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morpheas

Congressman says bomb Mecca if US attacked

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__Kratos__
Congressman says bomb Mecca if US attacked

do that and you have a holy war, seriously you increase the number of terrorists by a few 100%. Actuall stratch that, a few 1000%. Osama will love you for it, in fact he'll probably bomb the US now hoping you'll actually do it.

Plus Mecca is full of innocent people who have nothing to do with this, you make yourselves as bad as the terrorists by killing civilians to get revenge for them killing yours.

741362[/snapback]

No kidding... if you really want to burn Islam attack their people while they are on their Hajj! That always makes them warm and fuzzy inside... rolleyes.gif

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Talon

I really hope Kratos your not serious.

Its terrifying, America's being fighting this war on terror for 4 years now, and they still have no idea how to avoid making them.

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__Kratos__
I really hope Kratos your not serious.

Its terrifying, America's being fighting this war on terror for 4 years now, and they still have no idea how to avoid making them.

741377[/snapback]

blink.gif Did you miss my roll eyes smiley? I mean that as a BAD thing. Hajj is one of their most holy things for the 5 pillars... to travel to Mecca at least once in their life time. It would be insanely bad, to attack a bunch of innocent people on their spiritual pilgrimage, let alone the most holy city to the largest religion on earth. Nearly every single Muslim would take up arms vs America... the world would shake... hmm.gif

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Talon
Did you miss my roll eyes smiley?

Oh I saw them, but that emoticon at the end of that sentence has many meanings.

It would be insanely bad, to attack a bunch of innocent people on their spiritual pilgrimage, let alone the most holy city to the largest religion on earth. Nearly every single Muslim would take up arms vs America... the world would shake...

Well at least one of you knows that huh.gif now we have to try and convince Babs and Bush hmm.gif oh.... the world's over

Edited by Talon

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warden

It wont hapen so there will be no need to convince Babs no.gif i think she knows that

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Mekorig

Has usuall, Babs say something nationalistic and retrograd enought to flame and entire threath, but lets take some prediction if the USA bombs or nuke Mecca after a WMD terrorist attack in USA soil.

Pakistan, the soo called ally of the USA will crumble and become a full muslim kingdom. The ruling house of Saudi Arabia will fall, and a worse group will be put in charge. In irak, the few people how like the coalitions troops will desapear, leaving the troops in a extremely hostile country. Around the world ythe muslims will call for revenge, countless small terrorist cell will born, and the already stablished terrorist groiups will grow. Any USA citizen outside the USA soil will be in danger of retaliation from angry muslims all over the world. Even in the USA the msulims already there will be restless.

In resume, a bad and stupid idea. Lets die this treath and go on more sensate and interesting themes.

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Babs

Hey, you guys don't have to convince me of killing innocent people, I don't want to do that. sad.gif

I am listening and you make reasonable arguments. geek.gif But am I convinced on the best way to go about ending this war?... NO.

If you have a better proposition, I wish you'd spill it. The British say they have been through all this sort of thing in their past ...and they say the U.S. is doing things wrong blink.gif ... that it won't work.

Well, what DOES work?

.....to me, going in there and wiping the terrorists out, and unfortunately, innocent blood will be spilt, is better than a protracted war, where many 'more' lives will be lost. This is my idea about ending the war on terror. Yes, it's hard to contemplate and it's hard to stomach, but in the long run, it will do the job and be more humane.

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Talon
.....to me, going in there and wiping the terrorists out, and unfortunately, innocent blood will be spilt, is better than a protracted war, where many 'more' lives will be lost. This is my idea about ending the war on terror. Yes, it's hard to contemplate and it's hard to stomach, but in the long run, it will do the job and be more humane.

Who says all the terrorists are in Mecca?

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wunarmdscissor

lol and babs makes her return.

"when i see all those muslims kneeling in one place....."

"they kill our innocents we kill theirs"

mmm so u know for a fact that it was every citizen of mecca that aided the 9/11 , madrid or 7/7 attacks.

another point , would you like to condone the US , bombing of the north east of england, becuas ethe bombers from london 3 outta 4 where born and bred in britian. that must make yorkshire responsible.

what a daft , ill thought line of "reasoning"

and then once we've slaughtered these innocent people in the name of .......god knows what shes on about.............

where does it end?

i know babs i know ive got it genious lets just kill all muslims , that would solve the problem, and dont even try to pretend that you havent thought about it.

i can see it everytime you post on this subject.

genocide thats a good way for a civilsed people to act.

so the next time a US bomb kills tens of innocent people , can we bomb a US city in revenge. sorry wait but we'r ethe good guys , our actions should never come into question.

babs how would slaughtering innocent people help our cause???????????????????????????????????????

or do u just want blood, blood of children , women?

ya know people like you have been working american foreign policy for decades , its no wonder we cant stop tese evil terrorists from brainwashing weans.

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Babs

No...the terror sites and holy sites. I wish the terrorists were all in Mecca, kneeling in prayer, I would nuke um. Then that would be that, but I can see that that is a hard thing to accomplish. What is your proposition?

And, wun, could you not get all emotional? grin2.gif

Edited by Babs

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wunarmdscissor
to me, going in there and wiping the terrorists out, and unfortunately, innocent blood will be spilt, is better than a protracted war, where many 'more' lives will be lost. This is my idea about ending the war on terror. Yes, it's hard to contemplate and it's hard to stomach, but in the long run, it will do the job and be more humane.

oh yeah its much more humane.

we are so humane.

and if you bomb innocent people , babs , and you support the bombing of innocent people.

then you are no better than the scum who support terrorists.

cant you see you are the same?????????

you are the same as the people whos aid 9/11 was a great thing?

and you arent sharp enough to see that bombing innocents means the terrosists win, and they will get their "holy war".

all because of short sighted americans who refuse to take advice , or even consider other possibilities.

i just hope american politicians arent as right wing as many of its populas.

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Babs

Stop the emotionality. grin2.gif What are your solutions, wun?

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Babs

See, this is what happens, you talk about what is wrong with the U.S., but you have no ideas. blush.gif

Hey, I can see us all going 'down the tubes' with these big plans, wun. thumbsup.gif

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wunarmdscissor

emotionality?

id like to see how youd post if i came on saying" 9/11 was a great thing, lets kill innocent americans?"

my solution lol ive told you countless times , theyre ALWAYS the posts you never respond to, it certainly doesnt involve the slaughter of millions of muslims.

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Babs

Well, hit me with it baby! geek.gif

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wunarmdscissor
Were there no failed diplomatic attempts within those 30 or hundreds of years? That's what I'm asking.

In a word yes, however having lived here and but a bit of research into the UK governement's proposals then you can see why the terrorists rejected it, the diplomatic solutions before Mo Molwam's era were token , a clear attempt at distractio and the republicans were not that stupid.

So in parralell i would suggest any attempt by america to communicate must'nt be an attempt at a diversion to hide forceful intentions (never works in the end) and must be fresh , ie no pre-conceptions.

The UK in fact had to change its entire political and even ideaological stance over the last 30 years with regards to Ireland. Surely you cannot deny that this has resulted in the hatred that was bred by our old political and ideological stance being worn away. They dont hate the brits with the passion they once did because , and i draw parralells, we are not the imperial conqeurers anymore . The islaofascists who say we are the great satan and attempt to breed their hatred against us would find it far more difficult if america changed its political stance and ideology even just slightly on some subjects.

30 years is along time to wait for diplomacy and tweaking of our image , but we'd suffered for centuries because we originally we were an imperial tyrant that never shook that image.

QUOTE

Were the hardliners mostly killed off, and those left, after seeing what they had seen for generations, become more diplomatic?

No the people of the repblic of ireland still want a united ireland, they want it as much as the people of the middle east seem to want rid of us, however teh difference being becuase of diplomacy , concession and image we are far more stomachable neighbours to have.

The terrorists cannot breed the hatred in the common man as they once did. Its not that they were killed off , if we couldnt do that over centuries with FAR more brutal tactics and at times a free licence with no human rights bars then why over the last 30 years would we have been able to wipe out the hardliners.

Its like in the middle east the more force we use the more unproductive it becomes.

Shock and awe was a public relations disaster, the fact their was liitle or no thought or planning applied to what we were actually going to do when we got into Iraq was a public Relations diaster. I dont beleiev that the american soldiers were prepared/ trained well enough as an occupying force. The reason i say this is becuase the brits experienced the time of hit and run tactics in ireland , the guerrila warfare experience has shown with less casualties and less inflamed situations.

This is another reason why there are more and more terrorist attacks occuring daily. If you cant breed fear and hatred then you cant breed terrorists.

The terrorists are using america's extremely poor public relations, somewhat hardline international policy and their stand on isreal as a weapon . Its like the old using your resources against you network attack.

QUOTE

Was the climate such that a diplomatic solution could have been found in those early years knowing what we know now?

Of course it was, learn from your mistakes.

I happen to beleive and this is my personal opinion, that Tony Blair entered the war not because he beleieved in WMD's or Saddam's terrorist dealings. I beleiev he entered becuase he knew america's lack of experience and right wing hawks would eventually result in disaster. I do beleieve ridding the world of saddam was good of course i do. I just beleieve that without tBlair's calming influence this wouldve been a complete quagmire. Blair saw THAT as the real threat to tthe UK's security.

I think after his experience in N.ireland he was attemptinga public relations makeover, beduase G.W.Bush sure as hell doesnt have the nous to carry it off.

QUOTE

How could that end have been achieved at the early stages instead of escalating into what it was? Did modernizing have anything to do with it? Government structure?

Answered that part in the first response.

QUOTE

If there's a parallel, and a good diplomatic solution could have been found, then the intellectual elites should know exactly what to do to end this right now. They should be able to find the exact words to get both sides to stop the violence and better the country. All I'm hearing is that they don't like the war for <insert popular position here> instead of solutions... if there's a diplomatic solution, history should evidence it, so that's why I'm asking.

they attempted to , and its becaus eyou arent listening in the right places. Regime change was always on the cards for this and possibly previous american governemnt administrations pre-9/11 , anyone who beleievs otherwise is naive.

Its like people on this site who beleieve that america has absolutley nothing to do with the volatile situation in the middle east, that their undying unavering support of israel coupled with poor decision followed by poor decision in the middle east is no reason for hatred to have been bred against them.

That was the attitude of the british for centuries and look where it got us , 30 years now look where we are.

IN FACT!! its since labour took to the negotiating table that weve really seen change , since we abandoned far right politics , a decade of change has seen the peace process actually become a process not just a smokescreen.

Perhaps if america even entertained the thought that teh far right isnt always the best place to be on every matter then maybe the hatred the terrorists can breed will begin to die away.

QUOTE

Would be sweet if we could figure out how to fix the situation here on the site. Then we could forward it to the heads of state and the insurgency and be done with it.

why dont we. You have the ability to do that.

In my Opinion If you voted bush and the right wing in then you didnt take that opportunity what i will say though in your defence the choice america had was pretty like for like the, the republicans and democrats are for all intensive purposes teh same . Americas political process isnt as diverse as most countries and i think its ashame. Espeically when you see the lieks of how a Left wong polititcian like George Galloway can light up the political theatre with barnstorming, granstanding.

Its your vote i voted labour because of their success in many things n.ireland beng one of them.

Its not smooth sailing, at the moment tensions in N.Ireland are rising again , however this very day Tony Blair himself is meeting both Gerry Adams the President if Sinn Fein An Ian Paisley the leader of the DUP.

Negotiation. IM willing to bet he'll get somwhere with them.

Ive tried to answer as much of your post as i could.

I did find it refreshing that you asked me those questions in a frank but fair manner and it didnt need to come down to us throwing insults at each other as these debates so often end up.

heres a repost of an earlier conversation i had with celumnaz, pick out relative comments.

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Talon

Actually Win, American terrorism is worse than Islamic terrorism at a theoretial level. As Islamic terrorism is carried out by fringe groups or dictatorships, but American terrorism is carried out by an elected government represented the entire American people.

And Babs, there is no quick fix to terrorism, it'll will last forever as long as someone thinks they can get something by blowing themselves up, or firing missle into civilian areas. And going into Mecca, destorying it, and turning the entire religion against the west rather than few extremists is not going to help this issue.

Its scary that people with views such as this congressman have the right to vote.

Edited by Talon

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wunarmdscissor
And going into Mecca, destorying it, and turning the entire religion against the west rather than few extremists is not going to help this issue

even an ounce of forsight could tell ya that one eh talon lol.

i simply cannot beleive that she thinks that it is both civilised and even productive to commit such an atrocity.

i mean it makes , hitlers rise to power in germany a little bit more understandable , how "normal" people can back such horrible genocidal acts??????????

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Talon
i mean it makes , hitlers rise to power in germany a little bit more understandable , how "normal" people can back such horrible genocidal acts??????????

sadly yes, remember what the Americans did in Veitnam. Terrifying sad.gif

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Stixxman

Don't anybody fool themselves here this is not about and never has been about religion. This entire conflict has always been about money and power. The religious connotations on both sides are just window dressing. Somewhere at sometime it all leads to the same source, the control of many by the few. The few are not elected representatives of the people they are conglomerate owners eyeing their bottom line. These fundamentalists had to come from somewhere and that is the direction they came from. They are nothing more than tools of powerful people with their own agendas. For the states it is economical viable to be in a state of war, their entire economy is based on armed conflict. If you did a study of the activity on wallstreet during US forces participation in armed conflict you will notice the benefits they enjoyed, then compare the activity during periods when the armed forces of the US were on stand down. And doesn't it seem strange to anybody that both Osama and Sadam have the US to thank for the power and influence they weald today. And isn't it odd that Osama still runs free. And Sadam seems to be in some sort of legal limbo? Its a complicated chess game where the rule of thumb is things are not what they appear at all. The solution is not to bomb Mecca the solution is where it has always been. In the youth, this problem is beyond our control now and will have to play itself out in due time with mixed results. But the action now should be on the youth. People fear and mistrust what they don't know so the best solution is mass cultural exchanges. Kinda like the simple life show but meaningful. Youth from rich western countries should spend time in countries in the third world and vice versa. This should be sponsored by governments themselves. It should be when young people are about to start making their mark, instead of going off to college right away they should travel and learn. And sending people from these countries would educate them about the advantages of our society and what it has to offer, and hopefully enrich a stagnating western culture. This kind of program is the ideal but any part of it would be beneficial.

Edited by Stixxman

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zephyr

I wonder what the congressman has in mind, the use of conventional bombs or one of those exciting nukes Babs likes to joggle with so much? grin2.gif

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__Kratos__
I wonder what the congressman has in mind, the use of conventional bombs or one of those exciting nukes Babs likes to joggle with so much? grin2.gif

742657[/snapback]

Would it really matter what we used? Still will get the same reaction... umm... DUH?

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Faeden

solutions to the terrorist acts Hmmmmm

I would say a good start is that both sides realise that both Jesus and Allah would never tolerate the murder of innocence FULL STOP!!!.

Another good start was that Bush started looking into clean and free sources of energy, and except that you just cant profit as much from clean energy, and that oil is a thing of the past, not only because it causes wars, but because it destroys our home the earth.

And one of the biggest things is America will have to come to terms with the fact that it can be wrong, and that it is not perfect and makes mistakes.

Its no surprise is it really, that you have this attitude in America, when your leader says things like ‘We are a free country, yet you criticise us, even slightly, and you are the enemy, and are against America’ Its no wonder theirs so many fearful ignorant people in the states, that cant see a dictator warlord from there own butt.

With Bush using this and that to constantly keep the Americans terrified, with amber alert here, and amber alert there, its no wonder they put Bush back into power "so that he can keep all his sheep protected and safe" The more enemies they make for them selves, with there craving to direct power over others, the more at risk Americans it will become.

America need to take responsibility for some of the blame, and stop blaming everyone else, if you have the attitude that I am right, and everyone else is wrong, what hope does anyone have? Its no surprise that most of the world is turning against the states, its sad because America is a great country, its just a shame that ignorance and fear is destroying it.

There is no doubt that 9/11 was evil and disgusting, but so was the illegal continued war in Iraq, Jesus taught that two wrongs do not make a right, yet America a so called "Christian country" is abusing Jesus’ teachings. In the Quran it states that killing innocence is wrong, yet some Muslims are doing just that, abusing Mohammed’s teachings.

All the best

Satan

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Stixxman

All it would do is turn one faction into a thousand, pointless and counter productive.

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__Kratos__
And one of the biggest things is America will have to come to terms with the fact that it can be wrong, and that it is not perfect and makes mistakes.

742729[/snapback]

Pretty sure, have made mistakes in the past... yeah, so? You can't let mistakes rule you.

I like how most of you turn this ONE guy's comment into all of America. For that, you are all stupid in saying that. yes.gif It is no different then a black man killing someone and then you blame it all on the entire African race.

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