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saucy

Would you believe...

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Amalgamut
Only if it involves something sexual.

675376[/snapback]

wow that was freaking hilarious... rolleyes.gif

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aquatus1
Are you sure your Bible quote is accurate.  THis comes from Matthew 24:17-35, not Matthew 16:15-31.

No, I got the number wrong. My bad.

That aside, many of those signs were fulfilled (obvious one being the eclipse during Jesus crucifixion).

Wait, are we in agreement that he was talking about the "end of the age"? I mean, it's pretty clear that they were talking about that: 3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. Verse 3: "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

So he is describing what is going to happen at the end. Not during his crucifixion, but at the end of all time (hence the angels coming down with him).

But more importantly, reading further on.

Matthew 24:36-44

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

    "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him

No one knows when these things will take place.  It will be when no one expects it.

How does any of that conflict with Verse 34: "I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened"? Sure, we don't know the day, or the hour, but it sure as heck is happening before this generation is gone.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.  The people whom he appears to do not jump around.  Jesus appears in different places, but not the people who see him.  What's confusing about that?

Jesus didn't go country hopping after he resurrected. He didn't blink in one place and out another. He was, for all intents and purposes, the same way he had been before. There was nothing magical to him just yet, not until he went up to heaven the second time. Because of this, we should expect consistent account of his actions, not multiple sighting all over the place.

Edited by aquatus1

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Paranoid Android
Wait, are we in agreement that he was talking about the "end of the age"?  I mean, it's pretty clear that they were talking about that: 3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. Verse 3:  "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

So he is describing what is going to happen at the end.  Not during his crucifixion, but at the end of all time (hence the angels coming down with him).

The Greek isn't as clear as the Enlighs translation makes it sound. End of THE age, can mean "end of AN age" just as well.

When Jesus died on the cross, it spelt the end of sin's ultimate hold on mankind through His saving blood. I'm sure you'll disagree, but that is, quite literally an end to the age of sin.

How does any of that conflict with Verse 34:  "I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened"?  Sure, we don't know the day, or the hour, but it sure as heck is happening before this generation is gone.

As i said, these signs were all fulfilled, either at the transfiguration, the cross, the resurrection..... Shall I continue?

Jesus didn't go country hopping after he resurrected.  He didn't blink in one place and out another.  He was, for all intents and purposes, the same way he had been before.  There was nothing magical to him just yet, not until he went up to heaven the second time.  Because of this, we should expect consistent account of his actions, not multiple sighting all over the place.

And where are you getting this information from? Jesus rose from the dead, how can he be "for all intents and purposes, the same way he had been before"?

It's bleeding obvious that he has to be different.

Edited by BFG

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aquatus1
The Greek isn't as clear as the Enlighs translation makes it sound. End of THE age, can mean "end of AN age" just as well.

When Jesus died on the cross, it spelt the end of sin's ultimate hold on mankind through His saving blood. I'm sure you'll disagree, but that is, quite literally an end to the age of sin.

So verses 26-27 mean what? "At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens."

Jesus made it clear that this is what would happen at the end of all the hoopla. It doesn't sound like he is talking about walking out of a grave; it sounds like the final countdown. Why would angels be gathering the elect during at this time?

As i said, these signs were all fulfilled, either at the transfiguration, the cross, the resurrection..... Shall I continue?

If all these signs were fulfilled, and the passage is talking about the end of time, then the prophecy was wrong. It would seem that everything hinges on what the passage is talking about, and again I point out that the passage has made many references to things that would not happen unless the world was ending. Not an new age dawning, but the end of all time.

And where are you getting this information from? Jesus rose from the dead, how can he be "for all intents and purposes, the same way he had been before"?

It's bleeding obvious that he has to be different.

You would think so, wouldn't you? You would think that rising from the grave would give one permission to assume all sorts of magical powers.

I tend to think of that as the Hollywood effect, though. What impressed people back in the day wouldn't even catch our interest today. Back then , the ressurection was such a powerful event it defined the most powerful religious movement in history. Today, David Blaine spends forty days encased in a glass coffin and people clap politely when its over.

The bible simply does not support Jesus doing anything special after he was resurrected. At least, nothing he hadn't done before. And, before he was killed, he was, for all intents and purposes, a human. He didn't go popping and levitating to heaven.

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Paranoid Android
Jesus made it clear that this is what would happen at the end of all the hoopla.  It doesn't sound like he is talking about walking out of a grave; it sounds like the final countdown.  Why would angels be gathering the elect during at this time?

I guess this is a difference of opinion because I don't see it as such.

If all these signs were fulfilled, and the passage is talking about the end of time, then the prophecy was wrong.  It would seem that everything hinges on what the passage is talking about, and again I point out that the passage has made many references to things that would not happen unless the world was ending.  Not an new age dawning, but the end of all time.

Again, opinionated difference. Nothing more. I believe from the scriptures that it supports something different.

You would think so, wouldn't you?  You would think that rising from the grave would give one permission to assume all sorts of magical powers.

I tend to think of that as the Hollywood effect, though.  What impressed people back in the day wouldn't even catch our interest today.  Back then , the ressurection was such a powerful event it defined the most powerful religious movement in history.  Today, David Blaine spends forty days encased in a glass coffin and people clap politely when its over.

The bible simply does not support Jesus doing anything special after he was resurrected.  At least, nothing he hadn't done before.  And, before he was killed, he was, for all intents and purposes, a human.  He didn't go popping and levitating to heaven.

But He was obviously different. After Jesus resurrection, he appears to Thomas. Read John 20:27 - "Then he (Jesus) said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe"

One would make the conclusion that a live person would not have a hole in his side or his hands. Thus this makes Jesus special

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Consummate Deist
I believe from the scriptures that it supports something different.

Sorry to butt in on your debate, but as I understand, at the end of the world, Jesus will return and found God's Kingdom, a new Earth with the holy city as it's capital. Does not sound like a end of an age to me - cCD thumbsup.gif

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aquatus1
I guess this is a difference of opinion because I don't see it as such.

...

Again, opinionated difference.  Nothing more.  I believe from the scriptures that it supports something different. 

Then you have an explanation as to why, at that time, the son of god would descend, and angels would go forth to gather the elect? How is that not indicative of the end of time? When else would it happen?

But He was obviously different.  After Jesus resurrection, he appears to Thomas.  Read John 20:27 - "Then he (Jesus) said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe"

One would make the conclusion that a live person would not have a hole in his side or his hands.  Thus this makes Jesus special

677899[/snapback]

Obviously? He was alive, and that was certainly different than they expected. Heck, the verse you quote is Jesus showing others how normal he is (they probably thought he was a spook). And having holes in various body parts would be more common than not, back in those days. Jesus was alive, and that was all that was needed to make him special. Heck, we even assume he was clean, even though there is no biblical backing of that either. If we can't even figure that out, we are a far step away from claiming he could appear at will to some and not to others, and pop in and out of different locations in the land.

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