Something Like Laughter Posted June 2, 2005 #51 Share Posted June 2, 2005 It just looks kinda like a girl but some men do. I doubt it is a girl maybe he made a bit of a mistake or this is guy is a gay sicko. 653384[/snapback] IIRC the person is portrayed in the feminine manner typical of young men in art of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amalgamut Posted June 3, 2005 #52 Share Posted June 3, 2005 (edited) Isnt the knife being held by Judas? I can understand this because Judas plotted against Jesus (I cant really tell who is holding the knife.) This could be a symbol. Edited June 3, 2005 by Amalgamut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Like Laughter Posted June 3, 2005 #53 Share Posted June 3, 2005 ive seen the guy with the knife called peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordgalyan Posted June 3, 2005 #54 Share Posted June 3, 2005 Exactly. Da Vinci wasn't there, so how would he know the whole story. I could make the same painting and put 12 hookers in "The Last Supper," and would this indicate that 12 hookers were actually there? I think not. So, regardless if its a girl or a guy it means nothing. 650332[/snapback] I am sure you could convince a whole lot of believers there where 12 hookers there. If not mistaken Jesus did stick up for the Hooker to keep her from getting stoned (stones thrown at her). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordgalyan Posted June 3, 2005 #55 Share Posted June 3, 2005 Maybe John was a cross dresser, or just like Davinci. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amalgamut Posted June 3, 2005 #56 Share Posted June 3, 2005 Or maybe.....DaVinci had the hots for John? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperactive Posted June 3, 2005 #57 Share Posted June 3, 2005 or maybe people just try way too hard to justify their beliefs, even when the subject in question is irrelevant (and irrelevant to an irrelevant event of an irrelevant belief structure).... it boggles the mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIDEON MAGE Posted June 4, 2005 #58 Share Posted June 4, 2005 what really gets weird is that john refers to himself as jsus's "beloved disciple"-apparently why he would be the effeminate one next to jsus-and, since da vionci was gay, he would have interpreted their relationship correctly.i always assumed that mary magdalene was his lover/wife, but obviously jsus was bisexual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Like Laughter Posted June 4, 2005 #59 Share Posted June 4, 2005 or da vinci represents John in a feminine manner typical of young men in art of the period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIDEON MAGE Posted June 4, 2005 #60 Share Posted June 4, 2005 young gay men, anyway, considering that the renaissance was pretty open-minded... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Like Laughter Posted June 4, 2005 #61 Share Posted June 4, 2005 (edited) why would they have to be gay? and what does it have to do with Jesus? da Vinci lived what, 1500 years later? Edited June 4, 2005 by Something Like Laughter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fahrenheit Posted June 6, 2005 #62 Share Posted June 6, 2005 My question is: why are they all sitting on the same side of the table? Are they stupid or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Like Laughter Posted June 6, 2005 #63 Share Posted June 6, 2005 My question is: why are they all sitting on the same side of the table? Are they stupid or something?is that a serious question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleIrishVampiress Posted June 7, 2005 #64 Share Posted June 7, 2005 i trully believe it was painted as a woman, not a womanly man, or young man painted as a woman. i mean, if it was just a young man, then why is it the only man who looks like a woman?? yes, men could be seen as feminine looking in the painting, but not even slightly as obviously feminine looking as the woman! but, it is just a painting, and by a man who loved controversy and causing a bit of a 'stir' so, i wouldn't take it seriously. he painted what he believed, or simply what he wanted others to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Fahrenheit Posted June 7, 2005 #65 Share Posted June 7, 2005 Yes it's a serious question. Why wouldn't anyone sit on the other side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIDEON MAGE Posted June 7, 2005 #66 Share Posted June 7, 2005 Yes it's a serious question. Why wouldn't anyone sit on the other side? 659816[/snapback] because it makes a better painting not to show backs of heads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leadbelly Posted June 7, 2005 #67 Share Posted June 7, 2005 A few opinions. First, John the Baptist was the youngest apostle. He was loved by Jesus, the Bible says. He was symbolic as the untamed, earthly spirituality, performing his youthful ministry in the outdoors of nature. Jesus is as the spiritual refinement counterpart, more profound. So, gender resemblance aside, I think it is meant to be a male. Some would say Leonardo was gay, and this was a tempered male figure. Why? It may have simply been a model. Nonetheless, he seems generic. And he serves to balance the colors on the right. His pastel robe (perhaps symbolic) reflects the light from the opposite wall. John Before Restoration John After Restoration Frescoe After Restoration This shows his talent for head portrature. These are well modeled. St. Anne And lastly, here is Raphael's School of Athens. The figures are all historical. The man up front on the marble block is Michelangelo. Behind, to his right, is a young male. It was to controversial to put in Hypatia of Alexandria (scientific thinker), so Rapahael used the a young nephew of the Pope. He hid his hands, to complete the illusion. On the far right is Raphael, in a cap. In the middle are Plato and Aristotle. School of Athens Perspective counts for everything. Leonardo looked at the wall, and created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caayn Posted June 7, 2005 #68 Share Posted June 7, 2005 Something I just thought about as I read through all this, and examined that excellent link to the up-close version of the painting....If the figure next to Jesus is in fact Mary, and the man holding the knife and gesturing at her throat is Peter, maybe some of you can see where I am going with this. Peter is "the rock", the one who founded the Catholic Church. Perhaps Da Vinci was implying that the Church was concealing the role of Mary, hence the threatening gestures towards her figure by Peter? I'm sure someone else thought of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Like Laughter Posted June 7, 2005 #69 Share Posted June 7, 2005 UniversalParadox: GM is right with the people all facing the same way. think to a resturant scene in a TV show. all the people are sitting on one side of the table, much of the same reasoning there. Caayn: im not absolutely certain that the man with the knife is Peter. ive seen that it was Judas in some places. i dont see why you think the gesture is threatening. leadbelly: John the Baptist had his head served on a silver platter (i think that is how the story goes) on the orders of one of Herod the Great's sons. the disciple John is completely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leadbelly Posted June 7, 2005 #70 Share Posted June 7, 2005 Right. John the Evangelist was a disciple of John the Baptist, but later became a disciple of Christ, along with Peter and Andrew. He lived to be quite old, and spent his last years in Ephesus, Ancient Turkey. Oh, now I see about the rulers named Herod. It was a powerful son who had a public affair, which was mentioned by John the Baptist, until the paramour asked for his head on a platter. She got it. Her name was Herodias- aka Salome. I attest, that I dislike mythology. I can read literature (poetry), but can not tolerate the true soap opera neurotic greek gods. This affects my desire to learn much about the Bible. My family is not oriented that way. Thank you. I have just learned something. And so, I found a nice website about Ephesus. Images of the World Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caayn Posted June 7, 2005 #71 Share Posted June 7, 2005 You don't think that gesture is threatening? Imagine a hand similar to that one traveling horizontally across the person's throat. It's the classic 'off with your head' gesture, and the fact that he is concealing a knife behind his back only makes it more menacing. Surely you see that, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zackery00 Posted June 7, 2005 #72 Share Posted June 7, 2005 Though this happened many many years ago, I believe that it is John next to Jesus. As the youngest, he would looked the most like a woman. And an added thing to think about... During Shakespears time, though much after Jesus's, and in his plays, no part ever went to a woman... as all parts that were female were played by young boys and feminine looking males... Just perhaps a correlation there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordgalyan Posted June 7, 2005 #73 Share Posted June 7, 2005 A few opinions. First, John the Baptist was the youngest apostle. He was loved by Jesus, the Bible says. He was symbolic as the untamed, earthly spirituality, performing his youthful ministry in the outdoors of nature. Jesus is as the spiritual refinement counterpart, more profound. Sounds like they were Pagans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walken Posted June 7, 2005 #74 Share Posted June 7, 2005 The dagger is being held by the man in the blue robe, leaning over to talk to John/Mary. It does not look like he is holding it, but look closely and you will see he is holding it, but with his hand backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIDEON MAGE Posted June 8, 2005 #75 Share Posted June 8, 2005 isn't it even more amazing that there are loaves of bread all over the table during passover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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