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Gays march through Europe demanding right to marry


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Snake, I believe you have chosen the wrong animal for your user name

My username?What does my username have to do with anything?Running out of arguments aren't you?

Oh well,since you like giving me nicknames what about me giving you one?

Let's see....What about....peacock?

So peacock,why don't you respond to the parts of my posts you so conviently ignored in this and the other 2 threads?

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Parrot, feel free to call me whatever you want, I'm not entirerly picky. I'll even accept "hey you", so long as it's followed by something intelligent. I'm waiting on the edge of my seat for you to get more than half way in that regard.

However, any points you've raised in other threads belongs in other threads, and would best be dealt with there, and not here. If you want me to address something in particular, I suggest you draw my attention to it there.

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Parrot, feel free to call me whatever you want, I'm not entirerly picky. I'll even accept "hey you", so long as it's followed by something intelligent. I'm waiting on the edge of my seat for you to get more than half way in that regard.

Well,try not to fall of.It would be lethal from your position.

However, any points you've raised in other threads belongs in other threads, and would best be dealt with there, and not here. If you want me to address something in particular, I suggest you draw my attention to it there.

I did.I'm still waiting for you to comment on that.

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Wow, Snake just doesn't realize with whom he is dealing. laugh.gif

Seraphina, go easy on him...the poor child obviously is misguided in many areas.

Edited by JennRose
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Wow, Snake just doesn't realize with whom he is dealing.

No, I don't believe he does...and it's actually sad that I return to the boards and make a single reply to something he said in another thread, and he's taken that as an excuse to launch a grand crusade against me, and has hounded every post I've made since tongue.gif

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so you would basically be forcing a straight kid to be gay.

Don't be utterly ridiculous...

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I am not! It is the conditioning in the enviroment that the child will grow up in. I'm not saying it to be mean, but as truth. How many parents encourage their kids to get a girlfriend if they are a boy or a boyfriend if they are a girl? What makes you think gay couples wouldn't impose their lifestyle on that kid?

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You really think a kid can be 'brought up' gay? Hasn't it been proved as much beyond doubt as they can that it's due to genetics and the amounts of hormones the brain gets while in the womb?

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You really think a kid can be 'brought up' gay? Hasn't it been proved as much beyond doubt as they can that it's due to genetics and the amounts of hormones the brain gets while in the womb?

If a kid can be brought up straight,he can be brought up gay as well.There's a reason why it is only today that the number of gays is that high and rising.

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You really think a kid can be 'brought up' gay? Hasn't it been proved as much beyond doubt as they can that it's due to genetics and the amounts of hormones the brain gets while in the womb?

If a kid can be brought up straight,he can be brought up gay as well.There's a reason why it is only today that the number of gays is that high and rising.

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or maybe they live now in a era when doesnt burn them when they declare their homosexuality Snake.....

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I am not! It is the conditioning in the enviroment that the child will grow up in. I'm not saying it to be mean, but as truth. How many parents encourage their kids to get a girlfriend if they are a boy or a boyfriend if they are a girl? What makes you think gay couples wouldn't impose their lifestyle on that kid?

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That's ignorant.

You think that the only reason you're straight is because your parents brought you up that way? You don't have a biological urge to be with a woman, it's just because of the way you were raised?

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or maybe they live now in a era when doesnt burn them when they declare their homosexuality Snake.....

If you have a look at history you will realize that many cultures didn't even know what homosexuality is,simply because it never occured.And you can't declare something as bad if you don't even know it exists.

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I am not! It is the conditioning in the enviroment that the child will grow up in. I'm not saying it to be mean, but as truth. How many parents encourage their kids to get a girlfriend if they are a boy or a boyfriend if they are a girl? What makes you think gay couples wouldn't impose their lifestyle on that kid?

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That's ignorant.

You think that the only reason you're straight is because your parents brought you up that way? You don't have a biological urge to be with a woman, it's just because of the way you were raised?

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Sure, there is a biological urge... but how many kids start off their first 12 years trying to tick off their parents? Those are the years that will greatly influence your character as a person. Why do you think there is so many programs aimed at helping children out? Because it molds them for life!

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or maybe they live now in a era when doesnt burn them when they declare their homosexuality Snake.....

If you have a look at history you will realize that many cultures didn't even know what homosexuality is,simply because it never occured.And you can't declare something as bad if you don't even know it exists.

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Please, give me resources about that afirmation. I am studing antropology in the university and the theme interest me. As far i know, almost every culture know homosexuality, be acepted or comdend by them.

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Sure, there is a biological urge... but how many kids start off their first 12 years trying to tick off their parents? Those are the years that will greatly influence your character as a person. Why do you think there is so many programs aimed at helping children out? Because it molds them for life!

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That's interesting; you think upbringing and the influence of parents is stronger than the biological imperative? In humans, the natural sexual instinct can be over ridden by environment? So that if you have the natural reproductive instinct, it can be altered by the behavior of you parents or whoever brings you up. I'm not trying to pick an arguement, it's just that I'm not quite convinced.

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Please, give me resources about that afirmation. I am studing antropology in the university and the theme interest me. As far i know, almost every culture know homosexuality, be acepted or comdend by them.

Almost every culture?

I know the greeks accepted it and the Romans knew of homosexuality and I'm sure there are a few more,but I never heard much about gays in history.

Let's take the germanic tribes or the Celts as an example.Any history of homosexuality there?

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I dont know. Do you? Have any material backing your afirmation? Knowing about homosexuality doesnt mean acepting it. Whit just a prohibition of it you get a clue that they know about it, soo, it was present in some way or another.

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Could it just be that it happened - homosexual behavior happened - but it wasn't identified as such, so it wasn't recorded? There wasn't the culture that labelled it as such like the Greeks and Romans?

Edited by 747400
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Sigh....the lack of understanding of human history is really saddening. OF COURSE homosexuality has been around in all human cultures. Geez... rolleyes.gif Most war-like cultures didn't celebrate/condone it the same way as the more intellectually inclined, which is why people usually think of the Greeks when looking at homosexuality in history. In most cases the historical focus was placed on the procreating rather than the pleasure, so we mainly know of family's lineage rather than the sexual predispositions of the members.

Obviously the Jews in Old Testament times has occurances of it or there would not have been taboos. Hindu cultures have an entire cast system for homosexual men (or more specifically, transvestites) known as the 'Untouchables'. This is no relation to Elliot Ness or the fact that they are shunned from society. It means they are to be left alone. There are plenty of documented cases from Anceint Egypt all the way to some of the earliest Chinese dynasties. I would list some examples, but no one would have heard them.

A few of the famous (non-Greek) homosexuals throughout history: King Richard the Lionheart, Da Vinci, King James, Walt Whitman, Alexander the Great, Michelangelo, Oscar Wilde, Emily Dickinson, and Cole Porter.

If you are lucky enough to have the pleasure of diverse friendships, you will know that your homosexual friends come from homes probably no different from any others. They weren't raised by a gay couple or some other alternate lifestyle, they devleoped their sexuality naturally, and more than likely to the dismay of their parents. Why wouldn anyone CHOOSE to be a homosexual and have to endure the kind of misconceptions, ridicule and prejudice that they now face?

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Sigh....the lack of understanding of human history is really saddening. OF COURSE homosexuality has been around in all human cultures. Geez... Most war-like cultures didn't celebrate/condone it the same way as the more intellectually inclined, which is why people usually think of the Greeks when looking at homosexuality in history. In most cases the historical focus was placed on the procreating rather than the pleasure, so we mainly know of family's lineage rather than the sexual predispositions of the members.

Obviously the Jews in Old Testament times has occurances of it or there would not have been taboos. Hindu cultures have an entire cast system for homosexual men (or more specifically, transvestites) known as the 'Untouchables'. This is no relation to Elliot Ness or the fact that they are shunned from society. It means they are to be left alone. There are plenty of documented cases from Anceint Egypt all the way to some of the earliest Chinese dynasties. I would list some examples, but no one would have heard them.

I don't know about Egypt or China unless you provide some examples,but I know for sure the "Untouchables" were not a cast of homosexuals.They were viewed as lower people and as such were untouchable,not because they were homosexuals.

If you are lucky enough to have the pleasure of diverse friendships, you will know that your homosexual friends come from homes probably no different from any others. They weren't raised by a gay couple or some other alternate lifestyle, they devleoped their sexuality naturally, and more than likely to the dismay of their parents. Why wouldn anyone CHOOSE to be a homosexual and have to endure the kind of misconceptions, ridicule and prejudice that they now face?

But let's ask the people that know history.

Grandparents.

Did your grandparents know homosexuals or even the phenomenon of homosexuality?(Only answer,if that isn't too personal)

If they didn't then it clearly shows that homosexuality can be repressed by the surroundings.

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The Indian term for the transvestites is 'Hirjas' and they have been around for hundreds of years as a 3rd gender alternative. But they supposedly possess mystical powers, so are left alone. They are another form of the class of 'Untouchables', which do also include lepers and the extremely poor.

Ok, for some of the examples that were requested: In ancient China. During the Zhou dysnasty there were at least 3 clasical love stories about same-sex love: The Story of Mizi Xia, the Story of Pan Zhang and the Story of Lord Yang. In Korea, Hyehong, a King of the Shilla Dynasty, was described as a man in appearance but a woman in nature and was killed for his sexual tendancies. The Egytptian holy text 'The book of the Dead' address same sex relationships. Probably the first recorded historical homosexual couple are from Ancient Egypt: Architects Niankuman and Khanumhotep were even given burial together so they could "be together in death as they were in life".

Your assumptions about our "grandparents" not knowing homosexuals are absolutely, incredibly inane. In fact, my grandfather's brother is a gay man. Marelene Dietrech was a lesbian, Rock Hudson was gay, Truman Copote, Joseph Foucault, Liberace, etc, etc, etc...these were all people our grandparents age that were homosexual. The society that was prevalent when our grandparents were growing up was a very different and much more repressed atmosphere. Our grandmothers weren't in college or given much in the way of career opportunities, either. If we happen to be of African descent, our grandparents weren't voting or drinking from the same water fountains. The people haven't changed one iota, it's the mentality of the culture that has evolved.

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PARIS (AFP) - Demanding "Marriage, Adoption, and Equality," hundreds of thousands of gays marched through European capitals, in festive "Gay Pride" parades focused this year on same-sex marriages.

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While Athens held its first parade in modern times with just a few hundreds marching through the Greek capital, Paris seemed to have the highest turnout with organizers estimating some 700,000 taking to the streets to watch or march and police about 300,000.

"During the (French) revolution, the oppressed people fought to abolish privileges," said Estelle Haury, wearing a pink version of the cap of liberty worn by the "sans-culottes" who overthrew the monarchy in 1789.

"We are fighting for homosexual couples to be allowed to adopt, get married, and have the same rights as others," said Haury.

Dozens of floats, including the Brazilian green and yellow painted "Transpower" group, advanced through a steaming Paris, fired by techno, drums and whistles.

At 4:00 pm sharp, the procession came to a standstill as the participants observed three minutes of silence in memory of    AIDS victims.

Every day in France four homosexuals discover they are    HIV-positive, organizers said, warning of a new dramatic rise in HIV infections, particularly in the male gay community.

Heading the parade was Paris Mayor Bertrand Delanoe, one of France's few avowed homosexual politicians, along with socialist and green party leaders.

Delanoe urged parliament to pass a law allowing gay couples in France to marry.

"We must legislate, because without a law, nothing will change," Delanoe said.

The law allowing gay marriage in Spain, including the right to adopt children, was passed earlier this year by the lower house of the Spanish parliament but still needs the approval of the senate.

The measure incited gay groups in other European countries to push for similar legislation, while at the same time sparking protests by religious and conservative groups opposed to gay marriage.

Marriage and adoption was also a key theme in Lisbon, where a few dozen members of the gay community began to march under the rallying cry: "Let us respect the constitution: No to homophobia!"

According to the organizers, Portugal is the only European country whose constitution "explicitly forbids discrimination based on sexual orientation."

Portuguese media have reported anti-homosexual incidents, including in the city of Viseu, where in March groups of young people raided gay bars to harass homosexuals.

Homophobia was visible in Athens, where far right-wing groups distributed anti-gay leaflets as organizers prepared for Greece's first Gay Pride parade under the slogan: "Love and life deserve respect."

"Many Greek homosexuals still hide in a society that tolerates us, but does not accept us," said Marianella Kolka, an organizer, who brought a mask with her in case television cameras were to film the parade.

Only 400 people turned up for the march toward parliament, chanting "Openly and Proudly," and "We are all transvestites!"

No public figures were expected at the event, which was to turn into an open-air techno party in downtown Athens.

"This has got to change, we can't live like in the 1950s," said a 44-year-old photographer, Evangelia Vlami, of the Homosexual Community of Greece (Olke).

The "Chistopher Street Day" parade also kicked off in Berlin, with 59 floats and 25,000 participants according to organizers, and 5,000 according to the police. All told, some 400,000 people packed the streets as the parade went by, the organizers said.

The capital's homosexual mayor, Klaus Wowereit, and federal Agriculture Minister Renate Kuenast took part in the parade, which Wowereit called "a show of strength for equality."

Source-Yahoo News

[edit- removed foul language] disgust.gif

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sorry but i believe in "adam and eve" not "adam and steve" i can go into why i feel this way but it would take too long and im at work sad.gif !

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Your assumptions about our "grandparents" not knowing homosexuals are absolutely, incredibly inane. In fact, my grandfather's brother is a gay man. Marelene Dietrech was a lesbian, Rock Hudson was gay, Truman Copote, Joseph Foucault, Liberace, etc, etc, etc...these were all people our grandparents age that were homosexual. The society that was prevalent when our grandparents were growing up was a very different and much more repressed atmosphere. Our grandmothers weren't in college or given much in the way of career opportunities, either. If we happen to be of African descent, our grandparents weren't voting or drinking from the same water fountains. The people haven't changed one iota, it's the mentality of the culture that has evolved.

Ok.Let's go a few more generations back.

It DOES show that homosexuality can be repressed,I'm sure of it.

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