mother had two as I recall that died. MC married Katherine (Kate) December 31, 1854 in Lexington, Missouri. James was born in 1856 and they moved to Atchison the same year.

Mamie died age 15 mo. dates unknown

Agnes Marie Finney was born October 30th 1861.

Charles C was born Feb 1, 1865.

Edwin born unknown, died Sept 29th 1874 at 1 1/2 years old.

This means that MC married Katherine had three children that lived and one of those, Charles marries Louise in 1904. (I believe you wrote that these two are the ones who built the house but from the dates we have this can not be true). It is late so I may not have followed everything you said.

Another fact that would indicate our records are correct is the fact that a Charles H, son of Charles C and Louise was born on Feb17th, 1907.

Now you say Agnes never married, well she did, to a William, Known as Billy to the Rulo Branch of the Burlington railroad, which employed him as an engineer and they lived in Nebraska which we show records of their residence in 1913 the same year Charles C was elected mayor.

William (Agnes husband) suffered a stroke of paralysis in Dec 1916 in Wyoming. Agnes then brings him back to Atchison where they remain until he died in 1918.

I knew I had turned the two women around, I was thinking of the right people but had the names backward. Katherine was the mother of Agnes not the other way around and I am sorry for writing that. I did realize that it was wrong and intended to come back and change it. My only child graduated from college, was commissioned to the Air Force as an officer and he leaves for officer training in the next four days. This has all taken place in a time span of three weeks so I am exhausted to say the least. I divorced his father when he was one and we have been very close and I know I will miss him. He is one of only 500 people across the USA to get a chance of becoming a fighter pilot so he won't be coming home very often and I have been spending as much time with him as I can. What ever happens he will be a pilot for the US Air Force and I am PROUD of him. I am sorry I didn't get back sooner to correct the mistakes but then I will always put my son before anything else going on in my life!

Keep searching because you will find that I have defended you (and Sallie for that matter) in a number of message boards that I can't even recall at the moment. Well I must go, I think my son has plans to take the boat out in the morning or should I say in a few hours. Oh geeze!

I do hope we can be friends and if you will re read I did say that we thought this was how the story got started. As for the tour guides making this up well what can you expect that is why we really have tried to find the facts. As you can probably tell we have put a lot of work into this. Renae

[tazmania]

Birdsmom,

Yes I did get the Charles' mixed up and often find myself doing that. I need to be more carefull. Also I was in error referring to Agnus as not being married. I was reviewing the deed records earlier that evening and had another woman in mind.

I'm curious why Agnus lived in wyoming and was deeded the house here in Atchison: On 4-18-1906 there is a deed #142 (seems out of sequence) from Joanna Barnes to Agnes M. Finney for $300 (twice what she paid for the house-is that b/c she doubled the size of the house?) There was a major home improvement done on the house at some point (I'm sure you noticed the archetectural differences in some of the rooms) just not sure when or who did it.

Do you have records of reference on either of the following: Joana Barnes and Catherine Bayes? They are mentioned early in the records but I haven't yet found what their tie to the family is.

I don't know about you but we have run into conflicting information from different sources/records on several ocassions. It makes the work that much harder.

[tazmania]

I'm having a bit of trouble keeping up with the information needed on so many boards, so I've decided to post most of my information on a board close to the investigation. www.hauntedvoices.com. Todd Bates, the owner, who some of you may already know, is a very professional EVP specialists and would welcome you I'm sure. Should anyone have any questions, EVP, photos etc.. you can catch me there.

[BirdsMom]

Hum, yes we all make mistakes. I didn't say that she lived in Wyoming and as far as I know she didn't. What our information said was that her husband had a stroke there (remember he worked on the railroad). It is kind of open ended so it is unknown if they actually lived there. (At least I do not know) He could have been working or they could have been on vacation I really don't know.

What I would like to know is if her husband might have had any children with someone else before he married Agnes.

Edited June 8, 2005 by BirdsMom

[tazmania]

Just wanted to say that after meeting you Last month, I realized how dedicated you are to this haunting and finding out the truth. I love the fact that you are getting so many EVP's and thank you for letting me listen to them when you last visited the Sallie house.

If anyone would like to follow the research, and continuos investigating being done on the house and this haunting, you will find up-to-date information at the following link. Haunted Voices

Thank you Birdsmom for continuing to share the evidence, research, and theories of your group with us

[celestialchild]

It seems that you are only interested in making money off this place instead of really finding out the truth. That truth I believe will never be found. I have my reasons for believing this. I have been to Haunted voices is it? The book, the doll that was ebay etc. It is plain and simply wrong folks. Serious researchers I think would be out to find the truth not capitalize on it as this haunted voices site seems to be doing.

The paranormal is meant to be studied. As we grow in the community. We are coming closer to actual proof. That proof is still a long way off but those of you wishing to make $ off it. Sets all of us back So you lived their big deal. Does that give you the right to make money off of it? If you were the owner I would say yes but your not.

How do I know that? Research!

It is not that I am putting down your research, I have also researched this place but stopped becasue It consumes you. I had to stop. I had bad things happening in my life and home at this time but once I stopped it stopped. I came across the attack video it does not show the actual attack of this man being cut. It shows the cut but not the actual cutting itself. I do not doubt your experiences their. One would think that after experiencing such things you would move on and not deliberately put yourself or anyone else in harms way. That just boggles me I became interested after visiting this place twice. I feel what is their may not be demonic. It is though very angry, very determined to keep its secrets. Sorry but I will not answer quetions as to what group and when. I am a private person. This needs to be said. Leave well enough alone! This place brings misery to anyone connected to it.

Edited April 7, 2006 by celestialchild

[Nadia B.]

Celestial, hon, I thought this thread was dead and buried. You're ranting at long gone members, dear. If you wanted people to leave it alone, why in the world did you bring this thread back?

[celestialchild]

Guess I did not look at the dates, my bad, was searching and came across it.

[Nadia B.]

LOL, well I guess you're forgiven. If you'd started a new thread, you'd probably have been told to do a search. I found this interraction interesting myself. It was a good one, that's for sure.

[BirdsMom]

No we are both still alive and well. Tazmom and our group have joined forces in an effort to find the answers so that we might also be able to help others. I am not a member of Haunted Voices and only signed up so that I could post to TazMom. We have done extensive research on the house and I knew that it would hold up to inspection. We have an Atchison professional researcher always looking for the names we give her and a very devoted dedicated person working at the library who researches for us. She is an email away.

The doll was given by Tazmom to help the owner of HV with just the usual costs involved with running and maintaining a web site. Don't look now but there are lots of so called psychic's making money buying dolls then claiming they are haunted and selling them on eBay. At least this one was the real deal and they never said it was haunted as I recall.

I know the couple has made only a nominal fee's from any production of their story and she does plan to write a book of their experiences. We will also write a book if we feel we have uncovered the truth but honestly right now I am focused on helping Tony. Just because they moved away doesn't mean that he doesn't think about it everyday and wonder....will it return. I don't think anyone can just walk away after living with something like this.

I have spent thousands of hours reviewing tapes for evp to figure out who was there and which one is doing the scratching. I have spent several thousands of dollars on equipment and I have not made one cent off of my work. That money doesn't even include the time that I spend reviewing tapes we record for hours because if you have investigated this house you would know that they don't give up information easily. Not like some places where they want to talk. For your comment that we lived there, no one in our group ever lived there so I don't know what you are talking about or what research you did to come up with that. If you mean the couple that lived there and experienced all that activity I would say they are very much entitled to make money off of their story and that it could help others that are in the same situation.

You are right about it not being demonic, she is just troubled. I am often visited at my house by the entities in that house even the one that scratches. Oh shoot I guess we did get paid March 18th when we found an 1862 British penny on the living room floor. Even if we were to sell it, it wouldn't cover the cost of one tape.

If you really are interested in the research please come visit us. Michael from Chicago listened to our research and some of our EVP and was impressed enough to set up a new website devoted to this house any only this house. Our group feels that it is necessary to find the answers to this haunting because it will help others, but right now our goal is to help the man who is still disturbed by the events he and his wife experienced in this house.

We do have scratches that have appeared on camera and in front of witnesses. We also have comments that were made by the ghosts after the fact which seem to be giving us clues to what is happening.

No sense in writing this twice so come see us. Salliehouse.com

Thanks

[Michael esposito]

It seems that you are only interested in making money off this place instead of really finding out the truth. That truth I believe will never be found. I have my reasons for believing this. I have been to Haunted voices is it? The book, the doll that was ebay etc. It is plain and simply wrong folks. Serious researchers I think would be out to find the truth not capitalize on it as this haunted voices site seems to be doing.

The paranormal is meant to be studied. As we grow in the community. We are coming closer to actual proof. That proof is still a long way off but those of you wishing to make $ off it. Sets all of us back So you lived their big deal. Does that give you the right to make money off of it? If you were the owner I would say yes but your not.

How do I know that? Research!

It is not that I am putting down your research, I have also researched this place but stopped becasue It consumes you. I had to stop. I had bad things happening in my life and home at this time but once I stopped it stopped. I came across the attack video it does not show the actual attack of this man being cut. It shows the cut but not the actual cutting itself. I do not doubt your experiences their. One would think that after experiencing such things you would move on and not deliberately put yourself or anyone else in harms way. That just boggles me I became interested after visiting this place twice. I feel what is their may not be demonic. It is though very angry, very determined to keep its secrets. Sorry but I will not answer quetions as to what group and when. I am a private person. This needs to be said. Leave well enough alone! This place brings misery to anyone connected to it.

We'll since you opened the can of worms lol! I agree with you on the capitalization of paranormal reserch, but do let me inform you as a researcher myself NOBODY EVER BECAME RICH CHASING GHOSTS! LOL so dont worry about that! Research costs money travel costs money wesites cost money gear costs money everything costs money - I'll guarantee you that people have mad bundles off of Ghost/ paranormal researchers, but i'll guarantee you that when paranormal researchers have any extr money they are spending it on something related! LOL So on that please dont lose any sleep. In fact I put up a bid of $200 on the Sallie House rag doll before they took it off of ebay. BTW I just got my figures in from London on the $2000 I spent to get the Ghost Orchid released, I may never get my money back. Do take a look at it it is a classic and it deserves to be in print! If I make the 2K back Im going to use it to print another run! Also, the widow Cass (Raymond Cass EVP pioneer) gets a percentage as well! And she deserves it! I would love to invite you and all to our new website chock full of incredible research incluing a recient video that I personally took of scratches forming on Tony. It shows the actual attack. The site is www.salliehouse.com I would love for you to join the forum. The site has cost me a lot of money so far and I'd like people to enjoy it. There is a section for past investigations there, with wonderful evidence by members of those other groups Mike McDowell president of IGT has graciously opened all of his resources to me as well as many others. Feel free, if the spirit moves you to do the same with your experience. It would be a very welcome addition, many people would benefit and we would repect any level of privacy that you choose! On Tony being attacked yesterday Tony was there and was not touched at all. He wants to understand what and why what happened to him has and is the kind of character who chooses to face his fears. He was not led or cohersed into going, he is a big boy not a child and the kind of man who has the character to face the things he doesnt understand. And he is glad that he has. So please expect and pray for a happy ending for him! I agree with you. a very strong angry entity may run the house, but I do not believe it is demonic! And please if I may one thought to your last comment. You are a paranormal researcher, I've said this a million times: "There are no armchair paranormal researchers!" We do not leave well enough alone and we dont run. This is why we all got into this and if we thought it was anything else we were misled! So I invite you please join our forum submit evidence if you wish and become part of the solution of the great mysteries that lay before us! michael

[tazmania]

If only I were just interested in making money on this house; my credit cards and more might be paid off by now. LOL

We have many items (burnt, melted etc), and papers that were written on in crayon by the entity in the house that I'm sure some people would be glad to pay a small fortune for. We have been contacted by individuals, top notch movie makers, talk show hosts, and more. Several times we have been approached and offered considerable money for these things and yet we have turned them down. We are dedicated to revealing the facts and have steered away from Hollywood hype and sensationalism to preserve them. Any project we have agreed to consult on has been premised with the preservation of the facts (the Haunted Heartland, made-for-TV movie, did however take some simple liberties to make an interesting and plausible story line, since we could not truly provide one)

How could a serious investigator simple leave well enough alone? It's been 10 years since we moved out of that house, and since then we have been haunted by the memories of our experiences. We have tried to close the door on it all, but I have been compelled by the questions and answers I desire. I have taken every opportunity to return to the house and learn more. That is a quality of a serious researcher.

You mentioned a book in your post. I can only think that you mean the book I am writing. What gives you the audacity to tell me what I have the right to do? True, I didn't/don't own the house, but my family did live through the experiences. What is so wrong with me sharing them with people. If I am going to spend the time putting my information on paper why shouldn't I get paid for my time? It's like a fisherman making a sportsmen's video about catching fish on a lake that he doesn't own, or a teacher writing about her classroom experiences when the children are not born from her womb? Since my experiences are my own I feel that I have the right to share them in any way I see fit.

As an Investigator, you must also realize that there are many and often large expenses that go with the territory. But with the rising demand for paranormal investigations there seems to be great controversy over charging a small fee to cover tapes, batteries, gas, time spent analyzing evidence, CD's and reports provided to the customer, hotel costs etc.. It is expected that we just dig deep into our own pockets to fund it all. Most scientific researchers have financial backing of some kind. We have nothing but our own pockets.

As for the doll on Ebay, I saw a financial need at Haunted voices and dug into my box of items saved from the Sallie house, to donate something I knew that there would be any an interest in acquiring. There are many items that claim to be haunted and sold on ebay. The funds were earmarked to go back into the site, which is more dedicated than most to the furthering the study of the paranormal. You are concerned with furthering the learning in this field right?

Likewise, the portrait drawing my husband did of the apparition of a little girl he saw in the kitchen of the house is printed on T-shirts and sold at the local Chamber of Commerce. At our own expense we had card stock prints made of the same drawing and these are also sold at the Chamber. ALL proceeds go to the local domestic abuse center and safe house for battered woman ( a branch of the DOVE's center nationally). Furthermore, some of the profits from my book will also got to some charity such as the local humane society which my children have been very involved with over the years. We make NOTHING but only try to help others with the resources we have available to us.

I would also share the fact the the owner and I have know eachother for over 13 years, and most endevours are run by him for his input and authorization. The only one he has not currently authorized is the Preservation Fund that we had set up on our websitte. He was concerned with the fact that people would think he/we just wanted to make money of the house. Les has decided not to rent the house for many reasons, some of which has to do with the fact that those who move are often destructive. Our concern was the fact that, because he doesn't rent it out and has no way to cover the mortgage, innsurance, taxes or maintence of the house. The house is in need of some roofing work at this time, but he is adamant about digging in his own pockets to support this house. Again no one is in this for the money.

We are simple people who both work a 40 hour week to provide for the needs of our young family and a modest home. We have 3 children, two of which are special needs, along with medical bills, and household expenses just like everyone else. You can be sure that we could use the extra money, but we have never looked at our experiences as something to capitalize on for our own benefit. Your comment that we are" only interested in making money on this place...." is insulting to say the least.

I truely wish you knew us better. It is people like you who make assumption on things like this without all the facts and cause such controversy over little things when the original intention was actually meant with good will. We could be sharing experiences and ideas instead of butting heads on things that are truly inconsequential to the field of paranormal research.

As I stated I have been back to the house often, however my husband has done his best to stay as far away as possible for over 10 years. Yes, what he went through there was horrible and it scared him and I. He chose to return to the house of his own free will and against the better judgment of everyone I know. It was his choice however. As a man he chose to not only to face his fear but to conquer what ever it was that ran him out of his home so many years ago. It's like falling off a horse, you don't just walk away, you get back on it. Apparently he felt the time was right.

I must say that he has now gone back about 5 times. Each time the attacks are less and twice there has been none at all. I think that his growing interest and desire to learn about something has changed his frame of mind and that in doing so he has changed the expectations of what will happen while he is there. Currently, he has become quite comfortable in the house and is becoming an integral part of the research team.

Is it your summation that he/we should have just walked away and turned his back on it all? What would he have learned? What opportunities would we have missed? What sort of researchers or investigators would that make us? We are not out there to run from what we don't know or understand, we are in this field to embrace it and learn from it.

You make the point that the scratches he has received are not documented well enough. Tell me has any case ever really been able to provide enough viable evidence that some skeptic won't refute? Have you ever captured definitive proof of activity on film? The footage on HV was not claiming to be evidence on the scratch occurring, but simply documenting what had happened to my husband while he was there. It was thought that seeing the footage would be interesting for some, it was never meant to be definitive proof. Speaking of which, Sightings does have 9 minutes of footage of an attack actually happening. It is also my understanding that there is actual footage of Tony's last attack this past march. As investigators we offer what we can, sometimes it is not what we hope for or not enough, but people still want to see it.

I respect the privacy issue on sharing the name of the group and the dates you investigated the house, but doesn’t that leave a big question as to whether you were actually there? I do appreciate your blunt and honest approach to things, you don’t mince words, you just say it like you feel. LOL I’m very interested in your experiences (negative or positive) and would love to hear about them. Your input would be welcome on the Salliehouse.com site (although debated along with every other idea and theory that’s there I’m sure). So because of your interest in the haunting, I’d like to extend to you, an invitation to come over. The site is solely dedicated to this location and any and all input from those who have experienced the house or have ideas about it could mean a lot in the puzzle of information we are trying to put together.

Edited May 6, 2006 by tazmania

[Tellit_likit_is]

Tazmania, I hear you wrote a book on the experiences you and your husband had in that house and I read the first 58 pages at google books. It had me so intrigued that I ordered the book. I know I won't be disappointed. What I read so far was great! Thank you for sharing