Gays march through Europe demanding right to marry

[Seraphina]

And no matter how many times I post that...no matter how many times I explain it...you're going to find me doing the exact same thing a few weeks from now, because they gay bashers will quite happily ignore it...

[Kismit]

It could be thier hormones...

allthough more likely it's just ignorance

[British Bootboy]

It's genetic, however the degrees of effect are varying.

Strictly speaking, it's not actually genetic....its hormonal. The examples you described fall along a broad range of variations that can occur based on a developing fetus' exposure to various male hormones as it's growing.

Allow me to paint a pretty picture for all the people who, although they claim to be "for gays", are coming up with ridiculous reasons to deny them basic rights that are allowed for straight couples, and not thinking very far beyond either their own prejudices, or lack of understanding of homosexuality to do it.

Every single invertibrate embryo (yes, that includes you) begins female (on the genetic level at least). Every single one of you...that's just the basic factory setting, due to the manner in which chromosomes are arranges. At a certain stage of development, the fetus may receive a massive dose of male hormone - this will cause the fetus to grow testes, and start to develope as a male physically.

At a more advanced stage of development, a second dose may be recieved, which will configure the fetus to male bahaviour patterns (to greater or lesser degrees depending on the amount of hormone delivered). In theory, the second dosage is supposed to be proportional to the amount recieved in the first dose...however, this simply isn't always the case in practice.

If a fetus recieves the first dose, but not the second (or an insufficient amount of the second), then what you will end up with is a male configured to female behaviour. There is a fairly good chance he'll be gay or bisexual (although, again, that varies with the amount of the hormone recieved in the second dose). On the other hand, he may be straight, but will now have the added ability to not only put up the shelves, but put them in the right place the first time round.

If the fetus doesn't recieve the first dose, but does get a significantly larger than required dose the second time, you will end up with a female configured to male behaviour...the results can range to lesbianism, to being the envy of her female cohorts through the amazing ability to read a map

That is what causes homosexuality...and it is the only point at which homosexuality can be determined. Unless a homosexual couple regress their adopted children to a fetal state and start either denying them hormones, or pumping them full of them as needed, there is absolutely no way they can change a person's sexuality.

The unfortuante truth is that some people still live in the dark ages, and not only don't properly understand homosexuality, but make no attempt to either. Rather than look at the research that has been done, and the facts derived from it, they would much rather either make things up "Homosexuals are demons! Raaah!", or fall back on the beliefs that most people stop having when they leave primary school "Homosexuality is contagious! Hang around gays and you'll become one!"

It's depressing to argue with such a person.

708853[/snapback]

why are they been funny with you?

all your doing is having your say!, i hate ppl like that!

b'cos as soon as you dont agree wi em they dont like it, tell em to p*** off lol

Edited July 1, 2005 by British Bootboy

[Space Commander Travis]

I suspect the reason some people won't be convicned Sera, is because your arguments are backed up with scientific knowledge, rather than being told by the aliens or through secret Illuminati scrolls discovered under the Great Pyramid.

[SnakeProphet]

Calling people homophobic is a nice way to back out.

You still haven't commented on Kratos argument.

And notice both his and mine arguments have completely NOTHING to do with genetics but you keep bringing them up for a reason unknown to me.

[JennRose]

There have been lots of instances on this particular discussion where perfectly valid argmuents/statements have been completely ignored, and it wasn't from Seraphina. I've noticed a great deal of "well, I've already said it" sort of statements, and that is no way to make a point. I'm still not entirely sure WHAT a couple of you are arguing for or against because you make contradictory statements.

[SnakeProphet]

There have been lots of instances on this particular discussion where perfectly valid argmuents/statements have been completely ignored, and it wasn't from Seraphina. I've noticed a great deal of "well, I've already said it" sort of statements, and that is no way to make a point. I'm still not entirely sure WHAT a couple of you are arguing for or against because you make contradictory statements.

Because they have completely nothing to do with the arguement.I think we already said a few dozen times that we aknowledge that genetics are responsible for sexual preference.Our arguement has completely nothing to do with that and yet people still refuse to comment on what we state and rather bring up the genetic issue instead.

Oh,and maybe you want to provide some quotes?Where in our posts are contradictory statements?

Edited July 1, 2005 by Snake_6024

[JennRose]

nothing to do with the arguement.I think we already said a few dozen times that we aknowledge that genetics are responsible for sexual preference.Our arguement has completely nothing to do with that and yet people still refuse to comment on what we state and rather bring up the genetic issue instead.

Oh,and maybe you want to provide some quotes?Where in our posts are contradictory statements?

708996[/snapback]

Well, the most glaringly obvious is how you will admit that genetics determine sexual prefererance and that is cannot be changed, but you will also say that homosexuals adopting a child will somehow turn the child gay.

And no one has ever answered the question 'Is is better to have a child grow up without a family and love, or to be raised by a couple who are gay?' Is being gay so terrible that you would deny a child aloving home?

[SnakeProphet]

Well, the most glaringly obvious is how you will admit that genetics determine sexual prefererance and that is cannot be changed, but you will also say that homosexuals adopting a child will somehow turn the child gay.

We're saying that?Really?Look again and you will see,that I used a whole page trying to explain that sexuality won't be changed but REPRESSED.

And no one has ever answered the question 'Is is better to have a child grow up without a family and love, or to be raised by a couple who are gay?' Is being gay so terrible that you would deny a child aloving home?

I think I did.Look again.

As I already said,you propably would have seen it,if you weren't constantly looking for a homophobic attitude in our posts.

[JennRose]

I beg to differ, sir. I am only reading what you are typing, and have no preconceptions. I've my own mind made up int he matter, thank you.

If a kid can be brought up straight,he can be brought up gay as well.There's a reason why it is only today that the number of gays is that high and rising.

703967[/snapback]

and Kratos said: "Kids are the great imitators and minds like sponges, so you would basically be forcing a straight kid to be gay."

There was an entire set of posts where to you tried to argue that homosexuality was something that had just recently come into being (with the exception of the Greeks, of course). However, if you are now admitting that sexual preference is genetic, I guess that whole point is moot, no?

Ha ha ha... this article is great and strangely apropos.

http://www.theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4126&n=3

Edited July 1, 2005 by JennRose

[SnakeProphet]

There was an entire set of posts where to you tried to argue that homosexuality was something that had just recently come into being (with the exception of the Greeks, of course). However, if you are now admitting that sexual preference is genetic, I guess that whole point is moot, no?

I admitted that homosexuality is genetic NOW.

I have a theory that homosexuality wasn't part of every culture,but that's a different issue.

Homosexuality is genetic and that's all that counts for our argument.

[Shadowsleet]

As Sera is no longer here, and I'm kicking about her brother's house with nothing to do while she's out (yes, that does sound dirty. Sue me) I suppose I'll carry the torch for a post or two.

I don't honestly have the patience to read through eleven pages, but just going by recent arguements...what I've seen is an educated individual, who clearly knows more about this than anyone else in the thread (that being Seraphina), telling the same people over and over the reasons why they're quite clearly wrong.

These people seem to prefer their own fantasy world than what science has known for thirty years plus. Even those who, in the face of Sera's superior knowledge, are admiting that homosexuality is predetermined are sticking to their guns on a now antiquated conviction that a homosexual couple would somehow manipulate their adopted child into being gay.

"Mind over matter", which Kratos so rigidly sticks to, does appear to be the cornerstone phrase here....I am of course talking about their own arguements, that appear to completely ignore reality.

[SnakeProphet]

As Sera is no longer here, and I'm kicking about her brother's house with nothing to do while she's out (yes, that does sound dirty. Sue me) I suppose I'll carry the torch for a post or two.

I don't honestly have the patience to read through eleven pages, but just going by recent arguements...what I've seen is an educated individual, who clearly knows more about this than anyone else in the thread (that being Seraphina), telling the same people over and over the reasons why they're quite clearly wrong.

These people seem to prefer their own fantasy world than what science has known for thirty years plus. Even those who, in the face of Sera's superior knowledge, are admiting that homosexuality is predetermined are sticking to their guns on a now antiquated conviction that a homosexual couple would somehow manipulate their adopted child into being gay.

"Mind over matter", which Kratos so rigidly sticks to, does appear to be the cornerstone phrase here....I am of course talking about their own arguements, that appear to completely ignore reality.

What exactly has this to do with anything?Any arguments?Any opinion on homosexuality?If not,what the hell are you doing here?

[Shadowsleet]

What exactly has this to do with anything?Any arguments?

What should I be argueing against? The downright stupid claims that are being in made in the face of Seraphina's well established scientific facts? Sera has put the case so plainly that there's not much more to add...I'm just amazed you and others are still trying to argue with her.

If not,what the hell are you doing here?

Maybe I'm just here to observe how sad it is that the education system in some western nations is still so poor. Science has known about the exact causes of homosexuality for a long time now....however, the fact that most countries regard homosexuality as such a taboo that people simply aren't educated on it.

That is, at least, the only reason I can see why some of the crude arguements that treat homosexuality like a plague could possibly be made, and why someone called Sera's explanation an "opinion."

An opinion is when you say that Blackadder is funny, or when you say everything tastes like chicken. What Sera is doing is stating the sky is blue, while others are trying to argue that it's green.

[SnakeProphet]

Actually we're not.Maybe you really should read a few pages through our argument before you start ranting about it.

[Shadowsleet]

The truth is Snake, from what I've read, I don't even know what you're argueing. You seem to be here for the sole purpose of finding more and more imaginative ways of saying "I'm not sure". I was refering largly to Kratos, the instigator of the "homosexuality can rub off" theory.

[SnakeProphet]

I'm providing a basis for Kratos argument.

Homosexuality can be repressed..That's my arguement.That's the basis for Kratos arguement.That's all.Is it that hard to understand?

[Shadowsleet]

Kratos is arguing nothing of the sort. He's arguing that sexuality can be changed, and that a child raised by homosexuals would grow up gay by exposure to them.

I used to believe that if the wind changed when you pulled a face, it'd stay lke that. Funny how a lot of the stuff we believe as kids turns out to be full of crap, isnt' it?

[SnakeProphet]

Kratos is arguing nothing of the sort.

I'm rather sure he is,but maybe you should ask him and not me.And I can only encourage you to actually read his posts and not relying on information given to you by others.

Edited July 1, 2005 by Snake_6024

[Shadowsleet]

Snake, I notice you have a habit of doing that....throughout this thread, everytime someone has disagreed with you, you'd accused them of not reading the posts they're disagreeing with.

In fact, you've done that to everyone...given the number of people who are disagreeing with you outnumber the people who aren't. Doesn't it seem more likely that if anyone's reading things the wrong way, it's you?

[SnakeProphet]

Snake, I notice you have a habit of doing that....throughout this thread, everytime someone has disagreed with you, you'd accused them of not reading the posts they're disagreeing with.

In fact, you've done that to everyone...given the number of people who are disagreeing with you outnumber the people who aren't. Doesn't it seem more likely that if anyone's reading things the wrong way, it's you?

I'm only doing that in this thread.I'm active in other topics as well you know.

[__Kratos__]

Kratos is arguing nothing of the sort. He's arguing that sexuality can be changed, and that a child raised by homosexuals would grow up gay by exposure to them.

I used to believe that if the wind changed when you pulled a face, it'd stay lke that. Funny how a lot of the stuff we believe as kids turns out to be full of crap, isnt' it?

709396[/snapback]

Umm... I am arguing that it can be REPRESSED. If you had actually read all my posts you would have clearly seen that. But you didn't, you stated before you didn't read them all, so... what are you even doing trying to poke me with a stick while you don't even know my thoughts on the issue? Just fire into a field and hopee to hit the rabbit? Maybe you should learn to shoot, and line up the sights, buddy.

Edited July 1, 2005 by __Kratos__

[Shadowsleet]

Umm... I am arguing that it can be REPRESSED

Don't talk tripe. You've spent several pages now arguing that a child raised by gays would be 'forced' into being gay. That, my friend, is changing their sexuality based on exposure to homosexuals.

You have also utterly failed to answer (or even attempt to confront) the often raised point that, if what you say is true, then there shouldn't be homosexuals in the first place, as their parents heterosexuality should have rubbed off on them.

I'm not even sure you know what you're actually arguing...at least, you seem to have put little enough thought into it not to.

[SnakeProphet]

You have also utterly failed to answer (or even attempt to confront) the often raised point that, if what you say is true, then there shouldn't be homosexuals in the first place, as their parents heterosexuality should have rubbed off on them.

I have already answered that question for him.

[__Kratos__]

Umm... I am arguing that it can be REPRESSED

Don't talk tripe. You've spent several pages now arguing that a child raised by gays would be 'forced' into being gay. That, my friend, is changing their sexuality based on exposure to homosexuals.

You have also utterly failed to answer (or even attempt to confront) the often raised point that, if what you say is true, then there shouldn't be homosexuals in the first place, as their parents heterosexuality should have rubbed off on them.

I'm not even sure you know what you're actually arguing...at least, you seem to have put little enough thought into it not to.

709848[/snapback]

I did answer that... subby asked the same question and I answered it. Yes... conditioning is repressing it... that would be the reason for denial and confused sexual id... did you miss those parts also, sharpshooter? I have also already outlined what I am arguing... did you miss that part also?

Forced by conditioning which would in turn be repressing the true sexual id.

Unless something else new comes up, I'm done in here... I've made my point quite clear and all my reasons. Just read my past posts, I'm not going to keep repeating myself for ever new person that shows up that is to bloody lazy to read the full topic.

Edited July 2, 2005 by __Kratos__