Erikl Posted June 11, 2005 #201 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Hi all... It would be great if we could all stick to the topic at hand and not wandering off into unrelated areas... Thanks 669284[/snapback] I'll try - but it's not my fault that there are some who don't know how to debate properly, and lead this thread into the wilderness of off-topicness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander CMG Posted June 11, 2005 #202 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Well I for one am upset that what could have been an interesting debate has been degraded by someone who jumps to insult anyone who presents their opinion. 669293[/snapback] You can not expect people to appolgise because they have a different oppionion to you, regardless how it may look or come across. So lets focus on the good debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ames2787 Posted June 11, 2005 #203 Share Posted June 11, 2005 I respect their opinion. I do not respect people saying that I called them a rapist. Pretty simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander CMG Posted June 11, 2005 #204 Share Posted June 11, 2005 I respect their opinion. I do not respect people saying that I called them a rapist. Pretty simple. 669297[/snapback] Well send him a PM or something but keep it off the board and allow others to join in the original discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeProphet Posted June 11, 2005 #205 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Well I for one am upset that what could have been an interesting debate has been degraded by someone who jumps to insult anyone who presents their opinion. Although I really hate to do so I apologize for me accusing you of accusing me to be a rapist.Í don t do it because I "changed my view",but in your case I think it s appropriate. I'll try - but it's not my fault that there are some who don't know how to debate properly, and lead this thread into the wilderness of off-topicness. I'll try - but it's not my fault that there are some who don't know how to debate properly, and lead this thread into the wilderness of off-topicness. Leave me alone now.I can t stop if you don t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander CMG Posted June 11, 2005 #206 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Please close this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffybunny Posted June 11, 2005 #207 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Hi all... It would be great if we could all stick to the topic at hand and not wandering off into unrelated areas... Thanks 669284[/snapback] I'll try - but it's not my fault that there are some who don't know how to debate properly, and lead this thread into the wilderness of off-topicness. 669295[/snapback] I never said it was your fault Erikl...it was just an observation in general that the thread was going the way of the dodo bird... Let's please steer it back towards pope/condoms/africa... Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erikl Posted June 11, 2005 #208 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Hi all... It would be great if we could all stick to the topic at hand and not wandering off into unrelated areas... Thanks 669284[/snapback] I'll try - but it's not my fault that there are some who don't know how to debate properly, and lead this thread into the wilderness of off-topicness. 669295[/snapback] I never said it was your fault Erikl...it was just an observation in general that the thread was going the way of the dodo bird... Let's please steer it back towards pope/condoms/africa... Thanks 669312[/snapback] How about large-scale local production in africa of condoms with the pope seal of approval on them all? j/k . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__Kratos__ Posted June 11, 2005 #209 Share Posted June 11, 2005 How does it prove your point? if anything, the fact that most islamic countries are third world dictatorships coupled with the known taboo about anything even related to sex in those countries, proves the claim I was raising (as a joke, obviously). Leave the muslims aside, the reason that they are in the situation they are today has nothing to do with this subject. That s an issue for another thread.Let s leave it at that.But so far ,noone has cared to prove me wrong. 669274[/snapback] Look sir. How do you expect to have a normal debate, if all you do is state the obvious, ignore people's thoughts and opinions, wrongly accuse other members, and opening issues that you have no wish to debate about? You entire line of debating lacks basic logic. If you won't explain youself, you're gonna lose us. I think I'm halfway lost by you anyhow.... 669290[/snapback] No kidding... I just read the last 14 pages of this thread (it was 13 when I started ) and Snake you really need to explain yourself better. Surely you don't have your hands on the side of your eyes blinding you from the rest of the world while you see what only you want to. I saw the topic of rape by a way of being infected. I believe it is every 3 seconds a women is raped in Africa. And as XSAS said they do live in those places. What do you really think Africa is like? The problem of rape over there is so bad, that the local police wouldn't do a thing about it. Granted sex isn't the only way to get HIV, it is the most common. To deny nature because of what one man says is to me stupid. Who is he to tell millions of Africans not to use condoms and not have sex? Here are some facts: More than 30 million people in Africa are living with HIV/AIDS. Every day, 5,000 Africans die of AIDS Every day 11,000 are infected with HIV Every day some 6,000 children are orphaned. Source Think how much that number could drop if just half of the sexual active people used a condom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander CMG Posted June 11, 2005 #210 Share Posted June 11, 2005 How does it prove your point? if anything, the fact that most islamic countries are third world dictatorships coupled with the known taboo about anything even related to sex in those countries, proves the claim I was raising (as a joke, obviously). Leave the muslims aside, the reason that they are in the situation they are today has nothing to do with this subject. That s an issue for another thread.Let s leave it at that.But so far ,noone has cared to prove me wrong. 669274[/snapback] Look sir. How do you expect to have a normal debate, if all you do is state the obvious, ignore people's thoughts and opinions, wrongly accuse other members, and opening issues that you have no wish to debate about? You entire line of debating lacks basic logic. If you won't explain youself, you're gonna lose us. I think I'm halfway lost by you anyhow.... 669290[/snapback] No kidding... I just read the last 14 pages of this thread (it was 13 when I started ) and Snake you really need to explain yourself better. Surely you don't have your hands on the side of your eyes blinding you from the rest of the world while you see what only you want to. I saw the topic of rape by a way of being infected. I believe it is every 3 seconds a women is raped in Africa. And as XSAS said they do live in those places. What do you really think Africa is like? The problem of rape over there is so bad, that the local police wouldn't do a thing about it. Granted sex isn't the only way to get HIV, it is the most common. To deny nature because of what one man says is to me stupid. Who is he to tell millions of Africans not to use condoms and not have sex? Here are some facts: More than 30 million people in Africa are living with HIV/AIDS. Every day, 5,000 Africans die of AIDS Every day 11,000 are infected with HIV Every day some 6,000 children are orphaned. Source Think how much that number could drop if just half of the sexual active people used a condom. 669331[/snapback] Why can't the Church see this though, maybe with the introduction of education these people will think for themselves, however it does not help the situation now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeProphet Posted June 11, 2005 #211 Share Posted June 11, 2005 No kidding... I just read the last 14 pages of this thread (it was 13 when I started ) and Snake you really need to explain yourself better. Surely you don't have your hands on the side of your eyes blinding you from the rest of the world while you see what only you want to. I saw the topic of rape by a way of being infected. I believe it is every 3 seconds a women is raped in Africa. And as XSAS said they do live in those places. What do you really think Africa is like? The problem of rape over there is so bad, that the local police wouldn't do a thing about it. Granted sex isn't the only way to get HIV, it is the most common. To deny nature because of what one man says is to me stupid. Who is he to tell millions of Africans not to use condoms and not have sex? Here are some facts: More than 30 million people in Africa are living with HIV/AIDS. Every day, 5,000 Africans die of AIDS Every day 11,000 are infected with HIV Every day some 6,000 children are orphaned. Source Think how much that number could drop if just half of the sexual active people used a condom. If you had really read the whole topic,you d know that I actually agree. And about the rape issue.Look again at my reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ames2787 Posted June 11, 2005 #212 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Thank you Kratos for that brilliant post. In one post you have brought the topic back and proved the point indefinitely. I fail to see how anyone can argue with these statistics and STILL condemn condom use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOriginalF Posted June 11, 2005 #213 Share Posted June 11, 2005 The simple fact of the matter is that people are going to have sex, it's an undeniable fact of our human existence. However I think that with something as dangerous HIV and AIDS floating about we should be teaching people to be extremely careful about who they have sex with, so I agree that preaching abstinence does have it's place. Unfortunately I don't think it's realistic to expect people to simply not have sex, which is why we need to to be teaching people about safe sex and giving them the knowledge of and access to condoms. If we continue to bury our heads in the sand about people actively engaging in sexual intercourse we will only help further the spread of AIDS. At the very least I would think we could all agree on the fact that educating people on every possible way of stopping the spread of this disease should be put into practice as often as possible, if that means we have to accept that people are going to engage in promiscuous sex than so be it. I would rather people at least use a condom than nothing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erikl Posted June 11, 2005 #214 Share Posted June 11, 2005 How does it prove your point? if anything, the fact that most islamic countries are third world dictatorships coupled with the known taboo about anything even related to sex in those countries, proves the claim I was raising (as a joke, obviously). Leave the muslims aside, the reason that they are in the situation they are today has nothing to do with this subject. That s an issue for another thread.Let s leave it at that.But so far ,noone has cared to prove me wrong. 669274[/snapback] Look sir. How do you expect to have a normal debate, if all you do is state the obvious, ignore people's thoughts and opinions, wrongly accuse other members, and opening issues that you have no wish to debate about? You entire line of debating lacks basic logic. If you won't explain youself, you're gonna lose us. I think I'm halfway lost by you anyhow.... 669290[/snapback] No kidding... I just read the last 14 pages of this thread (it was 13 when I started ) and Snake you really need to explain yourself better. Surely you don't have your hands on the side of your eyes blinding you from the rest of the world while you see what only you want to. I saw the topic of rape by a way of being infected. I believe it is every 3 seconds a women is raped in Africa. And as XSAS said they do live in those places. What do you really think Africa is like? The problem of rape over there is so bad, that the local police wouldn't do a thing about it. Granted sex isn't the only way to get HIV, it is the most common. To deny nature because of what one man says is to me stupid. Who is he to tell millions of Africans not to use condoms and not have sex? Here are some facts: More than 30 million people in Africa are living with HIV/AIDS. Every day, 5,000 Africans die of AIDS Every day 11,000 are infected with HIV Every day some 6,000 children are orphaned. Source Think how much that number could drop if just half of the sexual active people used a condom. 669331[/snapback] Yes but condoms aren't a solution for a culture of rape. Maybe the church should use it's influence over people's thoughts to make them realise how serious rape is down there, by improving the official position of the church regarding women's rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffybunny Posted June 11, 2005 #215 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Hi all... It would be great if we could all stick to the topic at hand and not wandering off into unrelated areas... Thanks 669284[/snapback] I'll try - but it's not my fault that there are some who don't know how to debate properly, and lead this thread into the wilderness of off-topicness. 669295[/snapback] I never said it was your fault Erikl...it was just an observation in general that the thread was going the way of the dodo bird... Let's please steer it back towards pope/condoms/africa... Thanks 669312[/snapback] How about large-scale local production in africa of condoms with the pope seal of approval on them all? j/k . 669330[/snapback] Wow... You are hired... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander CMG Posted June 11, 2005 #216 Share Posted June 11, 2005 How does it prove your point? if anything, the fact that most islamic countries are third world dictatorships coupled with the known taboo about anything even related to sex in those countries, proves the claim I was raising (as a joke, obviously). Leave the muslims aside, the reason that they are in the situation they are today has nothing to do with this subject. That s an issue for another thread.Let s leave it at that.But so far ,noone has cared to prove me wrong. 669274[/snapback] Look sir. How do you expect to have a normal debate, if all you do is state the obvious, ignore people's thoughts and opinions, wrongly accuse other members, and opening issues that you have no wish to debate about? You entire line of debating lacks basic logic. If you won't explain youself, you're gonna lose us. I think I'm halfway lost by you anyhow.... 669290[/snapback] No kidding... I just read the last 14 pages of this thread (it was 13 when I started ) and Snake you really need to explain yourself better. Surely you don't have your hands on the side of your eyes blinding you from the rest of the world while you see what only you want to. I saw the topic of rape by a way of being infected. I believe it is every 3 seconds a women is raped in Africa. And as XSAS said they do live in those places. What do you really think Africa is like? The problem of rape over there is so bad, that the local police wouldn't do a thing about it. Granted sex isn't the only way to get HIV, it is the most common. To deny nature because of what one man says is to me stupid. Who is he to tell millions of Africans not to use condoms and not have sex? Here are some facts: More than 30 million people in Africa are living with HIV/AIDS. Every day, 5,000 Africans die of AIDS Every day 11,000 are infected with HIV Every day some 6,000 children are orphaned. Source Think how much that number could drop if just half of the sexual active people used a condom. 669331[/snapback] Yes but condoms aren't a solution for a culture of rape. Maybe the church should use it's influence over people's thoughts to make them realise how serious rape is down there, by improving the official position of the church regarding women's rights. 669347[/snapback] No it won't solve the rape problem but it is a start at lowering the spread of Aids, I don't know the answer to solving rape no one does especially in African countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erikl Posted June 11, 2005 #217 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Speaking of which - this year alone, 4.3-6.4 million people got infected . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander CMG Posted June 11, 2005 #218 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Speaking of which - this year alone, 4.3-6.4 million people got infected . 669360[/snapback] frightening and if the Church could do something about this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeProphet Posted June 11, 2005 #219 Share Posted June 11, 2005 It s obvious that the African government can t handle it on their own,as they weren t able to deal with their mercenary problem so far.Once the mercenaries,rebels etc are out of Africa and a solid foundation for a real government can be made,the AIDS will be dealt with easily. In this case it d be best to fight fire with fire.Hire PMCs to deal with the existing rebel groups and mercenaries and it propably could lead to a government which is able to effectivly deal with the AIDS problem. So far,I don t know how a church can "forbid" the use of condoms, so the church shoudln t be a problem in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ames2787 Posted June 11, 2005 #220 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Everyone who is involved with this and agrees with the Pope in my opinion has the death of these poor people on their hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander CMG Posted June 11, 2005 #221 Share Posted June 11, 2005 It s obvious that the African government can t handle it on their own,as they weren t able to deal with their mercenary problem so far.Once the mercenaries,rebels etc are out of Africa and a solid foundation for a real government can be made,the AIDS will be dealt with easily. In this case it d be best to fight fire with fire.Hire PMCs to deal with the existing rebel groups and mercenaries and it propably could lead to a government which is able to effectivly deal with the AIDS problem. So far,I don t know how a church can "forbid" the use of condoms, so the church shoudln t be a problem in this case. 669372[/snapback] The church is the problem because it's followers do has they are told by the church, therefore it is the Church and their stance on this belief that is condeming it's hardened believers to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__Kratos__ Posted June 11, 2005 #222 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Speaking of which - this year alone, 4.3-6.4 million people got infected . No it won't solve the rape problem but it is a start at lowering the spread of Aids, I don't know the answer to solving rape no one does especially in African countries. 669360[/snapback] Actually I think it was on Dateline or 20/20 (one of those shows ) they showed villages not even bothering with the police anymore. They just hold the rapist down and let the family and the victim have a couple rounds at him. After that you would think they would be smart enough to keep it in their pants if they hear the word "NO". The real problem is the police that sit back and do nothing about it. But how do you get a bunch of guys that haven't cared ever, to switch back to tell them it is wrong? You could go in there and fire them all, and replace them all with new cops, that are educated in the field but that is a step the goverment would have to take. 4.3 - 6.4 people infected... that would be like EVERY single person in Wisconsin getting HIV... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Posted June 11, 2005 #223 Share Posted June 11, 2005 I have to say that I think it's absolutely shocking that someone who is supposed to value all human life i.e. a religious leader can be so close minded about the awful reality of the situation in Africa. Further more, I am a great believer in what is known as 'herd immunity'. Does the Pope have no idea about the consequences of a generalised AIDS outbreak? Okay, using a condom may prevent a new human life being made, but where is the evil in preventing a mass outbreak of a disease that has the potential to seriously deplete the world's population? How many babies that are born as a result of not using condoms will be exposed to AIDS and what is the point in making a life if it will soon be taken away by such a truly awful disease? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeProphet Posted June 11, 2005 #224 Share Posted June 11, 2005 The church is the problem because it's followers do has they are told by the church, therefore it is the Church and their stance on this belief that is condeming it's hardened believers to death. Now that s a problem.But if the people choose to believe the church then we should let them.Otherwise it would be reversed preaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted June 11, 2005 #225 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Thank you Snake...a solid and forthright stand with your opinion well stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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