Would you believe...

[saucy]

As a lot of skeptics know, the Christians have been talking about the rapture for a LONG time. If today you turned on the news to hear that millions of people have disappeared, leaving all their clothes behind, would you suddenly believe in God or would you chalk it up to aliens or some other event? What if you then did a little research to find out that everyone who was missing was Christian?

[Fluffybunny]

Although I personally think it is a myth like the rest of the myths associated with it, I would get a kick out of seeing a bunch of people whisked away...leaving their clothes...and wallets...and car keys behind....

Sounds like fun...

As an added bonus, it would end a good portion of the repeated bickering back and forth on the forum here...

[whitewitch]

Hi!

I dont believe in christianity, (although I believe Jesus was a real person.) I dont believe 'aliens' visit this planet. I would asume that some strange suicide pact had been agreed upon by a mind altering new religion, and that the bodies of the missing people would turn up somewhere (in a mass grave, gas chamber etc), like they usually do when some religious leader or meglomaniac dictator starts to get too big for their boots.

[saucy]

Wow, that's interesting. Millions, maybe even a billion people agreed on a wacko suicide pact?

[hyperactive]

why not, millions agree on whacko religion!

[aquatus1]

Personally, I consider the Rapture to be a hoax, so the disappearance of millions of Christians would cause me some consternation. Since the Rapture is the most obvious explanation for such an event, and if I was unable to find any other, I would both be forced into the conclusion that God exists and that the Bible is not a reliable accounting of His personality.

Which is not to say I wouldn't stop looking for an alternate explanation.

[CROR]

if around 1 billion people disappeared with no warning and no clues i would seriously take notice and begin to question religion (as being right) i would take that event as a significant one and enough to start serious investigations and probe accordingly.

however that will not happen ever (IMO)

[hyperactive]

sorry.

after all the incorrect predictions and claims, i would not believe the christian rapture occured just because millions of people disappeared. since they are always claiming it is iminant, they eventually have to 1: either have something happen to meet their expectations or 2: the religion dies off without any matching event.

[CROR]

i never ever think that such a thing could happen,

but a good scientist/reasoned person does specify conditions in which he would believe a hypothesis and if there is no convincing to religion in any way (given any senarios) I would classify that as stubborn (im not calling you stubborn btw).

i must accept that i would (and i think we all should) accept that given certain criteria you would become religious (it would have to be a hell of a lot of concrete evidence though) if not then that is a shame as it is clearly a biased view

the probability of 1 billion people disappearing with no clues or any trace i deem significant results to investaigate the reconclusion of a previous hypothesis. as i would any claim for anything....

....that is good science :-)

[hyperactive]

yes, it would require research into the cause of the 'disappearance'.

however, without evidence no conclusion can be drawn. just because one old text has a story about such an event (that is not detailed) does not mean one should jump on it 'because it fits'.

actually, i am more 'religious' (in the correct origins of the word) than you could ever guess, and a big part of that is the rigid application of reasoning to and the questioning of everything.

[CROR]

no i dont mean to suggest i would become a believer in said prophecy, but i would consider it as a statistical significance that demanded a rational explanation.

To be honest rekligion would seem a very rational explanation if said event occured similar to if a giant face in teh sky appeared and said to everyone i am god. not total proof but significant enough to warrant a re assessment of hypothesis

[EmpressV]

First I think that the number of christians in the world are dwindling so there wouldn't be as many missing as you'd think. Second I agree that something would be amiss such as trickery on the part of some religious fanatic or they were scared off by some natural disaster. Not a rapture.

[zandore]

As an added bonus, it would end a good portion of the repeated bickering back and forth on the forum here... 

[CROR]

As an added bonus, it would end a good portion of the repeated bickering back and forth on the forum here... 

669673[/snapback]

thats what this forum is for! or do i misunderstand the Spirituality vs Skepticism title

[zandore]

As an added bonus, it would end a good portion of the repeated bickering back and forth on the forum here... 

669673[/snapback]

thats what this forum is for! or do i misunderstand the Spirituality vs Skepticism title

669690[/snapback]

That is what this section is for.

[aquatus1]

As a lot of skeptics know, the Christians have been talking about the rapture for a LONG time.

669264[/snapback]

Really, it hasn't been all that long, relatively. The concept of the Rapture didn't get started till, what, around 1830 by the British evangelical guy, John Nelson Darby. That's, 175 years, out of several thousand the judeo-christian religion has been around? Heck, even then, it was just a story until the 1909 publication of the Scofield Reference Bible (King James Version), which specifically mentioned an "air passage". So the official, documented, Rature is less than a hundred years old.

I still think the whole idea is completely out of character for God. Since when has He ever handed out freebies? Anyone who has ever gotten anything from God has always had to go to hell and back (figuratively speaking) beforehand.

Edited June 11, 2005 by aquatus1

[DoorMat]

(note: I am a christian and am not trying to force any beliefs on you.)

aquatus,

What about the garden of eden? freebie(technically)

Bringing Jesus here to pay for our sins? Basically freebie.

I'm not saying that I take everything as a freebie, just trying to show a different point of view.

I can agree that God makes us work for the things we ask for sometimes, But he always grants us with gifts of some kind.

[aquatus1]

(note: I am a christian and am not trying to force any beliefs on you.)

aquatus,

What about the garden of eden? freebie(technically)

How so? A suppose you could argue that the garden was a reward, but then I would have to ask what it was a reward for.

Bringing Jesus here to pay for our sins? Basically freebie.

Couple of things here. First off, I'm talking about individuals. God doesn't reward anyone without getting his pound of flesh. Jesus most certainly gave his.

Secondly, who follows this belief (you'll agree with me, I hope, that this isn't a universal judeo-christian belief? The Rapture followers believe that Jesus died for our sins, therefore we get a freebie. There's a conflict of interest there: the two beliefs, out of necessity, must go hand in hand.

I'm not saying that I take everything as a freebie, just trying to show a different point of view.

I can agree that God makes us work for the things we ask for sometimes, But he always grants us with gifts of some kind.

669905[/snapback]

I am certainly open to the idea of God giving freebies, however I have yet to see an example of it.

[+Paranoid Android]

I don't believe in the Rapture - that is to say, an event where millions of people will suddenly and inexplicably disappear. The information about this so called "Rapture" you can find in the book of Revelation: a highly symbollic book which absolutely cannot be taken literally.

My belief (also based on interpretations of Revelations) is that we are living in the end-times now, and Jesus has conquered Satan and bound him already through his defeat of the Devil on the cross. And one day (maybe tomorrow, maybe another ten thousand years - we just do not, and will not, ever know) Jesus will return again, and *poof* end of the world.

Of course, the Rapture is one interpretation (albeit in my mind a very unlikely one) of Revelation and, while as I said I don't believe it will occur, if it ever does, I would like to think that I would be one of the ones disappearing.

Either way, this does not impact on my life and as I always say regarding things like this, it should be left only to the realms of intellectual discourse and should not be the basis for one's faith.

Until next time,

EDIT - erroneous information deleted

Edited June 12, 2005 by BFG

[Fluffybunny]

First I think that the number of christians in the world are dwindling so there wouldn't be as many missing as you'd think. Second I agree that something would be amiss such as trickery on the part of some religious fanatic or they were scared off by some natural disaster. Not a rapture.

669580[/snapback]

I would have to carry a camera around with me in the event the rapture did actually happened, to get great photos of the people who smugly presumed that they would get whisked away, but yet for whatever reason they did not make the cut (Perhaps god grades on a curve and folks like Billy Graham have really skewed the curve to levels of devotion that the average christian couldn't hope to attain).

Can you imagine the look on the face of your uptight condescending neigbor when they realised they had missed the bus(so to speak)?

I've never been one for "I told you so", but I don't think that I could help myself at that point...I would muster my best impression of Nelson from the Simpsons; point and simultaneously yell "HA HA, your annoying presumption backfired; you weren't the chosen one after all..."

[+joc]

There is no scriptural basis for The Rapture. One has to jump through hoops to get there. The fact is thus: Jesus was murdered...everyone of His Apostles were murdered..(with the exception of Judas who hung himself). Christians throughout history have been persecuted and murdered.

But today's modern Christians don't want to be persecuted and murdered for their beliefs...

....when the going gets tough...the Christians get to leave........

....I don't think so.....

[zandore]

..(with the exception of Judas who hung himself)

Hmm....

Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

[saucy]

Actually, the rapture has been the idea for 2,000 years. Even the disciples thought it was going to happen in their lifetime. It's always been in the bible, but it wasn't re-discovered until that date.

Actually, you guys are fulfilling bible propehcy and don't even know it. The bible says that in the end times there will be many scoffers. I can repeat this until I am blue in the face, but it does no good. NO MAN will know when the rapture will happen. The bible clearly states this. Just because man has repeatedly gotten it wrong doesn't mean crap. The fact that the bible says there will be many scoffers actually points that it will be a long time before it actually happens.

Also the rapture couldn't have happened until 1968 anyways because a prophecy says that Israel will have to be back in the land of Palestine and the desert will bloom like a flower...etc...etc...etc...Those are prophecies that are recently being fulfilled. Anyone been to Israel lately? The desert is blooming!

[Neo2005]

I still wouldn;t believe.

Although i'd be fighting whatever is trying to destroy us.

[aquatus1]

Actually, the rapture has been the idea for 2,000 years.  Even the disciples thought it was going to happen in their lifetime.  It's always been in the bible, but it wasn't re-discovered until that date.

Ah, yes, the prophecy made by Jesus that never came to pass. So, what you are saying is that, for 1825 years, pretty much the entire judeo-christian community had it wrong?

Actually, you guys are fulfilling bible propehcy and don't even know it.  The bible says that in the end times there will be many scoffers.  I can repeat this until I am blue in the face, but it does no good.  NO MAN will know when the rapture will happen.  The bible clearly states this.  Just because man has repeatedly gotten it wrong doesn't mean crap.  The fact that the bible says there will be many scoffers actually points that it will be a long time before it actually happens. 

Heck, there have always been many scoffers. There will always be many scoffers. There were scoffers when Noah was around, there were scoffers when Jesus was around, there were scoffers when Pope John Paul made his debut, and there are scoffers today. Bible prophecy? Heck, it might as well say "It'll rain that weekend."

Also the rapture couldn't have happened until 1968 anyways because a prophecy says that Israel will have to be back in the land of Palestine and the desert will bloom like a flower...etc...etc...etc...Those are prophecies that are recently being fulfilled.  Anyone been to Israel lately?  The desert is blooming!

671856[/snapback]

Yeah, these things happened. Sure, maybe the end of the world is nigh. I still have no reason to believe God is going to pull all the good little Christians out before it gets underway.

If the rapture occured, I would have to re-evaluate God's modus operandi. It would go completly against everything that he has shown Himself to be in the past.