Putte Posted July 21, 2005 #26 Share Posted July 21, 2005 And there is no "true" religion, the term is an oxymoron, except when it involves Satanism. That's the only true religion. 743143[/snapback] That's a contradiction if I ever saw one. First you say that there is no true religion, calling it an oxymoron. Then you say that satanism is the only true religion. What should it be? Man is not evil by nature only religion teaches that If you read up on it a bit, you will notice that most, if not all, religion preaches love and peace. 9/11 was religious , they felt Allah wanted them to bomb New york. 746379[/snapback] No. They wanted to hurt the west in general, and the US in particular. This had nothing to do with religion. Like Dang said - religion was used as an excuse, nothing more. If everyone followed the writings they claim to follow, there would be no killing, as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacca Posted July 21, 2005 #27 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Since all the religious 'books' are open to interpretation you can make them be saying anything you want. Is the christian god a loving caring all forgiving god or one who punishes you for not following his laws who will send you to eternity in hell for not worshiping him properly? Religion is an excuse to do things yes, but the hatred is based off of a belief system that is structured around the book or faith therefore without one you would never have the other and it all leads back to religion being at fault....but that's just my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putte Posted July 21, 2005 #28 Share Posted July 21, 2005 (edited) Religion is an excuse to do things yes, but the hatred is based off of a belief system that is structured around the book or faith therefore without one you would never have the other and it all leads back to religion being at fault....but that's just my opinion 746466[/snapback] And of course I disagree Saying you do bad things in the name of religion is placing the blame on someone else, because you're too cowardish to admit why you actually do it - hate, greed, or jealousy. Edit: And yes, most of the religious texts are open for your own interpretation. But some things can't be misinterpreted. But yes, they are somewhat contradictive at times, but I still stand by my opinion. Edited July 21, 2005 by Putte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted July 21, 2005 #29 Share Posted July 21, 2005 And there is no "true" religion, the term is an oxymoron, except when it involves Satanism. That's the only true religion. 743143[/snapback] That's a contradiction if I ever saw one. First you say that there is no true religion, calling it an oxymoron. Then you say that satanism is the only true religion. What should it be? Man is not evil by nature only religion teaches that If you read up on it a bit, you will notice that most, if not all, religion preaches love and peace. 9/11 was religious , they felt Allah wanted them to bomb New york. 746379[/snapback] No. They wanted to hurt the west in general, and the US in particular. This had nothing to do with religion. Like Dang said - religion was used as an excuse, nothing more. If everyone followed the writings they claim to follow, there would be no killing, as simple as that. 746434[/snapback] That is absurd religion does not preach love and peace, Jesus did Ghandi did, Martin luther King did, but not religion, What does "Vengence is mine sayeth the lord" mean to you ?? The problem isn't that people don't follow the taechins of the bible the problem is they are followed literally>Religion portrays anything but Love, it promotes fear, violence, discrimination, Read Exodus 32:27, Numbers 25:4-9 Joshua 8:1-30 Joshua 10:10-11 The books of Exodus, leviticus, Deuteronomy, Joshua,Judges,Samuel, Numbers,Amos, Kings Chronicles,Esther and Job have a death toll of 1 million people that were smote by Gods hand, Then there was the 7 year famine that was sent by the lord In Samaria II kings 8:1 I can goe on and on here but you get the point, Are you actually reading the bible or excepting someone elses interpretaion because if you are reading this yourself I would be curious as to your PERSONAL feelings and opinion on this, Does this seem like the promotion of love and peace to you ????? Namaste Sheri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacca Posted July 21, 2005 #30 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Religion is an excuse to do things yes, but the hatred is based off of a belief system that is structured around the book or faith therefore without one you would never have the other and it all leads back to religion being at fault....but that's just my opinion 746466[/snapback] And of course I disagree Saying you do bad things in the name of religion is placing the blame on someone else, because you're too cowardish to admit why you actually do it - hate, greed, or jealousy. Edit: And yes, most of the religious texts are open for your own interpretation. But some things can't be misinterpreted. But yes, they are somewhat contradictive at times, but I still stand by my opinion. 746472[/snapback] I actually agree with you entirely....What I mean is that some people are raised to believe one way. the believe that there culture is right there faith is right and ours is wrong and they are taught to get into heaven and get your 40 virgins you must do this. Well hopefully most religions say that you don't kill to get into heaven but anyway I would say that they are using religion as an excuse yes, but if you are taught that this is just how things are then it's hard, not impossible, but hard to change that especially when I would say that these people seem brain washed into being blind followers....but hey that's just my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putte Posted July 21, 2005 #31 Share Posted July 21, 2005 What does "Vengence is mine sayeth the lord" mean to you ?? I'm no English expert. But from what I can tell, it means that people shouldn't go around holding a grudge. If vengeance is to be dealt, God is the one to do it. Are you actually reading the bible or excepting someone elses interpretaion because if you are reading this yourself I would be curious as to your PERSONAL feelings and opinion on this, Does this seem like the promotion of love and peace to you 746502[/snapback] Same answer as before. Vengeance was dealt to people who deserved it (bad people), and God was the one who did it. I don't think someone actually took the time to destroy the crops in Egypt for 7 years just for fun. What's this "namaste" you keep saying btw? I've seen it before, never really got the hang of it. Trying to be cool? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperactive Posted July 21, 2005 #32 Share Posted July 21, 2005 it does not take religion to be a blind follower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putte Posted July 21, 2005 #33 Share Posted July 21, 2005 bacca, I know what you're saying, and I agree. What we might not agree on is, I guess, the meaning of "religion". The reason those people might think they are doing something in the name of their religion, or their God, is because, like you say, they are taught that way. They are also taught, that what they are taught IS a certain religion, when in fact it's very far from what the creators (if there were any) of that religion had in mind. They are taught a twisted version, of an otherwise nice religion. I hope you followed what I was trying to say, I almost lost myself there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted July 21, 2005 #34 Share Posted July 21, 2005 What does "Vengence is mine sayeth the lord" mean to you ?? I'm no English expert. But from what I can tell, it means that people shouldn't go around holding a grudge. If vengeance is to be dealt, God is the one to do it. Are you actually reading the bible or excepting someone elses interpretaion because if you are reading this yourself I would be curious as to your PERSONAL feelings and opinion on this, Does this seem like the promotion of love and peace to you 746502[/snapback] Same answer as before. Vengeance was dealt to people who deserved it (bad people), and God was the one who did it. I don't think someone actually took the time to destroy the crops in Egypt for 7 years just for fun. What's this "namaste" you keep saying btw? I've seen it before, never really got the hang of it. Trying to be cool? 746526[/snapback] Putte, please don't take anything I say personal against you I'm simply challenging the teachings of religion not you , I would agree with your definition of "VEngence is mine ........ The bible sponsors the idea of a vengeful, punishing needy God, A God withLow self esteem Why would the creator of all things need anything least of all followers??? I was once religious and I agree with Bacca and Hyper, religion teaches you not how to think for yourself but what to think and the ideas that it sponsors are dangerous, its obvious in the world. I found that once I started asking questions religion just didn't make sense. Again I have no issue with you. Namaste means the divine in me honors the divine in you. Beautiful Huh??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putte Posted July 21, 2005 #35 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Putte, please don't take anything I say personal against you 746570[/snapback] Oh, no way. I understand everyone has different opinions regarding just about everything. What a boring world it would be if that wasn't the case, right? And I believe everyone should be allowed to express what they think, even though what I say can come out a bit harsh at times. I was questioning your thinking, you were questioning mine, that's all there is to it And yeah, it's a nice phrase, Namaste Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eveningsky339 Posted July 21, 2005 #36 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Read Exodus 32:27, Numbers 25:4-9 Joshua 8:1-30 Joshua 10:10-11 The books of Exodus, leviticus, Deuteronomy, Joshua,Judges,Samuel, Numbers,Amos, Kings Chronicles,Esther and Job have a death toll of 1 million people that were smote by Gods hand, Then there was the 7 year famine that was sent by the lord In Samaria II kings 8:1 I can goe on and on here but you get the point, Are you actually reading the bible or excepting someone elses interpretaion because if you are reading this yourself I would be curious as to your PERSONAL feelings and opinion on this, Does this seem like the promotion of love and peace to you ????? Namaste Sheri There's a reason it's called the Old Testament. Might I suggest reading the New? It explains why God doesn't do such things anymore. Religion is the reason for wars and conflicts and has always been. Religion is used as an excuse to do various things "in gods name"(allahs etc) Different names, same **** Any religion, I think is "good" would be Buddhism. Im not a religious person, but still think there is something somewhere. Religion should be personal and not forced on anyone. It is dangerous to think that you are doing the right thing when for example killing in gods name... Its like the crazy man killing because the voices in the head tells him to and he is doing humanity a favour. Different names, same sh* Religion? The only cause for war and conflicts? You've obviously never heard of marxism... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted July 21, 2005 #37 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Read Exodus 32:27, Numbers 25:4-9 Joshua 8:1-30 Joshua 10:10-11 The books of Exodus, leviticus, Deuteronomy, Joshua,Judges,Samuel, Numbers,Amos, Kings Chronicles,Esther and Job have a death toll of 1 million people that were smote by Gods hand, Then there was the 7 year famine that was sent by the lord In Samaria II kings 8:1 I can goe on and on here but you get the point, Are you actually reading the bible or excepting someone elses interpretaion because if you are reading this yourself I would be curious as to your PERSONAL feelings and opinion on this, Does this seem like the promotion of love and peace to you ????? Namaste Sheri There's a reason it's called the Old Testament. Might I suggest reading the New? It explains why God doesn't do such things anymore. Religion is the reason for wars and conflicts and has always been. Religion is used as an excuse to do various things "in gods name"(allahs etc) Different names, same **** Any religion, I think is "good" would be Buddhism. Im not a religious person, but still think there is something somewhere. Religion should be personal and not forced on anyone. It is dangerous to think that you are doing the right thing when for example killing in gods name... Its like the crazy man killing because the voices in the head tells him to and he is doing humanity a favour. Different names, same sh* Religion? The only cause for war and conflicts? You've obviously never heard of marxism... 746608[/snapback] Isn't this the New testament that says that races must never marry and that Gays are mistakes and that women are less than, please read 1 Corinthatians 11:4-9 or Ephesians 5:22-24 As stated in the New Testament that every word in the bible is accurate down to the last dotted i, I'm merely suggesting that many of the teachings of many of the holy books may not be applicable in any civilized society. And that these ideas have been applied in our societys and we have lots of problems, Read James chapter 4 verse * NT and 1 peter Chap 4 versre 19, this "new God wants his followers to suffer. You seem to have this sense of sureness that God did not possibly say these things and yet I ask why are you defending these beliefs as if trampling on these sacred beliefs is wrong but to trample on each other is permitted In fact it seems to be a tradition to trample on each other because of beliefs., What do you think?? Namaste sheri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eveningsky339 Posted July 21, 2005 #38 Share Posted July 21, 2005 I believe you have misenterpreted the passages. Some of it depends on the translation, for example, New King James and King James versions are fairly inaccurate. I recommend New International or Message Versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryOldtimer Posted July 22, 2005 #39 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Putte: If you read up on it a bit, you will notice that most, if not all, religion preaches love and peace. If you really read up on it you will find that most, if not all, religions give lip service to love and peace, all the while stirring up their members to go out and kill the "infidel", with the "infidel" being any who believe differently than they do. This is, in fact, a capsul history of the world. The only time religious people aren't out killing people who believe differently is when they are planning and getting ready to do so, or when they are prevented by threat of force from doing so. If you think, perhaps, that Hitler wasn't using religon to justify killing Jews, or that Muslim clerics aren't using religion to promote suicide bombers, you are sadly mistaken. But, oh my, it is just too easy to stir up the religious to kill "infidels". I guess it must be "killing them because they love them". You must be one who believed that the Christians and Muslims in Yugoslavia were getting along so nicely under Tito was because they wanted to. When Tito died, and the USSR no longer posed a threat to these people, they were soon out killing each other, once again, because of different religious beliefs. As the Catholics say, "world without end". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted July 22, 2005 #40 Share Posted July 22, 2005 This isn't the forum for debate so I'm gonna respect that and the paths of all. Namaste Sheri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byuu94 Posted July 22, 2005 #41 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Evening, you forgot Wicca/Paganism in your post. I believe that religions were originally peaceful, but poeple saw ways of using them to gain power. Religion later became the laws that transcend normal laws. If you kill a man, then you are executed. But if you believe in religion, not only do you die, you burn in hell for all time. I just think that when people stopped listening to normal laws, religion was bent to keep people in controll. If you really read up on it you will find that most, if not all, religions give lip service to love and peace, all the while stirring up their members to go out and kill the "infidel", with the "infidel" being any who believe differently than they do. Yeah, when was the last time you heard of a Buddhist or a Wiccan go out and kill "infidels"? If you think, perhaps, that Hitler wasn't using religon to justify killing Jews, or that Muslim clerics aren't using religion to promote suicide bombers, you are sadly mistaken. Actually, Hitler used evolution as one of the reasons to wipe out the "impure". Hitler also had a falling out with religion, and had his men destroy and burn churches, because they went against his authority. Radical Muslims promote suicide bombers. Radical Muslims are like the KKK here in the states. And how many people do you know that are in the KKK because they are Christian? Very few people use religion as an excuse for war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putte Posted July 22, 2005 #42 Share Posted July 22, 2005 If you think, perhaps, that Hitler wasn't using religon to justify killing Jews, or that Muslim clerics aren't using religion to promote suicide bombers, you are sadly mistaken. I don't have much to add other than what Byuu94 just stated. And just because some people are using religion as a way to make people do things doesn't mean the religion actually promotes it. You must be one who believed that the Christians and Muslims in Yugoslavia were getting along so nicely under Tito was because they wanted to. 747153[/snapback] One thing I will NOT tolerate is people shoving words or opinions down my throat. Whatever I think about those events, YOU are not to tell me. Radical Muslims are like the KKK here in the states. And how many people do you know that are in the KKK because they are Christian? 747449[/snapback] This was the exact thing a muslim, interviewed on radio here, said about the terrorist acts that have taken place. And how true is it not? How many actually think the KKK are actually christian, except for themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sairam_lfc Posted July 22, 2005 #43 Share Posted July 22, 2005 A Point that cannot be emphasized enough, I don't want to offend anyone. But religions follow common sense, and common sense comes from man. Of course we can debate it, anyday, anytime, but no religion out there is perfect, a big reason why we fight over religions today, and its not perfect for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacca Posted July 22, 2005 #44 Share Posted July 22, 2005 I have to agree with you Larry, a lot of people do bad things in the name of religion. That's painfully obvious throughout history. And no matter how much people try to change that, they can't. But I also don't think sugar coating it helps anything either, don't make excuses for sins of the past if you do that no one will ever learn from it, people do bad things it happens. I for one don't like excuses I think people should own up to their own opinions and actions. Everyone is entitled to their own thoughts, I won't stop thinking or speaking for fear of offending someone because they don't agree. I think religion is to blame for a lot of things in this world, or at least the people who use that as an excuse or cause...but who knows, that's just my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Posted July 22, 2005 #45 Share Posted July 22, 2005 bacca - bad people will do bad things with or without religion, it's just that religion is particularly maleable (with so much of its scripture/ teachings open to interpretation) and makes an easy vessel for corruption and evil. At the end of the day any movement will eventually turn rotten, just as communism will never work because there will always be someone who believes they are more 'equal' than everyone else, religion will always have its zeaots and will always have those that think it's okay to ignore the basics of being a decent human in the name of some divinity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted July 24, 2005 #46 Share Posted July 24, 2005 I think my behavior is determined by my beliefs it does seem to me that man has created a religion that has a God that is needy and if his needs aren't met very vengeful and punishing and there are countless storys in the bible that describe this God as very difficult to please if you can please him at all. Very few have been able too, the penalty for displeasing this God is often death o or famine or your children etc.. The truth is many not a few but many take this LITERALLY, Thats what I observe, I am not religious and I have no trouble being a good person and have found that is is natu ral behavior religon teaches people are inherently defect and not capable of kinowing right from wrong, I don't buy that at all, I have the personal experience of being a better person without religion. Shouldn't I trust my personal experience versus what the bible tells me I am??? Especially when there is no truth to it. Namaste sheri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faeden Posted July 24, 2005 #47 Share Posted July 24, 2005 (edited) To say that religion was not responsible for 9/11 or most wars is a little strange in my view, what if religion was never invented, would 9/11 or many of the wars have happened? No of course not. Some people are always going to be bad yes, but if religion vanished over night so would a hell (excuse the pun) of a lot of evil and wars and bad things. Bad things would still happen, but the world would be a much more friendly place that is for certain. If humans are born evil, why does god keep creating new ones, knowing so many of them will go to hell? Does "he" think its a game? All the best Faeden Edited July 24, 2005 by Faeden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted July 25, 2005 #48 Share Posted July 25, 2005 To say that religion was not responsible for 9/11 or most wars is a little strange in my view, what if religion was never invented, would 9/11 or many of the wars have happened? No of course not. Some people are always going to be bad yes, but if religion vanished over night so would a hell (excuse the pun) of a lot of evil and wars and bad things. Bad things would still happen, but the world would be a much more friendly place that is for certain. If humans are born evil, why does god keep creating new ones, knowing so many of them will go to hell? Does "he" think its a game? All the best Faeden 751486[/snapback] Faeden, I agree we would be alot better off without the invention of religion and I would add that religon in order to be effective has to teach you that what you are isn't good enough they have to get you to doubt in your own natural inherent goodness, there are only two natural fears that humans are born with the fear of falling and the fear of loud noises all other fears are taught and I believe we are inherently good naturally made of good quality ( religion is the only system that teaches otherwise) If we were highly evvolved humans we would not be teaching with fear we would be guiding with love. In order for humanity to grow we have got to stop teaching that God is to be feared and that God is vengeful and God is demanding and has needs that have to be met, That is not God and those that belive that have to be willing to admit that they don't know everything their is to know about God and be willing to explore new ideas about god and the universe, For some reason religion is teaching from the viewpoint of 2000 years ago based on those times insisting that those are good methods even though the evidence is mounting those ideas are the source of the problems. Sorry to preach Namaste sheri. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putte Posted July 25, 2005 #49 Share Posted July 25, 2005 To say that religion was not responsible for 9/11 or most wars is a little strange in my view751486[/snapback] I don't think so. These attacks don't have anything to do with religion, in my opinion. They happened because some people are jealous, perhaps, of the freedom in western society. If someone is to blame religion, then how come so many muslims disagreed with what happened? How come there are not more suicide bombers - doesn't their religion preach that? If not, how come a few persons ran three planes into three buildings? Where in their holy texts does it tell them to do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Posted July 25, 2005 #50 Share Posted July 25, 2005 True religion has been responsible for many wars and even more attrocities, but at the end of the day evil people will always do such things - with or without religion. If someone wanted an excuse to persecute a certain group of people they would not need religion to do it. Just look at Eugenics. Gypsies, Jews and many others were massacred in Nazi Germany because of face shape. That had nothing to do with religion, but the 'validation' for murder was provided by the theory of Eugenics. It does not take religion to start wars, it just needs one nutcase who thinks they have a cause they can pursuade others to join in with and follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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