Royals cost Britain £37m a year

[warden]

Who are you refering to when you say YOU

[Erikl]

That goes to everybody Erikle not just you,if it keeps going of line this thread will be closed

697598[/snapback]

Nah I don't think it should be addressed to anyone here besides Blackleaf.

And you warden of all people - if you agree with Blackleaf's articles, and wish to see him around here, should explain to him that his behaviour is unacceptable, not just by me, but by a big group of older and newer members here.

[Commander CMG]

For goodness sake what the hell are you 2 ranting on about, all your doing is working towards getting a thread closed if you keep up with this crap?

Edited June 25, 2005 by XSAS

[Erikl]

For goodness sake what the hell are you 2 ranting on about, all your doing is getting a getting a thread closed if you keep up with this crap?

697608[/snapback]

I agree, hence why that was a last warning to Blackleaf.

Next time I'll just PM to one of the mods.

I'm terribly sorry no one has done so before me, which is why we had to put up with this guy this long.

[Commander CMG]

The mods are all aware of everything that goes on here and I am sure they know the score but lets keep focused on the topic here? PM each other with your insults but don't do your dirty laundry on a public board, it spoils it for the rest of us?

Back on topic.

[warden]

Another thing the royal s do is open up new buildings that are run by charitable organiseations,many people donate to these charitys because a certain royal is connected to it,without this some of these buildings would not get of the ground

[Rachael]

Did you guys know that The Royal Family carry two genetic deadly diseases - Prothera (spelling?) and Hemophilia!!!!

So much for blue blood.

BTW interesting info on the Federation etc..... Blackleaf - I will read more about that.

Cheers.

[warden]

Did you guys know that The Royal Family carry two genetic deadly diseases - Prothera (spelling?) and Hemophilia!!!!

So much for blue blood.

BTW interesting info on the Federation etc..... Blackleaf - I will read more about that.

Cheers.

700118[/snapback]

And

I carry two credit cards

[renton]

I carry two credit cards

700941[/snapback]

I've just come across this thread and I’d like to address a few points made.

Firstly, there is absolutely no evidence that the royals have a significant effect on tourism in the UK. Attractions connected with the current royal family account for around half of 1% of the total tourism in the UK.

1. Lego Land, Windsor, attracts 600,000 more tourists per year than Windsor Castle.

2. The British Museum attracts twice as many tourists than all the royal palaces combined.

3. The London Eye attracts around four times as many visitors per year as any royal palace.

4. There is not one royal palace is in the top 15 central London tourist attractions.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/STATBASE/xsdataset.asp?More=Y

Secondly, the ‘value for money’ argument doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

From the BBC website:

“The royal family's security - which usually costs around £30m a year - is looked after by SO14, the Metropolitan Police's Protection Squad, sometimes described by their Special Branch rivals as "butlers with guns".”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1760069.stm

So, on top of the £30+ million Civil List you can add another £30 million security.

Compare that with the cost for the head of state in the UK’s two nearest neighbours:

Ireland –

Office of the Secretary to the President:

salaries and wages, £376,000

Travel and subsistence, £156,000

Incidentals, £15,000

Postal and telecommunications services, £62,000

Office machinery and supplies, £41,000

Centenarians' Bounty £35,000

Other departments (the Taoiseach (Prime Minister), Public Works, Garda Síochána, efence, Foreign Affairs) are allocated funds which are linked to the President's Office, £1,715,000

Total £2.1 million

(Source: Cultural Attaché, Irish Embassy)

France

The French president is elected for seven years, nominally appoints the prime minister and has to approve ministerial appointments. He is in charge of foreign policy, is head of the military, conducts weekly cabinet meetings, can dissolve parliament and call elections and referendums

The president is paid £46,000 a year and also receives £595,260 for the upkeep of the Elysee Palace, £781,990 for personal staff, £345,971 for travel costs and £196,208 to meet the costs of the car pool: He has the use of several chateaux. He is also entitled to free accommodation, a car, a chauffeur, a bodyguard and two secretaries. On retirement, he receives a civil service-linked pension of £34,123 a

year and can take senior governmental or official jobs.

Total of £1.96 million.

(Source: French Embassy, London)

Finally, charities.

There is not one charity with the royal prefix in the top ten income generating charities in the UK, and only two in the top twenty five. And the Princes Trust, (often touted as a fine example of how crucial the royals are for UK charities) can’t even crawl into the top 70.

http://www.charitiesdirect.com/ind_i000.asp

[warden]

I carry two credit cards

700941[/snapback]

I've just come across this thread and I’d like to address a few points made.

Firstly, there is absolutely no evidence that the royals have a significant effect on tourism in the UK. Attractions connected with the current royal family account for around half of 1% of the total tourism in the UK.

1. Lego Land, Windsor, attracts 600,000 more tourists per year than Windsor Castle.

2. The British Museum attracts twice as many tourists than all the royal palaces combined.

3. The London Eye attracts around four times as many visitors per year as any royal palace.

4. There is not one royal palace is in the top 15 central London tourist attractions.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/STATBASE/xsdataset.asp?More=Y

Secondly, the ‘value for money’ argument doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

From the BBC website:

“The royal family's security - which usually costs around £30m a year - is looked after by SO14, the Metropolitan Police's Protection Squad, sometimes described by their Special Branch rivals as "butlers with guns".”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1760069.stm

So, on top of the £30+ million Civil List you can add another £30 million security.

Compare that with the cost for the head of state in the UK’s two nearest neighbours:

Ireland –

Office of the Secretary to the President:

salaries and wages, £376,000

Travel and subsistence, £156,000

Incidentals, £15,000

Postal and telecommunications services, £62,000

Office machinery and supplies, £41,000

Centenarians' Bounty £35,000

Other departments (the Taoiseach (Prime Minister), Public Works, Garda Síochána, efence, Foreign Affairs) are allocated funds which are linked to the President's Office, £1,715,000

Total £2.1 million

(Source: Cultural Attaché, Irish Embassy)

France

The French president is elected for seven years, nominally appoints the prime minister and has to approve ministerial appointments. He is in charge of foreign policy, is head of the military, conducts weekly cabinet meetings, can dissolve parliament and call elections and referendums

The president is paid £46,000 a year and also receives £595,260 for the upkeep of the Elysee Palace, £781,990 for personal staff, £345,971 for travel costs and £196,208 to meet the costs of the car pool: He has the use of several chateaux. He is also entitled to free accommodation, a car, a chauffeur, a bodyguard and two secretaries. On retirement, he receives a civil service-linked pension of £34,123 a

year and can take senior governmental or official jobs.

Total of £1.96 million.

(Source: French Embassy, London)

Finally, charities.

There is not one charity with the royal prefix in the top ten income generating charities in the UK, and only two in the top twenty five. And the Princes Trust, (often touted as a fine example of how crucial the royals are for UK charities) can’t even crawl into the top 70.

http://www.charitiesdirect.com/ind_i000.asp

707354[/snapback]

You have not finished yet ,you missed out the thousands of jobs in britain that depend on the royal family

Nice to see you got your figures from the gov and bbc,good job i wasnt wanting stats for a tory post

[Commander CMG]

Welcome to UM renton.

[warden]

Welcome to UM renton.

707430[/snapback]

Wasnt that name out of trainspoting

[renton]

 

 

You have not finished yet ,you missed out the thousands of jobs in britain that depend on the royal family 

 

707372[/snapback]

 

What jobs do you think would be lost - specifically? Those jobs required to maintain the residences will still be needed. Indeed, with the former royal residences being able to open full time without having to take into account the accommodation needs of this family, the employment opportunities would increase in number.

The jobs likely to be taken off the backs of the taxpayer will be the ones that deal exclusively with the individual members of the family, such as toothpaste tube squeezers and urine sample bottle holders. Those positions will either be lost or the Windsors, can employ them in a private capacity.

[warden]

 

 

You have not finished yet ,you missed out the thousands of jobs in britain that depend on the royal family 

 

707372[/snapback]

 

What jobs do you think would be lost - specifically? Those jobs required to maintain the residences will still be needed. Indeed, with the former royal residences being able to open full time without having to take into account the accommodation needs of this family, the employment opportunities would increase in number.

The jobs likely to be taken off the backs of the taxpayer will be the ones that deal exclusively with the individual members of the family, such as toothpaste tube squeezers and urine sample bottle holders. Those positions will either be lost or the Windsors, can employ them in a private capacity.

707889[/snapback]

What about the butlers ,phone operators,stable hands ,grooms,maintinance men,security staff,shofers,game keepers,dog handlers and trainers,kennell asistants,groundsmen,the list goes on

if we didnt have urine sample bottle holders you would be on the dole

[renton]

BTW, thanks all for the welcome.

And yes, Renton was in Trainspotting, great film, but not the reason I use it as a screen name.

[warden]

And before i forget ,you ask any old soldier that fought in the last war what he was fighting for and they will tell you KING AND COUNTRY,tell them that fought for your freedom to just bin the monarchy and they would die on the spot,if we are to do away with the monarchy all together atleast wait untill there are no survivors left from the second world war,i memory of the ones that died and survived for you

[renton]

 

What about  the butlers ,phone operators,stable hands ,grooms,maintainance men,security staff,shofers,game keepers,dog handlers and trainers,kennell asistants,groundsmen,the list goes on

if we didnt have urine sample bottle holders you would be on the dole

707902[/snapback]

No, 'fraid not, my employment isn't dependent on the generosity of the British taxpaying public. And if Frau Vindsor wants stable hands, grooms, etc. then Frau Vindsor can put her hand in her own pocket as an extremely wealthy private citizen.

[warden]

  

What about  the butlers ,phone operators,stable hands ,grooms,maintainance men,security staff,shofers,game keepers,dog handlers and trainers,kennell asistants,groundsmen,the list goes on

if we didnt have urine sample bottle holders you would be on the dole

707902[/snapback]

No, 'fraid not, my employment isn't dependent on the generosity of the British taxpaying public. And if Frau Vindsor wants stable hands, grooms, etc. then Frau Vindsor can put her hand in her own pocket as an extremely wealthy private citizen.

707918[/snapback]

While we have Tony blair staying out of the EU down fall we will have the monarchy,but if Blair can kick some ass in his 6 month stint and Europe wakes up we could see the end of the royals as Europe would found them

[renton]

And before i forget ,you ask any old soldier that fought in the last war what he was fighting for and they will tell you KING AND COUNTRY,tell them that fought for your freedom to just bin the monarchy and they would die on the spot,if we are to do away with the monarchy all together atleast wait untill there are no survivors left from the second world war,i memory of the ones that died and survived for you

707910[/snapback]

Maybe a better question to ask one of these old soldiers would be what they thought about the way the king and his wife used every piece of influence they had to keep the anti-Nazi Churchill out of office. Maybe asking them why they think the Vindsors suggested the pro-Nazi Lord Halifax as P.M. is another good one.

[Commander CMG]

I was always of the opinion that we don't need a Royal family, in fact even when I was in the Army and fighting for our Country my opinion never really changed.

Then things changed I was working with many of the Royals assisting Diplomatic Protection and working up close and personal to several members of the family and there is a lot of work behind the scenes that most of the family do that we never get to hear about, it is not all tea and scones and just a Christmas day speech, the Queen is a grafter and the likes of Prince Charles never stops his charity work.

There are thousands of people that rely on this family for a livelihood and charities that would not exist without an High profile figurehead.

Prince Charles alone has more than 126 people working for him.

Personally I still dislike them all except Princess Anne, they are so far detached from reality it is untrue.

What I do object to is us as Tax payers paying for the rebuild of Windsor castle after a fire or excessive travel costs that could be trimmed down or the fact they can qualify for governments grants for their property maintenance etc, and I am sure we can get rid of the hangers on and leeches that are amongst them that have no positive impact to our economy... I wish I could name them?

[renton]

Then things changed I was working with many of the Royals assisting Diplomatic Protection and working up close and personal to several members of the family and there is a lot of work behind the scenes that most of the family do that we never get to hear about, it is not all tea and scones and just a Christmas day speech, the Queen is a grafter and the likes of Prince Charles never stops his charity work.

In the twelve months between July 2003 – July 2004, the ‘hardest working royal’, Anne, put in (based on a five day working week) the equivalent of 97 days ‘work’ – (including her charitable engagements) for £228,000 a year – tax-free of course – with free transport – first class of course.

I’d like a job that took me to see Scotland play Italy at Murrayfield, chauffeured in a RAF helicopter, with taxpaying mugs picking up the £11,000 bill for the flight. Is this anyone else’s definition of hard work?

There are thousands of people that rely on this family for a livelihood and charities that would not exist without an High profile figurehead.

And the figures show that the high profile of the Windsors isn't a guarantee of success for a charity. Given the huge amount of tax payer money this family suck in every year, it seems reasonable to expect a better return for the expenditure. I have found no figures that suggest that our nearest neighbours give any less to charitable causes, even though they pay around thirty times less for their respective heads of state.

Prince Charles alone has more than 126 people working for him.

And if Mr C. Windsor wants 126 people working for him, then Mr Windsor should employ them - not us.

Personally I still dislike them all except Princess Anne, they are so far detached from reality it is untrue.

Hey! We nearly agree!

[warden]

Okay chew on this

Prince Charles made 1 million profit from Dutchy origional line of organic produce such as fruit cake and barley ale,charles donated the cash to charity along with 1.5 million from his own pocket.

He also raised 109 million for good causes.

[renton]

Okay chew on this

Hmmm! Yum! Yum!

Prince Charles made 1 million profit from Dutchy origional line of organic produce such as fruit cake and barley ale,charles donated the cash to charity along with 1.5 million from his own pocket. 

He also raised 109 million for good causes.

Firstly, the assets and profits from the Duchy are not his personal property. They are state owned.

"Assets of the Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall do not belong to the Queen or the Prince of Wales and are not theirs to dispose of."

The Paymaster General

Hansard.

9 Jul 2002

He no more personally 'gives' the profits made from the Duchy than the Chancellor of the Exchequer as an individual 'gives' us our tax rebates. And as his entire annual income comes from the publicly owned Duchy and tax funded Grants-in-Aid, there is no way he personally contributes from his 'own pocket'.

Furthermore, as he began to receive the income from the Duchy in 1952, but only began to pay some tax on it over 40 years later, he has a long way to go before he can claim he is a net contributor to this country's economy.

Secondly, if the charities he lends his name to make a profit or not is really irrelevant to the issue of whether he is worth the money he receives from the British public.

Because if raising money for good causes is the way to decide someone's worth to this country, and the requirement to receive over £8,000,000 of public money per annum, do you agree that the Rt. Hon. Neil Kinnock should get around £32 million per year from the taxpayers pocket?

After all, just one of the charities Kinnock lends his name to makes over four times the amount of income than Charlie's total contribution to 'good causes'.

[Blackleaf]

July 01, 2005

Prince costs country 4p per head as his income surges to £13m

By Alan Hamilton

THE Prince of Wales’s income rose by 11 per cent last year to just over £13 million, figures released by Clarence House yesterday show.

Higher commercial rents, better investment yields and less dependence on farm income benefited the Duchy of Cornwall estate, which funds the Prince’s office and most of his official duties, leaving him a personal income of £5.2 million before tax, up from £4.4 million last year, for himself, his wife and his two sons.

The Prince’s dependence on the taxpayer, who pays for his official travel and for the maintenance of his London headquarters, fell from £3.8 million to £2.3 million, mainly due to completion of the refurbishment of Clarence House.

But, as Buckingham Palace disclosed in its accounts last week, his travel budget rose by more than £230,000. Sir Michael Peat, the Prince’s private secretary, said yesterday that the heir to the throne costs the British population 4p per head a year. The monarchy’s total cost is 61p per head.

The annual review of the Prince’s work and finances shows that he helped directly or indirectly to raise £109 million last year for the Prince’s Trust and his other main charities. The Prince donated £2.5 million of his own money.

“The Prince is the only person anywhere who sets out how he uses his private money,” Sir Michael said.

Since 1993, when royal finances were reformed, the Prince has paid income tax on his Duchy income. Much of it will be tax deductible, being in effect business expenses.

This year’s accounts show an increase in staff costs; nine extra people were taken on during the year, bringing the Prince’s total number of employees to 135. He has a personal staff of 29, from valets and butlers to gardeners and farm workers at Highgrove.

The Duchess of Cornwall has a full-time secretary and two part-timers, and Princes William and Harry have a full-time private secretary.

A £24,000 increase in professional fees paid by the Prince is mainly accounted for by the costs of successfully defending an action for sexual discrimination and unfair dismissal brought by Elaine Day, a former personal assistant in the Prince’s office.

Official entertaining costs were cut by nearly £150,000. “We have not cut out the champagne; we are just being more efficient,” Sir Michael said. Large social events are still handled by Michael Fawcett, who resigned as a royal aide two years ago over the back-door sale of official gifts, via his company Premier Mode Events.

Duchy Originals, the Prince’s organic food company, made £1 million profit on £40 million turnover. The profits go to the Prince’s charities.

Costs for the Prince’s wedding in April will appear in next year’s accounts. Sir Michael said yesterday that of letters received about the marriage, 22,010 were in favour and 1,073 were against.

A YEAR'S WORK

2004-05

501 official engagements

7,400 guests entertained or received at royal residences

191 formal briefings

47,000 letters received

2,300 letters written personally

18,000 letters written on Prince’s behalf by office

[Mr Ed]

I have just come upon this topic and due to my lack of effort, I haven't read all of the posts. Regardless of this, I believe that Britain should be made a republic. The monarchy are an embarrasment to our country and help to create a sterotypical view of the British.

I would be a bit sad if they went, due to national heritage, however I think it would be better for the country in the future. It is not very democratic to give 20p tax a year (or something like that), to a family who came from Germany.