Racism, prejudice against Muslims

[Mr Ed]

Nope, telling one side of the story makes you unpopular on this board.

[warden]

Nope, telling one side of the story makes you unpopular on this board.

750966[/snapback]

XSAS tells the board what he has seen with his own eyes and we still get some people who cant let it filter throw their so called brains.

Just because certain people dont like to hear what really goes on in the big bad world ,doesnt mean you have to ignore it

Oh i forgot ,it must be crap as it wasnt on the news

[Mr Ed]

I wasn't talking about XSAS.

Just because certain people dont like to hear what really goes on in the big bad world ,doesnt mean you have to ignore it

I don't ignore it, I may appear to but I don't.

Vice Versa anyway.

Oh i forgot ,it must be crap as it wasnt on the news

Ah I could tell you don't often watch the news

[warden]

I wasn't talking about XSAS.

Just because certain people dont like to hear what really goes on in the big bad world ,doesnt mean you have to ignore it

I don't ignore it, I may appear to but I don't.

Vice Versa anyway.

Oh i forgot ,it must be crap as it wasnt on the news

Ah I could tell you don't often watch the news

750974[/snapback]

Well good for you

[Mr Ed]

Thanks

[Commander CMG]

Like I said I am far from Racist, this is how it is in West Yorkshire, in fact this is just a small % of what really goes on here.

[warden]

Like I said I am far from Racist, this is how it is in West Yorkshire, in fact this is just a small % of what really goes on here.

751085[/snapback]

I think it hapens in most cities ,i sometimes think the muslim community( not all) dont want to make the effort to integrate,why i suppose you will have to ask them,but it certainly isnt the problem of the non muslim communitys fault,again you would not think so the way the media portrays it

[Mr Ed]

I think that it is ridiculous that communities are built up in pockets and do not mix.

That is why intergration would be better.

[Rhomphaia]

Alright, I want everyone to know I am only using these words to illustrate a point. I do not use either in my everyday language and by and large, I find racial epithets offensive.

The use of the word '******' is pretty much exclisively meant to demean or belittle someone. This was the 'N' word I referred to earlier. This is one of the most offensive words or terms I know of because it denotes that the person is below the user of this word. The original meaning of this word I believe was a synonym for a slave originating from Africa.

'Niggah' on the other hand has become much like the word 'dude' has become here in the states. It is a twisting of a previously offensive word into something that denotes a certain level of kinship or friendship with the person being addressed.

And as for integration, humans put themselves among other like minded individuals so they better know where they stand with other people. It is an instinct. People must remember that at a base level, humans are territorial, pack minded predators. Keeping that in mind explains a lot, doesn't it?

It will take a long time to revert this instinct from a need to be with people who are most like yourself to a need to be with people with whom you can best work to mutual advantage. That is when an integrated society will become possible.

Edited July 24, 2005 by Rhomphaia

[Faeden]

All the Asian people I know work, some own there own businesses. Most of the people I see at my local dole office are white people with bottles of cider in there hands.

The word ****** was first used as a word to describe white trash kind of people, that where considered low lives, and had nothing to do with black people, it was only given to black people by racist white slave drivers, as an attempt to insult the black people of that time. Its ironic that most of the people that use the word ****** today are white trash, the ones that the word was originally aimed at, proof that racists are ignorant idiots.

All the best

Faeden

Edited July 24, 2005 by Faeden

[girty1600]

I am very lucky to live in an extremely integrated city with little to no racial tension. We have no "bad" neighborhoods or areas where mostly minorities live. Due to our strong economy jobs are abundant and unemployment is very low; I think that helps. Whites are not complaining about minorities taking their jobs because everyone already has a job. Race just does not seem to be an issue here. Purdue University, where I work, is located near-by where thousands of Muslim students of all ages attend. They live and work among the rest of the population with little problems. Something I try to implement with my multiracial employees is to keep an open dialog with each other. If you have a question about some one else's culture then, by all means, ask. Lack of information and communication can be deadly; I try eliminate that in my work environment and in my life.

[Pinowawa1]

I also believe that people should take the opportunity to asking more questions on different Cultures that they are not familiar with. When those who refrain from doing so, certain views which are based upon little knowledge tend to promote the wrong approach and in return cause mild conflict as seen in multi-faith/ ethnic societies (arising here in England).

So, applying Girty1600’s idea for especially those who have an uncertain feel to Muslims; gaining as much info and background on the Muslim faith as possible may broaden peoples horizon before making ignorant views and attitudes. As for __Kratos__'s comment on disaproving of the patriotic content in the Quaran, there is little consideration to the fact that Muslims DO NOT take everything as literally people think they do, especially when it comes to parts which state you should stand up for your beliefs that way! There is no Muslim that follows this content literally, unless they are the unfortunate ones who have been brain washed into the wrong way of life. There are those who have been taught the wrong things (that are completely irrelevant to the Quaran) and who have been brought up by idiots. It is the same for all religions, I can say the same thing for Christianity for instance.. In Medieval times christians believed from the Bibal such deeds of magic is wrong, and the performence of Miracles shall only be derived from God. There were those who believed it was right to murder/kill people who were supposedly in deeds with magic... I can give other murderous examples Not only in Christianity. What it all comes down to is that ALL RELIGIONS ARE EQUAL, they all have caused death. All religions are equal in terms of ways in reaching God.. they are just different ways.. They all can be handled the wrong way and be taken too far... and there are those people who are really dumb, stupid and evil who get the wrong idea and apply the wrong ideas and add new rediculous new ones.

__Kratos__

I'm gray area with Muslims... don't hate them but I can't like them either due to some things said in the Koran.

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

"If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)

"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)

"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)

"Try as you may, you cannot treat all your wives impartially." (Surah 4:126-)

"Forbidden to you are...married women, except those you own as slaves." (Surah 4:20-, 24-)

"If you wish to replace a wife with another, do not take from her the dowry you have given her..." (Surah 4:20)

"If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, His forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches..." (Surah 3:156-)

I know it is their culture and up bringing but I cannot agree with them on all issues.

__Kratos__ , you know n-o-t-h-i-n-g

[Watzel]

The problem is not the people of the middle east, it is their religion, and all religions. Religion needs to be outlawed. I mean people can have the freedom to believe and worship whatever God they want. But organized religion should be banned. It only has and still does create conflict between humans. A child, for example should be taught human empathy all through school, then when they enter college they can take a religion course and see which one they think appeals to them. But worship should be done in private, in the persons own dwelling. And it should never go beyond that point.

Right now Islam is being used as a weapon, and only innocent people are dying.

[Watzel]

Pinowawa1. actually Kratos is right, I have read the Koran (english translation) and it says exactly what he listed.

[Pinowawa1]

Watzel, I know it says that in the Quaran! I think you have just not taken in all that I have said previously! Their are such content in Holy books which are not taken literally. This content, such as in the Quaran, is not taken literally by Muslims at all. However there are those that take this too far in an orthodox manner and some do misuse this specific content which __Kratos__ shared in this thread.

I said __Kratos__ knows nothing in terms of a lack of further background knowledge on Muslims, particularly on the content he shared and disagreed with. I mean, You can not base your views on a religion from certain content which you have little awareness of and how the followers to that faith treat it. The fact is, what __Kratos__ listed is not at all acknowledged in Islamic Upbringing.. You go out, pick out a random Muslim and ask him if he or she believes that content from the Quaran, and aplies it to his or her life.. Speaking from a Muslim, I am saying it is very unlikely!!

I will set a few metaphors to express just how rediculous it is by disaproving of the islamic way to life from such content from the Quaran that is hardly taken into any consideration:

Its like picking all the c**p out of a Movie and putting it in a negative, cynical review, and people reading it and getting a bad impression about it and just dismissing the opportunity of seeing the movie and witnessing all the Good content in it.. In the end, realising how pathetic the review was, especially when discovering that the bad content from the movie in the film review was like 2% of the whole thing.

Hmm.. You go out on a Date with a girl who you do not find physically attractive.. You start to build up a *hands off* approach to this girl, and avoid asking too many questions about who she really is as a person, and trying to prevent the evening going into a deep meaningful convo about her personality.. Next day you tell her you do not want to see her anymore. But, really.. That girl had a really great personality, she is really loyal and faithful to her freind (which is a rare quality to find these days).. So .. the guy that chose not to ask too many question to get to know her better .. and being put off from the shallow content of her physical attractiveness (being rather pathetic) turned down something which could of been the best desicion he could have ever made in his life.. and appeared to be a different story than he could have ever imagined.

Perhaps my last metaphore was a little off.. But really, Watzel.. read my previous post again more thoroughly .. concentrating more on Girty1600's idea that asking more questions especially on different faiths that hold certain content which you dissaprove of is a step forward into building up a more wiser view.

[morpheas]

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[Raptor]

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son ... Then shall his father and his mother ... bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die.

-- Deuteronomy 21:18-21 (AV)

We could use some of that now

[Kismit]

Staying on topic, I agree that we need to ask questions and learn about other peoples culture. I have always felt, that everyone should live away from family and friends among another country for at least a year before they consider themselves grown up. Travel is the gratest eye opener any-one can experience.

I do have a concerne on the terrorists though, and I am deliberately not using the word Muslim because muslim's are taught to be caring and loving not hurtful and evil as the terrorists are. My concerne is; as a member recently pointed out, there appears to be a lack of condemnation from the Muslim community toward the acts of the Terrorists. And I do not wish to make any-one look bad but I feel I have seen much more of the, 'please don't label all Muslims as terrorists,' than I have seen this kind of comment

Al qaeda = not muslims...they are just masking themselfs as muslims so they can brain wash muslim people and tell them that they are doing everrthing for there religion. Also al qaeda kills muslims, i have watched news and they dont even care about there "own" muslim people...everything is just a plan to brainwash...they just want war.

750130[/snapback]

I do honestly believe that public condemnation from the peers in there own community would be beneficial in stopping both racisim as well as terrorism. Terrorism is an evil act, there is no reason and there is no honor in killing innocent people.

Edited July 26, 2005 by Kismit

[Bone_Collector]

however i wish more people would realise that muslims (except the fanatics) dont take the quran quite so literally either.

I agree morpheas, it is unfair to label all muslims as terrorists but you must agree there are QUITE a few fanatics. Unfortunately, the muslim community is at the receiving end because of these fanatics who misinterpret, twist and use religion to suit themselves. The most worrying part is that the heads of the religion are not condemning these attacks or acknowledging that there IS a problem and no concrete steps are taken to curb them. What with all the thousands and thousands of religious schools spread across in Asia spreading hatred and churning out countless brainwashed youth all the time.

If a 10 year old kid shouts "Jihad", then we DO have a problem.

[zephyr]

I've stated in numerous posts that what is said in the Quran about 'Jihad' and 'infidels' are instructions from god to his prophet. Whatever jihads there were at the time of Mohammad against the infidels were because of direct orders from god to him. There is no other authority but god that can judge the level of people's faith and decide whether they are infidel or not. Nobody can claim to represent god no matter how spiritual they might be, certainly not Osama and co.. God has reserved that judgement for himself and nobody else, for the simple reason that if men were to judge each other on their faith, there would be chaos on earth, something that the terrorists are trying to achieve today. So you can take the Quran literally, but you can not play god on earth and start blowing people apart just because you think they are infidel. God can do that himself if he sees fit, as he has done on numerous occasions throughout human history (To the attention of Islam bashing Quran quoters; there are many stories to this effect in there)! The concept is actually quite simple, however the terrorists and the Islam bashers both lack the basic understanding of this very simple concept and are in total agreement with each other about their twisted understanding of a simple text, they just find themselves on opposite sides because of their mundane beliefs and needs. And I'm getting tired of repeating this very simple fact that Islam by no means allows for the judgement of other people's faith, let alone massacring them for that. So, quoting verses about jihad and infidels is very nice, but it's even nicer if we really took that literally and realized that god is talking to his prophet and not to us, we're just to read that in order to know that god does not like infidels and might decide to punish them and has done so in the past. How hard is all this to understand? I've understood it and god himself knows that I'm neither intelligent nor religious?

Kismit; contrary to you, I've seen a lot of condemnation of these terror acts by Muslims, even here in Iran and in newspapers from the most hardline stance to the most leftist and reformist ones. I've read condemnations by the few Muslims present on these very boards including myself. In fact I have made so many comments against the thugs terrorizing the Iraqis and others that I've been PM treated by several Western Bush haters on these boards to things such as being Bush's lap dog. Furthermore and as an example, expecting Muslims in Indonisia to stop the British suicide bombers in London is very naive and not really practical at all, even more so when we see that the strongest army in the world is having great difficulties at stopping a few foreign thugs operating in Iraq today. As for really condemning attrocities, nobody heard a peep out of the west when Saddam used western chemicals to massacre 5000 Kurds in one shot. So it might be easy to blame others and expect them to condemn a horrible act when it's directed against us, but it is only fair to first do ourselves what we expect others to do.

[morpheas]

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[Dan'O]

As for really condemning attrocities, nobody heard a peep out of the west when Saddam used western chemicals to massacre  5000 Kurds in one shot. So it might be easy to blame others and expect them to condemn a horrible act when it's directed against us, but it is only fair to first do ourselves what we expect others to do.

754236[/snapback]

I remember seeing the sickening images on TV of Halabja and the vile uses on Iranian forces. I heard condemnation from many, including government sources. But believe what you want.

"Saddam used" "western chemicals". Nice touch. Saddam received legitimate chemicals under the auspices of genuine medical and agricultural work from more then western companies. He received them from India, Japan, China and Russian companies too. But why do I expect anything less from you though? Go ahead and spin the blame for what Saddam did in another direction though. It is far easier to do that then blaming the monster that actually did it....western chemicals....bah.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/01/17/iraq.chemical.suit/

http://cns.miis.edu/research/wmdme/flow/iraq/seed.htm

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/dm01/US/Iraqs-Real...pons-Threat.htm

http://expage.com/notowar6

[morpheas]

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[Dan'O]

in the US where gun possession is legal, if someone who is mentally unstable is sold a gun and kills someone with it, is there any blame placed on the person who sold it to them aswell as the person who actually carried out the shooting?

I seem to remember an article where a mentally unstable man was sold a gun in the US and he shot someone. i dont remember however if the store who sold it to him got into trouble.

754341[/snapback]

I do not know if the FBI database is connected with mental health facilities. I am sure if a mental health facility suspects potential violence they will/do report the person to law enforcement. Is a shop owner qualified to make mental health judgments on their patrons? No. If someone came in with obviously psychotic behavior I am sure the seller would not sell weapons to them. Also there are many ways to kill. You do not need a firearm. But I digress.

i dont think zephyr would ever defend saddam by trying to place the blame elsewhere, just trying to highlight perhaps that these weapons didnt appear from nowhere and those who sold them to him, perhaps should have known better about saddams ideologies and his uses for such materials.

754341[/snapback]

"these weapons" did not start out as such and were not sold to Iraq in weapon form. They were researched and created in Iraq from legitimate chemicals by order of Saddam and his sick henchmen. I am going to politely disagree on zephyr's intentions. Whether zephyr's consciously threw in the "western" factor or not is irrelevant. The fact is he did and shows either an ignorance of widely known facts or a clear animosity towards the west.

[zephyr]

The fact is he did and shows either an ignorance of widely known facts or a clear animosity towards the west.

I could agree with you on the ignorance part, but please don't start with that animosity stuff, please!

The west was thrown in there consciously because it is a fact of history that many western as well as eastern and Arab countries gave the lunatic financial, political and technological means to build a chemical arsenal; to be used against the Iranians and the Kurds of course and possibly the Iraqi Shiits. All this was being done when the lunatic had already a very impressive record in human slaughter. There are cases in Iranian courts against certain German companies that sold Saddam the very chemicals that were used against civilians in Sardasht, Iran in 1986; ever heard of the place Dan? Even the technology to produce mustard gas was sold to him. These must be on the record deep in some bunker somewhere. I would not call those sales 'legitimate', and I think that's where you and I disagree.