Criss Angel: Mind Freak

[FireFrog]

But it was just rude, in my opinion, to judge everyone who posted in this thread like that.

I apologise. The comment was relating more to the people involved in the Metaphysics section before this topic became merged, or more specifically, Hailo.

Edited August 1, 2005 by FireFrog

[_hAiLO_]

But it was just rude, in my opinion, to judge everyone who posted in this thread like that.

I apologise. The comment was relating more to the people involved in the Metaphysics section before this topic became merged, or more specifically, Hailo.

765631[/snapback]

I'm sorry if I'm getting on your last nerve, but i'm just believing and stating what my opinions say.

I thank Faeden for a very reasonable, and very explanatory explanation. We all learn here, I have just learned from Faeden, and to come closer to what an illusion really is. I'm trying to absorb what you guys are saying, that his stunts are merely illusions. I can let levitation slip away and i'll think about mirrors for a while.

But did any of you see when he performed his Voodoo Doll tricks? He poked the voodoo doll, and the people reacted like they were the actual doll.

I'm sorry to bring anymore contradictions, or anymore situations...but the fact that every single thing he did that was percieved through the, lets say 'gullible' eye, are faked is kinda extreme...

[maryjo1975]

Ok. This is what I want to know. On his show he does one BIG trick. Like the barrel, the bed of nails with the SUV, ect.

Thos things I dont believe for a second is anything but good, old fashioned, magic. Nothing paranormal. YOu can see how he does the trick and what goes into it.

But what I dont get is the smaller tricks he does during the rest of the show.

Like turning water into beer.

Making the pen in the glass move and the breaking the glass.

Swallowing sewing needles and thread and then pulling it out of his belly button.

Throwing the deck of cards against the bus window and the one that the girl signed being on the OUTSIDE of the bus.

The voodoo doll.

The levitating.

This is the stuff that confuses me. LOL! HOW did the card get on the outside of the bus??

HOW did the glass break?

I wont go back over the rest of them. You get my point. LOL!

I am sure there must be a way he does these things....but I cant figure it out.

Anyone have any ideas?

[_hAiLO_]

A way to do these things? According to logic, and probably without rigs, these stunts are gauranteed impossible! And with a camera crew being there to witness it, and sometimes take footage of the entire suroundings (all 360 degrees), sometimes there aren't any rigs.

I have no idea how he does it. But though the repeatedly denied possibility of a paranormality, I don't see how impossibility becomes mere TV Show stunts...

I would really want a skeptic to come forward to help explain in deeper that these are only illusions...and possibly how these illusions were performed.

Edited August 3, 2005 by _hAiLO_

[maryjo1975]

A way to do these things? According to logic, and probably without rigs, these stunts are gauranteed impossible! And with a camera crew being there to witness it, and sometimes take footage of the entire suroundings (all 360 degrees), sometimes there aren't any rigs.

I have no idea how he does it. But though the repeatedly denied possibility of a paranormality, I don't see how impossibility becomes mere TV Show stunts...

I would really want a skeptic to come forward to help explain in deeper that these are only illusions...and possibly how these illusions were performed.

769601[/snapback]

Well....that was no help. LOL!!! Kidding.

That is what I dont understand. Some things...like the ring in the ice, the card outside the bus, the needle and thread...

It is the small stunts that are unexplainable. The BIG stunts are just that....stunts. Not really "magic". The other stuff I guess IS magic since it cant be explained. At least not by us.

If you check out his website they constantly refer to what he does as illusions.

I dont know but I REALLY want to!!!!! LOL!!

[JayeBrady]

I think it's very simple...he's doing exactly what it looks like he's doing. And he's doing it by manipulating energy.

"Everything's impossible...'til it ain't."

My favorite part is still the frisbee.

[_hAiLO_]

I think my favorite would be the VooDoo Doll thing

Its like...Satanic, but I really can't say so unless I understand how he does it.

[JayeBrady]

I think my favorite would be the VooDoo Doll thing

Its like...Satanic, but I really can't say so unless I understand how he does it.

771363[/snapback]

I think he has spent years mastering his mind, and energy...and also would say it's the total opposite of Satanic.

I'm not saying I believe evvvvery single thing he does, I think there's a hidden key involved with the barrel escape type of stuff, but some things...I guess I look at them and think hmmm, maybe we don't "know" everything we think we do.

[_hAiLO_]

Yeah, 'Illusions' is like one of my new favorite Unexplained Mysteries

My friend is an Ametuer Magician. I'm going to confront him with my illusion issue.

[Mindfreak]

I agree. Why do you think Criss Angel is famous and why do we discuss him here, it's simple because he's a freaking magician and does amazing tricks the problem is that we don't know how he does that and we are so curious. If you cannot explain it it doesn't mean that it's magic.

I should say his levitation is f.....ing amazing.

[Kalabalana]

I can't believe I made an account to respond in these forums, but the amazing, just astounding minds at work in this forum are begging my input.

First and foremost: There is currently, and has never been anyone who has displayed supernatural powers (in the relatively short documented past). The most probable reason for this, is because such powers do not exist. NB. the above does allow the benefit of the doubt, and as such allows for the existence of certain people with paranormal ability who have kept the ability quiet to the world.

Secondly, lets say supernatural powers do exist... Why would these powers be so geared to these very specific and similarly arranged tricks? Surely such powers are vast and applicable to things beyond exclusively bending utensils (Why not warp them? Expand them?), and levitating people in a specific and non-adaptable pattern? Hell, why not levitate a tree? A ball? Or just levitate someone in different positions rather then the exact same position each time?

Lastly, why would a person exhibit their power for all to see? Why would you be an entertainer? Why would you be working in some run down place reading fortunes and such? Also, there are several monetary awards for those who can display their paranormal powers, for example a million dollar award to anyone who can display paranormal ability in any form can be found here: James Randi's Paranormal Challenge.

(Also, the total number of people to have successfully and empirically displayed such powers is up to: 0 now.) (That's means no one has ever done it.)

The fact of the matter is, the people who do believe in such powers are uninformed, and ignorant. I am not trying to insult/berate, or look down on anyone here, as most people do not have such a specific education. But in reality, while there is still so so much left unexplained, we cannot ignore what has been explained and what we already have learned/observed.

Magicians/Illusionists/etc make their money playing off of the general public's inability to see through their tricks. For example, Uri Gellar (I think that's his name) is a prime example. Watching his video's often shows the tricks he employs to fool his audience. Arguably, he is what most people would consider 'The real deal' when it comes to supernatural powers. On a side note, there are those deluded/confused individuals who may believe they have powers of their own, and as such should be excluded from the initial content of this paragraph.

Well I guess I've rambled on, but hopefully I have stressed some of the more valuable points to help explain this specific topic to any who have not already come to a similar understanding. Anyways, feel free to question any of my points, I may come back and read them. Also I cannot promise to respond to non-informed and/or biased posts. I guess what I'm saying is; often an open mind is the one most closed!

Thank you for your time!

Edit: I downloaded all 5 current episodes of Criss Angel's show, I love his tricks, and can only seem to explain most of them as having 'informed' audiences, and cut scenes. But then again, I could be dead wrong . Half the fun is in not figuring out the tricks!

Edited August 8, 2005 by Kalabalana

[Faeden]

Hi Kalabalana

I can't believe I made an account to respond in these forums, but the amazing, just astounding minds at work in this forum are begging my input.

Its great to have such intelligent knowledgeable folk like you to enlighten us all, what a god send you are, we need guidance from you, as we are all dilutional, thanks for coming to our rescue.

First and foremost: There is currently, and has never been anyone who has displayed supernatural powers (in the relatively short documented past). The most probable reason for this, is because such powers do not exist. NB. the above does allow the benefit of the doubt, and as such allows for the existence of certain people with paranormal ability who have kept the ability quiet to the world.

There have been many. One of them spiritualist medium Leslie Flint. Leslie is the most scientifically tested medium in the history of mediumship, after years of insulting testing, the scientists involved where left gob smacked, and could not come up with a scientific explanation as to how he did it.

For more information on this click on the following link... Leslie Flint thread

I do not completely trust Uri Gellar, but he also did a telekinesis experiment on a scientific lab in the 70s or 80s where he moved a metal rod over a flat table, none of the scientists could figure out how he did it, but after said ‘blah!!! He is just is a very clever trickster, and we do not know yet how he did it’ and then conveniently forgot about it.

Secondly, lets say supernatural powers do exist... Why would these powers be so geared to these very specific and similarly arranged tricks? Surely such powers are vast and applicable to things beyond exclusively bending utensils (Why not warp them? Expand them?), and levitating people in a specific and non-adaptable pattern? Hell, why not levitate a tree? A ball? Or just levitate someone in different positions rather then the exact same position each time?

Because being human puts a limit to we can do when it comes to the supernatural, just as we have limits when it comes to the physical, but training causes us to become better at what ever it is we want to do, whether it be spiritual, or physical, or mental for that matter.

Lastly, why would a person exhibit their power for all to see? Why would you be an entertainer? Why would you be working in some run down place reading fortunes and such? Also, there are several monetary awards for those who can display their paranormal powers, for example a million dollar award to anyone who can display paranormal ability in any form can be found here: James Randi's Paranormal Challenge.

(Also, the total number of people to have successfully and empirically displayed such powers is up to: 0 now.) (That's means no one has ever done it.)

Because most spiritual beliefs have morals, where you are not to be benefit financially from spiritual gifts and talents (although many do ) Yet the ones that do benefit financially from supernatural ability more than not turn out to be the ones that are fraudulent..

Lets talk about James Randi, an arrogant scientists (someone that is all ready convinced the supernatural is all fake) that promised 1 million $ to anyone that could prove the paranormal real. I cant be bothered to search for it now, but if you like, if your interested ill dig it out for you, where a women did prove it to him and he refused to take notice of it, I cant remember all the details, but as I said if your interested ill dig it up for you. Are you also aware that a spiritualists organisation also offered Randi 1 million $ also if he could scientifically prove that the supernatural is fake? They are still waiting for Randi to prove it. Randi's research is null and void and worthless, because he is out to prove nothing else other than the supernatural is all fake, he only looks at one side of the argument, if you only have one agenda and goal how are you going to investigate anything fairly? Its like someone doing a murder investigation convinced from the very start that the accused is guilty, and only looking at the evidence for him being guilty and ignoring all the evidence that he is innocent. Randi is a media attention seeking ignoramus…

The fact of the matter is, the people who do believe in such powers are uninformed, and ignorant. I am not trying to insult/berate, or look down on anyone here, as most people do not have such a specific education. But in reality, while there is still so so much left unexplained, we cannot ignore what has been explained and what we already have learned/observed.

To say that people that believe in the supernatural are ignorant an uneducated is preposterous..... Some of the most excellent people of our time and the past have believed in god and the supernatural I do not know where you got your education or information that caused you to come up with that belief?

Magicians/Illusionists/etc make their money playing off of the general public's inability to see through their tricks. For example, Uri Gellar (I think that's his name) is a prime example. Watching his video's often shows the tricks he employs to fool his audience. Arguably, he is what most people would consider 'The real deal' when it comes to supernatural powers. On a side note, there are those deluded/confused individuals who may believe they have powers of their own, and as such should be excluded from the initial content of this paragraph.

I think your find that most people interested in the paranormal think Uri Gellar is a fraud. You really should do your home work before you comment on these things.

I may come back and read them. Also I cannot promise to respond to non-informed and/or biased posts. I guess what I'm saying is; often an open mind is the one most closed!

Well I do hope I am considered informed enough to be honoured with your reply, you truly have to be a exceptional individual to be worthy of your response I hope I suit the requirements.

All the best

Faeden

Edited August 8, 2005 by Faeden

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

A friend of mind got to party with Criss Angel about 6 months ago in Vegas. He said the guy carries himself like a rock star. He questioned him about his illusions, and the guys said they were complex tricks that he had designed. He said the whole point is to make people wonder if this is this real. My friend told me this guy is making mega bucks from his show in Vegas. He said overall he seemed to be a nice guy. He said that this guys hair is thinning on top thats why he wears hats alot.

Edited August 8, 2005 by ericraven2003

[Kalabalana]

Thank you Faeden, and I apologize for my original condescending tone, regardless of whether I thought any on this forum could have an intelligent conversation by no means justified the haughty stand I had taken in my previous post.

Also, there are some things we do not see eye to eye on, regardless of James Randi's supposed failure(s), there are many other places that would love to have any proof of supernatural power. Case and point would be both the Russian and American governments who had confidential programs researching the paranormal, and human applications thereof. America has since abandoned and declassified much, if not all of the materials providing a full debriefing on their research. They were not successful at reaching their goal of finding these powers. Where as the Russians in the past had often glorified and fabricated many supposed clairvoyants, they had even designed esp machines which to much acclaim, had once been used to give a heart attack to a public official. The information behind the Russian's actions have never been declassified, and provide a very fertile foundation for supernatural ability.

Unfortunately, many clairvoyants have been observed, and have performed mind boggling tricks in specific controlled environments. Like many great illusionists/magicians even mentalists, and combinations there within, such acts have been done before to the delight of the general public. While my personal knowledge of Leslie Flint is limited, but from a quick google search I see that he was a person used to channel or commune with the dead? Well we also have John Edward from crossing over who has similar powers, these seemingly irrefutable powers that allow him to talk to the dead (or channel their messages, whichever). Unfortunately, our ability to understand the 'power' of these people is in it's infancy at best. Unfortunately, through the lack of abundant supernatural powers in this world, we have never really invested the amount of interest as we have to causes like healthcare or the design of microchips. We can explain, but not quite duplicate, these 'gifted' people are masters in their field, like a star baseball player compared to his team, his players are good, but he's just a little better for some innate reason, or more experience. Though there are those who fight the flow and are investigating claims of the paranormal, headway is constantly being made, but it is slow.

Also associating god with the supernatural is a big no no, lets leave any associations between religion and the paranormal out of our arguments. Religion is a very fertile and ambiguous ground that could leverage clauses on either side of our argument.

As for Uri Gellar, I guess since he is one of the most popular illusionists, and since there have been investigative reports into him, rather then other people in the past few decades, I'd given him the credit I cannot give others. Plus I've seen too many people praising him and blindly believing in his 'powers'.

I have to go back to the money/fame/recognition issue, I cannot believe there is not a person with such powers who would in no way try to use these powers to further their life. Also, humans are made very similarly, everyone has some degree in any ability as the next person, and nobody has an ability that excels so much over anothers as to make the lesser persons ability seem dormant. If anything we all have supernatural powers, or we don't. Just like how even the most amazing math genius, and the least capable person in math, may both add 1+1 to the amazement of all.

Also please do not confuse me for being close minded, the whole idea of science is actually conceived from being open minded. If there were supernaturals powers it would be amazing, I've often wished we could live such lives, unfortunately, as things look, these powers do not exist outside of stories and beliefs. Lastly if supernatural powers were observable, science would with open arms adopt the fact, the scientific method is often used as a scapegoat for the lack of acknowledgment the paranormal receives, when it is actually constantly used to try and prove the existence.

[Hermai]

whoa...yes I did see this the other night. he did some pretty awesome stuff. I tried to figure it for an hour and could come up with no way for some things to be faked. hes pretty damn cool

[Faeden]

Hi Kalabalana

No need to apologise, sorry though if I was a little sarcastic lol

ile my personal knowledge of Leslie Flint is limited, but from a quick google search I see that he was a person used to channel or commune with the dead? Well we also have John Edward from crossing over who has similar powers, these seemingly irrefutable powers that allow him to talk to the dead (or channel their messages, whichever). Unfortunately, our ability to understand the 'power' of these people is in it's infancy at best.

If you click on the link I provided it will tell you quite a lot about Flint and the experiments he did.

You cant compare John Edward’s with Leslie Flint, the two are in completely different leagues. I am not a fan of John Edward’s as his hit rate is poor, and he asks to many questions to the sitter, which would suggest cold reading. Leslie flint on the other hand manifested voices from the middle of the room that calmed to be the voices of deceased people, and no scientific test could prove him a fake, or how he did it.

Its interesting you use John Edward’s as an example, because if you look at what most sceptics say they always use him, because he is one of the worst well known mediums there are, I assume your in America, so you wont know about Colin Fry and Gordon Smith, they are much more impressive than Edward’s in fact you have James Van Praggh and he goes out of his way not to ask many questions and asks his sitters to just say yes and no.

Also please do not confuse me for being close minded, the whole idea of science is actually conceived from being open minded. If there were supernaturals powers it would be amazing, I've often wished we could live such lives, unfortunately, as things look, these powers do not exist outside of stories and beliefs. Lastly if supernatural powers were observable, science would with open arms adopt the fact, the scientific method is often used as a scapegoat for the lack of acknowledgment the paranormal receives, when it is actually constantly used to try and prove the existence.

I think your find that many scientists are very closed minded, they believe in what is in there science books, and nothing more. Some of the most greatest of scientists and inventors have been the more open minded ones. Some scientists will never believe in the supernatural no matter what they see or experience, or are shown, because they will always find a natural explanation for it to comfort them selves, so that there science books are not contradicted and they will remain there holy bible.

All the best

Faeden

Edited August 8, 2005 by Faeden

[Kalabalana]

Well by the very definition of progress, things are happening that have not been done before, this cannot be achieved by a close minded community. In fact science is all about learning, and a close minded person cannot readily learn, or be told things they do not know in an extreme example. My point is while you have come into experience with close minded scientists, there are just so many more open minded ones. By your stance of course you would only come into contact with close minded ones who are confrontational.

Also these mediums you mentioned, I also have not heard of (btw I am not American), but if they did warrant something unexplainable, the fanfare and publications would be phenomenal, I do not see how you can argue against this. We are learning new things constantly, doing things we did not think can happen just recently, yet it keeps happening, but one thing that has existed nearly forever, and has never really been employed are the powers of the supernatural. I can't argue against the existence of supernatural powers because there is nothing there to argue for or against. These mediums must be popular in your inner circles, but if what they are doing is valid, this is world breaking news, the 6th sense is real. Imagine if we didn't know we could see, and we learned how to use our eyes, the implications and effects it would have on the world would be astronomical. This is in no way different from this supernatural power. The ramifications would be massively felt all over the world, rather then some small embodiments which occasionally occur and have been deemed questionable. Not every single person who can scientifically verify the validity of these men are close minded you see.

[Faeden]

Hi

but if they did warrant something unexplainable, the fanfare and publications would be phenomenal, I do not see how you can argue against this.

Well the high rise in paranormal interest, such as medium shows, and paranormal documentaries, and the huge explosion of the spiritualist and pagan movements seems to suggest that something phenomenal is happening, because people are amazed what they have seen and experienced, so I do not argue with it at all.

All the best

Faeden

[crissangelslave]

Criss Angel is a magician that does street magic.  If you know who David Blane is, they are very similar.  He does magic that I've never seen anyone else do before and I can't think of any way the tricks are done.  If anyone has seen Criss Angel's special or his show, you know what I'm talking about.  He has a new show on TLC called Criss Angel: Mind Freak, and it's on at 10:00 P.M. eastern, in the US.

Has anyone else seen Criss Angel's magic before?

745389[/snapback]

Have you seen that one with the voodoo doll?Hes so hot wish I met him!!!

[Kalabalana]

Hi

but if they did warrant something unexplainable, the fanfare and publications would be phenomenal, I do not see how you can argue against this.

Well the high rise in paranormal interest, such as medium shows, and paranormal documentaries, and the huge explosion of the spiritualist and pagan movements seems to suggest that something phenomenal is happening, because people are amazed what they have seen and experienced, so I do not argue with it at all.

All the best

Faeden

779646[/snapback]

Well I was referring to large fan base, as in, it becomes accepted knowledge as being true, front page of newspapers all over the world, new schools, vast articles with detailed information, massive grants from governments, etc. Everything you are saying is essentially new to me, and as far as knowledge goes, I tend to keep up on things beyond the normal person, so I am boggled by this supposed popularity. Also pagen movements, tv shows, spiritualist movements are nothing new, they can only grow, but then again, so has scientology, so has the mickey mouse club, so has the sponge bob square pants fan base.

[crissangelslave]

Hi

but if they did warrant something unexplainable, the fanfare and publications would be phenomenal, I do not see how you can argue against this.

Well the high rise in paranormal interest, such as medium shows, and paranormal documentaries, and the huge explosion of the spiritualist and pagan movements seems to suggest that something phenomenal is happening, because people are amazed what they have seen and experienced, so I do not argue with it at all.

All the best

Faeden

779646[/snapback]

Well I was referring to large fan base, as in, it becomes accepted knowledge as being true, front page of newspapers all over the world, new schools, vast articles with detailed information, massive grants from governments, etc. Everything you are saying is essentially new to me, and as far as knowledge goes, I tend to keep up on things beyond the normal person, so I am boggled by this supposed popularity. Also pagen movements, tv shows, spiritualist movements are nothing new, they can only grow, but then again, so has scientology, so has the mickey mouse club, so has the sponge bob square pants fan base.

779661[/snapback]

When I was a baby my moms mother had just died I was very young and then my mom picked me up then I pointed at the wall and said grandama It was a blake wall.

[Kalabalana]

ummm, ok

[Faeden]

LOL yeah, but it doesn’t matter how big sponge bob or Mickey mouse gets, its not world changing, if the scientific community came out officially and said that the after life exists, then the world would change dramatically, and there are folk including scientists that would be terrified at this possibility, also if science proved it to be real they would probably also prove that all of the major religions where wrong to, and that is not going to go down well is it?

All the best

Faeden

[Faeden]

When I was a baby my moms mother had just died I was very young and then my mom picked me up then I pointed at the wall and said grandama It was a blake wall.

Well kids are supposed to have just come from the spirit world, so they are more sensitive to it.

On the other hand it could have been something that reminded you of your grandma like a smell, or something your parents said that made you remember her, which made you say out her name.

All the best

Faeden

[crissangelslave]

And later I said the weirdest thing I asked my mom for a peanutbutter and mayonnaise sandwich.Thats what my moms mom made for my mom and her sister when they where young.