Push Bush on climate, Blair urged

[The Roswell Man]

Former environment minister Michael Meacher has urged prime minister Tony Blair to put pressure on US president George W Bush over climate change.

He said Mr Blair needed to call in the political goodwill Mr Bush owed him for the UK's support over Iraq.

He said the US could not rely on Britain's support if it "ignores their fundamental concerns".

Mr Blair flies to the US this week for talks with the US leader ahead of July's G8 meeting in Scotland.

'Strong ally'

"The US cannot count, despite its hegemony and its unique power, on the automatic support - even from close allies - if the US ignores their fundamental concerns," Mr Meacher told The World at One on BBC Radio 4.

"We have been a very strong, some of us think almost too subservient, an ally over recent years and it's time, I think, for the political goodwill which has been generated by our support to be called in."

It's a question of how one gets the world's biggest economic power... to take a different view

Michael Meacher, former environment minister

Mr Bush has consistently questioned the need for quick action on climate change, and the US has not yet ratified the Kyoto Protocol aimed at cutting down greenhouse gas emissions.

Mr Meacher said he believed Mr Blair was genuine in his attempts to try and tackle climate change, and that he should appeal to the self-interests of US industry.

"It's a question of how one gets the world's biggest economic power, which is in the Bush administration uniquely connected to the oil industry, to take a different view.

"There is a clean development mechanism for a huge new sweep of investment in developing countries and don't American companies want to be part of that?"

Mr Blair will be in the US capital on Monday and Tuesday.

Other issues to be discussed will be Africa, Iraq and the Middle East peace process.

Story from BBC NEWS:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/uk_p...ics/4611633.stm

Published: 2005/06/05 15:55:01 GMT

© BBC MMV

[Talon]

Problem is, Republicans are right-wing and so inherantly selfish. They are concerned only how to benifit themselves are the moment, not what state the planet will be in for their children. Profit first, everything else second.

[The Roswell Man]

thats capitalism for u .........

[Talon]

Luckily for us Europe leans to the centre-left.

[I am me]

Problem is, Republicans are right-wing and so inherantly selfish. They are concerned only how to benifit themselves are the moment, not what state the planet will be in for their children. Profit first, everything else second.

660344[/snapback]

no, politicians are inherantly selfish. it doesn't matter if they are right-winged or left-winged.

[I am me]

thats capitalism for u .........        

660359[/snapback]

capitalism works great when government doesn't restrict it or grant monopolies like it does to many companies.

[The Roswell Man]

Problem is, Republicans are right-wing and so inherantly selfish. They are concerned only how to benifit themselves are the moment, not what state the planet will be in for their children. Profit first, everything else second.

660344[/snapback]

no, politicians are inherantly selfish. it doesn't matter if they are right-winged or left-winged.

660435[/snapback]

u sure??

[The Roswell Man]

thats capitalism for u .........        

660359[/snapback]

capitalism works great when government doesn't restrict it or grant monopolies like it does to many companies.

660438[/snapback]

remember

big companies does the major arm twisting

they run evrything

[Talon]

no, politicians are inherantly selfish. it doesn't matter if they are right-winged or left-winged

Your making aggrate assumptions. You ingore that right-wing ideology is inherantly individualistic

capitalism works great when government doesn't restrict it or grant monopolies like it does to many companies.

Capitalism is the ideology of making capital, not sharing it as Socialism is. Therefore Capitalism is naturally not a friend of equality or anti-poverty movements.

[Babs]

I hope Blair can do this. We need to clean up the planet. I wish Bush would do something 'for' our environment.

I hope I didn't disappoint anyone with these views

[Talon]

I hope Blair can do this. We need to clean up the planet. I wish Bush would do something 'for' our environment.

I hope I didn't disappoint anyone with these views 

My god, Babs I'm actually surprised, I always had you pegged as one of these people you would cut down the entire rain forest for a dollar. I'm glad I was wrong.

[The Roswell Man]

I hope Blair can do this. We need to clean up the planet. I wish Bush would do something 'for' our environment.

I hope I didn't disappoint anyone with these views

660490[/snapback]

yes.

a fresh opinion

[I am me]

no, politicians are inherantly selfish. it doesn't matter if they are right-winged or left-winged

Your making aggrate assumptions. You ingore that right-wing ideology is inherantly individualistic

capitalism works great when government doesn't restrict it or grant monopolies like it does to many companies.

Capitalism is the ideology of making capital, not sharing it as Socialism is. Therefore Capitalism is naturally not a friend of equality or anti-poverty movements.

660451[/snapback]

you are making assumptions that all right wingers are horrible and left wingers are some wonderful gift to humanity. the thing with taxes and equality and all of this talk is that you are going to hurt somebody no matter what. you may feel all great that you helped some poor guy but you forced somebody to give up his possessions to help the poor guy. there are many middle class individuals that grind out month after month to pay the bills because a chunk of their paycheck goes towards taxes. socialism sounds like a wonderful thing, but look at all of the nations that were heavily socialistic, look at the quality of life, it is typically worse than that of a more free nation. the quality of life in the USA was so great because the market used to be free. freedom is what brings prosperity.

socialism is not sharing, it is being forced to live in a collective in the same way everyone else does. nobody is the same, but everybody is forced to live the same. the rocket scientist who might just invent the cure for aids gets paid the same amount as the retarded kid next door who can't put his clothes on by himself. of course this leads to apathy and people just not caring about what they do because they have no motivation to do their job. the quality of life goes down for everyone. then of course a true socialistic country will always fail economically because it will not know how to set prices on anything because a free market does not exist. the government cannot figure out how much of something to make and at what price to sell it at because it cannot judge supply and demand without a market to do it with. this was seen with the USSR before it fell apart. china is growing and prospering immensely because it is getting away from communism and becoming more free in terms of economic issues.

and the thing with poverty, it actually increases when you pour more money into it. people lose motivation to do anything with their life as all they have to do is walk to the mailbox once a month for their paycheck that i was forced to pay for. i guess i should feel great because somebody without a job gets to eat off of my dime right? i don't mind helping out people in need if and when i want to do so, but i become spiteful when i am forced to do it.

[Talon]

I'm sorry I am me, I have no interest in discussing Africa with someone who has shown no compassion for fellow human beings.

[Babs]

I love the trees and the forest and I hate pollution. I hate what Bush is doing to the environment or not doing, to help our environment, and save our planet.

[The Roswell Man]

I love the trees and the forest and I hate pollution. I hate what Bush is doing to the environment or not doing, to help our environment, and save our planet.

660535[/snapback]

are u a member of WWF per chance?

[Talon]

I love the trees and the forest and I hate pollution. I hate what Bush is doing to the environment or not doing, to help our environment, and save our planet.

I'd like to see some sort of program were the West could prove jobs in the Third World just by paying people to plant trees and regrow the rain forest. Given the average wage in the these countries, a pool set up by the west could do it and probably provide a good wage quite cheaply. I wouldn't mind either if the West got rid of their unemployed problem by hiring the unemployed masses to replant the forests on Europe and America. Despite being heavily populated there are massive stretches of land which could be redeveloped into forests, particularly given the decreasing rural population.

Edited June 7, 2005 by Talon S.

[The Roswell Man]

this will never happen because multinationals that are more interested in a quick profit have other ideas......

Edited June 7, 2005 by The Roswell Man

[Talon]

this will never because multinationals that are more interested in a quick profit have other ideas......   

True, replanting the rain forest doesn't earn money only proves jobs and saves the environment. Stripping down the rain forest however earns money and so will continue to happen until there's nothing left... and then what happens.

[Celumnaz]

True, replanting the rain forest doesn't earn money only proves jobs and saves the environment. Stripping down the rain forest however earns money and so will continue to happen until there's nothing left... and then what happens.

660558[/snapback]

So do both. I don't know how it'll provide jobs if nobody's going to pay them why would they work? How can they pay them if there's no money to pay them with? So it'll probably have to come out of the lumber industry to reseed... like we do here in the US...

you are making assumptions that all right wingers are horrible and left wingers are some wonderful gift to humanity.  the thing with taxes and equality and all of this talk is that you are going to hurt somebody no matter what.  you may feel all great that you helped some poor guy but you forced somebody to give up his possessions to help the poor guy.  there are many middle class individuals that grind out month after month to pay the bills because a chunk of their paycheck goes towards taxes.  socialism sounds like a wonderful thing, but look at all of the nations that were heavily socialistic, look at the quality of life, it is typically worse than that of a more free nation.  the quality of life in the USA was so great because the market used to be free.  freedom is what brings prosperity.

socialism is not sharing, it is being forced to live in a collective in the same way everyone else does.  nobody is the same, but everybody is forced to live the same.  the rocket scientist who might just invent the cure for aids gets paid the same amount as the retarded kid next door who can't put his clothes on by himself.  of course this leads to apathy and people just not caring about what they do because they have no motivation to do their job.  the quality of life goes down for everyone.  then of course a true socialistic country will always fail economically because it will not know how to set prices on anything because a free market does not exist.  the government cannot figure out how much of something to make and at what price to sell it at because it cannot judge supply and demand without a market to do it with.  this was seen with the USSR before it fell apart.  china is growing and prospering immensely because it is getting away from communism and becoming more free in terms of economic issues.

and the thing with poverty, it actually increases when you pour more money into it.  people lose motivation to do anything with their life as all they have to do is walk to the mailbox once a month for their paycheck that i was forced to pay for.  i guess i should feel great because somebody without a job gets to eat off of my dime right?  i don't mind helping out people in need if and when i want to do so, but i become spiteful when i am forced to do it.

660523[/snapback]

Right on!!

Edited June 7, 2005 by Celumnaz

[Talon]

So do both. I don't know how it'll provide jobs if nobody's going to pay them why would they work? How can they pay them if there's no money to pay them with? So it'll probably have to come out of the lumber industry to reseed... like we do here in the US...

Did you not read the bit were is quite clearly said "West could prove jobs in the Third World just by paying people to plant trees and regrow the rain forest"

Right on!!

Celumnaz your ignorance of politics is awe inspiring.

[The Roswell Man]

some americans like to stick together

[Babs]

I love the trees and the forest and I hate pollution. I hate what Bush is doing to the environment or not doing, to help our environment, and save our planet.

I'd like to see some sort of program were the West could prove jobs in the Third World just by paying people to plant trees and regrow the rain forest. Given the average wage in the these countries, a pool set up by the west could do it and probably provide a good wage quite cheaply. I wouldn't mind either if the West got rid of their unemployed problem by hiring the unemployed masses to replant the forests on Europe and America. Despite being heavily populated there are massive stretches of land which could be redeveloped into forests, particularly given the decreasing rural population.

660543[/snapback]

I would love to see this. That is a wonderful idea.

Bush is talking about less dependence on foreign oil, but he wants to drill up in Alaska, somewhere, which would destroy all the wildlife (in that area). The scientists and democrats are saying that he can drill off the coast of Florida and not hurt any wildlife, but it looks like that hasn't taken off .... (or has been put on the back burner). I wonder how Bush will do with the trees. I sincerely hope Blair can do something, it's real hard to get this administration moving on environmental issues.

[Talon]

Bush is talking about less dependence on foreign oil, but he wants to drill up in Alaska, somewhere, which would destroy all the wildlife (in that area).  The scientists and democrats are saying that he can drill off the coast of Florida and not hurt any wildlife, but it looks like that hasn't taken off .... (or has been put on the back burner). I wonder how Bush will do with the trees. I sincerely hope Blair can do something, it's real hard to get this administration moving on environmental issues.

Scary, especially with electric power on our doorstep, unfortunaletly that doesn't make a profit either so it'll never get used.

[Celumnaz]

Celumnaz your ignorance of politics is awe inspiring.

660666[/snapback]

I'm an inspiration! Great to be able to effect people like that. Any contribution I can make, happy to do it.

Did you not read the bit were is quite clearly said "West could prove jobs in the Third World just by paying people to plant trees and regrow the rain forest"

Your ignorance of economics is... expected, coming from a left ideology.